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ChiSox14305635
05-10-2004, 02:27 PM
Just heard on ESPN Radio 1000 that the Sox activated Wunsch off the DL, and then optioned him down to Charlotte. Hope he's back with the Sox soon.

cheeses_h_rice
05-10-2004, 02:38 PM
I wonder exactly whose Cheerios he whizzed in?

poorme
05-10-2004, 02:40 PM
He must have cleared waivers??? Man, they are really jerking this guy around.

Mickster
05-10-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by poorme
He must have cleared waivers??? Man, they are really jerking this guy around.

My first thought as well. Does he even have any options? How could a team pass him up???? :?:

sas1974
05-10-2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by poorme
He must have cleared waivers??? Man, they are really jerking this guy around.

I don't think that he had to clear waivers. I read this morning that he still has all of his minor league options left.

ChiSox14305635
05-10-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by poorme
He must have cleared waivers??? Man, they are really jerking this guy around.

He was drafted by the Brewers, but he was never called up by them, so he had all of his options available.

duke of dorwood
05-10-2004, 07:06 PM
They'll be sorry they did this when Marte's arm falls off before the end of May

Randar68
05-10-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
They'll be sorry they did this when Marte's arm falls off before the end of May

Duke, you know what? When that happens, they can RECALL Kelly.

The Wunsch Fan Club can step off the ledge now.

RKMeibalane
05-10-2004, 07:59 PM
I'm convinced Kelly was the person Williams was talking about during Spring Training.

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Duke, you know what? When that happens, they can RECALL Kelly.

The Wunsch Fan Club can step off the ledge now.

Wunsch can't replace Marte. You even said so yourself, Randar. So why use a preventative measure and call Wunsch up to take a bit of the load off of Marte? It's only a matter of time before Adkins diet crashes and burns.

If Marte goes down, we are in dire straits. I would rather just prevent that.

Randar68
05-10-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Wunsch can't replace Marte. You even said so yourself, Randar. So why use a preventative measure and call Wunsch up to take a bit of the load off of Marte? It's only a matter of time before Adkins diet crashes and burns.

If Marte goes down, we are in dire straits. I would rather just prevent that.

I'm still waitinig for an answer on who your long reliever is outside of the possibility of Cotts.

But, i don't expect that to actually get answered, so carry on...

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I'm still waitinig for an answer on who your long reliever is outside of the possibility of Cotts.

But, i don't expect that to actually get answered, so carry on...

Show me how many times we have used a "long reliever" this season. For the amount of times we have used it, Cotts can handle it. You are acting like Jon Adkins is a worldbeater.

Are you Jon Adkins, or Jon Adkins brother? Oh wise-one, exactly how many times has Jon Adkins pitched long relief this season.

Exactly.

Randar68
05-10-2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Show me how many times we have used a "long reliever" this season. For the amount of times we have used it, Cotts can handle it. You are acting like Jon Adkins is a worldbeater.

Are you Jon Adkins, or Jon Adkins brother? Oh wise-one, exactly how many times has Jon Adkins pitched long relief this season.


Your stance is completely indefensible, and it shows because you YET AGAIN failed to answer the question. It doesn't have to be Adkins, it could be Rauch, Grilli, Diaz, anyone... but to remove your long-reliver for a guy who won't go more than an inning is a death wish for the ENTIRE bullpen.

Thankfully, your completely short-sighted ideals are shared by nobody in a position to put them into action.

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Your stance is completely indefensible, and it shows because you YET AGAIN failed to answer the question. It doesn't have to be Adkins, it could be Rauch, Grilli, Diaz, anyone... but to remove your long-reliver for a guy who won't go more than an inning is a death wish for the ENTIRE bullpen.

Thankfully, your completely short-sighted ideals are shared by nobody in a position to put them into action.

And you YET AGAIN didn't answer my question. How many times have we used a long reliever? It's taking precautionary measures for something that just doesn't happen that often. It is definietly NOT out of the realm of possibility that one of the 3 catchers can get dropped for a pitcher.

On a related note, you know a lot about baseball, but every one of you messages has an "I am all-knowing" tone to it, and it gets quite painful and annoying to read. Just an FYI that I am sure a lot of people agree with.

Randar68
05-10-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
And you YET AGAIN didn't answer my question. How many times have we used a long reliever? It's taking precautionary measures for something that just doesn't happen that often. It is definietly NOT out of the realm of possibility that one of the 3 catchers can get dropped for a pitcher.

Yes, and we currently still don't have a 5th starter on the roster? Your point? Adkins has twice pitched in long relief. You need somebody to come in and clean up the trash when a pitcher get's hurt or stinks up the joint. That will happen a few times a month, even if you don't have Danny Wright starting. Without a long reliever capable of eating 5 innings, you put yourself in a hole for a few days by pitching 3/4's of your bullpen longer than they are used to going just to finish the game, let alone give yourself a chance to come back.

Every team in the league has this type of pitcher in their bullpen. They don't have to be world-beaters, but they have to throw strikes and eat the innings. This is why the Adkins witch-hunt is a bad joke.

Originally posted by SoxxoS
On a related note, you know a lot about baseball, but every one of you messages has an "I am all-knowing" tone to it, and it gets quite painful and annoying to read. Just an FYI that I am sure a lot of people agree with.


Frankly, I'm tired of every 40-post 13-year old thinking they know the answer to the world's problems in baseball. The lack of long-term thought and planning by some is just mind-boggling. Don't worry, if people stare at box scores long enough, I'm sure they'll find all the answer's to the world's problems and the solve the issue of a Palestinian state overnight....

The FOC wore my patience completely out, so yes, I'm short, to the point, and very dismissive of many peoples' opinions who I feel have no clue what they are talking about. I may not be the judge of what is or isn't, but that won't stop me from speaking my mind when someone tells me Rowand runs good routes or some other completely oblivious poppy-cock like that.

If people don't like it, they can put me on ignore. It will save us both a lot of wasted time debating crap like "promoting Wunsch because we need another freaking lefty specialist in the pen despite him not being back to pre-injury form..."



ugh.

MRKARNO
05-10-2004, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

The FOC wore my patience completely out, so yes, I'm short, to the point, and very dismissive of many peoples' opinions who I feel have no clue what they are talking about. I may not be the judge of what is or isn't, but that won't stop me from speaking my mind when someone tells me Rowand runs good routes or some other completely oblivious poppy-cock like that.



But don't you remember those three or so times that Rowand ran an amazing route?

Randar68
05-10-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
But don't you remember those three or so times that Rowand ran an amazing route?

Exactly. I went into chat the other day, Rowand made a nice play in left-center (I have long said that balls at him are the issue, not gappers for the MOST part) and there were 25 people trying to tell me how great it was...

We definitely need a better emoticon for :rollseyes

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yes, and we currently still don't have a 5th starter on the roster? Your point? Adkins has twice pitched in long relief. You need somebody to come in and clean up the trash when a pitcher get's hurt or stinks up the joint. That will happen a few times a month, even if you don't have Danny Wright starting. Without a long reliever capable of eating 5 innings, you put yourself in a hole for a few days by pitching 3/4's of your bullpen longer than they are used to going just to finish the game, let alone give yourself a chance to come back.

Every team in the league has this type of pitcher in their bullpen. They don't have to be world-beaters, but they have to throw strikes and eat the innings. This is why the Adkins witch-hunt is a bad joke.

And we can't demote Burke to keep your boy Adkins...why?




Originally posted by Randar68
Frankly, I'm tired of every 40-post 13-year old thinking they know the answer to the world's problems in baseball. The lack of long-term thought and planning by some is just mind-boggling. Don't worry, if people stare at box scores long enough, I'm sure they'll find all the answer's to the world's problems and the solve the issue of a Palestinian state overnight....

The FOC wore my patience completely out, so yes, I'm short, to the point, and very dismissive of many peoples' opinions who I feel have no clue what they are talking about. I may not be the judge of what is or isn't, but that won't stop me from speaking my mind when someone tells me Rowand runs good routes or some other completely oblivious poppy-cock like that.

If people don't like it, they can put me on ignore. It will save us both a lot of wasted time debating crap like "promoting Wunsch because we need another freaking lefty specialist in the pen despite him not being back to pre-injury form..."
ugh.

You act like you are the general manager...that is what is mind-boggling to me. You don't need to add crap like this: Your long term planning...oh man...you are so all-knowing! I can't believe you dont' have a job with the Sox. You are Randar, and not Kenny Williams, right? to get your point across.

I take the point about the long relief, but you act like you can't field a team without a long reliever on your team. A team DOES need one. There is a spot, however, for BOTH a long reliever...AND Wunsch. If Wunsch is pitching lights out in Charlotte. The Sox signed him for a reason...they must have had a spot for him at the start of spring training.

Burke can hit the bricks.

StockdaleForVeep
05-10-2004, 10:50 PM
Id def want wunsch up compared to valentin. If wunsch can return to his 2000 form, our relief core will be unbeatable. Plus it will get me more holds in fantasy but moving on. Cotts needs to either be our 5th starter or go down to AAA, we didnt add this kid to the foulke trade to be a potential closer or middle man, he was picked to start, in AAA he can get those starts. Wunsch is a very valuable specialist, hence why if the rumors are true, boston wants him. Maybe they'll trade us back Bob Howry

Randar68
05-10-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
And we can't demote Burke to keep your boy Adkins...why?


Burke will be demoted when they bring in a 5th starter. That's not what this thread has been about at all, is it? The point is about calling up Wunsch and where do you put him. As you and others have suggested, we're supposed to demote Adkins, a philosophy I find completely asinine, and I am only saying so.

Do you have a point other than to haggle me about my criticism of the "BS idea of the day?"



Originally posted by SoxxoS
I take the point about the long relief, but you act like you can't field a team without a long reliever on your team. A team DOES need one. There is a spot, however, for BOTH a long reliever...AND Wunsch. If Wunsch is pitching lights out in Charlotte. The Sox signed him for a reason...they must have had a spot for him at the start of spring training.

Burke can hit the bricks.

I don't disagree about Burke back to Charlotte (well, until Sandy falls apart again, anyways). However, you're not considering the entire situation in the bullpen. Yes, there is room for a long reliever and a guy like Wunsch. However, there is no SPOT for Wunsch to fill, and his role is being occupied by 2 better pitchers at the moment. So where do we put him???

It's all well and good to say Player X should be called up, but without finding an adequate place to fit them in, in this case, who to replace, the only thing that's accomplished by posting "Player X should be promoted", is a waste of time and bandwidth.

1) Wunsch ISN'T pitching lights out in Charlotte
2) Cotts beat him out is ST and he was injured and his arm strength is still not back
3) THERE IS NO PLACE TO PUT HIM!

I have again yet to see a solution to these problems that doesn't absolutely handicap the bullpen.

Originally posted by SoxxoS
You act like you are the general manager...that is what is mind-boggling to me. You don't need to add crap like this: Your long term planning...oh man...you are so all-knowing! I can't believe you dont' have a job with the Sox. You are Randar, and not Kenny Williams, right? to get your point across.

Sheeesh. People think by knocking me down, they'll gain respect or admiration, Why, I don't know. However, I will continue to absolutely TEAR APART posts that are not thought out or are completely asinine. does it make me look like a a-hole? Almost assuredly. Sorry, but if people don't put thought into their posts, I'm not going to put any credence or consideration into how my post affects their "feelings".

Again. People can get over it and use their brains before connecting their fingers to the keyboard, or they can put me on ignore. They won't hurt my feelings.

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 11:15 PM
Having an opinion is what WSI is all about...but very few people add stupid comments that try to be funny and prove a point. Those are not needed.

I'm not trying to "tear you down" to gain anything. I am just stating what I think needs to be said. What you do is your business. Last I checked, this board was about the White Sox and everybody's opinions. Not about making a statement, then saying something in teal about the Palastinian conflict. There is just no need, and doesn't prove anything extra.

The whole Wunsch thing was blown out of proportion by me not stating in this thread that in order for Wunsch to get called up, he needs to be pitching lights out. There is a spot for a guy with his career numbers on this team, we aren't stacked 1-11 pitching wise. Figure out where he fits...That is KW's job.

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 11:22 PM
Sorry, but if people don't put thought into their posts, I'm not going to put any credence or consideration into how my post affects their "feelings".

Maybe you should realize that some people don't have the baseball knowledge or experience that you have. Did you ever think about that? Some people that post on this board are probably 16...so you have 9 years of experience on them.

You should think about not sounding so pompus and realize that this is a community where anyone can post.

Randar68
05-10-2004, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Having an opinion is what WSI is all about...but very few people add stupid comments that try to be funny and prove a point. Those are not needed.

I'm not trying to "tear you down" to gain anything. I am just stating what I think needs to be said. What you do is your business. Last I checked, this board was about the White Sox and everybody's opinions. Not about making a statement, then saying something in teal about the Palastinian conflict. There is just no need, and doesn't prove anything extra.

The whole Wunsch thing was blown out of proportion by me not stating in this thread that in order for Wunsch to get called up, he needs to be pitching lights out. There is a spot for a guy with his career numbers on this team, we aren't stacked 1-11 pitching wise. Figure out where he fits...That is KW's job.

Every 'debate' we have starts with you being completely vague or unclear, and then after pages of argument, you stating "clearly" your point. why not start out there? This is exactly what I am talking about.

Sorry, but people are here to talk sox and have fun, making jokes is part of it. You take yourself far too seriously if you can't have a laugh while here.

Guess what, this whole thread would not have digressed into this had you stated your opinion clearly in the original post. 50 or however many posts later, now you have a clear point? Sheeesh. Which came first, the opinion or the being criticized and THEN forming a definitive opinion? It's impossible to tell unless you figure out how to communicate your ideas at the first attempt.

Randar68
05-10-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Maybe you should realize that some people don't have the baseball knowledge or experience that you have. Did you ever think about that? Some people that post on this board are probably 16...so you have 9 years of experience on them.

You should think about not sounding so pompus and realize that this is a community where anyone can post.

There is a core group of posters here who I enjoy debating and discussing things with. However, it is impossible to do so without the interjections of said 13-years-olds and other johny-come-lately's who posts without using that cantaloupe between their ears.

I've never really been reprimanded for it by the mods, so I'm not sure why you and others like Mahoney think you need to be the super-hero's for the criticized and thoughtless posters around here.

Work on your communications skills before critiquing someone else.

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Every 'debate' we have starts with you being completely vague or unclear, and then after pages of argument, you stating "clearly" your point. why not start out there? This is exactly what I am talking about.

Sorry, but people are here to talk sox and have fun, making jokes is part of it. You take yourself far too seriously if you can't have a laugh while here.

Guess what, this whole thread would not have digressed into this had you stated your opinion clearly in the original post. 50 or however many posts later, now you have a clear point? Sheeesh. Which came first, the opinion or the being criticized and THEN forming a definitive opinion? It's impossible to tell unless you figure out how to communicate your ideas at the first attempt.

I am probably the most laid back guy you will ever meet...I am not serious about this. I just had the post of the week :D:

But I don't know many people that like to argue or discuss with people when they are quoted like they are retarded (sorry for not being PC) or being talked down to. That gets them off the statement of baseball, and onto something else like name calling and other BS like that. Which is why this thread is so long.

My fault for not getting my point across about Wunsch sooner.

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
There is a core group of posters here who I enjoy debating and discussing things with. However, it is impossible to do so without the interjections of said 13-years-olds and other johny-come-lately's who posts without using that cantaloupe between their ears.

I've never really been reprimanded for it by the mods, so I'm not sure why you and others like Mahoney think you need to be the super-hero's for the criticized and thoughtless posters around here.

Work on your communications skills before critiquing someone else.

It's funny you say that, because I am a double major, one being Communications. I know a little bit about the subject. And I know for a fact that adding pompus remarks in the middle of a thread isn't against the "rules of WSI" (so you aren't going to get reported) but are against the unwritten rules of effective communication.

This isn't about being a "super hero." It's about realizing that not everyone is as knowledgeable as you, and you don't have to add idiotic remarks to make your point. That is all I am saying. You can criticize all you want. I am just telling you it would be more effective if you didn't respond like you were Bill James.

StockdaleForVeep
05-11-2004, 01:33 AM
Heh, if we're gonna get Anal, hasnt this post lost its sox context and should be moved to the parkin lot?

Voice of Reason
05-11-2004, 02:51 AM
In an effort to get back on topic and a response to Randar's comment that without Adkins we don't have a long reliever. I would like to point out that Politte was once a starter and that he could potentially be used in long relief. Especially since at the moment he isn't cutting it as a high leverage guy.

poorme
05-11-2004, 08:17 AM
Wunsch was a starter for most of his minor league career. There's no reason he couldn't go a couple of innings. His lifetime ERA is 3.69 compared to the league average of 4.81.

Dadawg_77
05-11-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
In an effort to get back on topic and a response to Randar's comment that without Adkins we don't have a long reliever. I would like to point out that Politte was once a starter and that he could potentially be used in long relief. Especially since at the moment he isn't cutting it as a high leverage guy.

If Wunsch is healthy he should take Politte or Jackson spot. If he isn't let him get his arm back to full strength in minors.

Something tells me Jackson will get lit up at some point, his K/9 rate is horrible. That could come back to bite him in the ass.

What is troublesome is this could be the year where the Sox fail to have a top reliever (by performance) in the pen. The only Shot is Marte. In the past several years, the Sox have had two or three.

Randar68
05-11-2004, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If Wunsch is healthy he should take Politte or Jackson spot. If he isn't let him get his arm back to full strength in minors.

:throwshandsinair

Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Something tells me Jackson will get lit up at some point, his K/9 rate is horrible. That could come back to bite him in the ass.


I have doubts he'll stay healthy, but AGAIN, you'd be adding another lefty to a pen that already has 2 capable ones and losing a rightie in the process should he go down.

There is nothing stopping them from calling up Wunsch in the future. Again, I don't know why so many are so eager to call him up now like we'll lose him if we don't... He's not throwing at 100%, and that should be all anyone needs to know... but no... on an on we go...

:?:

Dadawg_77
05-11-2004, 10:05 AM
Look the whole righty vs lefty is overrate when you use subpar pitchers to get the job done. I want the best pitchers in the pen regardless of which hand they pitch with. A healthy Wunsch is better then Politte, Jackson or Koch.

poorme
05-11-2004, 10:53 AM
Why aren't Loaiza, Marte, and Koch in the minors "working on their velocity?"

poorme
05-11-2004, 11:00 AM
A player who has been in the Major Leagues for parts of three different seasons is out of options, and must clear waivers in order to be sent down beginning with his fourth big league season.

I still don't understand how Wunsch could be sent down. There must be some kind of loophole somewhere...

Voice of Reason
05-11-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by poorme
A player who has been in the Major Leagues for parts of three different seasons is out of options, and must clear waivers in order to be sent down beginning with his fourth big league season.

I still don't understand how Wunsch could be sent down. There must be some kind of loophole somewhere...

An option is used everytime you call a player up from the minors to the majors. When Wunsch initially made the team that was one option. AFAIK that is the only time he has been recalled from the minors so he should have two more options remaining. Once we recall him, he should have one remaining option.

poorme
05-11-2004, 03:04 PM
Well, while that may be true, it's not the entire truth. We couldn't send Thomas to the minors even though his options weren't used up.

Voice of Reason
05-11-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Well, while that may be true, it's not the entire truth. We couldn't send Thomas to the minors even though his options weren't used up.

Correct, players with five full years of service time can reject an assignment to the minors. In that case the player can be released or simply remain on the major league roster.

And by the way I made a slight mistake in explaining options. It isn't 3 different call ups. It's 3 different years in which he may be called up or sent down as many times as the team wishes.

poorme
05-11-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
Correct, players with five full years of service time can reject an assignment to the minors.

aha. There's the missing piece of info..