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batmanZoSo
04-29-2004, 10:13 PM
He looks pretty unhittable this year. And he's probably the most deceptively fast thrower I've seen. He only throws 91 or so, but it looks like 95. With that big slow curve as his out pitch and that "bulldog" attitude, he looks like he could be closer material in the future. He's aggressive and seems to be fearless. DW is soft.

I'm not saying throw him out there now, first you gotta let him start and show what he can do. But this hit me watching him tonight. Of all the relievers on our staff, I would peg him as the most likely to be able to close well. FWIW. Thoughts?

SEALgep
04-29-2004, 10:16 PM
I don't think that's a good idea, although that's just my opinion. Cotts is better suited for the role he currently is in, and besides, it better prepares him for the rotation, which will probably happen next year.

Nick@Nite
04-29-2004, 10:19 PM
... the Sox should continue the closer by committee scenario... for now.

batmanZoSo
04-29-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I don't think that's a good idea, although that's just my opinion. Cotts is better suited for the role he currently is in, and besides, it better prepares him for the rotation, which will probably happen next year.

What's not a good idea? Remember I didn't say to throw him into the fire now. Just a possibility down the road. And he better see the rotation before next year.

SEALgep
04-29-2004, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
What's not a good idea? Remember I didn't say to throw him into the fire now. Just a possibility down the road. And he better see the rotation before next year. I know, I don't think he would ever be better suited for the closer role. He's not overpowering in the sense of speed, but overpowering with deception. That makes him an effective pitcher for longer stretches than just the last inning. He would be better suited as a starter down the road, and is used well now in his current role. However, if you want him to be part of the rotation within the year, what's this closer talk?

batmanZoSo
04-29-2004, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I know, I don't think he would ever be better suited for the closer role. He's not overpowering in the sense of speed, but overpowering with deception. That makes him an effective pitcher for longer stretches than just the last inning. He would be better suited as a starter down the road, and is used well now in his current role. However, if you want him to be part of the rotation within the year, what's this closer talk?

It's just a topic of conversation.

And as for him starting, he has to be given a shot because he's been lights out all year. We're talking about a young kid not a 28 year old rookie. The closer talk is a future possibility if he fails as a starter. He comes in making guys miss and he appears to have balls.

oheeoh...magglio
04-29-2004, 10:36 PM
Cotts should=#5 starter.....



I Hope Ozzie comes to his senses and gives him a chance evetually.....

SEALgep
04-29-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
It's just a topic of conversation.

And as for him starting, he has to be given a shot because he's been lights out all year. We're talking about a young kid not a 28 year old rookie. The closer talk is a future possibility if he fails as a starter. He comes in making guys miss and he appears to have balls. And I'm conversing.

I would rather see him fail before we start talking making him a closer. He's a starter, not a future closer. We'll have other options at the closer spot, better options. Cotts would not be fully utilizing his potential there, much better as a starter. Until then, he's just fine as a reliever who can go a few innings.

kermittheefrog
04-29-2004, 10:45 PM
I'd like to see Cotts pitch two or three good months in the pen before I we try him the rotation again.

batmanZoSo
04-29-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
And I'm conversing.

I would rather see him fail before we start talking making him a closer. He's a starter, not a future closer. We'll have other options at the closer spot, better options. Cotts would not be fully utilizing his potential there, much better as a starter. Until then, he's just fine as a reliever who can go a few innings.

The whole point was to see if anyone thinks that he's got what it takes in case he fails as a starter.

Who are the better options? You can't mean better as in better pitcher. We got a few guys like Politte and Adkins who might be able to close, but they're not major hopes or anything.

MRKARNO
04-29-2004, 10:54 PM
That curveball isnt really all that great, but it's certainly a lot better than last year.

Why have him close when we have Marte and Politte both whom would be just as capable or even more capable. Cotts would be best served by taking Wrights rotation spot.

batmanZoSo
04-29-2004, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'd like to see Cotts pitch two or three good months in the pen before I we try him the rotation again.

So you want to wait til Wright's record is 0-10 before you make a decisive move on the 5th starter issue? I say Wright needs to have some success in the pen before he's given the privilege to start. He's just in a total career funk and to keep throwing him out there every 5 days is gonna do him no good at all. He's got no confidence in himself and worst of all no luck whatsoever. He just can't win, and hasn't been able to for a really long time. He needs a change of scenery (by going to the pen, not another team) and the sooner we give Cotts a shot, the sooner we see what he can do--whether it's to become a full time starter or send him back to the pen and see what role he'll eventually fill, i.e. closer like I brought up. I just think what we're doing now makes no sense.

batmanZoSo
04-29-2004, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
That curveball isnt really all that great, but it's certainly a lot better than last year.

Why have him close when we have Marte and Politte both whom would be just as capable or even more capable. Cotts would be best served by taking Wrights rotation spot.

Politte's proven that he can't handle the closing role in the past. He could change, yeah. But with Cotts we have no evidence that he CANT do it, and that's all I'm saying. And Damaso is just way too good of a setup man to be a closer, and even he's been shaky in that role. He's not quite the same pitcher when he closes. If you wanna maximize our pen you have to let Damaso pitch the 8th.

TaylorStSox
04-29-2004, 11:19 PM
Honestly, come on! Cotts is a starter. Just because guys have good showings, doesn't mean that we should nominate them for jobs that they have never done. Cotts should be starting. He will be starting in the near future.

nasox
04-29-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I know, I don't think he would ever be better suited for the closer role. He's not overpowering in the sense of speed, but overpowering with deception.

Wasnt Foulke a bit like that? thats part of the reason they traded him, right?

SEALgep
04-30-2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Politte's proven that he can't handle the closing role in the past. He could change, yeah. But with Cotts we have no evidence that he CANT do it, and that's all I'm saying. And Damaso is just way too good of a setup man to be a closer, and even he's been shaky in that role. He's not quite the same pitcher when he closes. If you wanna maximize our pen you have to let Damaso pitch the 8th. We may have no evidence to say he can't do it, but what evidence is there that he can. I'm sure he could, but just as you say Marte is too valuable as a setup man, Cotts is to valuable as a long reliever/situational lefty and future starter than to limit him as a closer. Like I said, we have other options, better options. Don't try to make this guy something he's not. Why even discuss this under the scenerio as a failed starter? He hasn't failed, so this topic is pointless. We're not going to develop him into a closer. The fact that you say it's possible in the future, well anything is possible, but if he fails as a starter or in his current role, then it will be more likely we don't use the guy at all. That doesn't appear to be the case. He's a starter in the future, and a reliever now, plain and simple.

SEALgep
04-30-2004, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by nasox
Wasnt Foulke a bit like that? thats part of the reason they traded him, right? Cotts has more upside as a starter than to make him into a closer. I wasn't trying to say that the fact he isn't overpowering from a speed perspective, but overpowering from a deceptive perspective would not allow him to be an effective closer. I'm saying that his skills are better suited as a starter in the future, and a reliever as of now.

batmanZoSo
04-30-2004, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
We may have no evidence to say he can't do it, but what evidence is there that he can. I'm sure he could, but just as you say Marte is too valuable as a setup man, Cotts is to valuable as a long reliever/situational lefty and future starter than to limit him as a closer. Like I said, we have other options, better options. Don't try to make this guy something he's not. Why even discuss this under the scenerio as a failed starter? He hasn't failed, so this topic is pointless. We're not going to develop him into a closer. The fact that you say it's possible in the future, well anything is possible, but if he fails as a starter or in his current role, then it will be more likely we don't use the guy at all. That doesn't appear to be the case. He's a starter in the future, and a reliever now, plain and simple.

You failed to name these better options again. Cotts' current role is one we can fill easily. And we can move him because we know he has potential to do bigger and better things in other roles. With Marte, he is what he is.

hose
04-30-2004, 06:30 AM
I would like to see Cotts continue in his present role as middle relief with a starting position possibly by June.

Either bring up one of the young lefties down on the farm to replace Cotts in the bull pen or give Wunsch a shot.

Rush20
04-30-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by hose
I would like to see Cotts continue in his present role as middle relief with a starting position possibly by June.

Either bring up one of the young lefties down on the farm to replace Cotts in the bull pen or give Wunsch a shot.

I agree. I think Wright gets a few more starts and if he can't put together consecutive strong outings, move Cotts into the starting rotation and move Wright into the pullpen. I also think Wunsch needs to come back, however he's in Kenny's doghouse and I expect a trade sometime soon. No blockbuster, however I could see a similar 2-pitcher for 2-pitcher "change of scenery" deal with another team. Wunsch and Wright for....???

SEALgep
04-30-2004, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
You failed to name these better options again. Cotts' current role is one we can fill easily. And we can move him because we know he has potential to do bigger and better things in other roles. With Marte, he is what he is. Marte is what he is, but he's a better option than Cotts right there. We have a lot solid arms in the minors who can close, not this year though. If you want a failed starter to turn closer, what about Wright. He can certainly adjust to the role in the offseason. If you're talking about this year, Koch is still a better option than Cotts. But even if he weren't, Adkins, Politte, Marte, Shingo, and Jackson would all be better options. Cotts is better in the role he's in. I mean you say Marte is too valuable as a setup man to close, but Cotts has that same value for shutting teams down before the game goes into the setups hands. And sometimes he's the setup guy if he stretches his innings. That'[s value. I'm not opposed letting Cotts continue into the 9th at times and finishing out a game, if the situation is right, but that's not the same as calling him our closer.

batmanZoSo
04-30-2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Marte is what he is, but he's a better option than Cotts right there. We have a lot solid arms in the minors who can close, not this year though. If you want a failed starter to turn closer, what about Wright. He can certainly adjust to the role in the offseason. If you're talking about this year, Koch is still a better option than Cotts. But even if he weren't, Adkins, Politte, Marte, Shingo, and Jackson would all be better options. Cotts is better in the role he's in. I mean you say Marte is too valuable as a setup man to close, but Cotts has that same value for shutting teams down before the game goes into the setups hands. And sometimes he's the setup guy if he stretches his innings. That'[s value. I'm not opposed letting Cotts continue into the 9th at times and finishing out a game, if the situation is right, but that's not the same as calling him our closer.

Those might be better (more conventional and probable) options, but none of them have shown to be better relievers than Cotts. So they're only "better" in that sense. I'm all for putting Wright in the bullpen, but why does his name pop up in closer talk? He hasn't had any success at all since 2002. At least Cotts is putting up zeroes on the board. I would like to see Wright become a closer, but it seems like he's being given chances that Cotts isn't...and not just by us, by the management.

White_Sock
04-30-2004, 11:31 AM
Cotts should=#5 starter.....

I totaly agree. Cotts has proved he can pitch for at least 3 solid innings consistantly. I think it's just a matter of him settling down. When his curveball is on, he is an outstanding pitcher.

BackInBlack
04-30-2004, 11:36 AM
Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere, but I came across this dandy quote in the Sun-Times:

Guillen said he someday sees Cotts returning to the starting rotation.

''I've said from the beginning, this kid's got a chance to be special,'' Guillen said. ''He's going to be one of the stars soon. Right now, he's going to help me in the bullpen. He has great stuff and commands [his pitches] real well.''

SEALgep
04-30-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Those might be better (more conventional and probable) options, but none of them have shown to be better relievers than Cotts. So they're only "better" in that sense. I'm all for putting Wright in the bullpen, but why does his name pop up in closer talk? He hasn't had any success at all since 2002. At least Cotts is putting up zeroes on the board. I would like to see Wright become a closer, but it seems like he's being given chances that Cotts isn't...and not just by us, by the management. Cotts hasn't pitched enough to say he can be a better closer than all the others. I think Cotts is a hell of a pitcher, and I'm glad we have him to put in the rotation at some point, but he's not a closer. Cotts is in his first season as a reliever, so to say no one has shown to be better than him is not only misleading, it's false. I'll say it again, it's not that I don't think Cotts could do it, it's just that it's a waste of his talent, when others are better options.