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soxnut
05-06-2004, 10:02 AM
Haven't heard anything lately on whether Magglio is going to be re-signed. I thought they "were close" anyone know what gives?

Kadafi311
05-06-2004, 10:22 AM
They've got to be waiting until we get closer to the All-Star break.

I'm sure in JR's eyes there's no point in signing Magglio if the Sox are in last place come June - at that point he'd be traded for a mediocre player and a gang-load of prospects. However, if we're still in the race, our odds increase 10-fold that he'll be resigned.

Like it or not, it's a business, and as a business, they have to wait and see how business is going before investing a bunch of more money in it.

34 Inch Stick
05-06-2004, 10:23 AM
Last word I heard from a Sox representative is Darren Jackson doubting he would be with the Sox next year.

Tekijawa
05-06-2004, 10:23 AM
Yeah we had Alomar Signed too and Colon was looking forward to coming back to Chicago this year, I'll believe it when I see it.

Railsplitter
05-06-2004, 10:25 AM
From what I saw, there close on the monatary aspects, but quibbling over the length of the contract.

sas1974
05-06-2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Last word I heard from a Sox representative is Darren Jackson doubting he would be with the Sox next year.

I was watching the Balitmore telecast last night and Buck Martinez(Former MLB manager/O's color man) said that he spoke with a White Sox Rep. that said they were still very confident they could work something out with Maggs.

kittle42
05-06-2004, 10:54 AM
They won't sign him. They always disappoint us.

jabrch
05-06-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
They won't sign him. They always disappoint us.

yeah - the product on the field right now is soooo disappointing.

kittle42
05-06-2004, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
yeah - the product on the field right now is soooo disappointing.

Jeez - I was talking about the ownership and its cheapness. I felt that was fairly obvious, but I will be clearer in the future.

Lip Man 1
05-06-2004, 11:46 AM
Jab...just wondering.

When was the last time the Sox were in a World Series? were you even alive??

Lip

anewman35
05-06-2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Jab...just wondering.

When was the last time the Sox were in a World Series? were you even alive??

Lip

Did you notice the words "right now" in his post? I fail to see what past World Series success has to do with that.

rahulsekhar
05-06-2004, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Jab...just wondering.

When was the last time the Sox were in a World Series? were you even alive??

Lip

By that standard, if the Sox were 150-0 heading into the final few weeks of the season, they'd still be disappointing, no?

History is just that. We currently have a team that is playing as well as anyone in baseball and has as good a shot at the playoffs as any. Could they be better? Yes. Could they have invested more and have a better team? Yes. But the history shouldn't detract from the potential of this team or their performance.

Deadguy
05-06-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Jeez - I was talking about the ownership and its cheapness. I felt that was fairly obvious, but I will be clearer in the future.

It couldn't possibly be Magglio's greediness/ego or desire to play elsewhere that ends Magglio's tenure as a White Sox, could it?

SEALgep
05-06-2004, 12:34 PM
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38113152

DaveIsHere
05-06-2004, 12:39 PM
Let him go, we could use the money on pitching and bring up the next "ordonez" from the little leagues, I would rather have pitching, we have a lot of solid OF prospect that I don't want to see go to waste or go anywhere else

Tekijawa
05-06-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by DaveIsHere
Let him go, we could use the money on pitching and bring up the next "ordonez" from the little leagues, I would rather have pitching, we have a lot of solid OF prospect that I don't want to see go to waste or go anywhere else

We had A Lot of Solid Pitching prospects at one time too... I think I'd rather have the sure thing!

SSN721
05-06-2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
We had A Lot of Solid Pitching prospects at one time too... I think I'd rather have the sure thing!

I second that.

kittle42
05-06-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
It couldn't possibly be Magglio's greediness/ego or desire to play elsewhere that ends Magglio's tenure as a White Sox, could it?

Ah, just like the people who bought into the Trib spinning Sammy as evil when the Cubs were gonna dump his salary...

jordan23ventura
05-06-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa


We had A Lot of Solid Pitching prospects at one time too... I think I'd rather have the sure thing!


We ALWAYS have solid OF prospects. Maggs and Lee are the only ones so far in recent memory to prove themselves.

joeynach
05-06-2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by DaveIsHere
Let him go, we could use the money on pitching and bring up the next "ordonez" from the little leagues, I would rather have pitching, we have a lot of solid OF prospect that I don't want to see go to waste or go anywhere else

Bullcrap, this is more than just talent on the field. It represents our organazation as a whole. Every announcer, every writer, everyone in the media, and every fan says it would be a tragedy if we let this guy walk. Maggs is our guy, home grown, and a FAN FAVORITE. No one wants to see him go. Remeber the 25 k fans at the stadium aren't constantly weighing the financial burden of big contracts vs. spreading that money out. They want to see their favorite player play, thats all. As do I. Maggs is a bigtime producer, a great outfielder, great arm, great hitter. Overall and outstanding player, that simple. While 20 people here might argue to let him walk and spread that money around to fill more holes, 2 million of our fan base will be outraged to see him in a different uniform. Not to mention this will be the ultimate PR black eye for a long time. This team would be picked apart by every media source and its own fans, and we all know the last thing we need is more bad PR and negative image. THATS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!

CubKilla
05-06-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
It couldn't possibly be Magglio's greediness/ego or desire to play elsewhere that ends Magglio's tenure as a White Sox, could it?

Probably not. Everything with the White Sox comes down to.....

$ $ $ $ $

South Side
05-06-2004, 08:33 PM
The loyalty this team has for Maggs is unbelievable.

TaylorStSox
05-06-2004, 08:42 PM
It's a real smart idea to overpay a guy because "fans love him and the media expects it." GMAB. I wouldn't overpay for anybody. I've said this 1000 times. If he wants Vlad or Beltran money, I'll pack his bags for him. ****, I'll drive him to NY or LA.

kennyv
05-07-2004, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by joeynach
Bullcrap, this is more than just talent on the field. It represents our organazation as a whole. Every announcer, every writer, everyone in the media, and every fan says it would be a tragedy if we let this guy walk. Maggs is our guy, home grown, and a FAN FAVORITE. No one wants to see him go. Remeber the 25 k fans at the stadium aren't constantly weighing the financial burden of big contracts vs. spreading that money out. They want to see their favorite player play, thats all. As do I. Maggs is a bigtime producer, a great outfielder, great arm, great hitter. Overall and outstanding player, that simple. While 20 people here might argue to let him walk and spread that money around to fill more holes, 2 million of our fan base will be outraged to see him in a different uniform. Not to mention this will be the ultimate PR black eye for a long time. This team would be picked apart by every media source and its own fans, and we all know the last thing we need is more bad PR and negative image. THATS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!

Well spoken!

bigdommer
05-07-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38113152

I love Maggs, but I don't think he will get near Beltran money and Beltran years. If I was in charge, and I was able to get either Beltran or Maggs for a comparable deal, I would take Beltran in a second. They both will hit for about the same average and power, but Beltran could be a 40/40 guy, who switch hits and is only second to Torii Hunter in AL centerfielders, which is a lot more important that RF.

IA_soxfan
05-07-2004, 10:05 AM
Let him walk in order to pave the way for the triumphant return of Jeff Abbott!

SEALgep
05-07-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by bigdommer
I love Maggs, but I don't think he will get near Beltran money and Beltran years. If I was in charge, and I was able to get either Beltran or Maggs for a comparable deal, I would take Beltran in a second. They both will hit for about the same average and power, but Beltran could be a 40/40 guy, who switch hits and is only second to Torii Hunter in AL centerfielders, which is a lot more important that RF. I agree, for the same money, I would just assume have Beltran. That's not to say I don't want Maggs, but there has to be compromises on both sides, and we're not seeing it yet.

kittle42
05-07-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I agree, for the same money, I would just assume have Beltran. That's not to say I don't want Maggs, but there has to be compromises on both sides, and we're not seeing it yet.

You may very well be right about taking one over the other, but the fact is that if they do not sign Magglio, they will get neither. JR will simply pocket that money or distribute it to cover the increased contracts of his remaining players.

SEALgep
05-07-2004, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
You may very well be right about taking one over the other, but the fact is that if they do not sign Magglio, they will get neither. JR will simply pocket that money or distribute it to cover the increased contracts of his remaining players. He won't pocket it, but I agree we don't have a shot at Beltran. It's Maggs or nothing. I was just speaking hypothetically.

Deadguy
05-07-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by joeynach
Bullcrap, this is more than just talent on the field. It represents our organazation as a whole. Every announcer, every writer, everyone in the media, and every fan says it would be a tragedy if we let this guy walk. Maggs is our guy, home grown, and a FAN FAVORITE. No one wants to see him go. Remeber the 25 k fans at the stadium aren't constantly weighing the financial burden of big contracts vs. spreading that money out. They want to see their favorite player play, thats all. As do I. Maggs is a bigtime producer, a great outfielder, great arm, great hitter. Overall and outstanding player, that simple. While 20 people here might argue to let him walk and spread that money around to fill more holes, 2 million of our fan base will be outraged to see him in a different uniform. Not to mention this will be the ultimate PR black eye for a long time. This team would be picked apart by every media source and its own fans, and we all know the last thing we need is more bad PR and negative image. THATS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!

Loyalty is a two way street. Sometimes players are so egotistical and greedy that they simply price themselves into a different market. I hate to defend Reinsdorf here, but if Ordonez ends up playing in another uniform next year, it may not be 100% his fault.

We saw it with Cleveland where Thome, Belle, and Ramirez all bolted for more money. We saw it in Oakland where Giambi and Tejada bolted for money. It's not always the owner's fault.

If Magglio is expecting to earn the type of money that Vladimir is making, then he better step up his game. He's only finished in the top 10 in the league in OPS twice and he's only had one top ten finish in the MVP voting. He's never had a 1.000 OPS season.

hold2dibber
05-07-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura
We ALWAYS have solid OF prospects. Maggs and Lee are the only ones so far in recent memory to prove themselves.

You're forgetting Abbott, Liefer, Mouton, Rowand . . . the list goes on and on!!!!

jabrch
05-07-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by joeynach
Bullcrap, this is more than just talent on the field. It represents our organazation as a whole. Every announcer, every writer, everyone in the media, and every fan says it would be a tragedy if we let this guy walk. Maggs is our guy, home grown, and a FAN FAVORITE. No one wants to see him go. Remeber the 25 k fans at the stadium aren't constantly weighing the financial burden of big contracts vs. spreading that money out. They want to see their favorite player play, thats all. As do I. Maggs is a bigtime producer, a great outfielder, great arm, great hitter. Overall and outstanding player, that simple. While 20 people here might argue to let him walk and spread that money around to fill more holes, 2 million of our fan base will be outraged to see him in a different uniform. Not to mention this will be the ultimate PR black eye for a long time. This team would be picked apart by every media source and its own fans, and we all know the last thing we need is more bad PR and negative image. THATS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!

so we should give him 16mm and handicap this team for 4 years? Sorry - not interested. I sure hope Magglio stay. He is a great ballplayer. But if he wants more money than he is worth - he is going to have to go elsewhere to get it. We don't have a big enough budget to overpay for a RF when we have a potential star at that position who everyone seems to think is almost MLB ready.

Beltran or Magglio for the same money? Please get me the phone number the Grandstand. I need to order my #15 jersey - NOW.

MisterB
05-07-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
so we should give him 16mm and handicap this team for 4 years? Sorry - not interested. I sure hope Magglio stay. He is a great ballplayer. But if he wants more money than he is worth - he is going to have to go elsewhere to get it. We don't have a big enough budget to overpay for a RF when we have a potential star at that position who everyone seems to think is almost MLB ready.

Beltran or Magglio for the same money? Please get me the phone number the Grandstand. I need to order my #15 jersey - NOW.

Welcome to Free Agent Economics 2004. If there is a player that you absolutely must have, the only question is how much are you willing to overpay for him?

BTW who is this potential star RF that can take Ordonez's place? Reed is LF/possible CF, Borchard may be a 'servicable' player, but his offense doesn't look anything above average for a RF (think Rob Deer mk.II), and any other OF prospect we have is 2-3 years away.

jabrch
05-07-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Welcome to Free Agent Economics 2004. If there is a player that you absolutely must have, the only question is how much are you willing to overpay for him?

BTW who is this potential star RF that can take Ordonez's place? Reed is LF/possible CF, Borchard may be a 'servicable' player, but his offense doesn't look anything above average for a RF (think Rob Deer mk.II), and any other OF prospect we have is 2-3 years away.

MisterB, I thought Reed was a RF/CF, not a LF/CF? If I was off-base, then I stand corrected.

Mickster
05-07-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
MisterB, I thought Reed was a RF/CF, not a LF/CF? If I was off-base, then I stand corrected.

What would make Reed be able to play LF and or CF and not be able to play RF? Does not make sense. If he has the speed (he does) and able to get a good jump/read on the ball off the bat (he does) then I see no reason why he could not play right, imho.

jabrch
05-07-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
What would make Reed be able to play LF and or CF and not be able to play RF? Does not make sense. If he has the speed (he does) and able to get a good jump/read on the ball off the bat (he does) then I see no reason why he could not play right, imho.

The difference between an LF and a RF is an arm. I thought Reed has a strong arm and was slated to be a RF or a CF, not a mediocre arm that would slate him to CF/LF?

Lee can't play RF cuz his arm isn't that good. The throw from RF to 3B, or even from deep RF to the cutoff guy is long.

Mickster
05-07-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
The difference between an LF and a RF is an arm. I thought Reed has a strong arm and was slated to be a RF or a CF, not a mediocre arm that would slate him to CF/LF?

Lee can't play RF cuz his arm isn't that good. The throw from RF to 3B, or even from deep RF to the cutoff guy is long.

Reed is often touted by some as a possible 5-tool player. A 5-tool with no arm? :?:

depy48
05-07-2004, 04:31 PM
is it possible that beltran or maggs will wait for the other to sign first, that way they can base how much money they ask for off what the other signed for? even though they play different positions, and maggs is asking for "vlad" money. does anyone know what beltran's asking price is?

jabrch
05-07-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Reed is often touted by some as a possible 5-tool player. A 5-tool with no arm? :?:

That's why I was saying he projects as a RF. MisterB was saying he was a LF. Daver? Randar? Any of the other more Scout-Adept people know about Reed's arm?

iwannago
05-07-2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
He won't pocket it, but I agree we don't have a shot at Beltran. It's Maggs or nothing. I was just speaking hypothetically.

He won't pocket it? Remember the Sox have one of the highest operating incomes in baseball, especially with the current attendence, what do you think JR does with salary savings?

MisterB
05-09-2004, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
That's why I was saying he projects as a RF. MisterB was saying he was a LF. Daver? Randar? Any of the other more Scout-Adept people know about Reed's arm?

From Daver & Randar's Prospect Wrap-Up (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=2354) :

As an outfielder, he has above average speed for a corner out-fielder and average speed for a CF’er. A good-not-great arm and good instincts make him an adequate CF option for the Sox if he performs well in the Arizona Fall League and Spring Training.

I may have misinterpreted the 'good-not-great' assesment of his arm into meaning if a better defensive CF came along (say, Brian Anderson) that Reed would more likely move to LF than RF. Also he doesn't project to have the power that you usually want out of a RF. Please correct me if I'm wrong.