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fledgedrallycap
05-04-2004, 09:38 AM
For the sake of argument, let's say Rowand continues to struggle and the Sox remain hesitant to give Timo Perez the jig; what would you like to see the White Sox do come July?

If Reed and/or Borchard are healthy and playing well, do you go that route and roll the dice.

OR

Do you test the market and see if you can land a rent-a-player or negotiate a big contract player from another team. I have been looking online and noticed Steve Finley from ARZ is on the last year of his deal. He is a pretty steady player, but getting up there in age. Another player worth mentioning is Grissom on SF.

Knowing how the Sox do business and who might fit the mold well, my money is on Steve Finley.

Bobby Thigpen
05-04-2004, 09:44 AM
Carlos Beltran

Randar68
05-04-2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
Do you test the market and see if you can land a rent-a-player or negotiate a big contract player from another team. I have been looking online and noticed Steve Finley from ARZ is on the last year of his deal. He is a pretty steady player, but getting up there in age. Another player worth mentioning is Grissom on SF.

Knowing how the Sox do business and who might fit the mold well, my money is on Steve Finley.

You can only make these kinds of deals so often before your system is totally shot. If anything, I'd much prefer Reed get the shot and the Sox, if they make any moves, to go after a legit starter (Garcia, Benson, etc), than a CF'er unless they can get a legit CF/lead-off man.

habibharu
05-04-2004, 11:30 AM
put harris in center

Fisk72
05-04-2004, 11:33 AM
I know we have Reed waiting in the wings, but this is an option that doesn't come around too often - Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1794987) Granted, this creates a logjam, with Magglio and Carlos taking up the other current spots, but this would be one pipedream that I'd like to drink to :gulp: . Of course, the whole Boras-Reinsdorf relationship pretty much bursts my bubble and sends me back to earth.

bobj4400
05-04-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
For the sake of argument, let's say Rowand continues to struggle and the Sox remain hesitant to give Timo Perez the jig; what would you like to see the White Sox do come July?

If Reed and/or Borchard are healthy and playing well, do you go that route and roll the dice.

OR

Do you test the market and see if you can land a rent-a-player or negotiate a big contract player from another team. I have been looking online and noticed Steve Finley from ARZ is on the last year of his deal. He is a pretty steady player, but getting up there in age. Another player worth mentioning is Grissom on SF.

Knowing how the Sox do business and who might fit the mold well, my money is on Steve Finley.

I would rather have Finley over Grissom b/c he would add a much needed left handed bat to our lineup.

Tekijawa
05-04-2004, 11:35 AM
Hear me out on this one...

What if we:

Trade for Beltran, I know that the Royals wouldn't want him to go to someone in their division, but we could offer outfield help in prospects... Sign Beltran LONG TERM and let Maggs walk at the end of the season or sign both cheap after winning it all ... Our Prospects are all better Corner outfielders any way and Beltran would more than fill in for the loss of Maggs let's not forget that this would also put a switch hitting speedster at the top of the order... ANYONE?

Randar68
05-04-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Hear me out on this one...

What if we:

Trade for Beltran, I know that the Royals wouldn't want him to go to someone in their division, but we could offer outfield help in prospects... Sign Beltran LONG TERM and let Maggs walk at the end of the season or sign both cheap after winning it all ... Our Prospects are all better Corner outfielders any way and Beltran would more than fill in for the loss of Maggs... ANYONE?

Agree with one thing:

For 14 million, I'd much rather have Beltran than Maggs.

PS> Brian Anderson is a pure CF prospect.

jabrch
05-04-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Hear me out on this one...

What if we:

Trade for Beltran, I know that the Royals wouldn't want him to go to someone in their division, but we could offer outfield help in prospects... Sign Beltran LONG TERM and let Maggs walk at the end of the season or sign both cheap after winning it all ... Our Prospects are all better Corner outfielders any way and Beltran would more than fill in for the loss of Maggs let's not forget that this would also put a switch hitting speedster at the top of the order... ANYONE?


In a heartbeat - I'd do it. But what do you think KC would want for Beltran?

hint: A LOT

And I would rather resign Beltran as a FA than sign Magglio - as much as I like Magglio, Beltran is a superior defender at a harder position, every bit as good a hitter, and a much better baserunner. I think Beltran is the prize FA in this year's class and I think he will end up getting huge money from the Yanks or something of that ilk.

Tekijawa
05-04-2004, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
In a heartbeat - I'd do it. But what do you think KC would want for Beltran?

hint: A LOT

Kenny has shown his willingness to give up a lot in the past to get what he needs, or thinks he needs in the case of Todd Ritchie, I shure hope he feels he needs Beltran... After all durring Soxfest he promised us that we would go out and make moves in June and July if we were in contention... Well sole possesion of First is contention enough for me, and I'm sure they Royals doing as well as they are doing right now would like to start unloading some salary right around that time... Beltran seems to be in the same mold of Latin players that "Love to play for Ozzie" too...

I can dream can't I?

habibharu
05-04-2004, 12:00 PM
id be willing to give up reed if we could get beltran

MRKARNO
05-04-2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
id be willing to give up reed if we could get beltran

It would only make sense if we were able to retain Beltran. Reed for 2-4 months of Beltran doesnt make sense. Reed for 5 years of Beltran at his prime makes perfect sense. They need pitching so they might be willing to take one of our AA guys not named Honel or a package of the AA guys.

Note: 9 million dollar salary this year for Beltran.

Contenders and whether or not they need a CFer:

In Need:

Padres: Jay Payton
Athletics: Kotsay/Byrnes
White Sox: Aaron Rowand

Not in Need:

Red Sox Jonny Damon
Braves: Andrew Jones
Angels: Garret Anderson
Marlins: Juan Pierre
Cardinals: Jim Edmonds
Dodgers: Milton Bradley
Twins: Torii Hunter

Questionable need:
Astros: Craig Biggio
Cubs: Corey Patterson
Phillies: Marlon Byrd
Yankees: Lofton and Bernie Williams

Of the these contenders I think that there are only three teams Beltran would most realistically go to: The Padres, The Yankees and the White Sox. If we're looking real good and Reinsdorf decides to open the pockets for a serious run at the playoffs, which he has been known to do ever since the White Flag trade, I wouldn't be shocked if we got Beltran. Nobody ever expected us to be in the running for Bartolo Colon. The Red Sox, Yankees and other richer teams were mentioned constantly as pursuers. The only problem is that the Royals might be reluctant to trade Beltran to someone in their division, but if they're getting a good amount in return, they might not care too much.

habibharu
05-04-2004, 12:36 PM
how bout chris young, ryan meaux, and jon rauch for beltran?

iwannago
05-04-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
id be willing to give up reed if we could get beltran

With the current owner's, how long do you think we would keep Beltran?

Tekijawa
05-04-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
With the current owner's, how long do you think we would keep Beltran?
I'd be more worried about getting him here first...

iwannago
05-04-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I'd be more worried about getting him here first...

Good point!!!

wdelaney72
05-04-2004, 12:58 PM
I love Maggs, but I would take Beltran in a heartbeat.

Come next year, the Sox lose
1) Jose $5 million
2) Koch $6 million
Maggs already makes $14 million this year and it doesn't appear that his yearly rate will be more than that. I'd love to be able to keep both Maggs and Beltran. Now that's a nice outfield!

Tekijawa
05-04-2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
I love Maggs, but I would take Beltran in a heartbeat.

Come next year, the Sox lose
1) Jose $5 million
2) Koch $6 million
Maggs already makes $14 million this year and it doesn't appear that his yearly rate will be more than that. I'd love to be able to keep both Maggs and Beltran. Now that's a nice outfield!

Although I don't like the thought of it Frank I think also has an option out of his contract next year.

I'd also like to point out that 35.5 Million of a 65 Million dollar payroll should not be spent on an outfield. As great as it sounds if for some reason we would land Beltran , I think we could only "afford" one of either Maggs or Beltran. Unless there was an ownership change!

habibharu
05-04-2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
I love Maggs, but I would take Beltran in a heartbeat.

Come next year, the Sox lose
1) Jose $5 million
2) Koch $6 million
Maggs already makes $14 million this year and it doesn't appear that his yearly rate will be more than that. I'd love to be able to keep both Maggs and Beltran . Now that's a nice outfield! let me fix that for you:

Randar68
05-04-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
I love Maggs, but I would take Beltran in a heartbeat.

Come next year, the Sox lose
1) Jose $5 million
2) Koch $6 million
Maggs already makes $14 million this year and it doesn't appear that his yearly rate will be more than that. I'd love to be able to keep both Maggs and Beltran. Now that's a nice outfield!

Don't forget Konerko and his 8.5 million is gone...

Loaiza's 3.5 million comes off the books, but it's going to cost probably all of Koch's lost salary to keep him.

Either way, I'd trade Konerko and Valentin for Beltran in a heartbeat, which is essentially what it would be with no other changes.

Trade Carlos Lee (or put him at 1B) and put Reed in LF where he would be one of the best in the AL.

now THAT is an OF.

IF of Crede, Uribe, Harris, and ??? at 1B...

JRIG
05-04-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Don't forget Konerko and his 8.5 million is gone...

Loaiza's 3.5 million comes off the books, but it's going to cost probably all of Koch's lost salary to keep him.

Either way, I'd trade Konerko and Valentin for Beltran in a heartbeat, which is essentially what it would be with no other changes.

Trade Carlos Lee (or put him at 1B) and put Reed in LF where he would be one of the best in the AL.

now THAT is an OF.

IF of Crede, Uribe, Harris, and ??? at 1B...

Unless I'm really, really off, Konerko is still here next year. At least contract-wise.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Unless I'm really, really off, Konerko is still here next year. At least contract-wise.

You could be right, but for some reason I was thinking he was gone after this year... my bad.

JDP
05-04-2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
IFof Crede, Uribe, Harris, and ??? at 1B...

1B: Ross Gload.

Unfortunately, Konerko, who is due a raise next year as well, is still on the South Side through 2005. That's $8.5 million that is sorely needed elsewhere.

Mickster
05-04-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Don't forget Konerko and his 8.5 million is gone...

Loaiza's 3.5 million comes off the books, but it's going to cost probably all of Koch's lost salary to keep him.

Either way, I'd trade Konerko and Valentin for Beltran in a heartbeat, which is essentially what it would be with no other changes.

Trade Carlos Lee (or put him at 1B) and put Reed in LF where he would be one of the best in the AL.

now THAT is an OF.

IF of Crede, Uribe, Harris, and ??? at 1B...

Randar,

PK's contract is THROUGH 2005. He's gone at the end of 2005, not this year!

Randar68
05-04-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Randar,

PK's contract is THROUGH 2005. He's gone at the end of 2005, not this year!

Doh, thanks again. One can always hope, LOL!

Mickster
05-04-2004, 03:32 PM
Here is my post in Freddy Garcia Anyone?

Assuming you resign Maggs, there's 14M there. Frank will get 8M, another 8M for Konerko, 7M for Carlos, Buehrle will get his 6M. Want to re-sign Loaiza? Not at 4M, assuming he gives us 16-18 wins this year. Crede, Uribe, Harris will be on the cheap as well as most of our bullpen, however. Your'e looking at 55-60M and that's not including Valentin, Koch or the likes. I am including Konerko in the above scenario unless, or course, we get some team to take his albatross salary off our hands either this year or in the off season.

We really are not that "Flexible" for 2005 payroll....

Randar68
05-04-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Here is my post in Freddy Garcia Anyone?



We really are not that "Flexible" for 2005 payroll....

In order to calculate how much we are "freeing up", you need to account for the total change in salary from this year to next...

Koch and Valentin are almost 12 million between the 2. Loaiza is 3.5 million off the books. Konerko and Lee are around 16 or 17 million between the 2 (contracts coming off the books in the near future)

Maggs makes 14 million this year, so 14 million next year would be zero net change.

You have the 15 million from Koch, Valentin and Loaiza to give raises to people or sign FA's. Loaiza, Buehrle, Lee's raise, Thomas' raise.

In the end, they'll have around 5-8 million to "play with".

If they chose to do so, signing Beltran isn't out of the question, but they'd have to let Maggs go to do it. Also, With Konerko and Lee coming off the books over the next year or 2, they'll also have that long-term money to spend to some degree, if they feel the right FA's are there for the taking. I do think Lee is trade-able, so if they signed another OF'er like Beltran, Lee could be dealt to help balance the salary, IMO.

Kenny has shown a lot of flexibility and creativity given the constraints he has to operate under. I am confident he'll be able to make moves if he finds ones he likes...

poorme
05-04-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Loaiza is 3.5 million off the books.

That's not a good thing at all.

Mickster
05-04-2004, 03:48 PM
Randar,

Another thing to consider is the possibility of an increase in payroll. We can complain all we want about what our payroll SHOULD be but it has gone up considerably the last 4 years. If attendance is good this year, and no reason to think it will not be, then you can probably add 5-8M in increase to the payroll "cap" that JR places on the team next year. Hopefully we'll have 70-72M to work with for 2005! (notice this is not in deep pink)

Randar68
05-04-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Randar,

Another thing to consider is the possibility of an increase in payroll. We can complain all we want about what our payroll SHOULD be but it has gone up considerably the last 4 years. If attendance is good this year, and no reason to think it will not be, then you can probably add 5-8M in increase to the payroll "cap" that JR places on the team next year. Hopefully we'll have 70-72M to work with for 2005! (notice this is not in deep pink)

I don't know, season ticket sales were down and the Yankees have already been to town and are gone. They're going to have to have a great summer in order to really make a marked improvement in attendance from last year, IMO.

nasox
05-04-2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I don't know, season ticket sales were down and the Yankees have already been to town and are gone. They're going to have to have a great summer in order to really make a marked improvement in attendance from last year, IMO. '

I say if we get 2.2-2.3 million and we run far into the playoffs (past the first round), 70-72 million payroll is not out of the question. To quote JR (loosely), "We aren't out to make money, but we don't want to loose money." Knowing this isn't true, I don't think 70-72 million is too far off.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by nasox
'

I say if we get 2.2-2.3 million and we run far into the playoffs (past the first round), 70-72 million payroll is not out of the question. To quote JR (loosely), "We aren't out to make money, but we don't want to loose money." Knowing this isn't true, I don't think 70-72 million is too far off.

I think all those scenarios are the optimistic perspective at the least... We haven't won a playoff series in how long?

Mickster
05-04-2004, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I think all those scenarios are the optimistic perspective at the least... We haven't won a playoff series in how long?

Didn't even get to the playoffs last year and payroll still went up. It's possible...