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Corlose 15
05-14-2004, 12:24 PM
Twins or Cubs? I hate the Cubs as much as anybody but the last couple of years I've really started to hate the Twinkies. I think its the fact that these guys come out of nowhere and start hitting (Lew Ford anyone?) Thoughts?

bartmanisgod
05-14-2004, 12:25 PM
Twins...Cubs only affect our season by giving us 4-5 wins each year!

npdempse
05-14-2004, 12:26 PM
Twins, but they're less hard to hate without Pierzynski. I do hate Torii though. Hate. Hope he gets drilled frequently. With Malice.

gosox3072
05-14-2004, 12:28 PM
I hate the Cubs more! At least we dont have to listen to cocky twins fans say there is no one that will stop them from winning the world series.

WWIII
05-14-2004, 12:28 PM
I hate the Twins and Cub fans (the partygoers and Soxbashers, not the actual fans of their own team and the sport). But the Twins just never seem to go away. Last year it seemed like we would go on a multiple game win streak only to find that Minny was doing the same thing, and we just could not pull away. That irritated me.

Palehose13
05-14-2004, 12:29 PM
I hated the cubs longer because they and their fans are alwys around. The division rival usually changes...Oakland, Cleveland, and now Minnesota.

Sad
05-14-2004, 12:39 PM
that's easy...


Minnesota :angry:

TDog
05-14-2004, 12:43 PM
I hate the Twins. I still hate the Indians and Royals. And the Tigers, though not as much as I used to. There's the A's and Yankees and a few other teams I hate.

I probably hate the Cubs more only in the respect that I have to put up with Cubs crap even when they're losing.

Bobby Thigpen
05-14-2004, 12:51 PM
Cubs, easily. I don't have to put up with any obnoxious Twins fans.

HITMEN OF 77
05-14-2004, 12:51 PM
The Twins by far. I didn't hear anyone this year at Soxfest make some prediction on how we will kick the Twins butt this year. Did I miss that part of the show?

fhqwhgads
05-14-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Corlose 15
Twins or Cubs?

Cubs. :D:

Foulke You
05-14-2004, 12:57 PM
This is tough. I'd say I hate both the Cubs and Twins pretty much equally.

The Twins have had this cocky streak with this faux "Man, everyone is so against us and we don't get any respect blah blah blah" when that couldn't be further from the truth. Most national media outlets pick the Twins to win the division and ESPN is in love with that team. That chip on their shoulder is something they fabricate themselves in order to get themselves psyched up to play. Well that's fine but they use the media to trade barbs with anyone who will listen about their perceived "lack of respect" and it has gotten very old. I just heard Twins radio analyst Dan Gladden on ESPN 1000 this morning reciting the same "we get no respect" crap. Torii Hunter and Doug Mienkeicksjcksfjlsjksdz are two of the most cocky loudmouth SOBs to come around in a while. Whenever I feel my hatred of Torii waning a tad, I just remember that game in 2002 at the Metrodome I believe, where he hit that grand slam to put the Twins ahead and when he rounded 3rd base he was pointing and hurling profanity into the Sox dugout. I wanted to fly out to Minnesota and beat him down myself. Special kudos to Bob Howry for beaning Hunter in the back the very next game. Two words that describe Mr. Hunter's attitude: BUSCH LEAGUE.

The Cubs, well, the reasons to hate them have been beaten to death on this board. I will say that I hate their fans and the local and national media coverage of that team more than any genuine ill will towards their players except Sammy Sosa who all Sox fans reserve the right to hate.

So I guess, the answer is that I hate both teams equally but in different ways. Honorable mention goes to the NY Yankees coming in a close second in vying for Foulke You's hatred. :D:

davenicholson
05-14-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Corlose 15
Twins or Cubs? I hate the Cubs as much as anybody but the last couple of years I've really started to hate the Twinkies. I think its the fact that these guys come out of nowhere and start hitting (Lew Ford anyone?) Thoughts?
Cubs. I can't seem to work up a good hate for the Twins, largely because of what I mentioned on a similar thread a few weeks ago. They are a (true) small-market team that always seems to find a way to win, even after losing great players to their many major league affiliates. Not much hatred, but jealousy, perhaps...

Now, the Packers, Yankees, Red Wings and Blues on the other hand... :D:

Hangar18
05-14-2004, 01:06 PM
This is Easy. I hate the team that Threatens Our Very Existence. The Cubs. Our Owner, who very un-businessman like, has ignored them as a potential "problem" for years.
Kind of like COKE not worrying about PEPSI.

I hate the team that has the Dumbest Fans Ive ever met (and I do travel a bit), yet somehow are praised as being the opposite (because of the medias erroneous assumption that Attendance = Intelligence)
I HATE the Cubs Organization (for running out the last commissioner, litigating the rooftop owners, cry poor every year for new concessions) the Cubs Players (because they are all assembled "all-stars" from other teams) and mostly, I HATE their "Fans" for being some of the stupidest people Ive ever ever met in sport (save 2% who are knowledgable)

bigdommer
05-14-2004, 01:10 PM
I hate them both, but I think I hate the Twins more because we compete against them. At the same time, when we are done compteting against them, I respect the Twins as an organization. But I still want them to lose.

markp8867
05-14-2004, 01:20 PM
Good question.

First of all, both teams cheat. The Cubs with steroids and corked bats and the Twinkies with changing the wind direction in the Metrodome to blow out when their team is at bat and then reversing it to blow in when the opposing team is at bat. The Twins cheating has won them two world titles in the last 17 years whereas the Cubs cheating really hasn't done anything for them except fatten Sammy Sosa's wallet.

Secondly, both teams have very lame fans. The Cubs fans are the lamest in baseball. Their better-than-thou attitude just really irks me. They are just like the Yankees fans except with 24 fewer world titles. Also, I don't know any Cubs fan who was even alive during the Cubs last win in 1908 which sadly includes my Grandma who was born in 1910. As for the Twins fans, they are not that bad but that waving a hanky around just seems really gay to me.

Lastly, Minneapolis is a nice city and much nicer than Wrigleyville. Sure the Metrodome is a lousy place to see a game but Wrigley Field really isn't that much better. Plus in Minneapolis you don't have to worry about being killed just for crossing the street. In fact you never even have to go outside as their city is connected by skyways. Can't say that for Wrigleyville!

So I will have to say I hate the Cubs more than the Twins. This will be an interesting series which the Sox need to win. I hope the fans come out because the weather is supposed to be nice. Anything less than 25,000 today or 30,000+ over the weekend will be disappointing. As much as I love to hate the Twins and the Cubs and want them to fail, that all pales in comparison as to how much I love the White Sox and want them to win!

GO SOX!

white sox bill
05-14-2004, 01:21 PM
da flubss,
Hanger, why do you feel they ran the last comm. out of baseball? Just curious

bennyw41
05-14-2004, 01:23 PM
I hate the Cubs more. The argument that we only deal with them 4-5 times a year is a naive look at Chicago. We deal with them everyday, and they f'n suck.

Jerko
05-14-2004, 01:25 PM
It was a tie for me until I saw that the Tribune today interviewed Carrie Wood's tricep.

Hangar18
05-14-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by white sox bill
da flubss,
Hanger, why do you feel they ran the last comm. out of baseball? Just curious

Baseball was about to expand into Florida and Colorado. Fay Vincent had long wanted to answer Cincinnati and Atlantas complaints of being in the Western div despite being in the Eastern Time Zone. This was causing the Reds & Braves to also lose out on Prime-Time-Advertising Rates (7pm to 10pm considered prime-time in advertising world)

Vincent was going to align the divisions CORRECTLY, with the Braves/Reds going to EAST div, and Cubs going to WEST division.
CUbs of course, realizing the Gravy-Train/Division Quirk theyd taken advantage of, was now up, and they'd have to own up.
Well, they immediately said they were "Gonna lose our fan-base if we play more west coast games", which was absurd. Do sox fans STOP being sox fans when We Play the A's/Angels/Mariners? Of course not. Cub fans, not known for their intelligence, Immediately Regurgitated these facts.
Vincent told them He didnt care what thier complaints were, that it was for the GOOD of the National League. CUbs Whined and said "important and long standing rivalry" with the Mets would seroiusly damage Cubs organization (despite fact that mets/cubs were "rivals" only since 1962). Again, cub fans regurgitated this too. Vincent said fine, complain, but I'll use my Best Interests Clause, and in the End........the Sweet HAMMER OF JUSTICE, Fell on the cubs, and I was happy, VERY HAPPY, that a selfish teams self-interests were put aside for the good of the league.

It was short lived.

Cubs sued and got an injunction. The Cubs claimed the Commissioner was "abusing his power" and moved to have him outsted, which Vincent Fought Vehemently. Wasnt til Jerry Reinsdorf got involved (siding w Cubs) and seeing a perfect opportunity to Remove the only guy that would get Between the Players Union and Owners in the STRIKE that was about to come.
We still have no commissioner, much to the pleasure of the Cubs, whove been able to wrangle one-sided trades, Mark Prior,
and a host of other non-sensical and Unfair benefits/practices since then.

Just one of the reasons why I HATE THIS TEAM FOREVER and anyone wearing their junk.

ma-gaga
05-14-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
where he hit that grand slam to put the Twins ahead and when he rounded 3rd base he was pointing and hurling profanity into the Sox dugout.

The view from the otherside: Torii was also quoted as "hearing a lot of talk from the visitors clubhouse" that day. Up until that inning, up until that homer. There were apparently multiple offenders.

I remember that game. Torii was yelling all the way around the bases and emphatically screamed out "and f*** you!" as he stomped on home plate. I wasn't sure who he was talking to, but it turns out that there was a lot of smack being talked from both sides that day.

Yeah, Torii's a little baby sometimes. But he can play a mean centerfield.

SSN721
05-14-2004, 01:53 PM
I know that it is more like passing the torch with central teams, and not so long ago AL west teams for the most hated team and rival. But I cant comprehend how the hatred of the Cubs can overshadow our main rivals, these are the teams we have to play the most and dominate to take this division. I loathe the Cubs as much as any Sox fan, but I loathe any team more that stands in the way of the Division and League, once we play the Cubs in the series then maybe they can acheive that plateau. I cant say I hat them as much as I now hate the Twins (although repect the organization as they are so good at producing quality players), and I did hate Oakland and the Indians. I guess it is just my own feeling that I find it hard to hate any National League Team more than an American League team or a central division team. So Twins for me, hands down. Hate 'em.

the_valenstache
05-14-2004, 02:07 PM
Cubs.

The Twins are obviously the team to be worried about for immediate concerns.

However, I don't think I've met a Minnesota fan that doesn't live in Minnesota.

Come to Iowa City. Meet Cubs fans that are impossibly more ignorant than any true North Sider.

Myself, a lifelong native of the south suburbs, must hear the anti-Sox sentiments of frat boys from Maquokestetskwata Iowa.

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by davenicholson
Cubs. I can't seem to work up a good hate for the Twins, largely because of what I mentioned on a similar thread a few weeks ago. They are a (true) small-market team that always seems to find a way to win, even after losing great players to their many major league affiliates. Not much hatred, but jealousy, perhaps...

Now, the Packers, Yankees, Red Wings and Blues on the other hand... :D:

Gotta agree with Dave on this one.

I am jealous of the Twins' success. Two World Series wins in the last 20 years on small budgets, and a boatload of division titles. I don't live in Chicago anymore so I don't hear much about the Twins or come into contact with their fans, so they really don't bother me.

I loathe the Cubs. They represent all that is bad with baseball. I agree with Hangar that they threaten the very existence of the White Sox. The majority of their fans (those who aren't long-time Cubs fans and who aren't baseball fans) generally are obnoxious. I hate to say it, but in many ways the "Lovable Losers" have become "America's Team."

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
CUbs Whined and said "important and long standing rivalry" with the Mets would seroiusly damage Cubs organization (despite fact that mets/cubs were "rivals" only since 1962). Again, cub fans regurgitated this too.

This argument was so disingenuous because that was the time when the schedules were "balanced." That is, teams played almost as many games against opponents from the other division as they did from opponents within their division.

IIRC, the Cubs used the exact OPPOSITE argument when they opposed the proposal for radical re-alignment in which the Cubs and Sox would be put into the same division. (If they were so concerned about West Coast games, under such a proposal they would play even fewer West Coast games because they would play many more games within the Midwest -- Sox, Detroit, Milwaukee, Minnesota, etc.) IIRC, the Cubs didn't want to play that many games against the Sox because they might actually be exposed as the losers that they were and therefore lose the "battle" for the hearts and minds of undecided Chicagoans.

Hangar18
05-14-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
This argument was so disingenuous because that was the time when the schedules were "balanced." That is, teams played almost as many games against opponents from the other division as they did from opponents within their division.



This is ALMOST right. The National League was using the Un-Balanced schedule up to that point, while the AL was using the Balanced Schedule. I remember as a kid wondering why the heck the Cubs were always playing Pittsburgh and StLouis all the time, while we played everone more evenly. One way or the other, with re-alignment, the cubs Privately feared playing the Dodgers and Padres more, because some $$$$$ would be lost, not much, but to a GIANT CORPORATION, why leave Money on the Table when you dont need to. The Cubs truly represent everything thats WRONG with baseball, The Wolf-hiding-in-sheeps-clothing. The Goliath erroneously billing itself as David (which cub fans, not being the most intelligent, regurgitate as fact)

IlliniSox
05-14-2004, 02:27 PM
I too am jealous of the Twins-how do they keep winning. They know and we know that the Sox on paper should bash their brains in year in and year out. But they win, that's the major reason we don't like them.

The Cubs on the other hand, I get more pissed when Sosa comes on the screen than Bin Laden. They are no longer a Chicago team. And I feel proud as a Chicagoan to still be rooting for the underdog.

p.s. Mac=huge flub fan.

bafiarocks03
05-14-2004, 04:30 PM
Thats an easy one! THE TWINKIES! i mean yes i hate the cubs too! But we don't play the cubs 19 times or whatever it is!

Brian26
05-14-2004, 04:32 PM
The Cubs. Not even close.

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
This is ALMOST right. The National League was using the Un-Balanced schedule up to that point, while the AL was using the Balanced Schedule. I remember as a kid wondering why the heck the Cubs were always playing Pittsburgh and StLouis all the time, while we played everone more evenly. One way or the other, with re-alignment, the cubs Privately feared playing the Dodgers and Padres more, because some $$$$$ would be lost, not much, but to a GIANT CORPORATION, why leave Money on the Table when you dont need to. The Cubs truly represent everything thats WRONG with baseball, The Wolf-hiding-in-sheeps-clothing. The Goliath erroneously billing itself as David (which cub fans, not being the most intelligent, regurgitate as fact)

Thanks for the clarification, Hangar. It still doesn't change your point or mine, except to point even more clearly to the bottom line as being cold, hard cash.

Deadguy
05-14-2004, 04:45 PM
The Twins, definitely, although their fan base isn't nearly as obnoxious as the Indians or Kittens fan bases. I've rarely come across an obnoxious Twins fan, IRL or over the internet.

Back in the mid 90's, I don't think my hatred for any team in any other sport paralleled my hatred for the Indians and their fans.

I have no feelings about the Cubs, really. I have a lot of friends who are Cubs fans and my dad is a Cubs fan, so I don't exactly get joy out of seeing them suffer, and I feel happy for them when things go well for their favorite team.

blackjack29
05-14-2004, 04:58 PM
Cubs, closely followed by the Red Sox. I couldn't be happier if both fan bases dissapeared forever.

Foulke You
05-14-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Back in the mid 90's, I don't think my hatred for any team in any other sport paralleled my hatred for the Indians and their fans.


Good one deadguy. For sure, the Indians in the 90's used to get my blood boiling. Especially when all the annoying Indians fans would come to Comiskey. Recently though, that hatred has waned with the decline of the Tribe. I'm sure as soon as they contend again, it will be renewed.

Foulke You
05-14-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
The view from the otherside: Torii was also quoted as "hearing a lot of talk from the visitors clubhouse" that day.

I remember reading that quote from Torii after that game and it seemed to me like a copout to explain his immature showboating/profanity tirade on the field. I also remember reading quotes from Sox players wondering what the reasoning behind that display was for. If I find them again, I'll try to post them here.

Originally posted by ma-gaga

Yeah, Torii's a little baby sometimes. But he can play a mean centerfield.

I won't dispute that. He is a great ballplayer. Breaks my heart out there in CF every year against us. However, as far as his attitude goes, I can't stand the guy.

hose
05-15-2004, 12:21 AM
TWINS

The cubs are just another national league team that I don't pay much attention to.

Railsplitter
05-15-2004, 09:05 AM
The Cubs. The folks from the land of 10,000 lakes will be up and down, but the Cubs will be a constant fact of life for Sox fans.

Still, perjaps I should put this message tag up whenever we play Minny:

:notwinks

white sox bill
05-15-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Baseball was about to expand into Florida and Colorado. Fay Vincent had long wanted to answer Cincinnati and Atlantas complaints of being in the Western div despite being in the Eastern Time Zone. This was causing the Reds & Braves to also lose out on Prime-Time-Advertising Rates (7pm to 10pm considered prime-time in advertising world)

Vincent was going to align the divisions CORRECTLY, with the Braves/Reds going to EAST div, and Cubs going to WEST division.
CUbs of course, realizing the Gravy-Train/Division Quirk theyd taken advantage of, was now up, and they'd have to own up.
Well, they immediately said they were "Gonna lose our fan-base if we play more west coast games", which was absurd. Do sox fans STOP being sox fans when We Play the A's/Angels/Mariners? Of course not. Cub fans, not known for their intelligence, Immediately Regurgitated these facts.
Vincent told them He didnt care what thier complaints were, that it was for the GOOD of the National League. CUbs Whined and said "important and long standing rivalry" with the Mets would seroiusly damage Cubs organization (despite fact that mets/cubs were "rivals" only since 1962). Again, cub fans regurgitated this too. Vincent said fine, complain, but I'll use my Best Interests Clause, and in the End........the Sweet HAMMER OF JUSTICE, Fell on the cubs, and I was happy, VERY HAPPY, that a selfish teams self-interests were put aside for the good of the league.

It was short lived.

Cubs sued and got an injunction. The Cubs claimed the Commissioner was "abusing his power" and moved to have him outsted, which Vincent Fought Vehemently. Wasnt til Jerry Reinsdorf got involved (siding w Cubs) and seeing a perfect opportunity to Remove the only guy that would get Between the Players Union and Owners in the STRIKE that was about to come.
We still have no commissioner, much to the pleasure of the Cubs, whove been able to wrangle one-sided trades, Mark Prior,
and a host of other non-sensical and Unfair benefits/practices since then.

Just one of the reasons why I HATE THIS TEAM FOREVER and anyone wearing their junk.

Hangar,
What do you call Bud Selig then? Don't get me wrong, I love your anti-scrub views, but I'm arming myself with ammunition here, playing the Devil's Advocate, trying to counter any possible comebacks from the few and far between smart flub fans who may beg to differ. Was Vincent going to side w/owners or players? And isn;t the point moote now that we have 3 divisions? (Probably thanks to used car Bud) Keep up the good work!!
Bill

vegyrex
05-15-2004, 11:59 AM
I can respect the Twins

No way I can respect the Flubbies.

The Twins can claim two WS victories in 17 years. The Sox and Flubs can not. But listening to flub fans you'd think they were repeat champions. Never has a team gotten so much for doing so little.
How can I not hate the Cubs? :angry:

jamteh
05-15-2004, 12:15 PM
Put me down for the Twins. I'm absolutely sick of seeing them beat us in the late innings. I know it's early in the season, but it's never too early to show them that we can and will beat them. As much as Aaron Rowand gets flak on this board, it was nice to see him hustling like that in the 9th inning to get to first. I don't think the Twins beat us in terms of talent; it's because they do the little things and they always play hard.

Hopefully, tonight will be different. I hate Twinkies!

TaylorStSox
05-15-2004, 02:31 PM
I can't believe people are actually saying the Cubs. Wow. Who cares about Cubs fans? Fans of all other teams suck.


I'm not bombarded with crap about the Cubs. The reason is because people know that I don't care. I'm a Sox fan, not a Cub hater. All of these conspiracy theories are embarrasing for Sox fans like me. The Cubs don't threaten our existance. Jesus. There's plenty of room for 2 teams in the Chicago Metro area. You guys bring this crap upon yourselves.

In fact, 99% of random Cubs fans that approach me say this, "Wouldn't it be awesome if the Cubs played the Sox in the Series?" I always reply, "I just want to see the Sox there. I really don't care who they play."

The Twins not only beat us, they spit in our faces. They're dirty. They throw at our batters. They speak to the press.

I'm an Illinois fan too. Does that mean I should hate Depaul?

Voice of Reason
05-15-2004, 02:40 PM
Good job getting the Cubs back into the Sox Clubhouse.