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Thigpen Rules
05-03-2004, 09:41 PM
When Valentin returns, Leave Valentin as a bat off the bench/backup, Uribe won 2 games this week with his defense with plays Valentin would of never made, Tonight to end the game & during the Jay series when he went deep in the hole & got a force out. Plus he's hitting lights out, Ive seen enough of Valentin & his awful glove past 2 years & not hitting lefties.

please Ozzie your doing great, dont mess this up & dont bench Willie

ode to veeck
05-03-2004, 09:42 PM
I've been a big Manos fan for years, but Uribe has more than earned the right to stay at SS, best we've had in years

OEO Magglio
05-03-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Thigpen Rules
When Valentin returns, Leave Valentin as a bat off the bench/backup, Uribe won 2 games this week with his defense with plays Valentin would of never made, Tonight to end the game & during the Jay series when he went deep in the hole & got a force out. Plus he's hitting lights out, Ive seen enough of Valentin & his awful glove past 2 years & not hitting lefties.

please Ozzie your doing great, dont mess this up & dont bench Willie
No doubt that, that was a great play by Juan to save Billy, but Jose would have made that play too.

Randar68
05-03-2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Thigpen Rules
When Valentin returns, Leave Valentin as a bat off the bench/backup, Uribe won 2 games this week with his defense with plays Valentin would of never made, Tonight to end the game & during the Jay series when he went deep in the hole & got a force out. Plus he's hitting lights out, Ive seen enough of Valentin & his awful glove past 2 years & not hitting lefties.

please Ozzie your doing great, dont mess this up & dont bench Willie

It's definitely hard to bench Willie, he's just finding his groove and gaining confidence... tough decisions ahead...

MRKARNO
05-03-2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
No doubt that, that was a great play by Juan to save Billy, but Jose would have made that play too.

Valentin has very good range. Uribe's range might be among the best in the majors. Just look at the range factor over the years

Lip Man 1
05-03-2004, 09:45 PM
With respect...Uribe must stay at second base.

Lip

delben91
05-03-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
It's definitely hard to bench Willie, he's just finding his groove and gaining confidence... tough decisions ahead...

These are the good kind of decisions to have to make though.

Randar68
05-03-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
With respect...Uribe must stay at second base.

Lip

with respect to whom?

I'm ok with Jose at SS and Uribe at t2B as long as it means Willie going out to CF instead of Rowand.

Hondo
05-03-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
With respect...Uribe must stay at second base.

Lip


With respect...I dont know if Jose makes that play tonight.

OEO Magglio
05-03-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
with respect to whom?

I'm ok with Jose at SS and Uribe at t2B as long as it means Willie going out to CF instead of Rowand.
That's what the sox have to do, willie in cf, juan at 2b, and jose at ss.

RavenswoodFan
05-03-2004, 09:50 PM
I agree,
Uribe is adoing a much better job than Jose ever did! Keep him in!

Hondo
05-03-2004, 09:50 PM
As long as Uribe is in the lineup that's what matters and Ozzie knows that. He said he was the team's MVP in the first month. You don't sit him.

THat being said Jose shouldn't lose his job to injury.

Palehose13
05-03-2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
That's what the sox have to do, willie in cf, juan at 2b, and jose at ss.

YES!

Thigpen Rules
05-03-2004, 09:53 PM
yeah but Jose is such a horrid fielder, he makes so may errors, yeah he has rang but so does Uribe,

I would like to at least play Willie @ centetr but our defense at short is what im worried about.

Hondo
05-03-2004, 09:55 PM
I like Willie at CF. If for nothing else than not having to see Rowand run around like a chicken with his head cut off half the time when a ball is hit his way.

batmanZoSo
05-03-2004, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
With respect...Uribe must stay at second base.

Lip

This is true. Valentin has never played second obefre, at least not with us....Uribe has proven he's pretty good at second. That means Harris is out, but hey, choices.

Nard
05-03-2004, 09:58 PM
Why not put Jose at 2B or CF?

How many errors, even run-scoring errors has he committed this season at the SS position?

And then how many has Uribe committed?

Do you really think Jose would've made that play to save the game today?

One thing's for sure: Rowand needs to go.

chisox1388
05-03-2004, 09:59 PM
I've got the solution. Keep Uribe at short, keep Harris at second, and place Valentin in centerfield, cuz Rowand ain't doing anything. This way:

1. We still have our good up the middle defense.
2. Juan can stay at short, which he has been outstanding at both on o and d.
3. Willie can stay at second and continue to develop into a decent player.
4. Jose's bat can still be used, and his defense won't cost us.
5. We can get Rowand out of the lineup.

OEO Magglio
05-03-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by chisox1388
I've got the solution. Keep Uribe at short, keep Harris at second, and place Valentin in centerfield, cuz Rowand ain't doing anything. This way:

1. We still have our good up the middle defense.
2. Juan can stay at short, which he has been outstanding at both on o and d.
3. Willie can stay at second and continue to develop into a decent player.
4. Jose's bat can still be used, and his defense won't cost us.
5. We can get Rowand out of the lineup.
NO, NO, NO, Jose is not a centerfielder, Willie can play center not Jose, we tried that already, lets not try that again.

voodoochile
05-03-2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
NO, NO, NO, Jose is not a centerfielder, Willie can play center not Jose, we tried that already, lets not try that again.

translation: AGGGGGHHHHHH!

And I completely agree...

batmanZoSo
05-03-2004, 10:05 PM
Valentin in CF? Eff it, put Frank out there.

voodoochile
05-03-2004, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Valentin in CF? Eff it, put Frank out there.

go with Konerko and put Frank at first. After all, Konerko has a stolen base and speed is very important in CF.

Lip Man 1
05-03-2004, 10:13 PM
Folks:

With respect this is not rocket science. Valentin plays short, Uribe plays second.

Willie Harris sits on the end of the bench and rots until he learns to hit or gets sent back down to Charlotte. The only time he ever appears in a major league game with the Sox is if they need a pinch runner or perhaps a defensive replacement in CF (I base that on his speed not necessarily because he's a good fielder...just that he can cover a lot of ground.)

Willie Harris.....he gone.

Lip

DSpivack
05-03-2004, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
go with Konerko and put Frank at first. After all, Konerko has a stolen base and speed is very important in CF.

No teal? Or so overtly sarcastic no teal needed?

Nard
05-03-2004, 10:15 PM
Let Jose roast down there a little bit.

Let's take a look at his brilliant work in Charlotte:

Thu Apr 29: 0-4, 2 K
Fri Apr 20: 0-4, 2 K
Sat May 1: 0-3, 2 K (he did not draw a BB; it was ended early)
Sun May 2: 1-4, 2 K
Mon May 3: 0-4, 3 K

For a grand total of:

.053 (1-19), 11 K


And you wanna send down Willie Harris, Lip? Who is currently hitting better than Maggs?

Mmn-nhn.

voodoochile
05-03-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
No teal? Or so overtly sarcastic no teal needed?

Unless it is a post talking about some part of my job as moderator, just read most of what I write in teal. It's simpler that way... :D:

OEO Magglio
05-03-2004, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

With respect this is not rocket science. Valentin plays short, Uribe plays second.

Willie Harris sits on the end of the bench and rots until he learns to hit or gets sent back down to Charlotte. The only time he ever appears in a major league game with the Sox is if they need a pinch runner or perhaps a defensive replacement in CF (I base that on his speed not necessarily because he's a good fielder...just that he can cover a lot of ground.)

Willie Harris.....he gone.

Lip
Lip, until willie gets a hit?? Come on now he's hitting somewhere around .280, and to me it looks his eye continues to get better, and that's why he's getting more hits, atleast that's what it looks like to me. You have to keep letting willie play he's a spark and he looks real good right now.

voodoochile
05-03-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Nard
And you wanna send down Willie Harris, Lip? Who is currently hitting better than Maggs?

Your what hurts? By what standard is Harris outhitting Maggs? I mean if batting average were all that mattered, okay, but this is a gross oversimplification as is your point about Jose and his 19 at bats...

Maybe he's bored...

Nard
05-03-2004, 10:20 PM
I'm not saying he's a better hitter than Maggs.

But the guy's been on fire the past few games. Just absolute fire.

batmanZoSo
05-03-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
No teal? Or so overtly sarcastic no teal needed?

I'm gonna go with the latter. I hope he didn't think I was being serious. lol Or he might have done that to show how it's confusing to be sarcastic, even if it's thick, and not use teal. I think you can go without it sometimes. That was pretty obvious. If you don't get it, too bad. Not that I consciously did that, I just plum forgot.

On the topic at hand, Jose plays short, Uribe second, Willie in center until he slumps. That's when you give A Row a little stretch of playing time and have Uribe lead off. It's not all that complicated this situation.

Brian26
05-03-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

With respect this is not rocket science. Valentin plays short, Uribe plays second.

Willie Harris sits on the end of the bench and rots until he learns to hit or gets sent back down to Charlotte. The only time he ever appears in a major league game with the Sox is if they need a pinch runner or perhaps a defensive replacement in CF (I base that on his speed not necessarily because he's a good fielder...just that he can cover a lot of ground.)

Willie Harris.....he gone.

Lip

Lip,

Have you seen a White Sox game lately? Willie Harris is playing his behind off, getting big hits, making big defensive plays, and generally looking like a pretty decent major league ballplayer. My feeling right now is that you don't fix it if it ain't broke. Meanwhile, Jose is 1 for 15 in triple A ball. Uribe stays at short. Harris stays at second. Jose comes back into the lineup when one of the other two guys begins to falter.

nodiggity59
05-03-2004, 10:25 PM
Willie is hitting. He will be better. From what he's shown us this year, I doubt he will hit less than .270. With his speed, we have to take that chance. It's not like he's around the Mendoza line.

My only problem with Willie in center, if someone can answer, is I think he has a terrible arm. I'm not sure though. In any case, if there's one guy who needs to go, it's Crash.

basilesox
05-03-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

With respect this is not rocket science. Valentin plays short, Uribe plays second.

Willie Harris sits on the end of the bench and rots until he learns to hit or gets sent back down to Charlotte. The only time he ever appears in a major league game with the Sox is if they need a pinch runner or perhaps a defensive replacement in CF (I base that on his speed not necessarily because he's a good fielder...just that he can cover a lot of ground.)

Willie Harris.....he gone.

Lip

I nominate this for post of the year......I am amazed at how many people want Harris in instead of Valentin......What Ignorance? Have you even watched the Sox play over the last few years. Media hypes says Valentin is a bad SS......Yeah he makes errors but he has great range and a cannon arm. Rafeal Furcal makes more errors then anyone at SS....but he has the best range and arm in the majors.....it seems to come with the territory...translation: great range at SS and 2B with a poor hitting Willie Harris on the bench....And a SS that can hit 25 to 30 HR which gives us the most power on one team in the entire league in my opinion. (Considering I believe Crede will hit 30+ this year.

oheeoh...magglio
05-03-2004, 10:29 PM
I vote for Willie in CF, Jose at 2B, and Uribe as SS, with Rowand the odd man out.

I have NO FAITH in Rowand at the plate or in the field.

Willie's speed could be a major asset in CF, and his bat is improving.

Jose's great range could also be an asset at 2B, and having shorter throws to make would IMO minimize his errors, as most of them are throwing errors.

Uribe is a superb SS in the field, end of story.

Happy Felsch Fan
05-03-2004, 10:31 PM
If Julio Franco can play 1st then I bet Jose would be one great 1st base guy. Platoon him with Paulie at 1st, Willie at 2nd, uribe at short and Joe at third, for carlos in left with rowand in center and give mags a rest in right. jose can truly play anywhere. I bet he can close games too. he has a good arm.

basilesox
05-03-2004, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Lip,

Have you seen a White Sox game lately? Willie Harris is playing his behind off, getting big hits, making big defensive plays, and generally looking like a pretty decent major league ballplayer. My feeling right now is that you don't fix it if it ain't broke. Meanwhile, Jose is 1 for 15 in triple A ball. Uribe stays at short. Harris stays at second. Jose comes back into the lineup when one of the other two guys begins to falter.

If Willie Harris is playing his but off then he just isn't a major league caliber player. The sox played very well when Valentin was at SS too.......I was extremely impressed with how we played the Yankees in NY even know we only split. (Valentin hit very well in that series)

Did you even see Harris try to put that bunt down the other day in the ninth with 2 outs and the winning run on third. You know that Valentin would have either lined a single to right or slammed one over the right field wall......You are talking about our best hitter in the clutch since 2000.

idseer
05-03-2004, 10:34 PM
also with respect ... uribe should be permanent shortstop now.
and willie should play second unless he reverts to the old willie.
jose needs to be kept on the bench for lefty ph duties.
his crappy contract should NOT dictate the best lineup the sox can put on the field!

basilesox
05-03-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Lip,

Have you seen a White Sox game lately? Willie Harris is playing his behind off, getting big hits, making big defensive plays, and generally looking like a pretty decent major league ballplayer. My feeling right now is that you don't fix it if it ain't broke. Meanwhile, Jose is 1 for 15 in triple A ball. Uribe stays at short. Harris stays at second. Jose comes back into the lineup when one of the other two guys begins to falter.

one more thing I forgot....

Brian.......

Have you seen any White Sox games since Valentin's arrival....I'll just pick one.....Sox 10 Cubs 9......Last Year.

stillz
05-03-2004, 10:35 PM
Rowand should sit, and Willie should be in center. I hate the idea of giving up on Aaron this early, but Harris is playing better and Uribe's the man.

Brian26
05-03-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
Did you even see Harris try to put that bunt down the other day in the ninth with 2 outs and the winning run on third.

Yeah. It was an AWFUL idea.


Originally posted by basilesox
You know that Valentin would have either lined a single to right or slammed one over the right field wall......You are talking about our best hitter in the clutch since 2000.

He gets some big hits, but he also gets a lot of garbage time homers. His big 4-homer game last year in KC happened when we were winning by 17 runs.

LauraJ14
05-03-2004, 10:38 PM
Uribe has hit for a month and he's the greatest thing since sliced bread? There have been a few Sox players the last 2 seasons that were so good in April and May, where are D'Angelo Jimenez and Kenny Lofton and Ray Durham now? I would like to see a full season of Uribe before I annointe him the next great shortstop.

nodiggity59
05-03-2004, 10:38 PM
Ya I take back what I said about Willie's arm, throw'em in center. Crash makes enough errors. We gotts ta win this thing.

Brian26
05-03-2004, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
one more thing I forgot....

Brian.......

Have you seen any White Sox games since Valentin's arrival....I'll just pick one.....Sox 10 Cubs 9......Last Year.

I was at the game. One of the best games I've ever seen. Great moment in Sox history.

What have you done for me lately?

jordan23ventura
05-03-2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by idseer
also with respect ... uribe should be permanent shortstop now.
and willie should play second unless he reverts to the old willie.
jose needs to be kept on the bench for lefty ph duties.
his crappy contract should NOT dictate the best lineup the sox can put on the field!


I completely agree. We at least need to keep Willie and Uribe out there until around the All Star break to see if we even need Jose anymore. If not, he's trade bait.

Thigpen Rules
05-03-2004, 10:58 PM
I have faith in Ozzie, I read somehwhere, He is going to stick with valentin FOR NOW. Like D Wright found out, Jose will if he keeps booting em over at ss

man his charlotte #'s are horrrrible,. i hate Valentin, only one on the team I can't stand

DSpivack
05-03-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Unless it is a post talking about some part of my job as moderator, just read most of what I write in teal. It's simpler that way... :D:

Yeah I kinda figured that. I just have an irrational fond for the teal.

basilesox
05-03-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I was at the game. One of the best games I've ever seen. Great moment in Sox history.

What have you done for me lately?

Valentin is hitting .271 with 3 HR and 8 RBIs in just 11 games. We are acting like he is hitting below the Mendoza line. We haven't even see him play for a month batting exclusively from the left side. He is actually 6 for 20 from the left side so far. Now I realize that is a very small scale but right now it has to be Valentin and Uribe. For Willie Harris to hit for a decent average he is going to have to have over 100 bunt hits this year. Now I like the small ball attitude the team has had but having a leadoff man who has trouble getting the ball out of the infield is a little bit too much for me.

basilesox
05-03-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Thigpen Rules
I have faith in Ozzie, I read somehwhere, He is going to stick with valentin FOR NOW. Like D Wright found out, Jose will if he keeps booting em over at ss

man his charlotte #'s are horrrrible,. i hate Valentin, only one on the team I can't stand

Welcome to WSI..........And also welcome to being a sox fan....It is pretty obvious that you have just started following the Sox. Anybody who has watched the Sox over the last few years would not hate Valentin......He is the team leader and has been the only one with a consistently positive attitude over the last few years. Other players have consistently noted that he always is trying to motivate his teammates to play well and he has also put other players in their place when they are out of line.

But being a brand new Sox fan you probably didn't know that....Now maybe you will hate him a little less.

basilesox
05-03-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
Uribe has hit for a month and he's the greatest thing since sliced bread? There have been a few Sox players the last 2 seasons that were so good in April and May, where are D'Angelo Jimenez and Kenny Lofton and Ray Durham now? I would like to see a full season of Uribe before I annointe him the next great shortstop.

Amazing Post......I agree 100% (and i sure hope Uribe keeps it up)

Thigpen Rules
05-03-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
Welcome to WSI..........And also welcome to being a sox fan....It is pretty obvious that you have just started following the Sox. Anybody who has watched the Sox over the last few years would not hate Valentin......He is the team leader and has been the only one with a consistently positive attitude over the last few years. Other players have consistently noted that he always is trying to motivate his teammates to play well and he has also put other players in their place when they are out of line.

But being a brand new Sox fan you probably didn't know that....Now maybe you will hate him a little less.


sorry bud, been a chisox fan for years, He's a leader, what has he led us too the past few years ? He is the worst fielding SS in the league & Uribe saved 2 games for us this past week w his glove, I care about winning ball games, We gott Ozzie for the ra ra stuff now, If Valentin wants to leader be a coach. His bat is nice yes, but not at the cost of his defense

elrod
05-03-2004, 11:26 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Uribe is hittin great at SS, Harris is starting to hit well at 2B, and Jose is really struggling in Charlotte. Let's wait for Jose to get the touch again before he comes back. We have that option so we should use it.

voodoochile
05-03-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by elrod
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Uribe is hittin great at SS, Harris is starting to hit well at 2B, and Jose is really struggling in Charlotte. Let's wait for Jose to get the touch again before he comes back. We have that option so we should use it.

How long can Jose be left down there before they have to recall him or release him?

basilesox
05-03-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by elrod
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Uribe is hittin great at SS, Harris is starting to hit well at 2B, and Jose is really struggling in Charlotte. Let's wait for Jose to get the touch again before he comes back. We have that option so we should use it.

How can people constantly be using his rehab short stint in Charlotte as a reason he should lose his job. This is unbelievable......I mean if Garciaparra struggles at Pawtucket will Boston fan's be clammoring for Pokey Reese (who is about is good as Harris)....I mean I know Garciaparra is better than Valentin but COME ON PEOPLE. Get Serious here. There is a reason that people go to AAA when they return from injury its called RUST.

batmanZoSo
05-03-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by basilesox
How can people constantly be using his rehab short stint in Charlotte as a reason he should lose his job. This is unbelievable......I mean if Garciaparra struggles at Pawtucket will Boston fan's be clammoring for Pokey Reese (who is about is good as Harris)....I mean I know Garciaparra is better than Valentin but COME ON PEOPLE. Get Serious here. There is a reason that people go to AAA when they return from injury its called RUST.

Yeah, that's just stupid. The guy has hit over 100 home runs with the Sox alone. Does he have to prove he can hit prospects and washed up has beens in AAA?

He's also been playing in the majors for over a decade. Do you think he gets pumped to hit down there like he has something to prove to the scouts? That's funny.

basilesox
05-03-2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Yeah, that's just stupid. The guy has hit over 100 home runs with the Sox alone. Does he have to prove he can hit prospects and washed up has beens in AAA?

He's also been playing in the majors for over a decade. Do you think he gets pumped to hit down there like he has something to prove to the scouts? That's funny.

Valentin's a gamer......he is pumped to get back to the MLB..especially with Uribe tearing it up right now. But I can imagine it is hard to hit after a two weak layout. Well probably not.......hitting a baseball is probably like riding a bike.

TaylorStSox
05-03-2004, 11:55 PM
You have to stick with the hot players to win ball games. Right now, Uribe and Harris are getting the job done. I wish Harris would be more selective, but he's not that type of hitter, at this point. Keep the line up how it is until they fail.

The beauty of this is that Valentin is the type of player that's more than willing to fill a utility role until somebody cools off. The guy flat out wants to win.

There's nothing wrong with having your team leaders fill back up roles. Valentin and Alomar.

ChiSox7
05-03-2004, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
You have to stick with the hot players to win ball games. Right now, Uribe and Harris are getting the job done. I wish Harris would be more selective, but he's not that type of hitter, at this point. Keep the line up how it is until they fail.

The beauty of this is that Valentin is the type of player that's more than willing to fill a utility role until somebody cools off. The guy flat out wants to win.

There's nothing wrong with having your team leaders fill back up roles. Valentin and Alomar.

I'd even say that Willie's been more selective of late. He has a .284 average and a .341 OBP, and added another walk tonight. Your point is dead on, but I thought that I'd add that I think Willie is starting to see more pitches, walk a little bit more, and get his hits.

TaylorStSox
05-04-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
I'd even say that Willie's been more selective of late. He has a .284 average and a .341 OBP, and added another walk tonight. Your point is dead on, but I thought that I'd add that I think Willie is starting to see more pitches, walk a little bit more, and get his hits.

Agree. He still looks overmatched at times but he's getting it done. I'm having a great time watching him. Actually, he's this household's favorite player at the moment.

Plus, he's played a great 2nd base all year.

It seems like some people here really don't want him to succeed. These same people would rather have us fail so they have fuel to burn their obsessive flame. <cough>Lip</cough>

voodoochile
05-04-2004, 08:14 AM
I think pressure may be feeding into Jose's problems while rehabbing too.

I would bet he knows Uribe is on fire and Harris is playing well. I would also bet he feels under the gun with Ozzie as his manager and wants to prove he can play. I think that is part of why he has had a rash of errors to start the season - walking on pins and needles hoping he doesn't screw up and then doing it because he is over thinking the situation.

Now he is down in AAA rehabbing and things start to go poorly right as the team takes off while he is on the DL. I would bet he is pressing like crazy at the moment - afraid he is about to lose his job.

Just a thought...

SSN721
05-04-2004, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
Agree. He still looks overmatched at times but he's getting it done. I'm having a great time watching him. Actually, he's this household's favorite player at the moment.

Plus, he's played a great 2nd base all year.

It seems like some people here really don't want him to succeed. These same people would rather have us fail so they have fuel to burn their obsessive flame. <cough>Lip</cough>

Since we have been nominating posts in this thread for amazing posts and posts of the month I nominate this one. It really seems to me that there is an attitude of certain posters that almost take delight in the Sox losing or certain players playing poorly just to show that they were right before the season started. Or when said players do well they fina anything they can to tear them down or use irrational reasoning to say that they arent good players. Its been a month, so I think it is too early to make definite judgements on Uribe and Harris. But I think both are playing very well. I think that people that still say Harris doesnt belong in a major league uniform have not been watchign games or have let their hatred for him consume all reasoning. That is the only thing I can come up with. A .284 average and .341 OBP, what is it gonna take? I mean seriously people, will he have to hit .500 and have like a .850 OBP before he will be good enough. I dont know how much more you can ask. If he was digressing I would understand arguments against him. But to me it sure looks like he is becoming more slective, he has improved greatly at working the count. I think he plays great defense. I can only think of one or two bad plays he made all year. And enough with the bunt in the ninth, he made a mistake, but I think his play since then has more than made up for that. I say stick with whats been working, I dont think the 5 mil should determine the lineup over what will win games. I think Valentin has done a lot for this team. I would like to see him back in the lineup at sometime but I would stick with Uribe and Harris til they cool off, or I would move Harris to CF and then Jose at short and Uribe at 2nd. At least that is what I think.

jabrch
05-04-2004, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
translation: AGGGGGHHHHHH!

And I completely agree...

or we can get Klayton back and put him out there...


CF must be played by a centerfielder. Harris/Timo/Rowand and to a lesser extent Gload are our only real options there until Mr. Reed is brought up.

jabrch
05-04-2004, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

With respect this is not rocket science. Valentin plays short, Uribe plays second.

Willie Harris sits on the end of the bench and rots until he learns to hit or gets sent back down to Charlotte. The only time he ever appears in a major league game with the Sox is if they need a pinch runner or perhaps a defensive replacement in CF (I base that on his speed not necessarily because he's a good fielder...just that he can cover a lot of ground.)

Willie Harris.....he gone.

Lip

Come on Lip - are you ****ting me? Harris is hitting .285 with a .341 obp. He knows how to hit.

jabrch
05-04-2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How long can Jose be left down there before they have to recall him or release him?

Rehab assignments can be no longer than 30 days.

Petch
05-04-2004, 08:59 AM
Send Paulie to a team that could use a solid first baseman and can provide us with a solid starter in return. (If we need to throw Billy in to sweeten the deal, I would be fine with that). Then, Frank is your first baseman (he hits better when he fields), Willie at second, Uribe at short, and Valentin at DH where he can't make those errors and can concentrate on hitting the ball. This would also solve our pitching situation by adding another solid starter. That is what I would do.

SSN721
05-04-2004, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Petch
Send Paulie to a team that could use a solid first baseman and can provide us with a solid starter in return. (If we need to throw Billy in to sweeten the deal, I would be fine with that). Then, Frank is your first baseman (he hits better when he fields), Willie at second, Uribe at short, and Valentin at DH where he can't make those errors and can concentrate on hitting the ball. This would also solve our pitching situation by adding another solid starter. That is what I would do.

Even though he hits better when he is on the field, I still think Thomas is more of a liability at first. There have been quite a few very nice defensive plays at first this year that Paulie has made that I dont see Frank making. But I wish there was a way that we could get Valentin to DH withough really altering the team. Much rather see him there then see him taking Uribes spot, at least right now while he is so hot.

joecrede
05-04-2004, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
With respect...Uribe must stay at second base.

Lip

Completely agree. Valentin is an underrated defender. He has excellent range, his arm can be somewhat erratic though. Besides, his left-handed bat is critical to the lineup.

BigFrankFan
05-04-2004, 12:15 PM
Ideally, it would be Val at 2B, Uribe at SS, & Harris at CF.
The reason being is that Uribe has the strongest most accurate arm of the 3.

Reality speaking it will be Val at SS, Uribe at 2B, & Harris spelling Uribe/Rowand. The reason being is that Uribe is on a hot streak now that historically is not expected to last. He is playing way above his numbers & part of that might be his freshness to the AL. Let's not forget the streak hitter that Clayton was. This being the case, you don't want to disrupt your most consistent hitter of the 3 (Val).

Ideally I would like to trade Paully to a team for a real 5th starter who can at least make it through 5 ip consistently & then move Val to 1B.
Val's range is a LOT better than Koney's & that will make it tougher for
hitters to get infield hits on the 2B side (like they are now).

Lip Man 1
05-04-2004, 12:31 PM
Ummm excuse me, wasn't Willie Harris hitting about .208 just three weeks ago? Didn't Kenny Williams warn him he'd have to start producing?

Some of you folks are acting like Harris has a proven track record and his awful start was a fluke. Have you looked at his track record?

The fluke has been the last three weeks.

Give him a few more weeks and those same folks defending him will be screaming for Ozzie to wank his ass out of the lineup. this guy is an inconsistent, punch and judy hitter, who gets overpowered a lot in at bats.

Lip

Randar68
05-04-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

Give him a few more weeks and those same folks defending him will be screaming for Ozzie to wank his ass out of the lineup. this guy is an inconsistent, punch and judy hitter, who gets overpowered a lot in at bats.

Lip


Same old Lip. He doesn't have 10 years service time so there's no way he'll ever produce, LOL!

Unlike Rowand, Willie Harris actually has done something in the minors to think he'd be able to be a decent major leaguer.

idseer
05-04-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Ummm excuse me, wasn't Willie Harris hitting about .208 just three weeks ago? Didn't Kenny Williams warn him he'd have to start producing?

Some of you folks are acting like Harris has a proven track record and his awful start was a fluke. Have you looked at his track record?

The fluke has been the last three weeks.

Give him a few more weeks and those same folks defending him will be screaming for Ozzie to wank his ass out of the lineup. this guy is an inconsistent, punch and judy hitter, who gets overpowered a lot in at bats.

Lip

i only defend his recent production and as long as he KEEPS producing he should stay in the lineup. after all, he may be our future. if he returns to his earlier form he should return to the bench.

you don't return a young ballplayer to the bench while he is producing. not when he's your only real 2nd baseman.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by idseer
i only defend his recent production and as long as he KEEPS producing he should stay in the lineup. after all, he may be our future. if he returns to his earlier form he should return to the bench.

you don't return a young ballplayer to the bench while he is producing. not when he's your only real 2nd baseman.

But can't you read??? We should try to resurrect Nellie Fox from the grave because he is a proven commodity with experience...

It's like trying to use reason with the crazy old man preaching on an offramp of the Eisenhower...

idseer
05-04-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
But can't you read??? We should try to resurrect Nellie Fox from the grave because he is a proven commodity with experience...

It's like trying to use reason with the crazy old man preaching on an offramp of the Eisenhower...

it's not like that at all. i usually find myself in agreement with lip. i just don't on this point. lip is a reasonable man imo, and is anything but crazy.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by idseer
it's not like that at all. i usually find myself in agreement with lip. i just don't on this point. lip is a reasonable man imo, and is anything but crazy.

You're entitled to your opinion. I find reading his posts to be akin to being repeatedly jabbed in the eye with a stick while he keeps telling me over and over how painful it is...

idseer
05-04-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
You're entitled to your opinion. I find reading his posts to be akin to being repeatedly jabbed in the eye with a stick while he keeps telling me over and over how painful it is...

well, he may be more negative than positive, but i don't see how you can blame a guy for that with the sox's history he has lived thru (me too). and face it, all you positive guys would have no fun at all here if you didn't have the neg's to argue with.
it takes both the yin AND the yang.

bobj4400
05-04-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Give him a few more weeks and those same folks defending him will be screaming for Ozzie to wank his ass out of the lineup. this guy is an inconsistent, punch and judy hitter, who gets overpowered a lot in at bats.

Lip


Chubbuck, Idaho most be a pretty depressing place. I dont think I have ever seen a positive post from Lip. Granted, the last few weeks from Wee Willie Harris may be a mirage, but this is the first time Willie has been handed the job for this long of a continuous period. Maybe, just maybe, he is showing improvement that will last. Is this too hard to fathom??

Judging by Lip's posts, the Sox are 6-19 rather than 16-9. For the first time in years, we didnt start off the season in a terrible funk. Let's enjoy this people...

Randar68
05-04-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by idseer
well, he may be more negative than positive, but i don't see how you can blame a guy for that with the sox's history he has lived thru (me too). and face it, all you positive guys would have no fun at all here if you didn't have the neg's to argue with.
it takes both the yin AND the yang.

I'm not even a "positive" guy. I think I am fair and even-handed in my expectations and reality. I think both the Cub-like optimism and the Lip-like negativity is silly, and annoying.

Discussing the Sox with Lip is like discussing Rowand with SEALgep...

fquaye149
05-04-2004, 03:23 PM
no offense, but reading all your posts saying we should move a very good defensive ss who is on fire right now to second and remove a good young player who is starting to come into his own for an error prone (no matter how good his range is) high K ss who can't hit left handed pitching in a left handed heavy division because

"willie tried to lay down a bunt in the ninth and jose would have poked a single into right"

not to mention the complete removal of any speed from the lineup that would result


makes me glad that none of you have the ultimate say in any lineup related decisions about this team.

Randar68
05-04-2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Judging by Lip's posts, the Sox are 6-19 rather than 16-9. For the first time in years, we didnt start off the season in a terrible funk. Let's enjoy this people...

'joy' is not something possible to experience in Chubbuck, Idaho

UnderpantsGnome
05-05-2004, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

With respect this is not rocket science. Valentin plays short, Uribe plays second.

Willie Harris sits on the end of the bench and rots until he learns to hit or gets sent back down to Charlotte. The only time he ever appears in a major league game with the Sox is if they need a pinch runner or perhaps a defensive replacement in CF (I base that on his speed not necessarily because he's a good fielder...just that he can cover a lot of ground.)

Willie Harris.....he gone.

Lip

Are you talking about the same willie the rest of us are? The guy hitting .284 with the team lead in SB? And you want to sit him? I think willie has figured out how to be an effective leadoff hitter, and I think most people on the board will agree with me.

Rowand is our biggest liability right now...I say willie takes CF (please not Valentin again!), Jose at SS, Uribe at 2B.

Aaron Rowand...you can put him on the bench...YES!

Randar68
05-05-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by UnderpantsGnome
Are you talking about the same willie the rest of us are? The guy hitting .284 with the team lead in SB? And you want to sit him? I think willie has figured out how to be an effective leadoff hitter, and I think most people on the board will agree with me.

Rowand is our biggest liability right now...I say willie takes CF (please not Valentin again!), Jose at SS, Uribe at 2B.

Aaron Rowand...you can put him on the bench...YES!

Great name, great post!

BigHurt4HOF
05-05-2004, 12:59 PM
For your edification, Jose Valentin's offensive and defensive numbers with the White Sox. With the emphasis on offensive.

Year AVG HR RBI K
2000 .273 25 92 106
2001 .258 28 68 114
2002 .249 25 75 99
2003 .237 28 74 114

Total Errors
2000 36
2001 22
2002 19
2003 20

Valentin is a leader. I don't dispute that. But he is consistently mediocre. He has proven that. Also, his batting average is on the decline and he is 34 years old.

Maybe Uribe is just on a hot streak. Maybe Harris is in over his head. I don't know. I like the way both of them are playing right now. Both Uribe and Harris are unknown commoddities. Valentin is a known commodity. He will hit around .250with 25 home runs and make a lot of errors.

Lets give Uribe and Harris a shot. They are strong defensively and potentially great tablesetters for the mashers in middle of the lineup.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2004, 01:03 PM
Again...Willie Harris has been hitting reasonably well for three weeks ...give him time (just like last year remember?)

Lip