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View Full Version : When are we going to call Diaz up?


Mots09
05-04-2004, 11:14 AM
4-0

2.01 ERA


With only 4 starters as it is, why don't we call him up?

Randar68
05-04-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Mots09
4-0

2.01 ERA


With only 4 starters as it is, why don't we call him up?

We don't need a 5th starter for 2 weeks, why call him up to sit on the bench?

Mots09
05-04-2004, 11:28 AM
Don't need to use him exclusively as a starter on the MLB roster, why not throw him in some long relief roles. In turn this would prep him to face MLB hitters, and to know what to expect when he gets the start in another 2 weeks..

habibharu
05-04-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Mots09
Don't need to use him exclusively as a starter on the MLB roster, why not throw him in some long relief roles. In turn this would prep him to face MLB hitters, and to know what to expect when he gets the start in another 2 weeks.. i completely agree with this. we should bring cotts along in the same way. both should win a starting job next year

eurotrash35
05-04-2004, 11:30 AM
I agree. Mots, you should be a general manager.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Mots09
Don't need to use him exclusively as a starter on the MLB roster, why not throw him in some long relief roles. In turn this would prep him to face MLB hitters, and to know what to expect when he gets the start in another 2 weeks..

That worked so well for Rauch 2 years ago, right?

Let him get his regular turn in Charlotte. Sheeesh.

Mots09
05-04-2004, 11:36 AM
I agree with you Randar that it didn't work with Rausch, but look at Diaz's numbers! It's hard to overlook Diaz numbers. Diaz is tearing up AAA while JR is still kind of perfoming somewhere in the middle of the road..... It's time to pull the trigger, and get Diaz on our roster!

Randar68
05-04-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Mots09
I agree with you Randar that it didn't work with Rausch, but look at Diaz's numbers! It's hard to overlook Diaz numbers. Diaz is tearing up AAA while JR is still kind of perfoming somewhere in the middle of the road..... It's time to pull the trigger, and get Diaz on our roster!

Rauch has given up most of his runs on HR's in a hitter's park.

I don't really care which one at this point, but either Rauch or Diaz should get the next start in the 5th spot.

eurotrash35
05-04-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
That worked so well for Rauch 2 years ago, right?

Let him get his regular turn in Charlotte. Sheeesh.

Why wait? If we're going to call him up eventually might as well get him acclimated to life in the bigs and get him settled in before we throw him to the wolves against Minnesota or whoever we'd start him against in his debut. It's not like we don't have a roster spot for a good young pitching prospect.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by eurotrash35
Why wait? If we're going to call him up eventually might as well get him acclimated to life in the bigs and get him settled in before we throw him to the wolves against Minnesota or whoever we'd start him against in his debut. It's not like we don't have a roster spot for a good young pitching prospect.

Starters almost always perform better when they are on a set schedule or routine. You don't take a young starter, who had a history of helth issues, and go from starting, to relief, and back to starting for 2 weeks. If you're going to do that, you do it to a guy like Adkins or Grilli, not a legit starting pitching prospect.

eurotrash35
05-04-2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Starters almost always perform better when they are on a set schedule or routine. You don't take a young starter, who had a history of helth issues, and go from starting, to relief, and back to starting for 2 weeks. If you're going to do that, you do it to a guy like Adkins or Grilli, not a legit starting pitching prospect.

I think you're putting too much stock in "set schedules and routines." Going from AAA to a major league debut pretty much busts any sort of schedule or routine in place anyway. I also don't see how health issues have anything to do with this. We're not going to work him like a dog, and he'll get his reps either in games or just throwing before games.

habibharu
05-04-2004, 11:59 AM
does wright have any future? maybe as a reliever?

SEALgep
05-04-2004, 12:01 PM
It's better to give him starts in AAA, than to start him in the pen, only to have him be the fifth starter in a couple weeks. That doesn't make sense, it's different. Why screw him up when? Start a couple more times in AAA, and when we're ready to have our fifth starter, he'll get the call.

SEALgep
05-04-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
does wright have any future? maybe as a reliever? It's possible, but he needs to make some adjustments, mostly mental. He no longer can be a starter IMO, but he has a shot to become a solid reliever.

SEALgep
05-04-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Starters almost always perform better when they are on a set schedule or routine. You don't take a young starter, who had a history of helth issues, and go from starting, to relief, and back to starting for 2 weeks. If you're going to do that, you do it to a guy like Adkins or Grilli, not a legit starting pitching prospect. Exactly, it can only mess him up. The guy has been pitching great in a starters role, and changing that is unnecessary, especially for a two week time period. It's a risk that has little value. When we're ready for him to start, then he'll start.

TDog
05-04-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Mots09
... why not throw him in some long relief roles. ...

I'm hoping that with Wright gone there will be less need for long relief.

habibharu
05-04-2004, 12:09 PM
how bout munoz for 5th starter? or would that screw him up?

poorme
05-04-2004, 12:13 PM
I'm in favor of anything that gets Wright out of the rotation. I guess the first thing I'd try is Cotts in the rotation and Wright in the pen. Then maybe bring up that Bajenaru guy or whatever his name is to fill the bullpen spot.

DrCrawdad
05-04-2004, 12:20 PM
If the Sox are going to go with Diaz, as I expect they will, no doubt they'll fix on the date for Diaz' debut and then adjust the rotation at Charlotte so that he's on a schedule for the MLB debut.

Hondo
05-04-2004, 12:26 PM
Who is this Ryan Kohlmeier guy? He was mentioned in the trib article today.

Any substanitive info on him?

Lip Man 1
05-04-2004, 12:36 PM
The question was asked 'when are we going to call up Diaz?'

Hopefully never. The Sox have already thrown away four games with Danny Wright. Why compound the misery with Diaz.

Go out and get a pitcher who gives you a chance to win for the back end of the rotation.

Oh I find it interesting that some folks are mentioning Diaz' numbers in the minor leagues and using them to prove how good he is but other folks are using Valentin's rehab numbers as proof he's awful.

Folks...they are both minor league numbers. They are meaningless. You go with people who have a track record of producing in the major leagues. Which is why the Sox need to go out and trade for a pitcher with experience and they need to bring up valentin and bench harris.

In both cases they have proven they can get the job done at the big league level.

Lip

jeremyb1
05-04-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The question was asked 'when are we going to call up Diaz?'

Hopefully never. The Sox have already thrown away four games with Danny Wright. Why compound the misery with Diaz.

Nice scouting report, Lip.

JRIG
05-04-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
Who is this Ryan Kohlmeier guy? He was mentioned in the trib article today.

Any substanitive info on him?

He's a guy who was pretty bad with the Orioles a few years back but people thought he was good because he showed up in the 9th inning and protected some three run leads. The O's sent him to the minors the next season and he hooked on with the Sox where he's continued to be fairly unimpressive.

MRKARNO
05-04-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The question was asked 'when are we going to call up Diaz?'

Hopefully never. The Sox have already thrown away four games with Danny Wright. Why compound the misery with Diaz.

Go out and get a pitcher who gives you a chance to win for the back end of the rotation.

Oh I find it interesting that some folks are mentioning Diaz' numbers in the minor leagues and using them to prove how good he is but other folks are using Valentin's rehab numbers as proof he's awful.

Folks...they are both minor league numbers. They are meaningless. You go with people who have a track record of producing in the major leagues. Which is why the Sox need to go out and trade for a pitcher with experience and they need to bring up valentin and bench harris.

In both cases they have proven they can get the job done at the big league level.

Lip

I wonder exactly where the Marlins would be if they had not taken the initiative to call up Dontrelle Willis to the major league level. They probably would have missed the playoffs with Helling in that last rotation spot. It's worth the risk this early in the season. It can be corrected rather easily by the deadline if we promote him sooner rather than later.

iwannago
05-04-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
He's a guy who was pretty bad with the Orioles a few years back but people thought he was good because he showed up in the 9th inning and protected some three run leads. The O's sent him to the minors the next season and he hooked on with the Sox where he's continued to be fairly unimpressive.

I think the O's released him.

wdelaney72
05-04-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The question was asked 'when are we going to call up Diaz?'

Hopefully never. The Sox have already thrown away four games with Danny Wright. Why compound the misery with Diaz.

Go out and get a pitcher who gives you a chance to win for the back end of the rotation.

Lip

Good theory, but this won't happen until closer to the trade deadline. I think Rauch will get a shot before Diaz. The Sox have a lot more invested in him. Cotts will not (and should not be starting this year). Due to his services in the bullpen, he really isn't stretched out to pitch 7+ innings on a regular basis. He'll get a shot at the rotation next yaer. He's certainly earned it.

When the trades start flying, we definitely need a solid #1 starter, and a CF.

habibharu
05-04-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
He's a guy who was pretty bad with the Orioles a few years back but people thought he was good because he showed up in the 9th inning and protected some three run leads. The O's sent him to the minors the next season and he hooked on with the Sox where he's continued to be fairly unimpressive. actually he has been pretty impressive. 1-2 3.81 ERA, 24 SO in 28 IP

Randar68
05-04-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The question was asked 'when are we going to call up Diaz?'

Hopefully never. The Sox have already thrown away four games with Danny Wright. Why compound the misery with Diaz.

Go out and get a pitcher who gives you a chance to win for the back end of the rotation.

Oh I find it interesting that some folks are mentioning Diaz' numbers in the minor leagues and using them to prove how good he is but other folks are using Valentin's rehab numbers as proof he's awful.

Folks...they are both minor league numbers. They are meaningless. You go with people who have a track record of producing in the major leagues. Which is why the Sox need to go out and trade for a pitcher with experience and they need to bring up valentin and bench harris.

In both cases they have proven they can get the job done at the big league level.

Lip

I am now dumber for having read this.

Mots09
05-04-2004, 02:28 PM
So Lip what you are telling me is teams farm systems don't mean anything. How do you think big stars get to the bigs???? They perform in the minors. In turn those stats should be taken with a grain of salt, but when the numbers are so dominant (Diaz) you can't deny the fact he must be doing something right!

Jose is struggling right now batting .053 but you must remember he is coming off of an injury.

DrCrawdad
05-04-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I am now dumber for having read this.

LOL!

Obviously the numbers a player puts up in the minors may not directly help the ML team but having guys like Diaz, Munoz and others putting up good numbers in the minors is a good sign. At the very least, if the Sox minor league guys put up good numbers then they'll have greater value in trade.

I love my fellow Sox fans. However some of us complain about the negative media when when we have something positive, like a guy doing well in the minors, we go negative even about that.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
LOL!

Obviously the numbers a player puts up in the minors don't help the ML team but having guys like Diaz, Munoz and others putting up good numbers in the minors is a good sign. At the very least, if the Sox minor league guys put up good numbers then they'll have greater value in a trade.

I love my fellow Sox fans. However some of us complain about the negative media when when we have something positive, like a guy doing well in the minors, we go negative even about that.

Lip is the perfect example of the negative "media". There is nothing but rain and tornadoes in the forecast for him, and nothing short of a change in ownership could affect that, although, IMO, it would only be a short time before the sky was again falling...

:chickenlittle

Lip is one of the most negative and pessimistic fans out there. When there's nothing negative to talk about, he makes something up from the past or pure hypotheticals just to please himself.

It truly is an art to be able to turn gold into lead, as Lip so often attempts to do.

Konerko05
05-04-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The question was asked 'when are we going to call up Diaz?'

Hopefully never. The Sox have already thrown away four games with Danny Wright. Why compound the misery with Diaz.

Go out and get a pitcher who gives you a chance to win for the back end of the rotation.

Oh I find it interesting that some folks are mentioning Diaz' numbers in the minor leagues and using them to prove how good he is but other folks are using Valentin's rehab numbers as proof he's awful.

Folks...they are both minor league numbers. They are meaningless. You go with people who have a track record of producing in the major leagues. Which is why the Sox need to go out and trade for a pitcher with experience and they need to bring up valentin and bench harris.

In both cases they have proven they can get the job done at the big league level.

Lip

Then I guess Major League Baseball will be over in 15 years. How do you make a track record for yourself if you are never called up to the major leagues. Every player in the majors was once an unproven minor league player, even then greats. Thats how baseball works Lip.

pearso66
05-04-2004, 02:49 PM
As i stated in another post, if you are unwilling to give a minor leaguer a shot, why do we have them? Or if we dont use a guy because he has no experience, how does he gain experience? bringing up Diaz is completely different than throwing wright out there. With Wright it was almost guaranteed a loss, with Diaz, you don't know what is going to happen, What if he turns out to be a solid #3 guy? who cares, he doesn't have experience so he must suck

DrCrawdad
05-04-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Lip is the perfect example of the negative "media". There is nothing but rain and tornadoes in the forecast for him, and nothing short of a change in ownership could affect that, although, IMO, it would only be a short time before the sky was again falling...

:chickenlittle

Lip is one of the most negative and pessimistic fans out there. When there's nothing negative to talk about, he makes something up from the past or pure hypotheticals just to please himself.

It truly is an art to be able to turn gold into lead, as Lip so often attempts to do.

And I certainly don't want Sox fans to be like the numerable pabulum spewing Pollyanna Cubbie fans. An example of one such Pollyanna Cubbie fans on the SCORE this morning called Boers & Bernstein comparing Kyle Farnsworth to Lee Smith, and projecting big things from "young" Farnsworth, if only some people weren't so negative.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
As i stated in another post, if you are unwilling to give a minor leaguer a shot, why do we have them? Or if we dont use a guy because he has no experience, how does he gain experience? bringing up Diaz is completely different than throwing wright out there. With Wright it was almost guaranteed a loss, with Diaz, you don't know what is going to happen, What if he turns out to be a solid #3 guy? who cares, he doesn't have experience so he must suck


Don't you guys get it? Young players are supposed to come up with teams like Pittsburg, KC, Detroit, Tampa, etc. They get experience, and get used to losing, and then they can be stars when a team like the Sox signs or trades for them... Oh wait, then they're expensive and Jerry won't pay for it... Oh the HORROR!
:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

santo=dorf
05-04-2004, 03:05 PM
Lip Man1 says:Folks...they are both minor league numbers. They are meaningless. You go with people who have a track record of producing in the major leagues. Which is why the Sox need to go out and trade for a pitcher with experience and they need to bring up valentin and bench harris.

Well how exactly does one get into the major leagues in order to have a good track record? How many great players have come from the minor leagues? Why can't we give this kid at least one chance? Should we just let him pitch in the minors for the rest of his life?

TaylorStSox
05-04-2004, 03:59 PM
I've been a member of several message boards for years and this is the first time I've ever typed this. I'm about 2 posts away from just putting Lip on ignore. It's more about the redundance than the negativity.



Anyway, at this point, I'd be more inclined to give the starting job to Cotts. Diaz and Rauch will be the next 2 choices if Cotts fails.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I've been a member of several message boards for years and this is the first time I've ever typed this. I'm about 2 posts away from just putting Lip on ignore. It's more about the redundance than the negativity.



Anyway, at this point, I'd be more inclined to give the starting job to Cotts. Diaz and Rauch will be the next 2 choices if Cotts fails.

I'd agree, but we'd have 3 LH starters then, and one short in the LH reliever department with Kelly still throing 84 mph in Charlotte. Rauch or Diaz make sense from the perspective of continuity, but we shall see. A lot of time to go, and probably 2 Wright starts in the minors before anyone starts seriously talking inside the organization about who it will be.

maurice
05-04-2004, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I've been a member of several message boards for years and this is the first time I've ever typed this. I'm about 2 posts away from just putting Lip on ignore.

On the advice of a mod, I put him on "ignore" a long time ago, but I still get to read plenty of irrational pessimism from the other posters.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by maurice
On the advice of a mod, I put him on "ignore" a long time ago, but I still get to read plenty of irrational pessimism from the other posters.

I'm relatively sure he has me on "ignore", but I still enjoy ripping him a new one every time he makes a further ass of himself.

Hondo
05-04-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I've been a member of several message boards for years and this is the first time I've ever typed this. I'm about 2 posts away from just putting Lip on ignore. It's more about the redundance than the negativity.



Anyway, at this point, I'd be more inclined to give the starting job to Cotts. Diaz and Rauch will be the next 2 choices if Cotts fails.

yeah... i don't see them going with three southpaws. Ozzie really likes being able to get lefty, righty.

Cotts is too valuable in the bullpen right now.

I'd be inclined to give Rauch a shot.

Thigpen Rules
05-04-2004, 05:11 PM
I would give Diaz a shot or Cotts. rauch seems destined to be another Dan Wright IMO.

imagine Diaz comes up & sets the world on fire like Dontrelle did last year, ooooh, then we're talking,

Whomever it is is better than Wright though

Randar68
05-04-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Thigpen Rules
I would give Diaz a shot or Cotts. rauch seems destined to be another Dan Wright IMO.

imagine Diaz comes up & sets the world on fire like Dontrelle did last year, ooooh, then we're talking,

How would you know? The only MLB starts he's had when he wasn't hurt he absolutely dominated the Twinkies.

CWSGuy406
05-04-2004, 08:27 PM
Can someone remind me of how Diaz was aquired again? Was it the Charles Johnson trade a few years back? Sorry, I keep wanting to put Felix Diaz with Colorado.

CubKilla
05-04-2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
Can someone remind me of how Diaz was aquired again? Was it the Charles Johnson trade a few years back? Sorry, I keep wanting to put Felix Diaz with Colorado.

I'm almost positive he was acquired in '02 from SF for Kenny Lofton.

Lip Man 1
05-04-2004, 08:30 PM
Folks:

I don't believe in minor leaguers especially the Sox ones, it's not like we've been making an impact with them the last ten years have we?

The last 'golden age,' of Sox youngsters who produced was back in the early 90's. (and I'm referring to quantity as well as quality.) Before that you have to go back to the early 60's.

That philosophy hasn't worked for the Sox has it? How many years are you going to keep trying it? Take your youngsters and deal them for players who can play right now in the major leagues. Please stop with the 'potential' factor. When you haven't been to a World Series in oh, 44 years, you don't have time to wait for 'potential.'

My philosophy might be different if the Sox had at least gone to a series when I was at an age when I could actually remember it.

Stop grasping at straws and keep saying the Marlins who were a fluke last year just like the 2000 Sox. Having followed this club for 43 years I can say one thing with complete assurance, the Sox do not get 'lucky.'

"It's time," to try something else.

Jeremy are you still around? I thought the way Danny "I Can't Pitch" Wright has been 'producing,' that you (his biggest backer) would have been laying low.

Taylor please feel free to put me on ignore. Do it right now! You'll feel much better.

Of course Felix Diaz, whom the Giants practically gave away is going to be the next twenty game winner. (More like the next Scott Ruffcorn, Rod Bolton and Brian Keyser...remember them?)

Lip

ScottyTheSoxFan
05-04-2004, 10:48 PM
as long as wright isnt starting, we could be doing worse.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Of course Felix Diaz, whom the Giants practically gave away is going to be the next twenty game winner. (More like the next Scott Ruffcorn, Rod Bolton and Brian Keyser...remember them?)

Lip

You see Lip, you;re such a Boy who cried wolf zealot, that you can't differentiate prospects or possible "contributors" from so-called top prospects.

Every time you post these days, you make yourself look more outrageously and unabatedly pessimistic to the point of ignoring. Your points no longer have merit or value, as they've been covered over and over and over.

Nothing short of JR selling or the Sox having a top 5 payroll is going to make you happy, so you might as well stop rooting for the team, because Hell will freeze over before either happen in the near future.

Bringing everyone else down to your level doesn't make you bigger, it makes everyone else smaller. frankly, you can take every post of yours and stick it where the sun don't shine.

As much as media folks claim to be open-minded, I think Lip is a shining example of how negatively one-sided the media really is, especially in regards to the Sox, being a "Fan" of them or not.

OEO Magglio
05-04-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1



Of course Felix Diaz, whom the Giants practically gave away is going to be the next twenty game winner. (More like the next Scott Ruffcorn, Rod Bolton and Brian Keyser...remember them?)

Lip
Lip nobody is expecting Diaz to be a 20 game winner. What we all want from him is just to be a solid starter, and fill in the 5th spot nicely, and the way he's pitched in aaa warrants a shot to be that 5th starter and that's all anyone is saying, find me a post where someone says he's going to be a 20 game winner.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Lip nobody is expecting Diaz to be a 20 game winner. What we all want from him is just to be a solid starter, and fill in the 5th spot nicely, and the way he's pitched in aaa warrants a shot to be that 5th starter and that's all anyone is saying, find me a post where someone says he's going to be a 20 game winner.

You won't get that out of Lip, he's only adept at slippery-slope reasoning...

It's really just a stretch to try to use the word 'reason' in reference to Lip in any way shape or form...

gosox41
05-05-2004, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Hondo
yeah... i don't see them going with three southpaws. Ozzie really likes being able to get lefty, righty.

Cotts is too valuable in the bullpen right now.

I'd be inclined to give Rauch a shot.


IMHO, a guy is never to valuable in the pen that he can't start. If a pitcher is going to be a stud, I'd rather be getting 200 +IP a year out of him as a starter then 60 a a reliever.


Bob