PDA

View Full Version : Sox fans refuse to pity themselves?


32nd&Wallace
05-08-2004, 07:39 PM
Is it me or how come there is never any romanticizing of the White Sox and their inability to win like the Red Sox and the Cubs? For example, there Red Sox fans and Cubs fans love to talk about curses and that is why they are are stifled in winning. The Bob Costas and the George Wills of the world love to milk this and build up their reputation as befallen franchises. Yet the White Sox are never lumped into this category. Yet, we have as much of a drought as the either the Cubs or Red Sox and could milk the `curse' idea the same way in that we threw a World Series 85 years ago and have had bad luck since.
So why are we not pitied in the national media the same way the Cubs and Red Sox are? Bottom line is Sox fans do not feel sorry for themselves. We do not hide behind the crutch of a curse and refuse to live in the past like Red Sox fans do nor do we milk the lovable losers label like the Cubs.
When we come close and something happens, i.e. 1994, Sox fans dont moan and go `there goes the Curse of SHoeless Joe'
When it came time to tear down Comiskey Park I, Sox fans felt it was time to move on.
We have experience as much pain as the Red Sox and Cubs but yet we refuse to allow ourselves to be pityed the same way those two pathetic franchises have. Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

batmanZoSo
05-08-2004, 07:46 PM
Hey, welcome aboard :gulp:

That's just the way we are. And it kind of sums up our existence that we can't even bank on our WS drought and sell it off as charm. We must be the team that just sucks so bad, we can't win it. It's not because we're cursed. I'm sure that's how others see us.

HomeFish
05-08-2004, 07:50 PM
We failed to cash in on the past and need to find a new starting point for our curse, preferably something recent.

You know, we haven't beat the Twins since we cut Jose Paniagua. Hmm....

PaleHoseGeorge
05-08-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by 32nd&Wallace
Is it me or how come there is never any romanticizing of the White Sox and their inability to win like the Red Sox and the Cubs? ....

Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

Yes, I'll weigh in.

You're a good Sox Fan. Be fruitful and multiply.

Oh, and welcome aboard. :redneck

RKMeibalane
05-08-2004, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Yes, I'll weigh in.

You're a good Sox Fan. Be fruitful and multiply.

Oh, and welcome aboard. :redneck

PHG, I have to say I'm a little surprised that you've kept quiet over the past few days, while virtually everyone on this board has complained about the Sox offensive woes. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on the matter.

voodoochile
05-08-2004, 07:55 PM
Pity sucks...

Losing sucks...

JR sucks...

I'm done...

TornLabrum
05-08-2004, 08:08 PM
Interesting topic, especially so since I was contacted the other day by a writer for MudvilleMagazine.com and asked a very similar question.

A couple of high points from the phone interview with him:

MM: Are the Sox cursed?
TL: You can quote me on this: HELL NO!

MM: Why do you think Sox fans aren't whiney about their team's futility like Cubs and Red Sox fans are.
TL: Because we know the reason for the futility: lousy ownership. We're always one or two pieces short, and they never pull the trigger.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-08-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
PHG, I have to say I'm a little surprised that you've kept quiet over the past few days, while virtually everyone on this board has complained about the Sox offensive woes. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Our offense will be fine, especially once the Willie Harris/Aaron Rowand era comes to an end. It's our pitching that makes me nervous, and so far it hasn't hurt us. So no worries.

Railsplitter
05-08-2004, 09:04 PM
Good first post.

The reason you don't hear about "The Black Sox Curse" is there aren't any media/literary types spreading talk of a curse.

CubKilla
05-08-2004, 09:24 PM
Pitying oneself as a baseball fan is usually derived from some sort of romanticizing of a team that loses. Sox fans have never and will never romanticize losing by blaming ideas as "lovable" as a curse.

samram
05-08-2004, 09:31 PM
It comes from having a realistic perspective on results and refusing to blame 67 win seasons on farm animals, like the fans of some teams might. :smile:

TornLabrum
05-08-2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by samram
It comes from having a realistic perspective on results and refusing to blame 67 win seasons on farm animals, like the fans of some teams might. :smile:

Correct. We know where the problem lies, and it has a name: Reinsdorf. Before that it was named Veeck; before that Allyn, and before that Veeck. We might have actually won more had Dorothy and Chuck Comiskey mended their fences before she accepted Veeck's offer, although Comiskey never did figure out that the milking stool has three legs. Like every other owner we've had in my lifetime, he settled for two.

1951Campbell
05-09-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by 32nd&Wallace
Is it me or how come there is never any romanticizing of the White Sox and their inability to win like the Red Sox and the Cubs? For example, there Red Sox fans and Cubs fans love to talk about curses and that is why they are are stifled in winning. The Bob Costas and the George Wills of the world love to milk this and build up their reputation as befallen franchises. Yet the White Sox are never lumped into this category. Yet, we have as much of a drought as the either the Cubs or Red Sox and could milk the `curse' idea the same way in that we threw a World Series 85 years ago and have had bad luck since.
So why are we not pitied in the national media the same way the Cubs and Red Sox are? Bottom line is Sox fans do not feel sorry for themselves. We do not hide behind the crutch of a curse and refuse to live in the past like Red Sox fans do nor do we milk the lovable losers label like the Cubs.
When we come close and something happens, i.e. 1994, Sox fans dont moan and go `there goes the Curse of SHoeless Joe'
When it came time to tear down Comiskey Park I, Sox fans felt it was time to move on.
We have experience as much pain as the Red Sox and Cubs but yet we refuse to allow ourselves to be pityed the same way those two pathetic franchises have. Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

Man, this is just about the best post ever, and I'm not just sayin' that because I've made the same argument to friends many times. :D:

Cubs Fan and Red Sox Fan fill two voids that appeal to literary types that have nothing better to do than traffic in dumb, mythic archetypes. The Cubs myth is all about eternal hope for the downtrodden loser. America loves an underdog, and if one team is always the underdog there is much to love.

The Red Sox myth is all about tragic self-pity. We all know that Oedipus is gonna kill dad and schtupp mom. You see it coming, yet you still feel the need to rehash exactly how the situation could have been avoided. And the stunted, self-pitying, joy-hating New England soul loves a story with an unhappy ending.

The White Sox threw a Series, then got about 80 years of bad owners. Its a purely earthly, tawdry story based on money. No one to blame but ourselves. And that's not the stuff of legend.

MJL_Sox_Fan
05-09-2004, 12:10 AM
AS I posted in response to another thread. I love the fact that we don't portray ourselves as cursed or lovable losers. "If we the loyal followers allow the media and others to portray ourselves as such that is what we will become. The cubs and their fans are losers because that is how they see themselves."

woodenleg
05-09-2004, 12:12 AM
[i]
The White Sox threw a Series, then got about 80 years of bad owners. Its a purely earthly, tawdry story based on money. No one to blame but ourselves. And that's not the stuff of legend. [/B]

That is exactly it. White Sox fans see the whole thing for what it is - a business. White Sox fans are realists - they don't have the patience for that mythic b.s. Fairy tales are not a rational explanation for losing. We should all be proud of that.

When I was growing up, my parents didn't even tell me that we didn't win a World Series since 1917 until I was, like, ten years old. And I came from a hard-core White Sox family that used to follow the team all over the country and visit them during spring training. Tragedy just wasn't a part of how they saw themselves.

SoxFan76
05-09-2004, 01:31 AM
First off, that's a pretty good first post.

I have always wondered why Red Sox fans would want to stoop to the level of Cub fans. Atleast the Red Sox are competitive, and even made it to a World Series in the 80's. Year after year the Red Sox play great baseball, yet they want to compare themselves to the Cubs. I don't get it.

voodoochile
05-09-2004, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
First off, that's a pretty good first post.

I have always wondered why Red Sox fans would want to stoop to the level of Cub fans. Atleast the Red Sox are competitive, and even made it to a World Series in the 80's. Year after year the Red Sox play great baseball, yet they want to compare themselves to the Cubs. I don't get it.

But they traded Babe Ruth and you just known they would win it all this season if they still had him on the team...

PaleHoseGeorge
05-09-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by 1951Campbell
....

The White Sox threw a Series, then got about 80 years of bad owners. Its a purely earthly, tawdry story based on money. No one to blame but ourselves. And that's not the stuff of legend.

Obviously I completely agree with your sentiments and I'll add yet another "Bravo!" to the chorus for 32nd & Wallace's first post. You're a good Sox Fan. Be fruitful and multiply. :smile:

The general sentiments expressed are the same as what now is known as the WSI Manifesto (http://whitesoxinteractive.com/Columnists/Bova/Welcome.htm) that you can find linked on the main page. That column was written back in 1997 and in fact was my first, Eighty Years and Waiting. Of course this is the Sox we're talking about so now it's Eighty-Seven Years and Waiting, but who's counting. :D:

Screw self-pity and to hell with self-aggrandizement. If you're a Sox Fan you know damned well why your team sucks and you're way too intelligent to think it's cute. You simply accept it, even if it means death without glory and hidden in complete anonymity.

End of story, both literally and figuratively.

I'll quibble on just one point. Though the story is "earthly, tawdry, based on money, nobody to blame but ourselves" it's precisely those elements (IMO) that make it The Greatest Story Ever Told. At least in a baseball sense.

The Cubs "curse" and the Red Sox "fate" are mere nursery rhymes by comparison.

"Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall..."

Daver
05-09-2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
But they traded Babe Ruth and you just known they would win it all this season if they still had him on the team...

The Red Sox didn't trade Ruth to the Yankees,they sold him outright for cash.

Soxfest
05-09-2004, 11:41 AM
Never thought about it that way, Sox fans do not sit around crying 24 hrs a day

SoxFan76
05-09-2004, 11:51 AM
And I find it funny how Cub fans are so sure they are making the World Series. They are pretty confident for a team who hasn't made it to the Series since 1945. I always think the Sox will do good, but I would never predict before the season started a World Series appearance.