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Hangar18
05-08-2004, 09:35 AM
The Days of Cubbie Camelot in the Chicago Media are Over. (crosses fingers) Baum and Rosenblooms morning show on 670 the score are ALSO RIPPING INTO THE TRIBUNE and SUN-TIMES coverage (or hiding of it) of Thursdays Murder outside Wrigley.

MEDIA COVERAGE and how it pertains to the BOTH Teams is the
HOT TOPIC THIS MORNING.

Theyre Laughing about how in Private Media Circles, Both papers have Been LAMBASTED for being cubbie-biased and BOTH papers now printing follow-up articles detailing the killing Being in fact Outside Wrigley. Rosenbloom ALSO ripped into the Sun-Times for initially (something I also pointed out) in their stories 1st paragraph, calling the victim a Sox Fan outright, as if to Incite something between cubs and sox fans.

Phil Rogers is on the air, and has said that the nonsense going on at Wrigley is a potential "crowd control" problem up north. Phil Rogers pointed out an interesting FACT for both radio hosts. In Regards to MEDIA COVERAGE, he asked that in the Last 2 seasons, what has the Cubs record been compared to the SOX. I was surprised at the answer .......TWO GAMES.
Rogers laughed and said that 2 games is what separates the two teams, and that One wouldnt know it, BY THE LANDSLIDE AMOUNT OF COVERAGE the cubs get. Rogers said that The Tribune helps to Oversell the CUbs, saying "were all cubs", Cubs are good, SOX are bad. Wrigley Great, Comiskey UpperDeck Bad. (Who keeps saying to Just Ignore the Media? Quit Worrying about them? )
Rosenbloom is saying BOTH PAPERS (esp his own he said) were BIASED in their coverage, and that the Cub-Times actually Reported the entire story wrong, and is Openly wondering if they
are "Reporting News" like this, is it possible that this is negatively affecting the White Sox and how theyre "perceived".

It is HILARIOUS, they are joking about interviewing a Daily Herald reporter, because they know he will give "Unbiased" opinions!!!!!!!! Is this really happening? the Chicago Media getting Called Out like this?

Cub-Times:
3 cub stories
3 sox stories
Cubune:
6 cub stories
2 sox stories

Standings since SPring Training began............
CUBS 566
SOX 381

soxnut
05-08-2004, 10:00 AM
Well Hangar, I will congratulate on all of your efforts regarding the media and biased coverage. It looks like it may be working to turn the tide.

I for one have tried for the last 20 years or so to just ignore the media because, I know they're biased, in many facets in order to promote their own agenda. And they have also "sensationalized" whatever they think is important. So I have chose to ignore them because I know the truth anyway. But for those casual observers of the media and things in general---you are definitely someone that is needed. And I thank you for helping them to wake up. Nice going. :smile:

voodoochile
05-08-2004, 10:06 AM
Add me to the list of people who used to poo-poo this stuff and now believes you have a very valid point.

I still think the Sox have enough problems of their own that need dealing with, but cannot argue with the facts anymore.

You started it, Hangar. For that I applaud you.

Hangar18
05-08-2004, 10:32 AM
One thing for sure ........ This "media" biased story is going to make one of 2 things happen. This is going to be the Wake-Up call SOX fans have been wishing for. Or Both papers may be so Knee-Deep in cubbie blue excrement, that it may be too hard to just give the SOX Equal Coverage Suddenly......or COLD TURKEY.

These next few days are going to be VERY IMPORTANT, in the big picture of the SOX. There has been a great deal of Attention Brought up to this, and being talked about. It is still VERY disheartening to still hear cub fans calling in and saying "this happened 2 hrs after a ballgame" and isnt cub-related (how in the world can one group of "fans" be that dumb? I just do not understand) still not looking at the bigger picture. Moronotti,
man hes got a chance to Chime in on something worthwhile .....
we'll see what hes really made of. As for Murphy, he will also
take swings at sox fans and just say this isnt cub-related, and we want something to moan about. Watch how Murphy come Monday, IGNORE the entire topic. I implore anyone who can, to Call Him Out (call the score 312 644 6767 and say your a CubFan and want to talk about the cubs, they'll put you on Instantly) on the Air. If the CHicago Media successfully Sweeps this Under the Rug like they did Regarding the Sammy- Corked- Bat, Dusty-Bigot-Remarks, Dusty-Evading-Steroid-Questions-Personally-Insults-Reporter, and the SOX arent looked at Equally after this ........... that Other TEam will be Stronger-Than-Ever..........And we might as well just
stop watching sports in this town .............

CHISOXFAN13
05-08-2004, 11:22 AM
Hangar: If I ever see you at Puffer's or in the Bullpen Bar, I owe you a beer because you've definitely sold me on this.

Keep up the good work, my friend.

cubhater
05-08-2004, 11:38 AM
Belated kudos to you Hangar for your diligent work pointing out the media bias in this town!

I wonder what kind of reprimand Rosey and Rogers will get from the Cubune for their comments on the Score? Who remembers when Rosey had a daily column on the front page of the sports' section before the paper buried him to the middle pages for his criticism of Cub management (i.e. the Trib)?

Looks like Rosey might need a full-time gig on the Score if the Trib bean counters dump him. It would be great if he replaces Murph!

MRKARNO
05-08-2004, 11:41 AM
I used to think that this media bit was a lost cause because of the attendence disparity logic that the Cub-times and the Cubune used, but with the Cubune's treatment of the Wrigley shooting it seems like we're starting to turn the corner. Keep up the good work!

BigFrankFan
05-08-2004, 11:49 AM
It goes without saying that if this had happened at the Cell it's front page news on both papers & they use their national media presence to get it out in the national news.

Suggesting it was a SOX fan in a non cross-town series is just plain low. Any credible that person had is gone as far as being fair & biased .

However; if you manage a fan base by both attendance & TV ratings, for every 3 SOX fans there are 5 cub fans. I find it peculiar that your season to date stats have the same ratio.

Lip Man 1
05-08-2004, 11:55 AM
A columnists at one of the two major papers has been in touch with me over the last three, four days looking for background information and such on Jerry Reinsdorf.

All I can tell you right now is that he has been attempting to get an interview with him to discuss a broad range of topics. Over the years he has tried six times to get an interview only to be turned down.

He felt that with Reinsdorf appearing on Chicago Tonight and WSCR radio lately perhaps his attitude towards the media is changing.

His attempts this time so far, have been less then successful because of some other factors involved with the team.

My point in mentioning this is because of the comments here at WSI from media types like Phil Rogers and Bob Vanderberg who say the Sox are not at co-operating with the media in such basic ways as returning phone calls.

I am not copping a plea for the Chicago media but how much of the Sox troubles in getting a 'fair shake,' from the media are their own fault? Does having a 'bunker mentality," "calling out the media" publicly and refusing to co-operate have anything to do with bad press?

I have always advocated that the Sox are in large part, responsible for their own image in this city.

Whatever happened to this type of mentality: “Eddie and I never discussed how to talk to reporters. We’ve just been ourselves. I always though Jack Kennedy was the kind of person I looked up to in that regard. He always gave the media a fair shake and understood you guys have a job to do. Without responsible people willing to divulge some accurate information, it’s hard to do it right. It was a much better approach then Nixon, who figured the media was his enemy. Doing it Kennedy’s way just makes a lot more sense to me. After all, nobody can buy the kind of advertising Chicago teams get. What other line of work finds newspapers assigning people to follow you around and write about how the business is doing every day? At Balcor, we have to hire a public relations firm to get our names in the paper. When baseball teams get that for free, it makes sense to cooperate.” – Jerry Reinsdorf . To Bob Logan. From the book Miracle On 35th Street. Pg. 154.

If you treat people like scum how do expect to get any co-operation? any breaks?

Why should the media have to put up with this type of attitude simply because in some utopian world they are supposed to be 'fair?' Reporters are people first, reporters second. Treat them like crap and you get back what you sow.

Let's put it this way...if you were trying to do your job and the person you were working with kept making things more difficult for you to do it, how would you feel?

Lip

The_Floridian
05-08-2004, 11:59 AM
Hangar,

Add me to the list of those who owe you a beer. This is fantastic news and I applaud your coverage of this from the get-go this season.

Bravo, old sport! I raise a frosty beverage in your general direction.

Dan H
05-08-2004, 11:59 AM
Some of the bad perceptions about the Sox are the fault of the team, but Hangar is to be congratulated for the thankless work he has done. After all, who really wants to read this mindless drivel of the Chicago media?

The fact is that we Sox fans have been given a bad rap on several fronts. The worst is comes from the two attacks on the field. However, everyone seems to have amnesia about the Dodger-fan incident, the time a fan tried to attack relief pitcher Randy Myers, and the fans stopping the game because they threw trash on the field because of a Myers blown save. Of course all these things happend at Wrigley. Just how are Sox fans worse?

Even if you can say the shooting was not Cubbie related, it happened on the doorstep of Wrigely Field. Remember when that idiot from AM-1000 was beaten up a couple hours after a Sox night game? That was a big story for weeks, and the issue of saftey around the South Side balllpark was talked about forever.

I can't stand the Cubbie propaganda anymore. Wrigley is not the only place to watch a major league baseball game. Losing is not lovable. And the Cubs start, which is not bad, still does not warrant the coverage they are getting. Expectations are one thing; winning is another.

I am a big critic of Jerry Reinsdorf, but I don't have much use for the Tribune Company. Until the last couple years, they have made no committment to winning. They have turned the traditional seventh inning stretch in to a running joke. Wrigley Field is a bigger tavern than the Old Comiskey Park ever was. I don't want to go near the place.

The Cubs have the talent to go the World Series. They might not have the will. What will be the spin if they blow another big chance? Are they going to blow up something else? How about the Cubbie Bear Lounge?

HebrewHammer
05-08-2004, 12:00 PM
Interesting news, now let's see how long it lasts, taking the next two games from Toronto would certainly help.

TornLabrum
05-08-2004, 12:10 PM
Hangar, I just submitted a column in which you get credit for hounding the media to the point where they've had to admit their bias (even though, of course, they are not biased).

Keep up the good work.

fusillirob1983
05-08-2004, 12:30 PM
Good job Hangar, I think it's pretty cool how the media bias has finally been recognized. Even at my school's newspaper (U of I in Champaign), I've noticed that the Cubs will consistently be a front page story and the Sox and Cardinals usually won't be. I think it'll be interesting to see what Mariotti will write, or choose not to write about this topic in his upcoming columns.

Dan H
05-08-2004, 06:48 PM
Lip, I agree with you on some things. The Sox attitude toward the media and access has cost them. The bunker mentality doesn' t work. The Sox need all the fans they can get and they need to use the media to communicate with those fans. The attitude is counter-productive.

I am not one who thinks the media has to write "positive stories." Leave that to the PR types. So I don't expect the media to "promote" the White Sox.

However, there are many times when I don't have empathy with the media even though I am a writer who wants access as well. The Sox attendance stories during the past five years have been awful. The media has done next to nothing to examine that complex issue. All it does is fan bash.

The blanket coverage of the Cubs so far? Yes, I know the Cubs are more popular and papers need to be sold. But the Cubs haven't won anything yet. And the press is going to look stupid if the Cubs belly flop again.

I am not really a media hater. I don't want pollyanna stories telling me the Sox are going to the World Series. I just don't think not liking someone is a good excuse for not being objective. And selling this Cubbie propaganda just ruins the media's credibility more.

Lip Man 1
05-08-2004, 09:13 PM
Dan:

All I can say is that you personally know all about that bunker mentality! (I still want to hear that message that Reifert left on your answering machine!!!)

My solution to the issue is simple...start kissing the Chicago media's asses (like the Cubs do) and things will change in a hurry.

Again, unfortunately, what's right has little to do with this (covering the Sox because they deserve coverage, are in first place, because it's the correct thing for the media to do and so forth...)

The Sox may not like it but you have to fight fire with fire. If nothing else a 'bribe' here and there is just doing things the 'Chicago way.' (ahhh for the days of the original Mayor Daley...)

Seriously it's time (no pun intended) for the Sox to start cultivating a good relationship with folks like Vanderberg, Sullivan, McGrath and so forth. Media types who really are Sox fans and have been for a number of years.

Here's an example of the wrong way to do it told to me personally by the media person in question.

A few years ago a member of the media who is a Sox fan of long standing was at the park on the day the team honored Hall Of Famer Ted "Double Duty" Radcliff. Before the game, this person was talking with Ted inside of the main entrance, waiting for things to start. Jerry Reinsdorf himself comes up to the two of them and says to Radcliff...'don't talk to this guy...he's a Cubs fan!

The media person was angry and embarassed and after Reinsdorf left he apologized to Ted for Uncle Jerry's behavior.

When I communicated with the individual I asked if Uncle Jerry was joking. The person said no he wasn't which is why my acquaintance was so angry about the incident. This person swore to me that somehow, someway they were going to 'get' Reinsdorf over it.

Now that's the correct way to do media relations!

To be a public trust and conduct business like this with the people who can help make or break you is absolutely insane.

Lip

TornLabrum
05-08-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Dan:

All I can say is that you personally know all about that bunker mentality! (I still want to hear that message that Reifert left on your answering machine!!!)

My solution to the issue is simple...start kissing the Chicago media's asses (like the Cubs do) and things will change in a hurry.

Again, unfortunately, what's right has little to do with this (covering the Sox because they deserve coverage, are in first place, because it's the correct thing for the media to do and so forth...)

The Sox may not like it but you have to fight fire with fire. If nothing else a 'bribe' here and there is just doing things the 'Chicago way.' (ahhh for the days of the original Mayor Daley...)

Seriously it's time (no pun intended) for the Sox to start cultivating a good relationship with folks like Vanderberg, Sullivan, McGrath and so forth. Media types who really are Sox fans and have been for a number of years.

Here's an example of the wrong way to do it told to me personally by the media person in question.

A few years ago a member of the media who is a Sox fan of long standing was at the park on the day the team honored Hall Of Famer Ted "Double Duty" Radcliff. Before the game, this person was talking with Ted inside of the main entrance, waiting for things to start. Jerry Reinsdorf himself comes up to the two of them and says to Radcliff...'don't talk to this guy...he's a Cubs fan!

The media person was angry and embarassed and after Reinsdorf left he apologized to Ted for Uncle Jerry's behavior.

When I communicated with the individual I asked if Uncle Jerry was joking. The person said no he wasn't which is why my acquaintance was so angry about the incident. This person swore to me that somehow, someway they were going to 'get' Reinsdorf over it.

Now that's the correct way to do media relations!

To be a public trust and conduct business like this with the people who can help make or break you is absolutely insane.

Lip

Here is something that scared me a couple of weeks ago. The day after Rob "People Person" Gallas resigned he appeared on Spike O'Dells morning show on WGN radio. (Edwards and Lujack were playing something I didn't care for and Murphy was either talking about the Cubs or Bears or was in a commercial at the time, so there wasn't much on.)

After Gallas took credit for inventing baseball and claiming that he never heard of Abner Doubleday, the conversation ended and O'Dell called him one of the great guys in the business.

A few days later I talked to a few Sox employees, some of whom confirmed what I had always heard about him, which was the antithesis of O'Dells evaluation.

All I know is that the one time I was introduced to Gallas, he gave me a perfunctory hello and ignored me the rest of the time. A real people person. You'd think since it was SoxFest and that I was wearing an exhibitor's badge, he might have been friendlier, but that was Rob.

Dan H
05-09-2004, 07:43 AM
Lip and Hal;

I amnot arguing any of those points. Media and public relations have been failures of this organization. No one gets anywhere by insulting and fighting the media. If you want any kind of positive treatment from the reporters, you have cultivate a relationship. Not kiss their collective ass, but maintain a relationship even when that relationship is strained. The Sox are terrible at doing that. And Hal, as an exhibitor at Sox Fest, I was ignored by Rob Gallas as well.

I have one major problem with the media and that is the constant attacks on Sox fans over attendance. Showing pictures of empty seats do not tell the story. But the media is more interested in insulting Sox fans than talking to them.

But finally I think the Sox are their own worst enemies. The team doesn't seem to understand that you have to pick your fights, not put a moat around your players. There are probably some real good stories that could come out of that clubhouse if the Sox weren't so short sighted about access. The Sox think they are vicitms. What really has happened is that they have run angry and bitter ads, and have said stupid things. That is not the media's fault.

Hangar may be spending too much time counting these stories but he is a fan and reader. He has a right to make demands on getting information from the newspaper. It is a basic right. The media can ignore the demands. But readers can cancel subscriptions.

TornLabrum
05-09-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Dan H
Lip and Hal;

I amnot arguing any of those points. Media and public relations have been failures of this organization. No one gets anywhere by insulting and fighting the media. If you want any kind of positive treatment from the reporters, you have cultivate a relationship. Not kiss their collective ass, but maintain a relationship even when that relationship is strained. The Sox are terrible at doing that. And Hal, as an exhibitor at Sox Fest, I was ignored by Rob Gallas as well.

I have one major problem with the media and that is the constant attacks on Sox fans over attendance. Showing pictures of empty seats do not tell the story. But the media is more interested in insulting Sox fans than talking to them.

But finally I think the Sox are their own worst enemies. The team doesn't seem to understand that you have to pick your fights, not put a moat around your players. There are probably some real good stories that could come out of that clubhouse if the Sox weren't so short sighted about access. The Sox think they are vicitms. What really has happened is that they have run angry and bitter ads, and have said stupid things. That is not the media's fault.

Hangar may be spending too much time counting these stories but he is a fan and reader. He has a right to make demands on getting information from the newspaper. It is a basic right. The media can ignore the demands. But readers can cancel subscriptions.

Dan, we've talked and you know how I feel about how the Sox deal with the media. In my son's words, it's a big cluster ****.

Still, the Sox have fans, whether they go to the park or not. When the Sox were outdrawing the Cubs by a larger ratio than the Cubs now outdraw the Sox, the media were very careful about giving equal time to both clubs.

Up until the Cubs great choke year of 2003 (and Hangar's subsequent rubbing their noses in the discrepancies rather than keeping his comments in-house here), the papers were very quick to talk about equal column inches or at least numbers of articles to any who questioned their fairness in coverage.

However, since Hangar has started emailing columnists and editors, and others here have done the same thing, it is becoming a story, and now that they are afraid somebody might actually check up on whether or not their coverage is balanced, we get the response, "Why of course we do more Cubs stories. They are more popular!" They do this in hopes since most of us have very short attention spans, we will forget that until a week or two ago, they were saying just the opposite.

And I'm sorry, but NONE of that has to do with Rob Gallas or Jerry Reinsdorf. What it has to do with is laziness on the part of reporters.

If reporters weren't lazy, don't you think they'd be questioning how Sammy Sosa or Barry Bonds or Jason Giambi became musclebound hulks virtually overnight and maybe do some investigating like real reporters do? If reporters weren't lazy, don't you think they'd come up with more than, "Sox attendance is horrible" every goddamn April when attendance is always low?

No, it's just easier to join the Sammy lovefest in that Mecca known as Wrigleyville while talking about the Sox "bad" neighborhood and the "ball mall," and then use lack of popularity as an excuse for all the negativity about the Sox.

If these guys were halfway honest, they'd write about how Jerry Reinsdorf slighted them. They'd talk about how the Sox have mistreated them...or maybe if they don't want to make themselves the story, just simply tell someone else their tale of woe.

One problem with reporting sports nowadays, baseball in particular, is that radio and TV are so all-pervasive and now with the internet, we don't need the game story. Instead what the papers rely on are the sideshow stories, not what's going on under the main tent. They have to do at least 162 of these per year. Maybe the Sox don't cooperate with them in getting these stories.

But from what I've learned from the few people I know who were in journalsim, that means you have to dig to get your story. Instead these guys just trot out the attendance and ball mall stories for their hundred-and-fifth recylcing. And when that doesn't work, it's easy to write an article about the terrible fans.

Frankly, I'm sick of their lazy-assed reporting.

fusillirob1983
05-09-2004, 09:34 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head.

BigFrankFan
05-09-2004, 12:06 PM
JR, sell the team to Comcast & all the problems will go away.
I guarantee within 3 yrs of a sale to Comcast the SOX will avg better than 2 million in attendance.

Aside from this some of the fans which boycotted the SOX since 1994 are ready to come back. This is certainly the year for the SOX to win them back. I've talked to my friends in this category personally & they have suggested they'll go to games this year. So maybe the JR curse upon the team is weakening.