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bigdommer
05-13-2004, 10:20 AM
Don't think it would ever happen, but Paul Ladewski doesn't want to put anything past KW.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/ladewski/x13-lad1.htm

DaveIsHere
05-13-2004, 10:28 AM
Yeah K-dub is not afraid of making the move and he des, I hate the fact that he gets called out for some trades, he cannot help it if people don;t perform as expected, he definetly gives it his all with the little he has.

IlliniSox
05-13-2004, 10:28 AM
I can't disagree with anything there. A frontliner of a left for possibly two postseasons vs. Maggs for the rest of this year. A run a Beltran then wouldn't be that huge a payroll boost for next year. And as it looks right now, Loaiza won't be commanding a 21 game winners' ransom for us to bring him back.

Dadawg_77
05-13-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by bigdommer
Don't think it would ever happen, but Paul Ladewski doesn't want to put anything past KW.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/ladewski/x13-lad1.htm

hmm..... put this together and then go get Beltran, and I will call Kenny a good GM. I would like Hudson rather then Mulder though.

jabrch
05-13-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
hmm..... put this together and then go get Beltran, and I will call Kenny a good GM. I would like Hudson rather then Mulder though.

Hud is a FA after this year, Mulder is signed for one more. Given that, I'd rather have Mulder. He's also a lefty - but we do have 2 other lefty starters.

Dadawg_77
05-13-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Hud is a FA after this year, Mulder is signed for one more. Given that, I'd rather have Mulder. He's also a lefty - but we do have 2 other lefty starters.

Hudson is a better pitcher.

rahulsekhar
05-13-2004, 10:38 AM
It's hard for me to imagine Maggs in another uni, but if the choice is Maggs+Borchard+Rauch or Mulder+Beltran? No brainer.

Maggs + cash for Mulder
Borchard+Rauch for Beltran+cash (netting out Maggs' cash)

Let Koch(VC edit: please don't type his name that way it is no different than any other attempt to get around the language filters), Valentin go in the offseason ($11mil savings) & resign Beltran for $16/yr (net decrease in payroll since I don't think Mulder makes anythign close to Maggs $14Mil).

Sign Loaiza for $5mil/yr.

Assuming like $5mil in salary increases for the rest of the team, we end up subtracting $25mil (Maggs 14, Koch 6, Val 5) and adding 30-32mil (Beltran 16, Loaiza 5, team 5, Mulder 4-6).

If attendance improves and we make the playoffs (extra revenues), a net 5-7mil increase in payroll should be doable.

pjthesox13
05-13-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by bigdommer
Don't think it would ever happen, but Paul Ladewski doesn't want to put anything past KW.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/ladewski/x13-lad1.htm

It would be a shame to see Maggs leave but heck if we could pull in a solid starter like Mulder or Hudson that would be great but I don't know if the A's would want to move any of those guys.

jabrch
05-13-2004, 10:40 AM
Do this - then call Reed up to play OF - Not a bad move...

Loaiza
Mulder
Buehrle
Garland
Schoen


That's respectable!

Harris
Reed
Thomas
Lee
PK
Uribe
Manos
Crede
Olivo

A bit weak without Magglio, but not bad! Trading a few prospects not names Reed of Honel for Beltran would be sweet.

The Big Squirt
05-13-2004, 10:41 AM
I would give up Reed or Honel for Beltran ONLY IF we could sign him to a long term deal...I would give Beltran that 5th year that the Sox are sticking on with Maggs

DaveIsHere
05-13-2004, 10:44 AM
I have a feeling that we would not be able to get Beltran from KC, I don't think that KC would give him to us, plus I think Beltran has heard all the playing for the yanks talk as they throw money at everyone

rahulsekhar
05-13-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by DaveIsHere
I have a feeling that we would not be able to get Beltran from KC, I don't think that KC would give him to us, plus I think Beltran has heard all the playing for the yanks talk as they throw money at everyone

KC will take the best available package, and figure that whoever trades for him, he'll go to the Yanks (i.e. they won't worry about in-division trades). The key to this is the Sox being willing to offer him close to Spankee $$$ to resign him. Yanks can't come close to the prospects the Sox have to offer, even if we hold back Reed, Sweeney, Honel, Diaz.

After that, it's up to the team & Ozzie & Sox fans to make Carlos feel so comfortable and that the fans come out to pack the park so well, that there's little to no upside to going to NY, and the downside of dealing with Steinbrenner & the NY media anytime he slumps (ask ARod about that the first few weeks of the season).

A team with Mulder, Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland, Garland/Diaz/Cotts and a lineup of Harris, Reed, Beltran, Thomas, Lee, Konerko, Crede, Uribe, Olivo is a WS contender and one made for the long haul.

Mickster
05-13-2004, 10:50 AM
Do it ONLY if we have a LEGITIMATE shot at Beltran.

mantis1212
05-13-2004, 10:51 AM
I think this whole thread should be in deeppink

Why would Oakland ever trade Mulder when they have him signed for so cheap through next year? It's doesn't make any sense.
I think getting Mulder would be awesome, especially since he's a south sider. But they have no reason to think they could sign Maggs at the end of the year either.

CHISOXFAN13
05-13-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
It's hard for me to imagine Maggs in another uni, but if the choice is Maggs+Borchard+Rauch or Mulder+Beltran? No brainer.

Maggs + cash for Mulder
Borchard+Rauch for Beltran+cash (netting out Maggs' cash)

Let Koch(VC edit: please don't type his name that way it is no different than any other attempt to get around the language filters), Valentin go in the offseason ($11mil savings) & resign Beltran for $16/yr (net decrease in payroll since I don't think Mulder makes anythign close to Maggs $14Mil).

Sign Loaiza for $5mil/yr.

Assuming like $5mil in salary increases for the rest of the team, we end up subtracting $25mil (Maggs 14, Koch 6, Val 5) and adding 30-32mil (Beltran 16, Loaiza 5, team 5, Mulder 4-6).

If attendance improves and we make the playoffs (extra revenues), a net 5-7mil increase in payroll should be doable.

Tell me you really don't think a package of Borchard and Rauch is good enough to get Beltran. And then you expect them to pay some of his salary.

WOW!

lowesox
05-13-2004, 11:02 AM
I love the idea. I doubt that Oakland would go for it though. He also brings us a very good point about our rotation. We'll need to upgrade the front end, not the back end.

onenine19
05-13-2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by jabrch

Harris
Reed
Thomas
Lee
PK
Uribe
Manos
Crede
Olivo

A bit weak without Magglio, but not bad! Trading a few prospects not names Reed of Honel for Beltran would be sweet.

A bit weak? This lineup looks really weak without Mags. If you trade Mags you better get another bat that is as consistent as his.

habibharu
05-13-2004, 11:07 AM
i would do that trade in a heartbeat. i love mark mulder!

habibharu
05-13-2004, 11:09 AM
he's probably my fav. non sox player

rahulsekhar
05-13-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Tell me you really don't think a package of Borchard and Rauch is good enough to get Beltran. And then you expect them to pay some of his salary.

WOW!

The question is who's going to offer something better. Rauch has pitched fairly well, and per many on this board was worthy of a callup. Borchard, while struggling a bit, is till a fairly decent prospect given his lack of fulltime baseball experience prior to being drafted. That said, I'd trade a couple of prospects as long as their not named Diaz, Honel, Reed, Sweeney.

The cash is a negotiable item, but given the history of trading high salaried guys at midseason, if you want prospects, you have to eat cash. Otherwise you get fairly low-level ones since the team has to take on the salary(think Adkins for Durham).

Who from the teams that have a need for Beltran can offer up better prospects and is willing to take the risk that they rent him for 3 months and then he goes to NY? Yanks dont' have the prospects to come close to a Sox offer.

batmanZoSo
05-13-2004, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Hudson is a better pitcher.

Mulder leads the AL in wins the last three years. I know he has more than Hudson. In addition, Hudson's a little guy who throws hard breaking stuff, he's a Tommy John waiting to happen. I think Mulder will hold up.

habibharu
05-13-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
That said, I'd trade a couple of prospects as long as their not named Diaz, Honel, Reed, Sweeney. dont forget about anderson!

beckett21
05-13-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Mulder leads the AL in wins the last three years. I know he has more than Hudson. In addition, Hudson's a little guy who throws hard breaking stuff, he's a Tommy John waiting to happen. I think Mulder will hold up.

I agree with you.

If I could choose any of the big 3 in Oakland, it would be Mulder. I don't think we will be getting any of them, however.

rahulsekhar
05-13-2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
dont forget about anderson!

I think I'd be willing to give him up, maybe even Sweeney but that's iffy. If we had Beltran for a while, I think Anderson's expendable and our corner OFs are a choice between Lee (if he's still around), Reed, Sweeney.

hawkeyesrule
05-13-2004, 12:54 PM
I'd like to know what some of you guys have been smoking! I normally like Ladewski's columns, but this one makes no sense. Was his assignment to make up something plausible that he could write a column on? Why in the world would Oakland do this deal? They are way short on cash. They would essentially be renting Maggs for the rest of the year. Yes, they need a hitter, but the man behind the green curtain out west is going to try and find a bargain bin solution.

My ideal solution to the pitching issue is to re-sign Maggs for 5 years for the price he wants. The guy has never been hurt, and we all know about his production. We then give up a prospect and some magic beans to Pittsburgh for Kris Benson and see how he turns out.

As for the idea of letting Koch go, he is signed through next year, I believe. No one is going to take him off our hands without us paying a big piece of that $6 mil.

mdep524
05-13-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
It's hard for me to imagine Maggs in another uni, but if the choice is Maggs+Borchard+Rauch or Mulder+Beltran? No brainer.

Maggs + cash for Mulder
Borchard+Rauch for Beltran+cash (netting out Maggs' cash)

Let Koch(VC edit: please don't type his name that way it is no different than any other attempt to get around the language filters), Valentin go in the offseason ($11mil savings) & resign Beltran for $16/yr (net decrease in payroll since I don't think Mulder makes anythign close to Maggs $14Mil).

Sign Loaiza for $5mil/yr.

Assuming like $5mil in salary increases for the rest of the team, we end up subtracting $25mil (Maggs 14, Koch 6, Val 5) and adding 30-32mil (Beltran 16, Loaiza 5, team 5, Mulder 4-6).

If attendance improves and we make the playoffs (extra revenues), a net 5-7mil increase in payroll should be doable.

I like the sound of this a lot. We'd probably have to give up a little moer to get Beltran from KC though. I'd do it though, as long as the Sox will not skimp on resigning Beltran as a FA.

joecrede
05-13-2004, 02:17 PM
If this deal were to be made, I'd get Everrett back to replace Maggs not Beltran.

Dadawg_77
05-13-2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
If this deal were to be made, I'd get Everrett back to replace Maggs not Beltran.

Would cost less, but any reason else?

joecrede
05-13-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Would cost less, but any reason else?

Cost player wise. I don't want to give up a top prospect to get Beltran and have him leave.

They'd be sitting nice for '05 with Reed, Mulder, and Everrett for approximately $4M less than Ordonez and with Anderson taking over for Everrett in '06, Reed moving to right.

OEO Magglio
05-13-2004, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by onenine19
A bit weak? This lineup looks really weak without Mags. If you trade Mags you better get another bat that is as consistent as his.
First off this thread should definitely be in deeppink because none of this will ever happen. And who cares what the sox lineup looks like it's what they produce, the last two years this lineup has looked great on paper and been so inconsistant.

RedPinStripes
05-13-2004, 03:47 PM
I would do that trade. The question is.......Does Oakland realy want to jack up their salary and lose one of the best pitchers in the game?

Win1ForMe
05-13-2004, 03:56 PM
This trade is even worth considering until the offense shows improvement. We're trading away our best hitter so guys like Konerko and Lee can carry the offense? I think I'll pass.

If you can get Beltran it's a different story, but that scenario is way too complicated to even consider.

bigdommer
05-13-2004, 06:39 PM
I think every decision that the Sox make depends on where they are around the all-star break. If they are more than a couple of games out, I predict a firesale.

jcirish85
05-13-2004, 06:50 PM
First of all, if the sox can do this deal, they better do it in a heartbeat. why not trade for one of the best pitchers in the big leagues? They are giving up Maggs, but they have reed ready to take his place. then they could offer KC prospects for Beltran. it doesnt matter which ones, be it reed, borchard, whoever. Beltran is probably the best player in the bigs right now and prospects are just prospects. None of the Sox prospects will ever be as good as Beltran is now. all this should be in deep pink, but i dont know how to put it in that.

A. Cavatica
05-13-2004, 08:17 PM
There's no way Oakland trades Mulder for Magglio straight up. Mulder's younger, cheaper, signed for an extra year, and a starting pitcher. That makes him more valuable than Maggs on four counts.

We would have to eat a ton of salary and throw in a Honel-type pitcher to balance this out. No way.