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View Full Version : Is it time to put Willie Harris in CF?


Malgar 12
05-12-2004, 12:38 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm still a wille doubter, but my stance has softened, because today he actually hit a ball hard. He has a way to go, but if he continues to develop into a major leage caliber player, it seems like CF for Willie and 2B for Uribe would be a good idea.

any thoughts?

nodiggity59
05-12-2004, 12:39 PM
I'm ready to start trying it short term, definitely.

jabrch
05-12-2004, 12:42 PM
I think so. Rowand has had 6 weeks to try to take and earn the job. he hasn't. Willie has.

Randar68
05-12-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Malgar 12
Don't get me wrong, I'm still a wille doubter, but my stance has softened, because today he actually hit a ball hard. He has a way to go, but if he continues to develop into a major leage caliber player, it seems like CF for Willie and 2B for Uribe would be a good idea.

any thoughts?

Whatever it takes to keep both Uribe and Harris in the line-up. If Jose and Rowan/Timo have to alternate sitting, then so be it. However, IMO, Uribe is a better SS than a 2B-man...

Randar68
05-12-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
I think so. Rowand has had 6 weeks to try to take and earn the job. he hasn't. Willie has.

well, he was handed the job and still couldn't keep Timo Perez on the freaking bench...

pjthesox13
05-12-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Whatever it takes to keep both Uribe and Harris in the line-up. If Jose and Rowan/Timo have to alternate sitting, then so be it. However, IMO, Uribe is a better SS than a 2B-man...

I totally agree. Hasn't Willie played CF before? Uribe being in the lineup is what needs to stay, but I would like to see him stay at the top of the lineup rather than in the 7th spot like last night. He has the ability to get on base but definetly needs to be in front of guys that can get him in.

illiniwhitesox
05-12-2004, 01:14 PM
I know he has the speed to play the position.

Two questions regarding when he played CF in the past:
1) Did he get a good jump on the ball? Sometimes this is more important than speed.
2) What was his arm like in the OF.

HURT35
05-12-2004, 01:21 PM
Why dont the Sox try something new like leave guys in the positions for which they are best suited. Uribe's a shortstop, Harris is a second baseman. Leave them there. Hell Valentin played center field for awhile too, no one wants to put him back there because its not his natural position and he couldnt play it well. Why do we want to put Harris there when it would be a mistake for the same two reasons? Harris is a work in progress, and has shown some good things defensively as well. Let him play there, improve and we may come out of this season with a secondbaseman that can be there (cheaply) for a few seasons. Maybe that wont happen but it surely cant happen if he plays two positions. Just because Manuel's still on the payroll lets not use his ideas...

Randar68
05-12-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by illiniwhitesox
I know he has the speed to play the position.

Two questions regarding when he played CF in the past:
1) Did he get a good jump on the ball? Sometimes this is more important than speed.
2) What was his arm like in the OF.

Willie's arm strength isn't as good as Rowand, but he does the footwork and hits his cut-offs and has a more accurate arm.

Yes, he get's good jumps, but even so, he has the speed to make up for not taking a perfect route or getting the right read as quickly as others. A guy like Rowand doesn't have those luxuries...

Hangar18
05-12-2004, 01:24 PM
Good point about his arm. wont do us any good if his arms bad, would be One-Dog all over again out there with Every Runner going 1st to 3rd on him.

35th & Shields
05-12-2004, 02:06 PM
Having Willie available as a back-up in CF is a nice luxury to have. However, I think changing the entire line-up of a first place team is a little too risky.

If Rowand doesn't start hitting then let Perez play. This puts another lefthanded bat into the line-up. Rowand is probably a fourth outfielder on a good team anyway.

If Uribe keeps swinging the bat...he'll get playing time somewhere. Also, regarding CF don't forget that Jeremy Reed is playing well at Charlotte and could be called up.

depy48
05-12-2004, 02:11 PM
i've been qouted before as saying that i want willie in center

fquaye149
05-12-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by HURT35
Why dont the Sox try something new like leave guys in the positions for which they are best suited. Uribe's a shortstop, Harris is a second baseman. Leave them there. Hell Valentin played center field for awhile too, no one wants to put him back there because its not his natural position and he couldnt play it well. Why do we want to put Harris there when it would be a mistake for the same two reasons? Harris is a work in progress, and has shown some good things defensively as well. Let him play there, improve and we may come out of this season with a secondbaseman that can be there (cheaply) for a few seasons. Maybe that wont happen but it surely cant happen if he plays two positions. Just because Manuel's still on the payroll lets not use his ideas...

what he said

gosox3072
05-12-2004, 02:39 PM
Were in first place, dont fix what aint broke. Id say we work some sort of trade for someone like baltamore's brian roberts, i think i heard that he could be on the block.

SoxxoS
05-12-2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by gosox3072
Were in first place, dont fix what aint broke. Id say we work some sort of trade for someone like baltamore's brian roberts, i think i heard that he could be on the block.

But we have infield overload and a hole in CF, which one of the infielders can play.

I think there is an easy solution to all of this...but Sox brass wouldn't go for it...

YOU GOT TO SIT KONERKO. Put Frank at first. You can DH Valentin, Uribe or Crede. This lineup:

Harris 2B
Valentin SS/DH
Maggs RF
Thomas 1B
Lee LF
Crede 3B/DH
Uribe DH/util
Reed CF
Olivo C

Oh yeah, that lineup also calls for the callup of Jeremy Reed. But those are our best 9 guys. Konerko is the odd man out.

Randar68
05-12-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
But we have infield overload and a hole in CF, which one of the infielders can play.

I think there is an easy solution to all of this...but Sox brass wouldn't go for it...

YOU GOT TO SIT KONERKO. Put Frank at first. You can DH Valentin, Uribe or Crede. This lineup:

Harris 2B
Valentin SS/DH
Maggs RF
Thomas 1B
Lee LF
Crede 3B/DH
Uribe DH/util
Reed CF
Olivo C

Oh yeah, that lineup also calls for the callup of Jeremy Reed. But those are our best 9 guys. Konerko is the odd man out.

See... It is possible for us to agree (although I'd rather swap Uribe up in the order and Jose down)... :D:

SoxxoS
05-12-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
See... It is possible for us to agree... :D:

Weird, I actually just changed my mind. I want Wunsch at 1B and in the bullpen. :D:

jabrch
05-12-2004, 02:56 PM
I still don't want Reed up here until after the service deadline date. I don't want to accelerate his FA/Arbitration by a year.

voodoochile
05-12-2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
I still don't want Reed up here until after the service deadline date. I don't want to accelerate his FA/Arbitration by a year.

This is exactly the type of micromanagement that has cost the Sox in years past. Let's stop worrying about what will happen 6 years from now and start worrying about today.

I don't know if Reed is ready or not, but if he is, bring his ass up and trade Rowand or whomever you can get something decent for.

Not bad thinking on the bench Paulie and put Frank at first. I would even think you could play either Jose or Crede there in a pinch. I know Jose has done it before and most 3B can play the other corner on some acceptable level, though I would hesitate to take Crede out of his comfort zone.

SEALgep
05-12-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
I still don't want Reed up here until after the service deadline date. I don't want to accelerate his FA/Arbitration by a year. I agree, Willie is a second baseman, hands down. If we are going to make a change, I would rather it be Reed in CF. If they aren't going to do it immediately, than we might as well wait until the service deadline.

jlh0023
05-12-2004, 07:07 PM
Willie is a second basemen. It's logical to want to keep all of our middle infielders in the lineup, but that's no reason to take them out of their natural positions. Especially a guy like Willie who is still developing a lot offensively, doesn't need to worry about learning to be a good CFder.

It's not a bad thing to have a solid bat or two (especially a lefty one with our lineup) on the bench every day.....

Plus, Harris doesn't have the arm strength for center, and Rowand has been fine defensively.

ALSO...... leave Reed in the minors. No harm in getting him some extra AAA at bats. I don't want to see him at least until after the all-star break.

OurBitchinMinny
05-12-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
But we have infield overload and a hole in CF, which one of the infielders can play.

I think there is an easy solution to all of this...but Sox brass wouldn't go for it...

YOU GOT TO SIT KONERKO. Put Frank at first. You can DH Valentin, Uribe or Crede. This lineup:

Harris 2B
Valentin SS/DH
Maggs RF
Thomas 1B
Lee LF
Crede 3B/DH
Uribe DH/util
Reed CF
Olivo C

Oh yeah, that lineup also calls for the callup of Jeremy Reed. But those are our best 9 guys. Konerko is the odd man out.


uribe cant be utility. If anyone is utility it should be the K machine or harris. Uribe needs to be in the lineup everyday. Thats why the idea of acquiring ventura is asinine. It would just be another guy that youd have to get in in the log jam. I say put harris in center for the time being. Hopefully at some point we can unload valentin and then the problem is solved (well I guess we still need a CF, but maybe reed is ready by then).

OEO Magglio
05-12-2004, 07:24 PM
To me it just makes sense to put willie in center, put the best offense and defense out on the field. But Ozzie tonight is sticking with the same lineup as last night except Miguel is catching. I'm happy ozzie is sitting pk again. Lineup tonight:

Harris 2b
Valentin ss
Maggs rf
Thomas dh
clee lf
Gload 1b
Uribe 3b
Perez cf
Olivo c

pjthesox13
05-12-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
To me it just makes sense to put willie in center, put the best offense and defense out on the field. But Ozzie tonight is sticking with the same lineup as last night except Miguel is catching. I'm happy ozzie is sitting pk again. Lineup tonight:

Harris 2b
Valentin ss
Maggs rf
Thomas dh
clee lf
Gload 1b
Uribe 3b
Perez cf
Olivo c

Is it just me or shouldn't Uribe be batting earlier in the lineup? 2 or 5 hole maybe or I'm I just loco?

Randar68
05-12-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023
Plus, Harris doesn't have the arm strength for center, and Rowand has been fine defensively.


wow, i thought all the "Rowand is or will be fine' FOC had died and gone away. Guess not. Some still grasping to that fallacy.

SEALgep
05-12-2004, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
wow, i thought all the "Rowand is or will be fine' FOC had died and gone away. Guess not. Some still grasping to that fallacy. Randar, how many times have you jumped on my back for revisiting this issue. I think Rowand is a good outfielder. My views are known as are yours. However, if you want to discuss it some more, then don't complain when I or others state why we like the guy. If you don't want to hear it anymore, then don't keep posting your side of the issue.

raul12
05-12-2004, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Randar, how many times have you jumped on my back for revisiting this issue. I think Rowand is a good outfielder. My views are known as are yours. However, if you want to discuss it some more, then don't complain when I or others state why we like the guy. If you don't want to hear it anymore, then don't keep posting your side of the issue.

Simply b/c why you like the guy is just not true. He can't read fly balls, and he makes routine plays look like web gems, and what would be web gems...he just can't get there. He can't cut it offensively, so why the heck are people still behind this guy? Mike Caruso managed to hit .300 over a whole year...Crash has yet to even come close to that. We don't have a Friends of Slappy, do we?

Randar68
05-12-2004, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Randar, how many times have you jumped on my back for revisiting this issue. I think Rowand is a good outfielder. My views are known as are yours. However, if you want to discuss it some more, then don't complain when I or others state why we like the guy. If you don't want to hear it anymore, then don't keep posting your side of the issue.

after the first month plus, the only way to confuse rowand with a 'good defensive OF'er' is to be completely blind, something even probably 90+% of the FOC have admitted. I just didn't know there really was a remaining oblivious 10%...

SEALgep
05-12-2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
after the first month plus, the only way to confuse rowand with a 'good defensive OF'er' is to be completely blind, something even probably 90+% of the FOC have admitted. I just didn't know there really was a remaining oblivious 10%... Just don't want to hear hypocracy when I decide to state my views.

SEALgep
05-12-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by raul12
Simply b/c why you like the guy is just not true. He can't read fly balls, and he makes routine plays look like web gems, and what would be web gems...he just can't get there. He can't cut it offensively, so why the heck are people still behind this guy? Mike Caruso managed to hit .300 over a whole year...Crash has yet to even come close to that. We don't have a Friends of Slappy, do we? Simply because why I like the guy is just not true? I'm not sure what that means, but I think he's better than you make him out to be. Rowand has never had a full season in the majors to judge him fairly to those who have. I believe he's a pretty good player, and at the very least a real solid off the bench player.

raul12
05-12-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Simply because why I like the guy is just not true? I'm not sure what that means, but I think he's better than you make him out to be. Rowand has never had a full season in the majors to judge him fairly to those who have. I believe he's a pretty good player, and at the very least a real solid off the bench player.

I never said he's not worthy of being a 4th outfielder--but he is exactly that...a 4th outfielder. Care to back up your "thinking" and "believing" with facts?

However, if Randar can't convince you after all these months that Crash is just mediocre, I guess no one could. I'm done.

Randar68
05-12-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by raul12
I never said he's not worthy of being a 4th outfielder--but he is exactly that...a 4th outfielder. Care to back up your "thinking" and "believing" with facts?

However, if Randar can't convince you after all these months that Crash is just mediocre, I guess no one could. I'm done.

Yep, while the silent majority are of the same belief, i guess i'm the only one masochistic enough to continue fighting the good fight...

SEALgep
05-12-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by raul12
I never said he's not worthy of being a 4th outfielder--but he is exactly that...a 4th outfielder. Care to back up your "thinking" and "believing" with facts?

However, if Randar can't convince you after all these months that Crash is just mediocre, I guess no one could. I'm done. Then be done. All the facts I need to convince myself that he is a good outfielder is what I've seen. I don't need others misconstruding how he plays, especially defensively, in order to form a vaid opinion. However, just so you know, what you and I think are indeed opinions. And it is my opinion that Rowand is a good outfielder, end of discussion, unless there is something more specific you wish to discuss.

SEALgep
05-12-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yep, while the silent majority are of the same belief, i guess i'm the only one masochistic enough to continue fighting the good fight... The good fight meaning trying to convince Sox fans that Rowand is worthless. There are better fights out there Randar, and most of them are more worthy of arguing.

Paulwny
05-13-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yep, while the silent majority are of the same belief, i guess i'm the only one masochistic enough to continue fighting the good fight...

Yep, the silent majority can only take so much beating their heads againt a wall.
We'll allow you to be the masochist.
Keep up the good fight we're with you in spirit.