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misty60481
05-08-2004, 08:17 AM
I hope this was a one time thing with Garland I know he was upset when JM pulled him in games last year but we cant let him blow leads in one inning, I think Ozzie will keep an eye on him and if he starts to show signs of trouble go to bull pen -- cant blame him
Is Jon losing his concentration??

voodoochile
05-08-2004, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by misty60481
I hope this was a one time thing with Garland I know he was upset when JM pulled him in games last year but we cant let him blow leads in one inning, I think Ozzie will keep an eye on him and if he starts to show signs of trouble go to bull pen -- cant blame him
Is Jon losing his concentration??

Well, he did last night for one or two moments and it cost him badly. Those pitches that ended up in the seats were just plain F-A-T (not phat).

In general he has been much improved and it is tough to call it a trend until it continues for several games. So far he has been just fine.

Mickster
05-08-2004, 09:21 AM
Garland's problem is that he always hasn't been able to pitch without giving up a big inning. As voodoo said above, it really hasn't been the case this year. Let's hope that this is the only time we see this type of inning all year.

DrummerGeorgefan
05-08-2004, 09:36 AM
I think it might be a concentration problem. IIRC, most of the big innings Jon gives up come in the 5th or 6th, and usually after he has thrown good stuff. IMO, maybe he gets too comfortable and startings hanging his breaking pitches or like last night, keeping a change-up belt high.

batmanZoSo
05-08-2004, 10:28 AM
You guys summed it up pretty well. Garland just doesn't have it yet. He keeps making one or two huge mistakes in an otherwise solid outing. He's only a handful of pitches away from being 3-1 with a ERA under 4--I think he's 2-2? now. And if you take away those stupid homers he served up to the Yankees with two strikes he looks even better. I know you can't just take facts of life away, but this kinda shows you how close he is. I guess pitching smarts, like power with some hitters, is the last thing to develop...

voodoochile
05-08-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
You guys summed it up pretty well. Garland just doesn't have it yet. He keeps making one or two huge mistakes in an otherwise solid outing. He's only a handful of pitches away from being 3-1 with a ERA under 4--I think he's 2-2? now. And if you take away those stupid homers he served up to the Yankees with two strikes he looks even better. I know you can't just take facts of life away, but this kinda shows you how close he is. I guess pitching smarts, like power with some hitters, is the last thing to develop...

Still 2-1, Politte took the loss last night.

batmanZoSo
05-08-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Still 2-1, Politte took the loss last night.

Oh yeah we did tie it after Garland left.

CubKilla
05-08-2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Mickster
Garland's problem is that he always hasn't been able to pitch without giving up a big inning. As voodoo said above, it really hasn't been the case this year. Let's hope that this is the only time we see this type of inning all year.

DING-DING-DING!

Garland is an average pitcher at best. I'm sick and tired of Sox fans saying we need to give Jon more time or that this season is THE season where Jon needs to step up. He'll never step up because he's a mediocre hack. At times he looks like Cy Young. Other times, he looks like Ricky Vaughan before the eye problem was diagnosed. The big inning has killed Garland throughout his career.

SoxFan76
05-08-2004, 12:03 PM
Garland looked damn good through 4, or 5? innings. Basically, up until those HR's, he looked awesome. How many guys got sawed off or hit soft comebackers to the mound? He held Delgado to ground balls to the right side, and that's what you gotta do with the shift on.

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter if he can't close the deal. I want to say he's young, which he is, but what does it matter? He's been in the league for too long now to use age as an excuse. If he doesn't get it now, I don't think he ever will.

Lip Man 1
05-08-2004, 12:04 PM
Last night was Garland's 100th career major league start. In today's (Saturday's) Daily Southtown Ozzie and Olivo have comments about him and the words 'concentration,' and 'focus' are used.

Garland's reply was that he didn't think that was the case, that he didn't have his best stuff Friday and was constantly in trouble.

After five years I don't think it's likely he's ever going to have the 'break out,' season some are prediciting for him. Now he may eventually get it but by then he'll be in another uniform.

Lip

jeremyb1
05-08-2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
DING-DING-DING!

Garland is an average pitcher at best. I'm sick and tired of Sox fans saying we need to give Jon more time or that this season is THE season where Jon needs to step up. He'll never step up because he's a mediocre hack. At times he looks like Cy Young. Other times, he looks like Ricky Vaughan before the eye problem was diagnosed. The big inning has killed Garland throughout his career.

I'm not sure people understand how valuable an "average" pitcher along the lines of Garland is. If he was nothing special, pitchers in his mold would fill the fifth spot in most rotations and guys like Wright or Rick Helling wouldn't be in the league.

SSN721
05-08-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I'm not sure people understand how valuable an "average" pitcher along the lines of Garland is. If he was nothing special, pitchers in his mold would fill the fifth spot in most rotations and guys like Wright or Rick Helling wouldn't be in the league.

It doesnt happen that often, but I agree with you wholeheartedly jeremy. I beleive that Garland is extraordinarily valuble to this team. If the majors only had about 20 teams then he would probably be around average but considering the diluted pitching talent in the majors I would say he is at least above average with potential of being better.

batmanZoSo
05-08-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Last night was Garland's 100th career major league start. In today's (Saturday's) Daily Southtown Ozzie and Olivo have comments about him and the words 'concentration,' and 'focus' are used.

Garland's reply was that he didn't think that was the case, that he didn't have his best stuff Friday and was constantly in trouble.

After five years I don't think it's likely he's ever going to have the 'break out,' season some are prediciting for him. Now he may eventually get it but by then he'll be in another uniform.

Lip

Pitchers have til 27 to do something. Before 25 you can't expect much. He's been disappointing but he still has some time left. And he is better than he was last year.

SoxxoS
05-08-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Pitchers have til 27 to do something. Before 25 you can't expect much. He's been disappointing but he still has some time left. And he is better than he was last year.

Why do you say "27?" Why not "28" or "26" ?

It's different in Garland's case. You should mature after 100 starts...I mean, come on, when does it kick in?

batmanZoSo
05-08-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Why do you say "27?" Why not "28" or "26" ?

It's different in Garland's case. You should mature after 100 starts...I mean, come on, when does it kick in?

Because it's widely believed that 27 is the age where a pitcher should come into his own, it's not an arbitrary number, history backs that. That's like his peak age. If he doesn't become great like expected by then, he almost surely never will. That doesn't mean he can suck until 26, and he hasn't, he's improved from last year.
.
100 starts is like three years...Garland came up when he was 20. Nowhere NEAR ready. This last start should've been something like his 70th if he were in an organization that wasn't so poorly run it had to constantly bring guys up before they're ready.

CubKilla
05-08-2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Why do you say "27?" Why not "28" or "26" ?

It's different in Garland's case. You should mature after 100 starts...I mean, come on, when does it kick in?

It's not going to kick in in the case of Jon Garland. What we've seen is all we're ever gonna get from JG. JG would be a number 4 or 5 on a team with above average pitching.

Daver
05-08-2004, 09:41 PM
Randy Johnson was not exactly a lights out pitcher his first five years at this level,he turned out to be a pretty good pitcher though.

Mohoney
05-09-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Garland's problem is that he always hasn't been able to pitch without giving up a big inning. As voodoo said above, it really hasn't been the case this year. Let's hope that this is the only time we see this type of inning all year.

He also doesn't seem to grasp how to pitch with a lead. The big innings he gives up always seem to follow an inning when we spot him a few runs. Like the Cleveland game. We spot him a 4-0 1st inning lead, and he gives 3 runs right back, killing the momentum.

It just seems like he doesn't fully attack hitters when he has a lead.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-09-2004, 07:54 PM
well until we go to the starting pitcher store and pick us up some hardcore nolan ryan-sandy koufax model we're stuck with the guy. he has his good days and his bad. mediocre. he fits right in. we'll be fine