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View Full Version : *Official* Post Game Thread 5/4/04


Daver
05-04-2004, 09:00 PM
Your reactions go here.

:bandance:

Nard
05-04-2004, 09:02 PM
Just gotta laugh about this one and hope the Twinkies lose.

RedPinStripes
05-04-2004, 09:03 PM
I didnt like the lineup from the start. Dont start "tinkering " Ozzie.

ihatethecubs
05-04-2004, 09:03 PM
i dont know what sucked most, the error, all the double plays we hit into, or leaving runners on base. 4 walks with no runs?

Konerko05
05-04-2004, 09:04 PM
What the hell was the point of starting Dransfelt today?? What possible good can come out of starting this guy? He can't hit, can't play defense, and will only be on the team for a couple more days.

Not only that, but it makes Uribe have to switch positions again. Uribe has been playing great defense at short, why move him to get Dransfelt in the lineup. Especially after Willie had a good day at the plate yesterday. I just don't understand. And if you are going to start Dransfelt, putting him at the top of the order is the dumbest thing you can do.

Don't jump on me for posting this after the fact either, I had this same complaint when I saw the lineup at the start of the game.

A.T. Money
05-04-2004, 09:04 PM
Just a bad game. But that's what it was..."a game."

Get em tomorrow and let's go to Toronto.

owensmouth
05-04-2004, 09:04 PM
The best thing that can be said is that it's over.

The Morris minor leaguer needs to be deleted.

Hitting was pathetic. We have the strikeout down pat.

Yuck

MisterB
05-04-2004, 09:10 PM
I missed most of the game (not necessarily a bad thing, considering), so just a question - 5 stolen bases for Baltimore? Was Loaiza not keeping an eye on the runners? Were they phenomenal jumps? Did Olivo break his throwing arm? What the hell was going on? :?:

Lip Man 1
05-04-2004, 09:12 PM
A few thoughts...

That was 'ugly' without the 'winning.'

People put down Valentin but don't you think he makes the play on the ground ball in the 4th?

Bill Melton on the post game seemed to be expressing some concerns about the club, he said they are just not hitting and when that happens you can't make any errors. He said they have been playing exciting games, and have won their share but that have not been consistent, especially hitting the ball. the tone of his voice led me to think he has issues with this team as presently composed.

Lip

ChiSox7
05-04-2004, 09:15 PM
You just chalk this one up to one of those 40 games that you are definately going to lose, as quoted by Hawk. It was a crappy game all around. They happen. Tomorrow is important with Burly going.

I am really concerned about our hitting though. We either score by a HR or dont score at all. Base hits with RISP are hard to find with this team right now. If that doesn't remedy itself very quickly, we are going to be in big trouble.

We have had SEVEN hits with RISP in the last 8 games that weren't HR, and three of those were infield hits.

OEO Magglio
05-04-2004, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
I missed most of the game (not necessarily a bad thing, considering), so just a question - 5 stolen bases for Baltimore? Was Loaiza not keeping an eye on the runners? Were they phenomenal jumps? Did Olivo break his throwing arm? What the hell was going on? :?:
All Brian Roberts getting huge jumps and elo not keeping him on, Miguel had no chance on any of the attempts. Also something really weird is the last 3 series the sox have played, there has been one player on the opposing team absolutely locked in, and just getting hits like crazy: Belliard, Catalanatto, now Roberts, don't know what that really means, just getting kind of ridiculous.

batmanZoSo
05-04-2004, 09:25 PM
This is a game we should've won but didn't. Losing games like this are why we never make the playoffs.

Dransfeldt should not be playing shortstop over Uribe. That's just retarded. He's not a big league player, I don't get his whole...presence.

This is one we can can look back on if we miss the playoffs. But the good thing is every team has games like this and they still make the playoffs. Luckily we won a lot of games we shouldn't have and we can also look back on those if we win the division by two games.

If we win tomorrow, that's a road series win and we can all forget about it. But for now I feel like puking because we should have already won the series and be going for a sweep. This game was "pissed away." The fourth time this year by my count.

Let's just hope we win tomorrow. Normally a road win isn't required so to speak, but when you already had a chance and blew it, you have to rectify it the next day. Don't let tonight cost us. That's what playoff teams usually do.

Patrick134
05-04-2004, 09:28 PM
Someone above said dransfeldt can't hit ? if he doesnt get thet huge hit in the indians comeback game, theres no telling what the sox record might be now. this was hardly a game the sox "should" have had. "Could " have had... definitely.

batmanZoSo
05-04-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Patrick134
Someone above said dransfeldt can't hit ? if he doesnt get thet huge hit in the indians comeback game, theres no telling what the sox record might be now. this was hardly a game the sox "should" have had. "Could " have had... definitely.

No, we should've won this game. We couldn't get clutch hits against a terrible pitcher. At the same time we had the best pitcher since 2003 on the mound and we let three gift runs cross the plate in one inning because of what was basically the definitive error to end all errors.

OurBitchinMinny
05-04-2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Konerko05
What the hell was the point of starting Dransfelt today?? What possible good can come out of starting this guy? He can't hit, can't play defense, and will only be on the team for a couple more days.

Not only that, but it makes Uribe have to switch positions again. Uribe has been playing great defense at short, why move him to get Dransfelt in the lineup. Especially after Willie had a good day at the plate yesterday. I just don't understand. And if you are going to start Dransfelt, putting him at the top of the order is the dumbest thing you can do.

Don't jump on me for posting this after the fact either, I had this same complaint when I saw the lineup at the start of the game.

1 bad game and dransfeldt sucks? Hes not an everyday player, but he was key to a few of those comeback wins. Aaron rowand cant, is average at best defensively and should be in AAA, but he plays damn near everyday. Dransfeldt may be going down, but Id rather have him on the roster than a no count like rowand.

SoxxoS
05-04-2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
This is one we can can look back on if we miss the playoffs.

I disagree. Opening Day is a game we can look back on if we miss the playoffs. Giving up games with big leads are those kind of games...

This was just a game we lost. We can't play that great everyday.

CHISOXFAN13
05-04-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
No, we should've won this game. We couldn't get clutch hits against a terrible pitcher. At the same time we had the best pitcher since 2003 on the mound and we let three gift runs cross the plate in one inning because of what was basically the definitive error to end all errors.

Rodrigo Lopez shut us down. We weren't winning this game no matter what

niucons
05-04-2004, 09:39 PM
This is just a game we pissed away. The dransfeldt error was the turning point of the game, and it killed us.

But to put it another way, with our Ace on the mound against a scrub, we still should have won. We just played ugly, and it showed. Hopefully we can manage a series win with Mark on the mound, but games like this will kill us. Ordonez came up big in the first, but after that he was pathetic. We need more production out of the big man, as well as the rest, Thomas, Lee and Konerko included. And all you Crede knockers, he did hit his second blast in a row.

batmanZoSo
05-04-2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Rodrigo Lopez shut us down. We weren't winning this game no matter what

(soxxos) I disagree. Opening Day is a game we can look back on if we miss the playoffs. Giving up games with big leads are those kind of games...

Would we have given up those extra runs after the big inning if it never happened? Don't you think morale would have been higher? As for Lopez shutting us down...we should've been ahead by two or three runs like I alread said, so we could've afforded to be shut down by him. And again, who knows how we would've hit Lopez if we weren't down in the dumps already? You guys aren't looking at the whole picture. I can't believe you don't think we should've won this game when we got Loaiza vs. Some Guy who couldn't get anything over the plate.

Hokiesox
05-04-2004, 10:05 PM
I was at the game. Boy did they look awful. 5 stolen bases because olivo couldn't get a throw on target. He threw 2 into center field, one to the third base side and the other 2 I don't remember. NO clutch hitting at all. NO ozzie ball. Dransfeldt looked like a AA guy with that error. (Why was he starting anyway? I was walking to the bathroom 2 batters after that and heard the PBP guys for the orioles talking about needed pop against a lefty. I didn't know our lineup needed more pop on paper...a minor leaguer sure isn't the answer, I better not see him tomorrow.)

Awful game, awful loss. Dubose is not a good pitcher. Should have pounded him for 8 runs. Nice Homers by Maggs and Crede though, both to the same place about 10 rows back in left field.

AWFUL DEFENSE too. They looked like they gave up around the fifth. The ball that got through past Paulie in the ninth was my final straw. He only needed to take a step to his right. Instead, he watched it roll on by.

Ugh...

OEO Magglio
05-04-2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
I was at the game. Boy did they look awful. 5 stolen bases because olivo couldn't get a throw on target. He threw 2 into center field, one to the third base side and the other 2 I don't remember. NO clutch hitting at all. NO ozzie ball. Dransfeldt looked like a AA guy with that error. (Why was he starting anyway? I was walking to the bathroom 2 batters after that and heard the PBP guys for the orioles talking about needed pop against a lefty. I didn't know our lineup needed more pop on paper...a minor leaguer sure isn't the answer, I better not see him tomorrow.)

Awful game, awful loss. Dubose is not a good pitcher. Should have pounded him for 8 runs. Nice Homers by Maggs and Crede though, both to the same place about 10 rows back in left field.

AWFUL DEFENSE too. They looked like they gave up around the fifth. The ball that got through past Paulie in the ninth was my final straw. He only needed to take a step to his right. Instead, he watched it roll on by.

Ugh...
The stolen bases weren't Miguel's fault those were all on elo.

Patrick134
05-04-2004, 10:12 PM
i think it just gets old seeing people posting pushing the panic button after every loss. was this loss ugly ? you bet, but there isn't a team out there that hasnt lost a few games like this already. Should we have won this one ? Debatable, but using that logic, we won a lot of games we shouldn't have already.

nasox
05-04-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Patrick134
i think it just gets old seeing people posting pushing the panic button after every loss. was this loss ugly ? you bet, but there isn't a team out there that hasnt lost a few games like this already. Should we have won this one ? Debatable, but using that logic, we won a lot of games we shouldn't have already.

I agree. We can't win em all. As long as we win series we will be fine.

chisox06
05-04-2004, 10:17 PM
Well this game can be gone and forgotten, that was sloppy all the way around. Sox have only lost 1 series so far, so if we go out and get em tomorrow, all is good in the sox nation.

Jerko
05-04-2004, 10:18 PM
One of Olivo's throws was on target, but nobody covered the base on time. Elo held nobody on so that was a losing battle all night. I realize Dransfeldt had a few clutch hits vs. Cleveland/Tampa, but I really CAN go a few days without seeing Dransfeldt or Gload in the starting lineup.

batmanZoSo
05-04-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by nasox
I agree. We can't win em all. As long as we win series we will be fine.

I agree with that. Everyone does. But until we win it, it hurts.

Viva Magglio
05-04-2004, 10:20 PM
Because of work, I did not see the game tonight. While disappointed that we lost tonight, I am not going to make a big deal out of the loss. What happened to us tonight happens to the best teams. I knew Loaiza was going to get battered sooner or later; he really hasn't been overpowering in his previous games.

Let's just win tomorrow and go from there.

SoxxoS
05-04-2004, 10:20 PM
The line in Vegas was -120 for the White Sox...a very, very low favorite. If Pedro pitched against Dan Wright, you can bet the BoSox are -280.

Vegas generally knows what they are talking about. They are usually right on with the lines, and they have the Orioles a big chance to win this game.

Loiaza didn't have it today, you can't say every time he pitches he is going to have his best stuff.

This game was just a poorly played game. It happens during 162 games.

JGarlandrules20
05-04-2004, 10:21 PM
The OEO Oriole chant was just not cool at all.

Anyway..
These are just the games that the sox just have to learn from and move on.
"Shake it off" as one of my coaches would say.

niucons
05-04-2004, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by chisox06
Well this game can be gone and forgotten, that was sloppy all the way around. Sox have only lost 1 series so far, so if we go out and get em tomorrow, all is good in the sox nation.

One win tomorrow will make this all better.

batmanZoSo
05-04-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
One of Olivo's throws was on target, but nobody covered the base on time. Elo held nobody on so that was a losing battle all night. I realize Dransfeldt had a few clutch hits vs. Cleveland/Tampa, but I really CAN go a few days without seeing Dransfeldt or Gload in the starting lineup.

That's a serious problem all around the pitching staff. Teams are running like crazy on us and we have the strongest catcher's arm in the majors. Brian Roberts is not Carl Crawford. We definitely need to work on that.

Konerko05
05-04-2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
1 bad game and dransfeldt sucks? Hes not an everyday player, but he was key to a few of those comeback wins. Aaron rowand cant, is average at best defensively and should be in AAA, but he plays damn near everyday. Dransfeldt may be going down, but Id rather have him on the roster than a no count like rowand.

Did I say Dransfeldt sucks because of one game? I don't think I said that anywhere. I'm definitely not going to waste my time defending my position that Dransfeldt sucks, take a look at his whole career if you want to see why he sucks. I'm grateful for his hit the other day against the Indians, but thats probably going to be the highlight of his career. Wow, I never thought i'd have to defend myself with a comment like Dransfeldt sucks.

Irishsox1
05-04-2004, 10:43 PM
I know why Dransfelt was in instead of Wille Harris, but that error was massive. Gave Baltimore a 4 run lead and then the O's bring in two relievers with under 1.00 eras. That's the game. Hopefully Minnesota loses.

Brian26
05-04-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
I missed most of the game (not necessarily a bad thing, considering), so just a question - 5 stolen bases for Baltimore? Was Loaiza not keeping an eye on the runners? Were they phenomenal jumps? Did Olivo break his throwing arm? What the hell was going on? :?:

4 of them were by this kid Brian Roberts, who looks like frickin' Speedy Gonzalez. He gets UNBELIEVABLE walking jumps on pitchers. I think he's 2nd in the AL in stolen bases right now. When he got on base in his last at-bat, there's no doubt he would have had stolen base #5 if there wasn't an Oriole on 2nd base already.

Brian26
05-04-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
People put down Valentin but don't you think he makes the play on the ground ball in the 4th?

What's your point, Lip?

Yeah, 97 out of 100 times, Jose probably makes that play. But, you know what? 97 out of 100 times, Juan Uribe makes that play. And, 97 out of 100 times, Kelly Dransfeldt makes that play. And it you put Vance Law out there tomorrow, he'd probably make that play too. It's rare you see an error like that. It cost us big time, especially momentum-wise. However, I doubt Dransfeldt would make the same mistake consistently.

Brian26
05-04-2004, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
No, we should've won this game. We couldn't get clutch hits against a terrible pitcher. At the same time we had the best pitcher since 2003 on the mound and we let three gift runs cross the plate in one inning because of what was basically the definitive error to end all errors.

No, I agree with Patrick on this one. We could have won this one, but there's no way you can say this is a "should've won" when we lost by 7 runs. Remember, when Kelly made that error, the game was tied 3-3. The error ended up costing us 4 unearned runs, moving the score to 7-3. The game ended 10-3. We didn't even score again. Lopez owned us. It's not like we came back and lost by one or two runs. They beat us by 7 runs. We flat out lost it. The error hurt out momentum, no doubt, but this by no means was a "should've won" game.

Brian26
05-04-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
I was at the game. Boy did they look awful. 5 stolen bases because olivo couldn't get a throw on target. He threw 2 into center field...

Whoa. As Hawk pointed out (and the tv replay showed very clearly), one of those throws went into center because neither Uribe or Dransfeldt got their behinds over to 2nd base in time to cover. The throw was right on target. Secondly, Brian Roberts was getting Lance Johnson-type jumps. Part of that is ELo's fault, but Roberts should get more credit than the White Sox getting blamed. The kid looked awesome on the basepaths tonight.

chisox06
05-04-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by niucons
One win tomorrow will make this all better.

Exactly. And by the way Shouldn't we "take it to chat"? :D:

batmanZoSo
05-04-2004, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Whoa. As Hawk pointed out (and the tv replay showed very clearly), one of those throws went into center because neither Uribe or Dransfeldt got their behinds over to 2nd base in time to cover. The throw was right on target. Secondly, Brian Roberts was getting Lance Johnson-type jumps. Part of that is ELo's fault, but Roberts should get more credit than the White Sox getting blamed. The kid looked awesome on the basepaths tonight.

I could be mistaken, but I remember another time when Olivo would've thrown someone out, but he stopped because no one was there. What a sickening display.

bc2k
05-04-2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Konerko05
Wow, I never thought i'd have to defend myself with a comment like Dransfeldt sucks.

Really. Dransfeldt sucks and should be the unanimous goat of the game. If he doesn't error, the game stays tied at 3 and you can erase 4 Oriole runs off the board. Not to mention he left 6 men on base tonight. Horrible, horrible game. Crede's double play was a killer too. And his errant throw to Konerko didn't help the team either.

I can't believe they charged Konerko with the error and not Crede. It was Crede who almost fell down after fielding the ball, it was Crede who double-pumped his throw, it was Crede's throw that pulled Konerko off of the bag, yet it was Konerko who was charged with the error.

Crede must be the slowest guy in the league getting the ball to first after fielding it. His arm is plus, but transferring the ball from his glove to his hand, and his looong delivery (which only rivals his looooong swing) need to be corrected. Crede needs to watch and learn from Aramis Ramirez.

voodoochile
05-04-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Really. Dransfeldt sucks and should be the unanimous goat of the game. If he doesn't error, the game stays tied at 3 and you can erase 4 Oriole runs off the board. Not to mention he left 6 men on base tonight. Horrible, horrible game. Crede's double play was a killer too. And his errant throw to Konerko didn't help the team either.

I can't believe they charged Konerko with the error and not Crede. It was Crede who almost fell down after fielding the ball, it was Crede who double-pumped his throw, it was Crede's throw that pulled Konerko off of the bag, yet it was Konerko who was charged with the error.

Crede must be the slowest guy in the league getting the ball to first after fielding it. His arm is plus, but transferring the ball from his glove to his hand, and his looong delivery (which only rivals his looooong swing) need to be corrected. Crede needs to watch and learn from Aramis Ramirez.


Yes, because almost every day, someone beats Crede's throw to first. I mean it is so common as to be not worth discussing.

Look, rip the guy for his bat this season, but his defense has been as good as it comes. That was a tough play and if Konerko had the foot speed of a three toed sloth, he would have made the adjustment and recorded the out. Unfortunately, Konehead is a rock and can't move his feet to save his life.

On a side note, anyone else disappointed that Ozzie has failed to put Frank at first for any of these road games yet? I mean, he clearly is struggling at the plate without the batting cage to stay loose. Why not give him the chance to get out in the field and play? Let's not continue to recreate JM's mistakes. Change the dynamics and see what happens.

WhiteSox = Life
05-04-2004, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Yes, because almost every day, someone beats Crede's throw to first. I mean it is so common as to be not worth discussing.

Look, rip the guy for his bat this season, but his defense has been as good as it comes. That was a tough play and if Konerko had the foot speed of a three toed sloth, he would have made the adjustment and recorded the out. Unfortunately, Konehead is a rock and can't move his feet to save his life.

On a side note, anyone else disappointed that Ozzie has failed to put Frank at first for any of these road games yet? I mean, he clearly is struggling at the plate without the batting cage to stay loose. Why not give him the chance to get out in the field and play? Let's not continue to recreate JM's mistakes. Change the dynamics and see what happens.

I think Ozzie would like to put Frank at first base, but with the recently twinged hamstring, Frank's only DH'ed. Frank should get some time at first soon (especially on the road), but only once the weather stays consistent and warm. At least, that's what I like to believe. Let's hope it's that way.

fquaye149
05-05-2004, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
[B

People put down Valentin but don't you think he makes the play on the ground ball in the 4th?

[/B]

LOL! yes lip, i guess i advocate valentin over KELLY DRANSFELDT. stop the presses.

uribe makes that play in his sleep with his bare hand

fquaye149
05-05-2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Crede needs to watch and learn from Aramis Ramirez.

wow. just wow.

i never ever thought i'd read these words in regard to defense.

wow.

nasox
05-05-2004, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Crede needs to watch and learn from Aramis Ramirez.

Stupidest post ever. Just Pathetic

SSN721
05-05-2004, 06:50 AM
I was dissapointed, but I felt after the first couple innings that this team just didnt deserve this one. When you leave bases loaded and get 5 or 6 walked in two inning and you still cant score, it just isnt your night. The error was horrific, but so were the misplayed balls on monday that allowed the Sox to win. So I guess I can justify this loss as somewhat of a payback for the gift runs we got last night. So hopefulyl tonight we can win it straight up without help and take this series and move on. It is just one loss, we played terribly, but it happens. I am not writing off this team because of one horrible game.

anewman35
05-05-2004, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
No, we should've won this game. We couldn't get clutch hits against a terrible pitcher.

When you lose a game by 7 runs, it's hard to say you "should have won it". If everything had gone right, could we have won? Sure. But that's a whole lot of ifs.

TaylorStSox
05-05-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
wow. just wow.

i never ever thought i'd read these words in regard to defense.

wow.


BC2K's comment could be the most ignorant I've ever read on this board. Nobody, in any league, should look at Ramirez' defense to get better. Are you freakin kiddin me? I'm seriously laughing out loud.

Anyway, Batman, why does everything have to be the best or worst? You're sounding like Lip. If somebody doesn't play well, they're "terrible." If somebody is mediocre they're "terrible." Get a grip.

You can charge all of those SB's to Elo. He wasn't even trying to hold Roberts on. Even if he had, I don't know if they could have stopped him. That was the best display of stealing I've seen since Henderson and Raines were in their prime.