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mcfish
05-10-2004, 11:14 AM
I know some are calling for the activation of Jeremy Reed and I have some questions about that. First of all, why is he on the roster for Birmingham instead of Charlotte? Shouldn't he be playing AAA ball as a better test of his abilities if he is the centerfielder of the very near future? Also, how did Rowand hit in the minors? I know he's been bad this year at the plate - I saw an AB yesterday where he swang and missed at the same pitch low and outside 3 times in a row before he went back to take his seat - but that doesn't mean he wasn't hitting while on the farm. If Rowand hit well in the minors and then couldn't cut it against big league pitching, then why should we believe that Reed can go from AA to MLB pitching and do much better?

I really do hope for the best and I don't mean to say that Reed can't succeed, I'm just looking for a little background on the situation because I don't know much about it.

sas1974
05-10-2004, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by mcfish
I know some are calling for the activation of Jeremy Reed and I have some questions about that. First of all, why is he on the roster for Birmingham instead of Charlotte? Shouldn't he be playing AAA ball as a better test of his abilities if he is the centerfielder of the very near future? Also, how did Rowand hit in the minors? I know he's been bad this year at the plate - I saw an AB yesterday where he swang and missed at the same pitch low and outside 3 times in a row before he went back to take his seat - but that doesn't mean he wasn't hitting while on the farm. If Rowand hit well in the minors and then couldn't cut it against big league pitching, then why should we believe that Reed can go from AA to MLB pitching and do much better?

I really do hope for the best and I don't mean to say that Reed can't succeed, I'm just looking for a little background on the situation because I don't know much about it.

Reed's in Charlotte (http://www.charlotteknights.com/pressbox/profiles/reed.htm) .

mcfish
05-10-2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
Reed's in Charlotte.

Whitesox.com should update their rosters. That does make more sense then, but the question still remains. Replace AA with AAA and I ask again ...

batmanZoSo
05-10-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by mcfish
Whitesox.com should update their rosters. That does make more sense then, but the question still remains. Replace AA with AAA and I ask again ...

Okay. Do you think he'll be worse than Rowand?

We shouldn't bring him up now, but a July call up would be most beneficial for him. Because we want him ready to play every day next year and he's gotta get his feet wet before his 05 rookie of the year camapaign.

mcfish
05-10-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Okay. Do you think he'll be worse than Rowand?

We shouldn't bring him up now, but a July call up would be most beneficial for him. Because we want him ready to play every day next year and he's gotta get his feet wet before his 05 rookie of the year camapaign.

Nope - I'm just asking about stats because I have never really followed the minor leagues before (I'm new here and this is my only source of Good Guys information). I have no idea who will be better - I'm asking whether Rowand hit comparibly better or worse in Charlotte and what that means for the possibility of Reed's success. I can't imagine Rowand got called up to the bigs by hitting like crap in Charlotte, so I'm wondering what basis we all have to think Reed is going to succeed in Chicago. I hope he does just as much as the rest of you, I'm just asking because I have no frame of reference.

batmanZoSo
05-10-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by mcfish
Nope - I'm just asking about stats because I have never really followed the minor leagues before (I'm new here and this is my only source of Good Guys information). I have no idea who will be better - I'm asking whether Rowand hit comparibly better or worse in Charlotte and what that means for the possibility of Reed's success. I can't imagine Rowand got called up to the bigs by hitting like crap in Charlotte, so I'm wondering what basis we all have to think Reed is going to succeed in Chicago. I hope he does just as much as the rest of you, I'm just asking because I have no frame of reference.

Rowand wasn't nearly as good as Reed when he was in the minors. That's why Reed's a top prospect and Rowand wasn't. I don't have any stats on me but I think Rowand hit something like .280 with 20-24 homers as his best year. I don't think he ever batted .300 let alone .400.

Reed is the number 2 prospect in baseball. If anyone can come up and contribute it's him. Or whoever's number one.

mcfish
05-10-2004, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Rowand wasn't nearly as good as Reed when he was in the minors. That's why Reed's a top prospect and Rowand wasn't. I don't have any stats on me but I think Rowand hit something like .280 with 20-24 homers as his best year. I don't think he ever batted .300 let alone .400.

Reed is the number 2 prospect in baseball. If anyone can come up and contribute it's him. Or whoever's number one.

That sounds great. I did not know whether this board was having this exact same discussion about "BRING UP ROWAND" two years ago. Sounds like that thread was never started. I also didn't know Reed was hitting .400 - I thought he was somewhere in the .300's.

When did we acquire Reed (I assume through a draft)?

batmanZoSo
05-10-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
That sounds great. I did not know whether this board was having this exact same discussion about "BRING UP ROWAND" two years ago. Sounds like that thread was never started. I also didn't know Reed was hitting .400 - I thought he was somewhere in the .300's.

When did we acquire Reed (I assume through a draft)?

He hit .400 at AA last year for about 300 at bats or so. I can't tell you for sure how we got him. We did draft him in maybe the second round out of Long Beach State or one of those So Cal schools that produce tons of big leaguers. :?: Ask someone else on that one, I'm not sure.

TDog
05-10-2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Okay. Do you think he'll be worse than Rowand? ...


This is the same argument I heard from fans at the park last year, made for Borchard instead of Reed. The Sox broght up Borchard before he was ready. Now everyone here seems to think he's a bum rather than a raw talent who is working hard on improving his game.

A few years ago fans wanted the Sox to call up Garland, who was lights out in the minors, and when he proved not to be ready, people wrote him off.

Reed may one day be a great player, but he may never be as popular with Sox fans as he is now.

Rex Hudler
05-10-2004, 12:58 PM
Rowand was a solid hitter in the minors but is a different type of hitter than Reed.

Rowand has not been an everyday player since the first half of the 2001 season, where he hit .295 with 16 HR and 48 RBI in 82 games. He hit 20 HR and had 98 RBI the previous season in AA. Strikeouts were somewhat of a problem with him, however and that lack of discipline is hurting him now.

I think the thing that has hurt Rowand the most is the lack of being an everyday player. Granted he has been cashing a MLB paycheck, but I do think being a part-time player hurt his chances of succeeding on a larger scale in the Majors. I still think he has a chance, but that bulb is getting dimmer by the day right now.

Reed on the other hand, is a more disciplined hitter. He has less power at this point, but is a higher average hitter who walks a ton and rarely strikes out. He handles the bat better when he is behind in the count than any Minor League hitter I can recall. Getting down 0-2 in the count doesn't faze him at all.

My guess is that Jeremy Reed will be fine at the MLB level even if called up this year. But there is as good a chance of him being Mark Kotsay as their is Tony Gwynn. So while I think he can contribute and help the Sox, don't be disappointed if he is not a perennial all-star.

To answer your question, yes I think it can be expected that Reed would do more than Rowand is doing right now, simply because of plate discipline.

Randar68
05-10-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Nope - I'm just asking about stats because I have never really followed the minor leagues before (I'm new here and this is my only source of Good Guys information). I have no idea who will be better - I'm asking whether Rowand hit comparibly better or worse in Charlotte and what that means for the possibility of Reed's success. I can't imagine Rowand got called up to the bigs by hitting like crap in Charlotte, so I'm wondering what basis we all have to think Reed is going to succeed in Chicago. I hope he does just as much as the rest of you, I'm just asking because I have no frame of reference.

Rowand's career Minor League stats (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?ID=1440)

Reed's Minor League stats Prior to this year (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=GHAI)

Reed's done it considerably better, faster, and more complete than Rowand ever dreamed of. This comparison is utterly ridiculous. Reed is a very good CF'er compared to Rowand, who was a hack in LF in the minors.

Rowand has never hit above .300 in a full season of minor league ball, while Reed has never hit below .319 at ANY level, while advancing much more quickly than Rowand. Reed ONLY went 1-3 last night, except Reed took 3 walks in a game, something I almost would bet money that Rowand has NEVER done in a professional game.

Like I said, this comparison is really silly.

Randar68
05-10-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by TDog
This is the same argument I heard from fans at the park last year, made for Borchard instead of Reed. The Sox broght up Borchard before he was ready. Now everyone here seems to think he's a bum rather than a raw talent who is working hard on improving his game.

A few years ago fans wanted the Sox to call up Garland, who was lights out in the minors, and when he proved not to be ready, people wrote him off.

Reed may one day be a great player, but he may never be as popular with Sox fans as he is now.

Comparing those arguments is silly, IMO. Borchard has had plate discipline issues and a long swing since the day he was drafted. He also was only a part-time baseball player until he signes that contract. Reed has a ton more baseball experience than Borchard at the same stage. Also, plate discipline, pitch recognition, etc are things that are significantly more projectable and more easily carry-over as one moves up the ladder.

I won't comment further on Borchard. He had a great year in AA, but has struggled mightily at AAA and has been a walking band-aid for 2 years with nagging injuries one after the other.

Mark Kotsay, Tony Gwynn... either is significantly higher than Rowand's ceiling. I'm not concerned about "rushing" Reed. He's a completely different kind of player than your traditional White Sox hitting prospect.

TDog
05-10-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Comparing those arguments is silly, IMO. ...

My point, which I hoped to make clear by including Garland, was not to compare Borchard and Reed, but to argue that Sox fans have a tendency to look at their minor leaguers with fondness before giving up on them when they see early failure. I can go back to Ossie Blanco. No matter how good a ballplayer Reed will turn out to be, I don't imagine he'll ever be more popular in this forum than he is right now.

Hondo
05-10-2004, 01:28 PM
I know Randar and a few other guys really follow the minors.

In terms of AA and AAA I had heard or read that in some ways AA is a better barometer in evaluating talent. The idea that AAA is a step up over AA isn't so much true anymore.

Any truth to that?

Randar68
05-10-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by TDog
My point, which I hoped to make clear by including Garland, was not to compare Borchard and Reed, but to argue that Sox fans have a tendency to look at their minor leaguers with fondness before giving up on them when they see early failure. I can go back to Ossie Blanco. No matter how good a ballplayer Reed will turn out to be, I don't imagine he'll ever be more popular in this forum than he is right now.

The fans of every organization do this. People who do not follow things closely go from one name to the next, and if someone doesn't come in and set the world on fire, the bitch and moan about how "people" have over-hyped the prospects.

People think that supplying them information on the prospects is over-hyping them only when they fail. Either people should use it for informational purposes and accept the failures and successes, or they should ignore it altogether. But... much like common sense... it's likely too much to ask from the majority of folks...

Randar68
05-10-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
I know Randar and a few other guys really follow the minors.

In terms of AA and AAA I had heard or read that in some ways AA is a better barometer in evaluating talent. The idea that AAA is a step up over AA isn't so much true anymore.

Any truth to that?

Many of the top prsopects spend only a little time at AAA. However, there are a lot of veteran pitchers and players in AAA that have a better idea of how to get guys out other than just "stuff" and the hitters are generally more patient and kill a pitcher's mistakes more often.

It's a step up, but it's not nearly the same "step" as A to AA, IMO.

Rex Hudler
05-10-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Rowand's career Minor League stats (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?ID=1440)

Reed's Minor League stats Prior to this year (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=GHAI)

Reed's done it considerably better, faster, and more complete than Rowand ever dreamed of. This comparison is utterly ridiculous. Reed is a very good CF'er compared to Rowand, who was a hack in LF in the minors.

Rowand has never hit above .300 in a full season of minor league ball, while Reed has never hit below .319 at ANY level, while advancing much more quickly than Rowand. Reed ONLY went 1-3 last night, except Reed took 3 walks in a game, something I almost would bet money that Rowand has NEVER done in a professional game.

Like I said, this comparison is really silly.

Let me start by saying that I do think Reed will be the better player and that Reed will soon be the Sox CF, so I am not trying to compare him with Rowand in terms of what the future brings.

But let's be fair in your assessment. Rowand made it to the Majors in 3 years (half season after being drafted, a full season in Class A, a full season in AA and a half season in AAA). Reed is on pace to make it in 2-2 1/2. While Rowand hit for a lower average, he hit for more power. Plate discipline is the difference between the two, there is no doubt about that. But don't sell Rowand's pedigree short. Before he came up the the Majors because the Sox needed a backup OF, he was on quite a nice path to the show.

Rex Hudler
05-10-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Many of the top prsopects spend only a little time at AAA. However, there are a lot of veteran pitchers and players in AAA that have a better idea of how to get guys out other than just "stuff" and the hitters are generally more patient and kill a pitcher's mistakes more often.

It's a step up, but it's not nearly the same "step" as A to AA, IMO.

Agreed......

Randar68
05-10-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Let me start by saying that I do think Reed will be the better player and that Reed will soon be the Sox CF, so I am not trying to compare him with Rowand in terms of what the future brings.

But let's be fair in your assessment. Rowand made it to the Majors in 3 years (half season after being drafted, a full season in Class A, a full season in AA and a half season in AAA). Reed is on pace to make it in 2-2 1/2. While Rowand hit for a lower average, he hit for more power. Plate discipline is the difference between the two, there is no doubt about that. But don't sell Rowand's pedigree short. Before he came up the the Majors because the Sox needed a backup OF, he was on quite a nice path to the show.

Rowand was brought in as a 4th OF'er, and to this day, it's all he's ever been capable of showing himself to be.

Plate discipline, mental approach, average, in-game mental acumen. Heck, Rowand still can't hit offspeed pitches and almost never appears to have a "plan" at the plate.

Rowand is a hell of a hustler, but that's really it.

mcfish
05-10-2004, 02:14 PM
Thanks to everyone for answering my question. I hope for the best for both Reed and Rowand - I don't really care who plays CF, as long as he gets some hits. Sounds like Reed will be a very valuable addition to the White Sox when he's ready, especially considering he should be a good lefty for the lineup.