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View Full Version : im tired of all this god damn tinkering!


habibharu
05-05-2004, 09:52 AM
why did ozzied put f-in kelly dransfeldt in???!!! i understand that he doesnt like wille with the lefy lefty matchup, but he has to learn to hit lefties. he also tinkered the other day by taking out PK and putting in gload, who struck out 3 times and left the bases loaded. this guy is reminding me of manuel with this tinkering.

iwannago
05-05-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
why did ozzied put f-in kelly dransfeldt in???!!! i understand that he doesnt like wille with the lefy lefty matchup, but he has to learn to hit lefties. he also tinkered the other day by taking out PK and putting in gload, who struck out 3 times and left the bases loaded. this guy is reminding me of manuel with this tinkering.

A little bit of a silver lining, Dransfeldt is out of options. He has to clear waivers before going back to Charlotte. Maybe someone will claim him, eventhough I think the chances are slim.

nasox
05-05-2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
why did ozzied put f-in kelly dransfeldt in???!!! i understand that he doesnt like wille with the lefy lefty matchup, but he has to learn to hit lefties. he also tinkered the other day by taking out PK and putting in gload, who struck out 3 times and left the bases loaded. this guy is reminding me of manuel with this tinkering.

Dude, he made two lineup switches. Manuel had a totally different lineup every day. I think Ozzie put in Dransfeldt to see if he could prove he should stay on the team. Obviously, dransfeldt failed miserably. So he will be sent down ASAP. And as far as taking out PK and putting in Gload, PK needed a rest and Gload needed some playing time. So Gload was terrible. Maybe Frank should have played 1B and somebody else should have been in the DH spot. I dunno. But Ozzie is deifinitly not a tinkerer.

longshot7
05-05-2004, 10:27 AM
Yeah, dude, chill. You gotta give guys days off sometimes.

For the record, I think Kelly should stay & Burke should go back down. three catchers is too many.

anewman35
05-05-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
why did ozzied put f-in kelly dransfeldt in???!!! i understand that he doesnt like wille with the lefy lefty matchup, but he has to learn to hit lefties. he also tinkered the other day by taking out PK and putting in gload, who struck out 3 times and left the bases loaded. this guy is reminding me of manuel with this tinkering.

It's not "tinkering" just because he doesn't use the exact same lineup every day (like like it's not "corpseball" everytime we don't score 10 runs). Managers give reserves playing time. It happens. It will always happen. Get over it.

Fridaythe13thJason
05-05-2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
why did ozzied put f-in kelly dransfeldt in???!!! i understand that he doesnt like wille with the lefy lefty matchup, but he has to learn to hit lefties. he also tinkered the other day by taking out PK and putting in gload, who struck out 3 times and left the bases loaded. this guy is reminding me of manuel with this tinkering.

I know you've been watching baseball longer than your post makes it seem...it's baseball, not basketball or football. Lineups change. Manuel moved people's spots, etc.

This is the way every major league team works. Look at our recent Yankees series...we saw a different second baseman, first baseman, and center fielder every day.

anewman35
05-05-2004, 10:34 AM
It's somewhat unrelated, but has anybody else ever been annoyed by that commericial they always run during games on the radio that says "The White Sox put their best team out there every day" or something like that. It annoys me every time, because NO baseball team puts their best team out there every day. At the very least, 4 out of 5 games are started by the pitcher who isn't the best pitcher.

jabrch
05-05-2004, 10:58 AM
Ya gotta give guys days off sometimes - that's not a problem. That's not "tinkering".

:jerry
"yeah - I know tinkering - and this isn't it"

jeremyb1
05-05-2004, 11:10 AM
There's nothing in the world harder than convincing fans on this board that managers do sometimes use bench players and that is acceptable.

thepaulbowski
05-05-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
There's nothing in the world harder than convincing fans on this board that managers do sometimes use bench players and that is acceptable.

What, I think every player should play every inning of every game, just like Richie Sexson did last year!!

dpbyron
05-05-2004, 11:28 AM
So not tinkering is using the same lineup for 162 games? I think tinkering means that players don't know there roles or where they stand with the team i.e. WITH JERRY MANUEL

Frater Perdurabo
05-05-2004, 11:38 AM
If Harris asked for a night off (or was sick or something like that), then I can excuse Ozzie for sitting him last night. However, couldn't Kelly play 2B to allow Uribe to stay at SS? A manager needs to ride out the streaks of his hot hitters. That being said, Ozzie in no way has approached the record level of tinkering that Manuel established, and I'll try to stop with the Monday morning quarterbacking.

OurBitchinMinny
05-05-2004, 11:41 AM
I dont understand the outrage. Dransfeldt made an error. Not like we havent seen that out of the SS position. The guy was key in 2 or 3 comebacks and is hitting over .300. Rowand, Gload, and Burke all should go down before he does. Why carry 3 catchers. One bad game is enough to send a guy down. Rowand has had about 20 bad games. Dan wright was terrible in 3 or 4 starts before he got sent down. Kelly should stay. He made a bad error, but its not like that solely decided the game. The white sox didnt have to go down quietly like they did. Loaiza could have made some better pitches to get out of jams. They lost yesterday. Not gonna win them all.

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
why did ozzied put f-in kelly dransfeldt in???!!! i understand that he doesnt like wille with the lefy lefty matchup, but he has to learn to hit lefties. he also tinkered the other day by taking out PK and putting in gload, who struck out 3 times and left the bases loaded. this guy is reminding me of manuel with this tinkering. Not that I'm a Kelly Dransfeldt fan, but why is it tinkering because he started him for a game? Ozzie is hardly Manuel, you're way off base. The normal starters can't start every game, and it was a good day to not start Willie due to a left hander on the mound. You don't have to agree with all his moves, but he stated from the beginning that the bench will be used a lot.

kittle42
05-05-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
Rowand, Gload, and Burke all should go down before he does.

Thank you. I agree wholeheartedly. Now all the early-season and spring training Ross Gload supporters (Trade Konerko - we have Ross Gload!) are suddenly silent.

Spring training means little. There's a reason this guy couldn't stick with the Cubs or Rockies.

poorme
05-05-2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Spring training means little. There's a reason this guy couldn't stick with the Cubs or Rockies.

There's a reason Dransfeldt couldn't stick with the Rangers, Reds, or Red Sox organizations too. At least those other guys have shown they can hit a little in the minors....

kittle42
05-05-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by poorme
There's a reason Dransfeldt couldn't stick with the Rangers, Reds, or Red Sox organizations too. At least those other guys have shown they can hit a little in the minors....

I should have been more clear. I am not defending Dransfeldt, but I wanted to express how worthless Ross Gload is.

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Thank you. I agree wholeheartedly. Now all the early-season and spring training Ross Gload supporters (Trade Konerko - we have Ross Gload!) are suddenly silent.

Spring training means little. There's a reason this guy couldn't stick with the Cubs or Rockies. Ross Gload is still the man. He has had sparatic at bats, which is difficult for any hitter. He has shown his defense off, and it has been impressive. Gload has skills, no doubt about it.

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
I should have been more clear. I am not defending Dransfeldt, but I wanted to express how worthless Ross Gload is. Worthless? You're nuts. How do you expect a guy to be consistent with the bat when he plays every five or six days. In case you didn't know, baseball isn't easy, and it becomes a lot harder when you don't see regular at bats. But he has shown he can hit, the at bats will just allow him to get his timing down and to gain better pitch recognition.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2004, 12:47 PM
For what it's worth, Bill Melton's point on the post game show last night was that it's very difficult to expect Dransfelt to be able to produce when he was put in a situation where he has very little experience (shortstop)

I got the sense that Bill was questioning Ozzie's judgement on this one.

Lip

kittle42
05-05-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Worthless? You're nuts. How do you expect a guy to be consistent with the bat when he plays every five or six days. In case you didn't know, baseball isn't easy, and it becomes a lot harder when you don't see regular at bats. But he has shown he can hit, the at bats will just allow him to get his timing down and to gain better pitch recognition.

To extend your logic out a bit, we could arguably take every team's Sunday Afternoon bench players and play them every day and we could have a solid team. Baseball teams have bench players who start once a week and pinch hit for a reason - those players are generally not anywhere near as good as the everyday starters.

People said the same thing about so many Sox players (Jeff Leifer most recently comes to mind). Not every AAA star is fit for the majors, and playing them more often will make them more consistent - consistently bad.

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
To extend your logic out a bit, we could arguably take every team's Sunday Afternoon bench players and play them every day and we could have a solid team. Baseball teams have bench players who start once a week and pinch hit for a reason - those players are generally not anywhere near as good as the everyday starters.

People said the same thing about so many Sox players (Jeff Leifer most recently comes to mind). Not every AAA star is fit for the majors, and playing them more often will make them more consistent - consistently bad. Gload has done nothing but perform throughout his professional career. Not every AAA does make it as a solid major league player, but to say that if you give some of them a chance, that they'll fail and consistently play bad is not the case.

kittle42
05-05-2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Gload has done nothing but perform throughout his professional career. Not every AAA does make it as a solid major league player, but to say that if you give some of them a chance, that they'll fail and consistently play bad is not the case.

Then why do these guys never "get a chance?" Is it because there are no managers, except those on very bad teams, who are ever willing to give guys a consistent shot?

Gload has been with three different teams now, not including the team he was drafted by (the Marlins) and has made no apparent lasting impression, including with teams during his MLB stints that went 65-97 and 73-89, and though still only 28, he's not so young that he hasn't already reached career-AAA-guy status.

Sometimes, you can;t just keep sticking with guys to give them a chance, especially if there are solid major-league players in front of them (Konerko, Lee, Ordonez here). Players like Gload should know that and should know that this means they need to perform in the limited opportunities they have. If Rowand didn't play center, he'd be in the same boat.

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Then why do these guys never "get a chance?" Is it because there are no managers, except those on very bad teams, who are ever willing to give guys a consistent shot?

Gload has been with three different teams now, not including the team he was drafted by (the Marlins) and has made no apparent lasting impression, including with teams during his MLB stints that went 65-97 and 73-89, and though still only 28, he's not so young that he hasn't already reached career-AAA-guy status.

Sometimes, you can;t just keep sticking with guys to give them a chance, especially if there are solid major-league players in front of them (Konerko, Lee, Ordonez here). Players like Gload should know that and should know that this means they need to perform in the limited opportunities they have. If Rowand didn't play center, he'd be in the same boat. It's not like they aren't trying. Why do you think Hollandsworth was a sought after commodity. The guy can be a pinch hitter and still play effectively. He is a rare luxury to have, who does it consistently. Gload has been behind some pretty awesome major league first basemen, and that's the main reason for his late major league action. It's obvious anyone has to make the most of the opportunities given to them, no matter how limited. However, that's not to say that Gload has not done a good job with the time he's played. It's very difficult, but Gload has done pretty well considering his limited action. Not everyone can hit .350 being used as sparatically like he is.

stillz
05-05-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Worthless? You're nuts. How do you expect a guy to be consistent with the bat when he plays every five or six days.

Agreed. Gload is solid in the field and has shown he can hit (though some of his ABs on Monday were ugly). Batting sporadically in crappy spring weather is going to give you crappy stats.

kittle42
05-05-2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Gload has been behind some pretty awesome major league first basemen, and that's the main reason for his late major league action. It's obvious anyone has to make the most of the opportunities given to them, no matter how limited. However, that's not to say that Gload has not done a good job with the time he's played. It's very difficult, but Gload has done pretty well considering his limited action. Not everyone can hit .350 being used as sparatically like he is.


Originally posted by stillz


Agreed. Gload is solid in the field and has shown he can hit (though some of his ABs on Monday were ugly). Batting sporadically in crappy spring weather is going to give you crappy stats.

He's hitting .207. Before Monday, he was hitting .240.

When he was hitting .350, he was also playing sporadically. So why was he hitting better then in crappy spring weather playing rarely than he is now in crappy spring weather playing rarely?

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
He's hitting .207. Before Monday, he was hitting .240.

When he was hitting .350, he was also playing sporadically. So why was he hitting better then in crappy spring weather playing rarely than he is now in crappy spring weather playing rarely? This ain't Spring Training. There are lots of reasons why, but your analysis of him being a crappy player couldn't be more wrong.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-05-2004, 05:16 PM
why do we have 3 catchers?

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by JohnBasedowYoda
why do we have 3 catchers? He can play third as well, and it leaves Ozzie more options as far as pinch hitting, and having late inning substitutes for extended games. Besides, it's only temporary until we put in a fifth starter, which we don't need just yet.

kittle42
05-05-2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
This ain't Spring Training. There are lots of reasons why, but your analysis of him being a crappy player couldn't be more wrong.

You did not answer to what I said. He was hitting .350+ a week and a half/two weeks ago while playing very little. Since then, he has played very little and is now hitting .207. Which is the "real" Ross Gload? Given his limited ML experience and age, I would say the latter.

Plenty of teams have given plenty of players "chances," and some have succeeded while most have failed. A lot of these teams are either non-contenders from the get-go or at least after mid-season. We are not one of these teams. Championship teams do not just "give guys chances," generally (See, e.g., this year's Yankees and the Bubba/Lofton situation in CF). Besides, isn't having Rowand and Harris in there almost every day enough "chances" to be handing out?

Also, what are the reasons you cite that he is not a crappy player? If you would like to give me all his minor-league stats as reasons, I am sure I can go find a hundred like him or better in the last ten years who have amounted to about just as much.

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
You did not answer to what I said. He was hitting .350+ a week and a half/two weeks ago while playing very little. Since then, he has played very little and is now hitting .207. Which is the "real" Ross Gload? Given his limited ML experience and age, I would say the latter.

Plenty of teams have given plenty of players "chances," and some have succeeded while most have failed. A lot of these teams are either non-contenders from the get-go or at least after mid-season. We are not one of these teams. Championship teams do not just "give guys chances," generally (See, e.g., this year's Yankees and the Bubba/Lofton situation in CF). Besides, isn't having Rowand and Harris in there almost every day enough "chances" to be handing out?

Also, what are the reasons you cite that he is not a crappy player? If you would like to give me all his minor-league stats as reasons, I am sure I can go find a hundred like him or better in the last ten years who have amounted to about just as much. I'm not going to argue this, don't change your tune when he shows his value over the course of a season. Right now, he's done well, regardkess of what you think.

kittle42
05-05-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I'm not going to argue this, don't change your tune when he shows his value over the course of a season. Right now, he's done well, regardkess of what you think.

He has done exactly what I expected, playing good defense in several positions and filling in when necessary, but not hitting much or doing anything meriting an everyday job. I think he did have a 2-run double that figured largely in one game, but hey, even Kelly Dransfeldt figured largely into two games (not counting his negative contributions yesterday).

If Gload ends up hitting above .250 or having more than, say, 6-7 homers, I'll be surprised, but I won't say he's a good player unless he greatly exceeds these low expectations.