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View Full Version : If Valentin starts, I lose faith in Ozzie


SD Scott 7
05-06-2004, 06:31 PM
Valentin is set to come back up to the White Sox. His rehab stint consisted of him going 1 for 27 with 13 strikeouts! When Valentin returns, Guillen said will use Juan Uribe and Willie Harris at second base. He said he plans to play Uribe a little more than Harris. To me, this is just incredible. Why would we bench a hot hitting Juan Uribe that is an upgrade defensively as well? This better not turn into a Royce Clayton situation where Valentin is the man out at short stop because he's getting paid more than his other infielders vying for his position. Ozzie.......make the smart move!

CubKilla
05-06-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by SD Scott 7
Valentin is set to come back up to the White Sox. His rehab stint consisted of him going 1 for 27 with 13 strikeouts! When Valentin returns, Guillen said will use Jose Uribe and Willie Harris at second base. He said he plans to play Uribe a little more than Harris. To me, this is just incredible. Why would we bench a hot hitting Juan Uribe that is an upgrade defensively as well? This better not turn into a Royce Clayton situation where Valentin is the man out at short stop because he's getting paid more than his other infielders vying for his position. Ozzie.......make the smart move!

Uribe, thus far, has earned the starts. Platoon Valentin with Harris and when Valentin plays, Uribe is at 2B and when Harris plays, Uribe is at SS.

cheeses_h_rice
05-06-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by SD Scott 7
Valentin is set to come back up to the White Sox. His rehab stint consisted of him going 1 for 27 with 13 strikeouts! When Valentin returns, Guillen said will use Jose Uribe and Willie Harris at second base. He said he plans to play Uribe a little more than Harris. To me, this is just incredible. Why would we bench a hot hitting Juan Uribe that is an upgrade defensively as well? This better not turn into a Royce Clayton situation where Valentin is the man out at short stop because he's getting paid more than his other infielders vying for his position. Ozzie.......make the smart move!

Who's this Jose Uribe you speak of? Juan's brother?

:)

SoxEd
05-06-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Who's this Jose Uribe you speak of? Juan's brother?

:)

I'd platoon him with Valentine... :D:

SD Scott 7
05-06-2004, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Who's this Jose Uribe you speak of? Juan's brother?

:)

:hawk
"Jose Uribe......YES!"

:)

Palehose13
05-06-2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by SD Scott 7
Valentin is set to come back up to the White Sox. His rehab stint consisted of him going 1 for 27 with 13 strikeouts! When Valentin returns, Guillen said will use Juan Uribe and Willie Harris at second base. He said he plans to play Uribe a little more than Harris. To me, this is just incredible. Why would we bench a hot hitting Juan Uribe that is an upgrade defensively as well? This better not turn into a Royce Clayton situation where Valentin is the man out at short stop because he's getting paid more than his other infielders vying for his position. Ozzie.......make the smart move!

I think losing faith in Ozzie is a little drastic, but I do understand what you are saying. I would put Jose at SS, Uribe at 2b, and Harris in CF.

Isn't funny how none of us want Uribe, the joke of the offseason, benched?

NonetheLoaiza
05-06-2004, 07:48 PM
this is just a no win situation for the sox right now. uribe has the hot bat. willie is starting to get hot. and well, valentin is making the cash. we are going to have to suffer for about 2 weeks until someone is absolutely terrible.

i would definitely go with willie in CF. aaron is doing absolutely nothing.

misty60481
05-06-2004, 08:14 PM
Got to have that bat of Jose in line=up I think he might get hot put Uribe at 2nd and Harris to Charlotte

SoxFan76
05-06-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by misty60481
Got to have that bat of Jose in line=up I think he might get hot put Uribe at 2nd and Harris to Charlotte

You must be kidding. Seriously, is this a joke?

I can respect wanting Jose in the lineup, after all he hits 25 homers a year. He is pretty good defensively, but you have to play the best guys on the field. Right now, Juan and Willie are the best options. Send Willie to Charlotte?!? I know before the season started Willie was not very popular, but he has proven he can play. He still has room to go as far as patience at the plate, but man when he gets on the bases, he just causes so much havoc. A guy like Willie is such a good weapon to throw off a pitcher. His precense alone makes the pitcher think more about him on first than the batter, which makes whoever bats after Willie that much better.

Ok, I made him sound like the greatest leadoff hitter of all time, and Willie is definitely not that. But I definitely want him getting his playing time.

jeremyb1
05-06-2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Uribe, thus far, has earned the starts. Platoon Valentin with Harris and when Valentin plays, Uribe is at 2B and when Harris plays, Uribe is at SS.

Well Harris and Valentin both struggle against lefties so I don't understand how you'd platoon them. It'd make a lot of sense to platoon Rowand and Harris in CF and play Valentin and Uribe in the infield. Harris is hitless in 13 at bats against lefties this season compared to .315/.366/.397 against righties. Rowand by comparison has hit 298/.356/.463 against lefties the last three seasons. You could also play Harris everday and platoon Valentin and Rowand but I probably wouldn't.

The other half of this is since when is Jose worthless? Should we mail Uribe his MVP trophy now because I'm not so sure he's going to continue hitting .380. Jose has hit .264/.337/.522 against right handed pitching from '01-'03 and I for one think that combined with what has at times been gold glove calliber defense is extremely valuable. To bench him for Harris is completely assanine.

jeremyb1
05-06-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
You must be kidding. Seriously, is this a joke?

I can respect wanting Jose in the lineup, after all he hits 25 homers a year. He is pretty good defensively, but you have to play the best guys on the field. Right now, Juan and Willie are the best options. Send Willie to Charlotte?!? I know before the season started Willie was not very popular, but he has proven he can play. He still has room to go as far as patience at the plate, but man when he gets on the bases, he just causes so much havoc. A guy like Willie is such a good weapon to throw off a pitcher. His precense alone makes the pitcher think more about him on first than the batter, which makes whoever bats after Willie that much better.

Ok, I made him sound like the greatest leadoff hitter of all time, and Willie is definitely not that. But I definitely want him getting his playing time.

Do you have to hit at all to play if you can run? Harris is below average in every offensive category except for steals, what's so great about him?

WSox8404
05-06-2004, 09:30 PM
I have a solution.......trade Valentin for something.....anything.

Hoops McCann
05-06-2004, 09:32 PM
A friend of mine told me Bruce Levine on ESPN1000 mentioned the possibility of a Valentin for Freddy Garcia trade...was that for real, or was that a scenario invented by Mac, Jurko, & Harry?

I love what Valentin has done for the Sox, but I'd take that deal.

SoxFan76
05-06-2004, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Do you have to hit at all to play if you can run? Harris is below average in every offensive category except for steals, what's so great about him?

He CAN hit though. I don't know, I still have faith in him. I still think he can hit .275 and raise that OBP. The speed is an added bonus. A big bonus at that.

JRIG
05-06-2004, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by WSox8404
I have a solution.......trade Valentin for something.....anything.

And then when Harris stops the one-week hot streak he's on, Kelly Dransfeldt can play 2nd base.

Good idea!

Hoops McCann
05-06-2004, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
He CAN hit though. I don't know, I still have faith in him. I still think he can hit .275 and raise that OBP. The speed is an added bonus. A big bonus at that.

I don't think Willie brings much to the table besides speed, and that's not enough in my opinion. If he ever wants to entertain thoughts of becoming a quality leadoff hitter, he must learn better plate discipline and improve his decision making. 8 walks to 15 strikeouts is an awful ratio for a guy with his speed, and I haven't seen any signs that he going to improve on that.

With regard to his speed, it's worthless if the guy can't get on base. He has only scored 9 runs this year, which is good for 10th on the team. That's not gonna cut it, and is borderline pathetic. People think Rickey Henderson's speed was what made him a great leadoff hitter, but that wasn't it. Getting on base at a high percentage was what made him a great leadoff hitter, and if Willie can't get on base more, I'm comfortable with him getting splinters in his arse.

SoxFan76
05-06-2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Hoops McCann
I don't think Willie brings much to the table besides speed, and that's not enough in my opinion. If he ever wants to entertain thoughts of becoming a quality leadoff hitter, he must learn better plate discipline and improve his decision making. 8 walks to 15 strikeouts is an awful ratio for a guy with his speed, and I haven't seen any signs that he going to improve on that.

With regard to his speed, it's worthless if the guy can't get on base. He has only scored 9 runs this year, which is good for 10th on the team. That's not gonna cut it, and is borderline pathetic. People think Rickey Henderson's speed was what made him a great leadoff hitter, but that wasn't it. Getting on base at a high percentage was what made him a great leadoff hitter, and if Willie can't get on base more, I'm comfortable with him getting splinters in his arse.

Good point, but the whole reason I started ranting about Willie is because somebody said he should go to Charlotte. I definitely don't agree with that, and I think most will agree with me. Atleast at this point, because there are no better options.

jeremyb1
05-06-2004, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
He CAN hit though. I don't know, I still have faith in him. I still think he can hit .275 and raise that OBP. The speed is an added bonus. A big bonus at that.

I think the best case scenario is that he hits .275 with a .330 OBP as he's doing now but the problem is that's what Jose does and he does it with a .500+ SLG whereas Harris has no power.

Petch
05-06-2004, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by misty60481
Got to have that bat of Jose in line=up I think he might get hot put Uribe at 2nd and Harris to Charlotte


This is insanity at its best. First of all, you don't even need to send Willie down. You would send Kelly D. Secondly, why would you bench your players that are hot? You wouldn't!

Hoops McCann
05-06-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
Good point, but the whole reason I started ranting about Willie is because somebody said he should go to Charlotte. I definitely don't agree with that, and I think most will agree with me. Atleast at this point, because there are no better options.

I don't think he should be sent to Charlotte either, I just don't want him in the everyday lineup. Until he improves his batting eye and decision making, his value is maximized as a late innings pinch runner.

ASUSOXGRL
05-07-2004, 12:18 AM
If Valentin had been playing short stop against Baltimore in the game where Uribe made that amazing play to end the game (after Koch got himself into yet another bind) we would have lost for sure. Valentin would have dropped the ball and tripped over himself.

batmanZoSo
05-07-2004, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by ASUSOXGRL
If Valentin had been playing short stop against Baltimore in the game where Uribe made that amazing play to end the game (after Koch got himself into yet another bind) we would have lost for sure. Valentin would have dropped the ball and tripped over himself.

Wrong.

SoxxoS
05-07-2004, 01:24 AM
We won't know so there is no reason to argue over it.

jabrch
05-07-2004, 04:32 AM
Simple solution is that all three stay in the lineup and Rowand gets benched. Harris moves to CF.

doublem23
05-07-2004, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
And then when Harris stops the one-week hot streak he's on, Kelly Dransfeldt can play 2nd base.

Good idea!

Dransfeldt/Harris at 2nd with a 5th starting pitcher works for me.

Lip Man 1
05-07-2004, 11:20 AM
ASU:

You mean like where I posted that if Valentin was in the lineup he would have caught the ball Dransfelt blew in the 4th inning against Baltimore? (some 'fans' took umbrage over it...)

Just one question people. Maybe I've got this all wrong...what is Willie Harris career major league batting average?

Can someone please rationally explain to me this unholy fascination with a guy who has had all of three weeks where he's hitting decently? What's his average .265????

Seriously why is this guy considered by some to be a 'must' for the lineup?

Lip

Mickster
05-07-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Seriously why is this guy considered by some to be a 'must' for the lineup?

Agreed. Willie has shown me nothing. Jose and Uribe up the middle would do just fine by me. For every one of his 3 for 5 games, I can show 2 of his 0-5 games where he just simply looks HORRIBLE and overmatched at the plate. Speed is supposed to be his biggest weapon but he has only 5 SB. What really did it for me was the 1st & 3rd bunt attempt in the 9th inning last week. ***! I lost all respect for him at that moment.

SoxxoS
05-07-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
ASU:

You mean like where I posted that if Valentin was in the lineup he would have caught the ball Dransfelt blew in the 4th inning against Baltimore? (some 'fans' took umbrage over it...)

Just one question people. Maybe I've got this all wrong...what is Willie Harris career major league batting average?

Can someone please rationally explain to me this unholy fascination with a guy who has had all of three weeks where he's hitting decently? What's his average .265????

Seriously why is this guy considered by some to be a 'must' for the lineup?

Lip

I don't think he is a "must" Lip. I just think he deserves a chance to show he can keep hitting like he has been. You have to admit he looks completely different up there than 4 weeks ago. He is taking pitches now. He is hitting the ball hard. He is just playing solid. He got a bad rap at the start of the season...so he deserves this playing time to prove he can be a major leaguer.

joecrede
05-07-2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I don't think he is a "must" Lip. I just think he deserves a chance to show he can keep hitting like he has been. You have to admit he looks completely different up there than 4 weeks ago. He is taking pitches now. He is hitting the ball hard. He is just playing solid. He got a bad rap at the start of the season...so he deserves this playing time to prove he can be a major leaguer.

Harris is not a better player than Valentin though.

pudge
05-07-2004, 12:41 PM
I think there's WAY too much faith in here for Juan Uribe after ONE great month. You gotta get Valentin back in the lineup and back in the swing of things... Playing Uribe and 2B more often than Harris, as Ozzie has stated, is the perfect solution.

SoxxoS
05-07-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Harris is not a better player than Valentin though.

He is right now. That is what this is about...you want the two "hottest" guys on the field at the same time. Right now, it's Uribe and Harris.

jeremyb1
05-07-2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I don't think he is a "must" Lip. I just think he deserves a chance to show he can keep hitting like he has been. You have to admit he looks completely different up there than 4 weeks ago. He is taking pitches now. He is hitting the ball hard. He is just playing solid. He got a bad rap at the start of the season...so he deserves this playing time to prove he can be a major leaguer.

Lip, for one we're in complete agreement here.

Why does Harris deserve a chance to prove he can continue hitting well while Jose doesn't deserve a chance to continue to produce well as he has for a number of seasons? I agree with you it'd be nice to see what Harris can do but sometimes guys find themselves on the outside looking in. I think it would've been really nice if guys like Rauch, Reed, and Diaz could've started the season on the team so we could see what they are capable of but management ruled the time wasn't right. Uribe, Harris, and Valentin can't all play everday (unless Harris goes to CF fulltime which won't likely happen) and I think it's silly to let Harris play just because we're curious to see what he can do when its a virtual certainty that Jose is the more productive player.

joecrede
05-07-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
He is right now. That is what this is about...you want the two "hottest" guys on the field at the same time. Right now, it's Uribe and Harris.

I can live with the idea of playing the "hotter" of Uribe and Harris. Valentin's lefty power is too important to the lineup as presently constituted to have him sitting.

SoxxoS
05-07-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I can live with the idea of playing the "hotter" of Uribe and Harris. Valentin's lefty power is too important to the lineup as presently constituted to have him sitting.

You mean you "can't" live with the idea?

I can't live with the idea of thinking a guy is going to magically hit .275 in the majors after he can't hit AAA pitching.

NonetheLoaiza
05-07-2004, 02:19 PM
hoops mccann...just wanted to say...awesome name

kermittheefrog
05-07-2004, 02:30 PM
I can't believe how short sighted you guys are. Valenin is a good hitter since 2000 who had a bad rehab stint, Willie is a terrible hitter until last week. Who should start? Willie! Does not compute. The best idea so far as been Jeremy's idea of Valentin at short, Uribe at second and a Rowand/Harris platoon in center. I don't understand why the Sox management can't recognize Rowand's ineptitude against right handed pitching. Rowand would actually be a very nice bench player if the Sox could just recognize what he can do (hit lefties, play good D) and what he can't (hit righties).

Foulke You
05-07-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I can't believe how short sighted you guys are. Valenin is a good hitter since 2000 who had a bad rehab stint, Willie is a terrible hitter until last week. Who should start? Willie! Does not compute. The best idea so far as been Jeremy's idea of Valentin at short, Uribe at second and a Rowand/Harris platoon in center.

Agree 100% Kermit. It's baffling to me how short a memory some Sox fans have. They'll all be back on the Valentin bandwagon as soon as he jacks a couple HRs in this series against Toronto. Harris has done nothing offensively to start over Valentin in my book. And even though Harris has been better offensively, I wouldn't necessarily say he has been "hot" at the plate. Starting Jose is a no brainer.

basilesox
05-07-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by SD Scott 7
Valentin is set to come back up to the White Sox. His rehab stint consisted of him going 1 for 27 with 13 strikeouts! When Valentin returns, Guillen said will use Juan Uribe and Willie Harris at second base. He said he plans to play Uribe a little more than Harris. To me, this is just incredible. Why would we bench a hot hitting Juan Uribe that is an upgrade defensively as well? This better not turn into a Royce Clayton situation where Valentin is the man out at short stop because he's getting paid more than his other infielders vying for his position. Ozzie.......make the smart move!

This is why Ozzie Guillen is currently the manager of the Chicago Whitesox and you are not. A rehab stint in Charlotte means absolutely nothing...... Jose Valentin is a proven ML Hitter, while Harris is not. Uribe on the other hand looks like he is on the way to becoming a proven Major League hitter, but it will take a little more than a month before you can say that he has achieved that status.

If Uribe can put together a solid year he will reach Jose Valentin's status (that of a proven MLB Hitter)........Since Ozzie Guillen has played in the Majors he obviously realizes this which is probably the basis of his decision......The Right decision.

fquaye149
05-07-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Do you have to hit at all to play if you can run? Harris is below average in every offensive category except for steals, what's so great about him?

willie may be below avg. in every category but steals, (although i might say defense is another category he is at LEAST adequate in)

but valentin is below avg in every category but power, and i suppose one might say he's above average in strikeouts and mustache growing


so what's the better choice: sacrifice power for speed, or vice versa? Especially considering OUR lineup has a plethora of power and a dearth of speed, and the fact that willie's ceiling has not yet been reached while jose really has nowhere to go but downhill

oh but wait, i forgot the intangibles and the completely valid stat (right, moneyballer?) of clutch hitting . . . my bad




edit: this is slanted considering i dislike jose at shortstop, especially since his defense (what i consider his strong point) is probably inferior to j.uribe's.

however. . .everyone thinks he's a great hitter and a lefty powerhourse, BUT

in the last three seasons he hasn't cracked .260 at the plate, his obp was .336, .311, and .313 respectively. yes he averaged about 26 and a half homers and 72 rbi's, but he also averaged 109 k's.
His OPS has been .846, .790, and .776 respectively, which is fairly poor for a so-called power hitter.

He is murder against lefties and our division is heavily lefty.

I know a lot of you love him for his clutch heroics. . .but i guess i can't justify making a poor statistical decision based on past clutch hitting.

I say let willie play, his speed will make up for what we give up in jose's power.

Even if we could be assured that we were getting the Jose from last year I would still stick with willie but his 11 strikeouts (!!!) in AAA (!!!) kind of disturb me.

basilesox
05-07-2004, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
You mean you "can't" live with the idea?

I can't live with the idea of thinking a guy is going to magically hit .275 in the majors after he can't hit AAA pitching.

I can't live with the idea that people actually think Jose's numbers in a rehab stint actually mean something.

Why do you think teams send their players to "rehab stints"...When you have an injury and you are not playing baseball or even at times "physically active" for a period of time you are going to be rusty for a short period of time. If his poor hitting continues for weeks or months then you have a problem.

basilesox
05-07-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
You mean you "can't" live with the idea?

I can't live with the idea of thinking a guy is going to magically hit .275 in the majors after he can't hit AAA pitching.

I can't live with the idea that yet another thread has started saying that Valentin should be benched.

Up until about a week ago I had tremendous respect for the knowledge of most of the Sox fans on this sight. Because of all these threads and the support for their "insanely stupid" content, I have lost alot of that respect.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-07-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
I can't live with the idea that yet another thread has started saying that Valentin should be benched.

Up until about a week ago I had tremendous respect for the knowledge of most of the Sox fans on this sight. Because of all these threads and the support for their "insanely stupid" content, I have lost alot of that respect.

Wee-Willie is flavor of the week for a small minority of posters. The rest of us would counter their silly posts if we had the slightest doubt this problem will work itself out in very short order.

Harris is worthless if he can't get on base. He doesn't know how to take a walk and he can't bunt to save his life. His stick has been a bad joke going all the way back to double-A. He has all the makings of becoming the worst leadoff man in the league if the Sox are dumb enough to give him 500+ plate appearances. I don't know if Valentin deserves regular playing time, but he certainly has a history of producing that Wee-Willie can only approach in the wettest dreams of Wee-Willie's supporters.

This will all work out soon enough. I'm glad to have problems like having too many ballplayers for positions in the everyday line up. It's infinitely better than not having enough.

pjthesox13
05-07-2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
I can't live with the idea that yet another thread has started saying that Valentin should be benched.

Up until about a week ago I had tremendous respect for the knowledge of most of the Sox fans on this sight. Because of all these threads and the support for their "insanely stupid" content, I have lost alot of that respect.

Actually I thought most of the threads up to a day or so ago, were talking about Harris being benched. Valentin is coming back and we all know he will play but as White Sox fans we know and love our team but we also want to look at them critically. It's kind of our job. We all just get nervous because we like that we're winning and don't want a player who is in a slump mess that up for us either off. or def. So IMO, Valentin will play but my one concern is that is best days are behind him so hopefully he can get in there and do his job. That is all I ask. Uribe should not leave the lineup and I don't care if it's only one month of good hitting I think he is trying to prove himself and doing a heck of a job in doing so.

JRIG
05-07-2004, 05:23 PM
Valentin is starting tonight, batting second, at SS.

Uribe leadoff at 2B.

Wee Willie finds himself on the bench.

TheRockinMT
05-07-2004, 05:24 PM
Jose is the SS. I think Uribe will start tonight in place of Harris. Don't get so worked up. Trust in Jose.

basilesox
05-07-2004, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Wee-Willie is flavor of the week for a small minority of posters. The rest of us would counter their silly posts if we had the slightest doubt this problem will work itself out in very short order.

Harris is worthless if he can't get on base. He doesn't know how to take a walk and he can't bunt to save his life. His stick has been a bad joke going all the way back to double-A. He has all the makings of becoming the worst leadoff man in the league if the Sox are dumb enough to give him 500+ plate appearances. I don't know if Valentin deserves regular playing time, but he certainly has a history of producing that Wee-Willie can only approach in the wettest dreams of Wee-Willie's supporters.

This will all work out soon enough. I'm glad to have problems like having too many ballplayers for positions in the everyday line up. It's infinitely better than not having enough.

Hey a response from the messiah himself. I completely agree with your analysis on Harris......and I have noticed that many of the more knowledgeable "long time" posters have been staying out of these arguments. I happen to be a die hard Valentin fan so it has been really hard for me to take.

I also wanted to compliment you for your work on this sight. I have been reading posts on this site since it began when the "rivals" sight was shut down. (At least I think that is when it began, but I may be wrong.) This site is the only place I go to read up on the Sox. I no longer read much of what the newspaper media prints about the Sox, because I believe it to either be incorrect or something that I would have found out sooner if I would have logged on to this site. I think that the Sox organization and their new marketing director could learn alot from reading some of the posts on this site. It would give them some great insight about what sox fans think about the team.

hose
05-07-2004, 05:52 PM
I have no problem with Ozzie putting Valentin back in at short.

Jose's left handed stick is desperately needed in the Sox line up.

Plus Uribe can be moved over to second and still fill in at third or short when needed.

Lip Man 1
05-07-2004, 10:13 PM
Jose did get an RBI single tonight.

Lip

voodoochile
05-07-2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Jose did get an RBI single tonight.

Lip

and a single and a walk and a stolen base... and of course just for the haters... an error - which didn't cost the Sox any runs (as most of them don't).

OEO Magglio
05-07-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
and a single and a walk and a stolen base... and of course just for the haters... an error - which didn't cost the Sox any runs (as most of them don't).
Yup, Jose's bat is needed in this lineup, probably the most underappeciated player among white sox fans, that the sox have imo.

Kilroy
05-07-2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
and a single and a walk and a stolen base... and of course just for the haters... an error - which didn't cost the Sox any runs (as most of them don't).

Its not always runs that make the difference. How many pitches did it cost? The pitcher has to be able to trust the D behind him. If they don't, they could start trying to strike everyone out because they don't know if the ball will be caught or not.

There's more to it than just runs.

basilesox
05-08-2004, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Its not always runs that make the difference. How many pitches did it cost? The pitcher has to be able to trust the D behind him. If they don't, they could start trying to strike everyone out because they don't know if the ball will be caught or not.

There's more to it than just runs.

That is absolutely ridiculous.....There is no way a pitcher is going to try to strike out everybody because he has no faith in his defense.....This isn't little league where three errors are committed every inning.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-08-2004, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by basilesox
Hey a response from the messiah himself. I completely agree with your analysis on Harris......

Please don't call me Messiah. That's a term used by blasphemous dolts who follow the Lovable Losers. I won't even use the term "fan" to describe them because they are truly some serious idiots.

However I do admit I admit I sometimes evangelize the Good News of Sox Fandom.

You're a good Sox Fan. Be fruitful and multiply.

:)

hose
05-08-2004, 07:35 AM
it's super Jose:
http://www.dailyherald.com/photos/inside/20040508_dh_l2_2_1_sc810049.jpg