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View Full Version : What would it take for the White Sox to get Carlos Beltran?


BigHurt4HOF
05-06-2004, 11:12 AM
There are rumors that if the Royals do not turn it around soon and with their pitching I don't think they will, that Beltran is as good as gone.

Beltran would be a perfect fit for the sox, actually he would be the perfect fit for anybody. The question is what would the Sox have to give up to get him? Could we sucker them into taking Rauch and Borchard? I would even be tempted throwing in Jeremy Reed. Yes, Reed is good, but Beltran is on another level.
Your thoughts?

VeeckAsInWreck
05-06-2004, 11:13 AM
Heck yeah I would want Beltran, would KC trade him to a division rival though?

Deadguy
05-06-2004, 11:16 AM
Only if we could sign him to a longterm contract. Having him just for a couple of months would be nice, only if we didn't have to give up too much.

Tekijawa
05-06-2004, 11:16 AM
New ownership...

If the Sox got Beltran and keep playing like they are playing, probably better with him, I would start to question if the world was really comming to an end? I mean all signs would point to ONLY that conclusion at that point...

rmusacch
05-06-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by BigHurt4HOF
There are rumors that if the Royals do not turn it around soon and with their pitching I don't think they will, that Beltran is as good as gone.

Beltran would be a perfect fit for the sox, actually he would be the perfect fit for anybody. The question is what would the Sox have to give up to get him? Could we sucker them into taking Rauch and Borchard? I would even be tempted throwing in Jeremy Reed. Yes, Reed is good, but Beltran is on another level.
Your thoughts?

You want to throw in Reed for a player we would only have for half a season?

Randar68
05-06-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
Heck yeah I would want Beltran, would KC trade him to a division rival though?

Only a first round draft pick... If they want him, they'd have to sign him in the off-season. No way should they trade for him unless they can sign him as part of the deal. The asking price of KC would be way too high for a division rival.

Deadguy
05-06-2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Only a first round draft pick...

You can't trade draft picks in baseball.

SEALgep
05-06-2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by BigHurt4HOF
There are rumors that if the Royals do not turn it around soon and with their pitching I don't think they will, that Beltran is as good as gone.

Beltran would be a perfect fit for the sox, actually he would be the perfect fit for anybody. The question is what would the Sox have to give up to get him? Could we sucker them into taking Rauch and Borchard? I would even be tempted throwing in Jeremy Reed. Yes, Reed is good, but Beltran is on another level.
Your thoughts? I'm not giving up Reed for him. First of all this his last year of his contract, and Reed is going to be a hell of a player IMO. However, even if we extend him, then there won't be any money for Maggs, where Reed would have been our ideal replacement in right with a guy like Beltran also on the team.

Tekijawa
05-06-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
where Reed would have been our ideal replacement in right with a guy like Beltran also on the team.

Beltran likes to bat infront of Guys named Sweeney... we have a guy named Sweeney right?

SEALgep
05-06-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Beltran likes to bat infront of Guys named Sweeney... we have a guy named Sweeney right? He won't be ready next year, but ya in the future he'll be a good outfielder for us. Despite that though, I'm not willing to say Reed's expendable because of Sweeney.

mdep524
05-06-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
You can't trade draft picks in baseball.

I think what Randar meant is that he wouldn't make a trade for Beltran during the season, he'd wait til the winter and sign his as a free agent- at which point the Sox would have to give KC a first round pick for compensation (like all arbitration free agents).

ma_deuce
05-06-2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by rmusacch
You want to throw in Reed for a player we would only have for half a season?

If that half of season will result in a division championship or better, yes!

Deadguy
05-06-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
I think what Randar meant is that he wouldn't make a trade for Beltran during the season, he'd wait til the winter and sign his as a free agent- at which point the Sox would have to give KC a first round pick for compensation (like all arbitration free agents).

Ah, I see. My apologies Randar.

mdep524
05-06-2004, 11:32 AM
Oh by the way, I would do WHATEVER it took to get Beltran in a Sox uniform. He's my favorite player in all of baseball (favorite pitcher = Vazquez) and he's probably the best all around player too. Could you imagine how exciting it would be?!

sas1974
05-06-2004, 11:33 AM
By all of the accounts that I have heard, Reed will never be as good as Beltran is right now and I am not so sure Carlos can't get even better. That being said, I still wouldn't trade anybody worth anything for Beltran within the division unless we could sign him long term, which of course would call Maggs' future with the club into question. I really don't see this thing going down. I can't believe that KC would want to see Carlos in pinstripes 19 times a year.

Irishsox1
05-06-2004, 11:40 AM
The Sox will never get Beltran, his agent is Scott Boras. Don't even get your hopes up, this is a dead issue.

ScottyTheSoxFan
05-06-2004, 12:50 PM
there is NO chance they would trade him to a team within the division. there not exactly the pittsburgh pirates

kittle42
05-06-2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
New ownership...


This thread really should have ended right there. There is no reason to speculate on this one.

depy48
05-06-2004, 01:38 PM
woah woah woah. we want to replace Rowand?

wdelaney72
05-06-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
The Sox will never get Beltran, his agent is Scott Boras. Don't even get your hopes up, this is a dead issue.

That is a great point.

Dadawg_77
05-06-2004, 01:59 PM
Maybe the Sox can play Boston off the Yankees. Everyone is talking like the Beltran will end up in New York. Now can Kenny talk Boston in being part of a three way deal to get Beltran to White Sox and prevent him from landing in New York this year, ala Colon last year.

Then let Mags, go and keep Carlos.

elrod
05-06-2004, 02:03 PM
Beltran to New York? To replace Bernie? Another cog in the 90s Yankees out the window, huh?

Dadawg_77
05-06-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by elrod
Beltran to New York? To replace Bernie? Another cog in the 90s Yankees out the window, huh?

Bernie would move to DH.

SoxxoS
05-06-2004, 02:29 PM
You know, I will give Boston Gammons credit on this one...he has been touting Beltran for as long as I can remember, even after he had an off year (2001 or 2002).

bobj4400
05-06-2004, 02:31 PM
This thread belongs in the Parking Lot. There is more chance of Manos being traded than the Sox acquiring Beltran. IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.

bartmanisgod
05-06-2004, 02:36 PM
If we nabbed Beltran for the last few months of the season we would win the AL....think of the possibilities....

Uribe, Carlos, Maggs, Frank, Beltran, Paulie

I'm getting goose bumps just thinking about it

Hangar18
05-06-2004, 02:59 PM
What would it take for the SOX to get Carlos Beltran?
Hmmmmm. the guy is phenomenal, is young. Good thing
he wasnt a Pirate, otherwise he'd be Cub already.
back to the question. It would take Jerry Reinsdorf keeling over to the Great Skybox in the Sky (if he's going there)
for this to happen.

CHISOXFAN13
05-06-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
What would it take for the SOX to get Carlos Beltran?
Hmmmmm. the guy is phenomenal, is young. Good thing
he wasnt a Pirate, otherwise he'd be Cub already.
back to the question. It would take Jerry Reinsdorf keeling over to the Great Skybox in the Sky (if he's going there)
for this to happen.

Even if JR wanted him, whose to say KC would be willing to trade him interivision where they could be haunted by him 19 times each season.

That would be suicide for that franchise.

mdep524
05-06-2004, 04:43 PM
It's true that there is very little chance the Sox will trade for Beltran during the season, but it isn't totally unrealistic for the Sox to sign him in the off season. Unlikely, yes, but not "move this thread to the Parking Lot" unrealistic.

Think of the money that could be freed up after this season:

Koch - $6.4 M and Valentin - $5 M will be gone for sure. Mags at $14 M is a question mark, as is Loaiza at $4 M. Now imagine the Sox trading either Konerko- $ 8 M or Lee- $6.5 M.

If the Sox shed Koch, Valentin and Konerko- that's $19.4 M-- which is probably enough money to sign Beltran, who is likely to get about $16M. That would leave $3.4 M to go to a raise for Loaiza (or Maggs, but Maggs' value isn't much higher than the $14 M he makes now) or to the player we acquired for Konerko.

And that is all assuming the Sox keep their payroll exactly the same for '05. If they are willing to bump it up $5 million or so- which is not unreasonable, even for JR and co.- they could very reasonably afford Maggs and Beltran, and probably Loaiza if his request isn't way out of line.

Imagine this line up:

1. Uribe SS
2. Reed LF
3. Beltran CF
4. Ordonez RF
5. Thomas DH
6. Lee 1B
7. Crede 3B
8. Olivo C
9. Harris 2B

WOW!! A move-Lee-to-1B idea has been around for a little while, this would be the perfect time to do it to make room for Jeremy Reed to play LF and get on base at the top of the line up. If we can't get a good deal for PK, maybe we trade Lee instead and leave Pauly at 1b (though clearly this way is preferable).

Obviously, this is a best case scenario. There are other factors and salary fluctuations out there, and the pitching staff would be nothing spectacular here. But the chances of JR signing a big name pitcher are extremely remote anyway, so we're not missing much there.

JR shelled out the cash for Albert Belle, and Beltran is a much beter risk in any possible measurable ways than Belle. It's a pipedream, but it's not entirely out of the question.

Dub25
05-06-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
Heck yeah I would want Beltran, would KC trade him to a division rival though?

Didn't stop Pittsburgh from trading everyone to the Cubs.

Tekijawa
05-06-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by mdep524


Imagine this line up:

1. Uribe SS
2. Reed LF
3. Beltran CF
4. Ordonez RF
5. Thomas DH
6. Lee 1B
7. Crede 3B
8. Olivo C
9. Harris 2B

Imagine this line up:
1. You are
2. Farking
3. Crazy if
4. you think
5. the sox lineup
6. will look anything
7. like that
8. next
9. Year

with

"You might be on Drugs" Coming off the bench

that whole quote should be in pink

mdep524
05-06-2004, 04:53 PM
And, might I add, could you imagine the buzz signing Beltran would create here? It'd be crazy. Season ticket sales, etc. would likely make up for the marginal increase in payroll (though I know the Sox have never heard of this "spend money to make money" phenomenon).

Dub25
05-06-2004, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
The Sox will never get Beltran, his agent is Scott Boras. Don't even get your hopes up, this is a dead issue.

Another reason why Reinsdorf needs to sell. It's hard to get good players when they're all represented by Boras and our knucklehead owner can't get along with him.

mdep524
05-06-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Imagine this line up:
1. You are
2. Farking
3. Crazy if
4. you think
5. the sox lineup
6. will look anything
7. like that
8. next
9. Year

with

"You might be on Drugs" Coming off the bench

that whole quote should be in pink

No offense man, but did you even read my lead up to that line up? If so, you wouldn't have to accuse me of being on drugs (as much as that accusation does discredit me). Read the whole post. I'm not saying its likely, but it is not impossible financially.

kittle42
05-06-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
No offense man, but did you even read my lead up to that line up? If so, you wouldn't have to accuse me of being on drugs (as much as that accusation does discredit me). Read the whole post. I'm not saying its likely, but it is not impossible financially.

Nothing is really impossible financially, in theory.

:reinsy
"Yes, but what about reality!?"

Tekijawa
05-06-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
No offense man, but did you even read my lead up to that line up? If so, you wouldn't have to accuse me of being on drugs (as much as that accusation does discredit me). Read the whole post. I'm not saying its likely, but it is not impossible financially.

I read it I was just being a smart ###...

It Ain't funna happen so why even kid ourselves... When's the last time we got a "blockbuster" player for the late season push? George Bell? Heck, we're probably even a year ahead of schedule again like we were in 2000...

mdep524
05-06-2004, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I read it I was just being a smart ###...

It Ain't funna happen so why even kid ourselves... When's the last time we got a "blockbuster" player for the late season push? George Bell? Heck, we're probably even a year ahead of schedule again like we were in 2000...

If you read it you'd know I was talking about 2005, not a 2004 late season push.

Whitesox029
05-06-2004, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by BigHurt4HOF
There are rumors that if the Royals do not turn it around soon and with their pitching I don't think they will, that Beltran is as good as gone.

Beltran would be a perfect fit for the sox, actually he would be the perfect fit for anybody. The question is what would the Sox have to give up to get him? Could we sucker them into taking Rauch and Borchard? I would even be tempted throwing in Jeremy Reed. Yes, Reed is good, but Beltran is on another level.
Your thoughts?
I have nothing against the Sox getting Beltran of course, but you have to ask yourself realistically...is that really what we need? Why don't we trade for a lights-out closer or a stud starter? I know I'm beating an old drum, but......

Whitesox029
05-06-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by mdep524

Imagine this line up:

1. Uribe SS
2. Reed LF
3. Beltran CF
4. Ordonez RF
5. Thomas DH
6. Lee 1B
7. Crede 3B
8. Olivo C
9. Harris 2B


looks awfully Konerkoless to me....you guys know my feelings on that....if you didn't already you do now....

batmanZoSo
05-06-2004, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Maybe the Sox can play Boston off the Yankees. Everyone is talking like the Beltran will end up in New York. Now can Kenny talk Boston in being part of a three way deal to get Beltran to White Sox and prevent him from landing in New York this year, ala Colon last year.

Then let Mags, go and keep Carlos.

I don't see how Beltran and Lee is an improvement over Maggs and Lee. You could argue that Beltran is better than Maggs, he's certainly a better fielder, but really what's the point? This move would not put us over the top. We need an ace starter and a closer. Get Lee out of here along with Koch and Valentin, and address the major holes without creating big ones (i.e. by getting rid of Maggs). I trust Reed to fill Caballo's shoes, not Maggs's.

I'd just as soon trade for Juan Pierre or someone like him to play center for cheap and leadoff and steal bases, then get rid of the mediocre guys we have making 6-8 million that aren't helping us. Don't go after our best player in maggs. Beltran is a hell of a player, but unless we want to pony up the dough and get him without losing Maggs, I'm totally against it.

mdep524
05-07-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Whitesox029

I have nothing against the Sox getting Beltran of course, but you have to ask yourself realistically...is that really what we need? Why don't we trade for a lights-out closer or a stud starter? I know I'm beating an old drum, but......


Originally posted by batmanZoSo


I don't see how Beltran and Lee is an improvement over Maggs and Lee. You could argue that Beltran is better than Maggs, he's certainly a better fielder, but really what's the point? This move would not put us over the top. We need an ace starter and a closer. Get Lee out of here along with Koch and Valentin, and address the major holes without creating big ones (i.e. by getting rid of Maggs). I trust Reed to fill Caballo's shoes, not Maggs's.

I think Maggs and Beltran is defintely an improvement over Maggs and Konerko or Lee. Beltran brings so many things to the table- speed, power, defense, etc.

I do agree that we need an ace starter, but there is pretty much NO conceivable way that will happen in the off season. JR doesn't pay big bucks for pitching, period. So we might as well hope the money DOES go into some hitting, which he has proven he will pay for once in a blue moon.

As for a closer, I really don't think this city has a good track record of importing high priced "ace" closers. This is one point I agree with Billy Beane on- I would just assume try to develop a low priced closer because he will probably be about as effective as a high priced guy. I don't think its wise for a team to sink a lot of money into a closer- its a totally overpriced position.

I do think a lot of people are missing the boat about acquiring Beltran though- there is no way in hell we will be trading for him this season. Even if we could, I'm not sure it would be worth it. But it's just not gonna happen. In the offseason however, JR and KW have some cash they'll be able to play with, and its not out of the question to sign him as a FA.

batmanZoSo
05-07-2004, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
I think Maggs and Beltran is defintely an improvement over Maggs and Konerko or Lee. Beltran brings so many things to the table- speed, power, defense, etc.

I do agree that we need an ace starter, but there is pretty much NO conceivable way that will happen in the off season. JR doesn't pay big bucks for pitching, period. So we might as well hope the money DOES go into some hitting, which he has proven he will pay for once in a blue moon.

As for a closer, I really don't think this city has a good track record of importing high priced "ace" closers. This is one point I agree with Billy Beane on- I would just assume try to develop a low priced closer because he will probably be about as effective as a high priced guy. I don't think its wise for a team to sink a lot of money into a closer- its a totally overpriced position.

I do think a lot of people are missing the boat about acquiring Beltran though- there is no way in hell we will be trading for him this season. Even if we could, I'm not sure it would be worth it. But it's just not gonna happen. In the offseason however, JR and KW have some cash they'll be able to play with, and its not out of the question to sign him as a FA.

We're a thousand times more likely to trade for an ace starter than to get anyone like Beltran in free agency. We don't like to committ to anything.

mdep524
05-07-2004, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
We're a thousand times more likely to trade for an ace starter than to get anyone like Beltran in free agency. We don't like to committ to anything.

Hey Batman. I disagree with you here. History has shown the Sox are more willing to pay for hitting than pitching. I mean, we haven't done much of either, but Albert Belle, Big Frank, Magglio, Carlo and Pauly have all received relatively good, long term contracts from JR, at least compared to starting pitching. Pitching wise? McDowell, Maddux, Fernandez, Alvarez, Clemens.. the Sox have had a lot of chances and never done anything on the stud pitcher front (except for the joke that was Jamie Navarro).

The only starting pitchers the Sox seem to acquire are either signed off the scrap heap or traded for in their contract year.

batmanZoSo
05-07-2004, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
Hey Batman. I disagree with you here. History has shown the Sox are more willing to pay for hitting than pitching. I mean, we haven't done much of either, but Albert Belle, Big Frank, Magglio, Carlo and Pauly have all received relatively good, long term contracts from JR, at least compared to starting pitching. Pitching wise? McDowell, Maddux, Fernandez, Alvarez, Clemens.. the Sox have had a lot of chances and never done anything on the stud pitcher front (except for the joke that was Jamie Navarro).

The only starting pitchers the Sox seem to acquire are either signed off the scrap heap or traded for in their contract year.

All but one of the hitters in that bunch were already on the team. And the Belle signing was a sham anyway because JR wanted to prove some kind of point or something. We're still not FA players...at all...and never have been. As for the contract year statement, that's what I'm saying...we'll end up getting someone and team performance and attendance will determine whether we give him an extension. But the good thing is we have a talented team and a great manager that'll maximize that, unlike Manuel. So when we do make the next Colon trade, there's a good chance he'll end up staying.

rahulsekhar
05-07-2004, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
Pitching wise? McDowell, Maddux, Fernandez, Alvarez, Clemens.. the Sox have had a lot of chances and never done anything on the stud pitcher front (except for the joke that was Jamie Navarro).

The only starting pitchers the Sox seem to acquire are either signed off the scrap heap or traded for in their contract year.

Notice that none of the guys listed have proven worth the contracts that they got when leaving the Sox (Maddux & Clemens being the ones who were good, but they weren't on the Sox).

IMO, the Sox have done a good job of identifying which pitchers they should resign and which to let go, along with which cheap starters to sign (Eldred, Loaiza, Scho). What they haven't done is a good job of identifying bigname starters to sign in FA - although a sample size of 1 (Navarro) is tough to draw conclusions from.

Regardless, I agree 100% withyour contention that if the Sox are players for a name FA, it'll be a hitter, not a pitcher. My personal opinion is also that if the attendance follows improved weather and continued good play of the team (as hopefully it will), we'll see some loosening of the purse strings as the season goes on. If we approach 3mil, it wouldn't be out of the question for them to increase payroll 5-8mil for next year, which given the contracts being shed could get us a Beltran.