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WSox8404
05-04-2004, 01:25 PM
Back before the season started there were rumors about him possibly coming here in a trade. I didn't think much of it back then, but look at what he is doing in Seattle. He is only 0 and 1 but his ERA is 2.2 something in 35 innings pitched. I wish there was a way we could trade for him. I know this will never happen, but how about Rowand, Valentine, and Danny Wrong for him? Then we could put Reed in center and Uribe at short, and replace Wrong with Garcia. That would be outstanding, but I am sure that will never happen.

chisoxmike
05-04-2004, 01:27 PM
I actually watched Sports Page last night and they said something that there are rumors that KW has always wanted Garcia and is thinking about requiring him and that it won't be hard seeing the Seattle is in last place.

A.T. Money
05-04-2004, 01:28 PM
Who is Valentine?

WSox8404
05-04-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Who is Valentine?

Jose, unless you are being sarcastic in someway.

habibharu
05-04-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by WSox8404
Back before the season started there were rumors about him possibly coming here in a trade. I didn't think much of it back then, but look at what he is doing in Seattle. He is only 0 and 1 but his ERA is 2.2 something in 35 innings pitched. I wish there was a way we could trade for him. I know this will never happen, but how about Rowand, Valentine, and Danny Wrong for him? Then we could put Reed in center and Uribe at short, and replace Wrong with Garcia. That would be outstanding, but I am sure that will never happen. you would have to give them a prospect. maybe a meaux?

WSox8404
05-04-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
you would have to give them a prospect. maybe a meaux?

Sounds good to me. I mean I think we have a real shot at going real far this year. Why not go for it? Garcia is still young and would provide us with one helluva staff.

habibharu
05-04-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by WSox8404
Sounds good to me. I mean I think we have a real shot at going real far this year. Why not go for it? Garcia is still young and would provide us with one helluva staff. or even better, rauch

WSox8404
05-04-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Who is Valentine?

Gotcha. Valentin. HaHa.

WSox8404
05-04-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
or even better, rauch

I would part with Rauch in a second. I doubt he is going anywhere.

jabrch
05-04-2004, 01:37 PM
Garcia has always had great tools. He has had a problem with his "pregame preparation" for the past few years. The rumors are that he has been drinking a lot in preparation for his starts - and doesn't pitch well while hungover. I don't know this first-hand, but have heard it a bunch when I was working in Portland.

If he is mentally together, I'd love to see him here. He has the tools. I wouldn't really want to trade Valentin - and I imagine Seattle wouldn't want him. (Auralia already costs a bunch to start for them) But something else could be worked out.

SEALgep
05-04-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
you would have to give them a prospect. maybe a meaux? I would prefer to keep Meaux if at all possible, I think he has a real good fututre as a lefty specialist for us, maybe even next year. If they'd do it, I would rather give them Borchard than Meaux.

With that said though, Borchard will probably fulfill his potential with them, which is fine, because I am not very confident that he will with us. Some guys do better with a change of scenery. I wouldn't feel so bad about giving up on him for a guy like Garcia though.

Palehose13
05-04-2004, 02:00 PM
I'll take him. What do they want/need? There are a couple of prospects I would have no problem saying goodbye to.

dirty-mutt
05-04-2004, 02:04 PM
Garcia would definielty be a solid pickup. I read that some of his inconsistency last year was due to ear drum problems (he sneezed when the plane was landing) and it looks like hes puttin it together. Hes always had good stuff Lets not give up too much just yet though, the team seems to be doing alright so far this season, dont need to mess with what is working

habibharu
05-04-2004, 02:06 PM
i would trade some top prospects for this guy. can you imagine a rotation of buehrle,ELO,garland,garcia,and honel/diaz next year? he's only 27 yrs. old.

SoxxoS
05-04-2004, 02:06 PM
We need Seattle to be completely out of it soon, so we can offer some prospects before anyone else does. Ozzie loves Freddie and KW is fond of him as well...but we have nobody on this team to make Seattle better.

depy48
05-04-2004, 02:09 PM
isnt garcia in a contract year?

habibharu
05-04-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
We need Seattle to be completely out of it soon, so we can offer some prospects before anyone else does. Ozzie loves Freddie and KW is fond of him as well...but we have nobody on this team to make Seattle better. how bout borchard? martinez is getting old.

SEALgep
05-04-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
i would trade some top prospects for this guy. can you imagine a rotation of buehrle,ELO,garland,garcia,and honel/diaz next year? he's only 27 yrs. old. It does depend who though. I'm not willing to give up Reed, or Sweeney, for Garcia, since he has a one year contract. If we did trade for him though, I do think there is a good chance in signing him. He golfs with Guillen and Cora in the offseason, he'd probably love it here. I'm assuming anyway.

SEALgep
05-04-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
how bout borchard? martinez is getting old. Done and done. :smile:

kittle42
05-04-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by WSox8404
I know this will never happen, but how about Rowand, Valentine, and Danny Wrong for him?

Why do 99.9% of fans' trade proposals always sound like:

"How about we trade our team's junk for one really good guy. To make it even, we'll give them like 3-5 junk players for their one good one!"

Ugh.

dougs78
05-04-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by depy48
isnt garcia in a contract year?

yes, he is in the last year of his contract, which is why Seattle had/has been wanting to deal him.

If we got him, it would almost surely be for one year, but still it would make a very nice addition for this one year.

MRKARNO
05-04-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by depy48
isnt garcia in a contract year?

Yes he is. He was an arbitration eligible player last year and the M's signed him to a contract less than 7 mil before going to arbitration with him

SEALgep
05-04-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by dougs78
yes, he is in the last year of his contract, which is why Seattle had/has been wanting to deal him.

If we got him, it would almost surely be for one year, but still it would make a very nice addition for this one year. He's friends with Guillen and Cora, so I wouldn't necessarily rule out an extension for him if we got him. It's possible at least.

MRKARNO
05-04-2004, 02:15 PM
We should really get Garcia, Beltran and Vidro

SoxxoS
05-04-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
how bout borchard? martinez is getting old.

I would drive Borchard myself to Safeco for Garcia.

habibharu
05-04-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
We should really get Garcia, Beltran and Vidro and then we'll re-sign maggs and get renteria in the offseason. our lineup next year: renteria,vidro,maggs,thomas,beltran,lee,konerko,cr ede,olivo

MRKARNO
05-04-2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
and then we'll re-sign maggs and get renteria in the offseason. our lineup next year: renteria,vidro,maggs,thomas,beltran,lee,konerko,cr ede,olivo

You're forgetting Pedro and the trade for Adam Dunn

But honestly, I would think that we'd be able to at least be in the running for one of Beltran, Vidro or Garcia or in my wildest dreams two of the three

habibharu
05-04-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
You're forgetting Pedro and the trade for Adam Dunn

But honestly, I would think that we'd be able to at least be in the running for one of Beltran, Vidro or Garcia or in my wildest dreams two of the three i really dont want vidro. his numbers arent that great. i would rather try to trade for soriano. and no, that shouldnt be in pink!

soltrain21
05-04-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by dougs78
yes, he is in the last year of his contract, which is why Seattle had/has been wanting to deal him.

If we got him, it would almost surely be for one year, but still it would make a very nice addition for this one year.


Why do you say that? We are going to have alot of free money next year..

Mickster
05-04-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by soltrain21
Why do you say that? We are going to have alot of free money next year..

Well, not really. Assuming you resign Maggs, there's 14M there. Frank will get 8M, another 8M for Konerko, 7M for Carlos, Buehrle will get his 6M. Want to re-sign Loaiza? Not at 4M, assuming he gives us 16-18 wins this year. Crede, Uribe, Harris will be on the cheap as well as most of our bullpen, however. Your'e looking at 55-60M and that's not including Valentin, Koch or the likes. I am including Konerko in the above scenario unless, or course, we get some team to take his albatross salary off our hands either this year or in the off season.

onenine19
05-04-2004, 05:00 PM
Rauch and Borchard for Garcia. Sounds good to me.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by onenine19
Rauch and Borchard for Garcia. Sounds good to me.

FOR A RENT-A-PLAYER!?!?!?!?!?

:whoflungpoo

SoxxoS
05-04-2004, 05:40 PM
Borchard and a low level prospect. Not Rauch.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Borchard and a low level prospect. Not Rauch.

That would be overpaying, IMO. They'd have to do something like that if they were unwilling to take on his salary, though, I guess.

Seattle would take a marginal prospect for him if the team would take his salary off Seattle's hands. Seattle ain't going anywhere in the West except the cellar, so see what they can do now before the price really rockets.

Garcia is also a friend of Ozzie IIRC, so maybe we'd have a better chance of resigning him...

soltrain21
05-04-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Well, not really. Assuming you resign Maggs, there's 14M there. Frank will get 8M, another 8M for Konerko, 7M for Carlos, Buehrle will get his 6M. Want to re-sign Loaiza? Not at 4M, assuming he gives us 16-18 wins this year. Crede, Uribe, Harris will be on the cheap as well as most of our bullpen, however. Your'e looking at 55-60M and that's not including Valentin, Koch or the likes. I am including Konerko in the above scenario unless, or course, we get some team to take his albatross salary off our hands either this year or in the off season.


Valentin will not be resigned, and I highly doubt Koch will be back...

jordan23ventura
05-04-2004, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by kittle42


Why do 99.9% of fans' trade proposals always sound like:

"How about we trade our team's junk for one really good guy. To make it even, we'll give them like 3-5 junk players for their one good one!"

Ugh.


One man's trash is another man's treasure. Colorado's junk is playing an awesome SS so far this year. Look across town, and The Cub's first base junk is hitting the cover off the ball with the Marlins. As posted above, a change of scenery might be all that a guy like Borchard or Rauch needs.

beckett21
05-04-2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
i really dont want vidro. his numbers arent that great. i would rather try to trade for soriano. and no, that shouldnt be in pink!

Look beyond Vidro's numbers for this season. Les Expos suck this year; he could do some damage in our lineup and is a proven .300 hitter.

Soriano? Yes it should be in pink. GMAB. No freaking way.

Freddy Garcia is a no brainer. He makes us better immediately. If we want to advance in the postseason, we need someone with his experience in the rotation. At least he has been to the playoffs. If we can get him, we should get him. ASAP as far as I'm concerned. His price is only going to continue to rise.

CWSGuy406
05-04-2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Why do 99.9% of fans' trade proposals always sound like:

"How about we trade our team's junk for one really good guy. To make it even, we'll give them like 3-5 junk players for their one good one!"

Ugh.

Thanks for posting that kittle. Understand here that a whole bunch of crap isn't a good thing, just because there's more of it. Quality over quantity. Wright, Valentin, and Rowand - not one of these guys are actual prospects. Valentin is aging (plus they have Aurilia), Rowand is a fringe third outfielder, or a fourth outfielder at best. Wright may have a good career down the road (probably in the bullpen), but this for a starter with pretty good stuff?

They can get better than that, IMO...

niucons
05-04-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
That would be overpaying, IMO. They'd have to do something like that if they were unwilling to take on his salary, though, I guess.

Seattle would take a marginal prospect for him if the team would take his salary off Seattle's hands. Seattle ain't going anywhere in the West except the cellar, so see what they can do now before the price really rockets.

Garcia is also a friend of Ozzie IIRC, so maybe we'd have a better chance of resigning him...

I think most guys on this board miss this, but when you have a chance to win this year, you have to take it. The was KW's theme last year, when he made a lot of moves to get us to the next level, which didn't pan out.

The point is, moving three good prospects, such as Rouche, and a couple guys like him is worth it, because odd's say only one will make it. We haven't won a series since freaking 1917, do whatever it takes to win, now, especially in a pathetic division like the central.

beckett21
05-04-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

Garcia is also a friend of Ozzie IIRC, so maybe we'd have a better chance of resigning him...

Interesting to see you say that Randar, because whenever I said something to that effect in regards to Ozzie helping us sign players, you pretty much ripped me a new one and told me how money talks. IIRC it was regarding Garcia and/or Urbina. $$$$$ talks, or something like that.

In fairness to you, that was a couple months ago. But I have a long memory :D:

And guess what...for once I agree with you.

Better clear that with Mr. Reinsdorf, however, just to be safe.

batmanZoSo
05-04-2004, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I would prefer to keep Meaux if at all possible, I think he has a real good fututre as a lefty specialist for us, maybe even next year. If they'd do it, I would rather give them Borchard than Meaux.

With that said though, Borchard will probably fulfill his potential with them, which is fine, because I am not very confident that he will with us. Some guys do better with a change of scenery. I wouldn't feel so bad about giving up on him for a guy like Garcia though.

I wouldn't worry about players we traded away becoming good. I'm sick of waiting for prospects to bring us glory. We need to go out and grab it. My m.o. is if you have any shot to go all the way, do whatever it takes to do it. There's a limit of course...dont' give up Reed and Honel or anything like that, but you have to strike while the iron's hot. Getting Aloamr and Everett last year = good. Getting Garcia this year = good. The least you can do is try. Or else what's the point of playing?

beckett21
05-04-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I wouldn't worry about players we traded away becoming good. I'm sick of waiting for prospects to bring us glory. We need to go out and grab it. My m.o. is if you have any shot to go all the way, do whatever it takes to do it. There's a limit of course...dont' give up Reed and Honel or anything like that, but you have to strike while the iron's hot. Getting Aloamr and Everett last year = good. Getting Garcia this year = good. The least you can do is try. Or else what's the point of playing?

Agree 100%. If the window of opportunity is there, go for it.

Haley's comet comes more frequently than White Sox WS appearances, or pretty damn close anyway.

For those still pining for Colon (of which I am one) Garcia would most likely be an upgrade over Colon IMO. Add to that the fact he is hitting his prime, he could be an ace. His stuff is that good. Of course that is assuming we can re-sign him long term and not destroy the nucleus we already have. It would be a strain on the payroll, but with some of what comes off the books this year hopefully a winning team will put more money in the coffers and allow us some flexibility.

Get him. Now.

OEO Magglio
05-04-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
Agree 100%. If the window of opportunity is there, go for it.

Haley's comet comes more frequently than White Sox WS appearances, or pretty damn close anyway.

For those still pining for Colon (of which I am one) Garcia would most likely be an upgrade over Colon IMO. Add to that the fact he is hitting his prime, he could be an ace. His stuff is that good. Of course that is assuming we can re-sign him long term and not destroy the nucleus we already have. It would be a strain on the payroll, but with some of what comes off the books this year hopefully a winning team will put more money in the coffers and allow us some flexibility.

Get him. Now.
I completely agree with everything you just said. If Garcia is out there, KW has to go get him. Obviously Kenny is going to have to wait a while to try and get freddy, but if he can get him away from seattle and bring him to the southside, 1-5 the sox would have a pretty solid rotation: Elo, Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, Shoney, that looks awesome to me, but I guess we're going to have to wait and see.

batmanZoSo
05-04-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
Agree 100%. If the window of opportunity is there, go for it.

Haley's comet comes more frequently than White Sox WS appearances, or pretty damn close anyway.

For those still pining for Colon (of which I am one) Garcia would most likely be an upgrade over Colon IMO. Add to that the fact he is hitting his prime, he could be an ace. His stuff is that good. Of course that is assuming we can re-sign him long term and not destroy the nucleus we already have. It would be a strain on the payroll, but with some of what comes off the books this year hopefully a winning team will put more money in the coffers and allow us some flexibility.

Get him. Now.

I don't know who we can give them for him. I don't see JR swallowing his pride and trading away the biggest bonus baby in history. Not that anyone in this organization values their own pride over improvement. But if we do get him, we have to re-sign him. While you have to "go for it," you can't keep doing it and ending up with no prospects and no stud. WE've been doing that for years now.

dougs78
05-04-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Well, not really. Assuming you resign Maggs, there's 14M there. Frank will get 8M, another 8M for Konerko, 7M for Carlos, Buehrle will get his 6M. Want to re-sign Loaiza? Not at 4M, assuming he gives us 16-18 wins this year. Crede, Uribe, Harris will be on the cheap as well as most of our bullpen, however. Your'e looking at 55-60M and that's not including Valentin, Koch or the likes. I am including Konerko in the above scenario unless, or course, we get some team to take his albatross salary off our hands either this year or in the off season.


Precisely Mickster. I'm not saying it would be impossible for us to resign Freddy Garcia, I'm just saying that I would not count on it. At the very least I would be that if we did resign Garcia, it would mean NOT resigning Loaiza. You can debate which is better, but still no way we can get both along with keeping Maggs. If we don't resign Maggs, then I suppose we could use all that money on pitching, however, with JR's history I would not count on that.

Randar68
05-05-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
Interesting to see you say that Randar, because whenever I said something to that effect in regards to Ozzie helping us sign players, you pretty much ripped me a new one and told me how money talks. IIRC it was regarding Garcia and/or Urbina. $$$$$ talks, or something like that.

In fairness to you, that was a couple months ago. But I have a long memory :D:

And guess what...for once I agree with you.

Better clear that with Mr. Reinsdorf, however, just to be safe.

My contention, IIRC, was that Urbina wasn't going to sign a 1 million dollar contract with the Sox when he was looking for 3+, just because he's Ozzie's friend.

Garcia is likely playing to test the FA market, my main point was that he may be willing to talk contract prior to that if he likes Ozzie and this team. I'm still not sure we'd get much of a discount, but nobody is going to take a 50% plus pay cut because they like Ozzie, which is along the lines of what you though Urbina would be willing to do.

beckett21
05-05-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
My contention, IIRC, was that Urbina wasn't going to sign a 1 million dollar contract with the Sox when he was looking for 3+, just because he's Ozzie's friend.

Garcia is likely playing to test the FA market, my main point was that he may be willing to talk contract prior to that if he likes Ozzie and this team. I'm still not sure we'd get much of a discount, but nobody is going to take a 50% plus pay cut because they like Ozzie, which is along the lines of what you though Urbina would be willing to do.

First off let me apologize for putting words in your mouth if I did. I didn't mean to do that and I certainly don't like when people do it to me, so my apologies if that is what I did. Your statement just struck me as contradictory given previous *debates* we have had. Just my interpretation.

Secondly, Urbina was not going to get what he wanted anywhere. That much was obvious. The guy was either going to sit out or go to Japan. I do not recall implying that he would take a 50% pay cut. Maybe that's how the numbers worked out, but his true market value and his own *perceived* market value were obviously way off. Ozzie may have been able to talk some sense into the guy. He was staying at Ozzie's house for crying out loud. Sitting out=$0. Easy math there.

My contention overall was that the White Sox could become a destination team for players that like Ozzie-- he would be a manager they would want to play for; free agents who may not have given us a sniff before might suddenly have at least some interest. And by reading your post quoted above, you imply the same thing. ("....if he likes Ozzie and this team.")

Nobody plays the game for free. I'm not that naive.

Like I said, ultimately I agree with you on this one. Being friends with Ozzie can only help us with negotiations. Doesn't make it a lock, but it helps.

Let's get Garcia to help us this year, and worry about the rest later. He could do a lot of good for us right now.

SEALgep
05-05-2004, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
My contention, IIRC, was that Urbina wasn't going to sign a 1 million dollar contract with the Sox when he was looking for 3+, just because he's Ozzie's friend.

Garcia is likely playing to test the FA market, my main point was that he may be willing to talk contract prior to that if he likes Ozzie and this team. I'm still not sure we'd get much of a discount, but nobody is going to take a 50% plus pay cut because they like Ozzie, which is along the lines of what you though Urbina would be willing to do. Ya, we won't get him at 50%, but he may be more inclined to listen with a more open mind about deferments and such. You never know, but it doesn't hurt us that he's Ozzie friend.

mdep524
05-05-2004, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
Being friends with Ozzie can only help us with negotiations. Doesn't make it a lock, but it helps.

I agree with this in general, but then Ozzie's hiring was supposed to make resigning Roby Alomar "a lock," and we all know how that turned out.

(Although, on a side note, it turned out for the best- I'd hate to have Roby here now when even HE is acknowledging its time to hang 'em up.)

hose
05-10-2004, 11:16 PM
How about this trade:

Konerko , Rauch and Josh Stewart for Garcia and Olerud.

The Sox take on Olerud's 7.7 million contract and Garcia's 6.8 million.

Seattle dumps Olerud and cuts ties with Garcia and gets Konerko's 8 million for this year and next, plus two young pitchers.

If Seattle were to hold on to Garcia and not re-sign him they would only get a draft pick out of it. Rauch and Stewart are a better bet than a draft pick in my opinion so Seattle would be ahead.
Plus Seattle would be dropping two huge salaries off the pay roll and replacing their aging first baseman with a younger Konerko.
If Konerko didn't work out to their expectations Seattle would not be locked into him long term, only through 2005.

SoxxoS
05-10-2004, 11:21 PM
But we pick up an additional $5 million in salary if we do that...JR probably won't be up to that.

It is a good idea, and I would pull the trigger if it was possible.

beckett21
05-11-2004, 10:23 PM
Here's a recent Seattle Times article about Freddy in case anyone is interested. No mention of the Sox, but it's a good read.


Seattle Times Article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2001925237_mari11.html)