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View Full Version : Kudos again to Frank


Whitesox029
04-29-2004, 10:46 PM
Frank's decision to give maggs the #3 spot seems to be paying off for both of them. Frank's at .291 and maggs is hitting over .300 I believe with the 7 blasts. The weird thing is Frank's BB total...I would think he'd get better pitches with maggs on deck.

voodoochile
04-29-2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
Frank's decision to give maggs the #3 spot seems to be paying off for both of them. Frank's at .291 and maggs is hitting over .300 I believe with the 7 blasts. The weird thing is Frank's BB total...I would think he'd get better pitches with maggs on deck.

Why is that weird? It seems to support your exact comment. With Maggs NOT on deck when Frank hits, he sees less pitches to hit. Hence his walk total goes through the roof as teams pitch around him.

I agree. Maggs is getting the benefit of having Frank behind him, just as Frank got the benefit of having Maggs behind him last year. If Carlos ever gets his head out of his ass and stops swinging for the fences (What you mean I'm ALLOWED to hit the ball to right?) Frank will become even more dangerous.

Cubbiesuck13
04-29-2004, 10:51 PM
i think that lee will get hot soon. i sure hope he is not this years konehead

Whitesox029
04-29-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Why is that weird? It seems to support your exact comment. With Maggs NOT on deck when Frank hits, he sees less pitches to hit. Hence his walk total goes through the roof as teams pitch around him.

I agree. Maggs is getting the benefit of having Frank behind him, just as Frank got the benefit of having Maggs behind him last year. If Carlos ever gets his head out of his ass and stops swinging for the fences (What you mean I'm ALLOWED to hit the ball to right?) Frank will become even more dangerous.
See I'm not quite in my right mind tonight and I'm still not totally used to the switch. So even though this is the exact topic we're on, when I said that it was weird that Frank was getting walked, I was once again envisioning maggs hitting behind Frank as he has his whole career. Notice I said, "with maggs on deck." You are correct, and it does indeed make sense that Frank would get walked more.

jeremyb1
04-29-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
i think that lee will get hot soon. i sure hope he is not this years konehead

Konerko hit under .200 in the first half last year. Carlos' hitting is on par with what he did two of the last three seasons so I don't think it's a very good comparison.

WhiteSox = Life
04-29-2004, 11:13 PM
Thomas was on-base all four times he strode to the plate tonight, and he is now batting .304.

Frank's eye is as good as ever, and he is fighting off tough pitches and hitting the ball hard. The game against the Devil Rays where he smoked the ball three times, only getting one hit out of four times (though that one was quite a spark), has seemed to be the turning point for Frank.

I shudder to think where the Sox would be without Thomas, and even more so, how Frank will do if and/or when El Caballo heats it up again.

It's an awesome thing to imagine.

In summation, keep it goin', Hurt!

:hurt
"Y'all know it!"

batmanZoSo
04-29-2004, 11:18 PM
Carlos is not tanking hit, he's hitting .265. That's not a slump, it's just a ho-hum month. He hasn't been an automatic out like every Sox player is required to be for some stretch...yet. You can't complain about anyone's hitting except maybe Crede, it's just the overall home run swings and really stupid bunts. Really stupid.

SoxFan76
04-29-2004, 11:42 PM
Konerko and Carlos need to switch spots in the lineup until Carlos gets hot.

Deadguy
04-29-2004, 11:46 PM
Frank's OBP is up to .494. He probably won't keep up this walk rate for very long, but if he can maintain an average close to .300, we could see the return of the .450+ OBP Frank that this team really needs.

mac9001
04-29-2004, 11:48 PM
Just to point a few things out about CLEE:

.825 OPS. (.292 AVG, .829 OPS last 7 games)
OPS. Last season: .830

Also Carlos is on pace to hit:

32 HR's, 41 2B's and 81 BB's.

If that's a slump i can't wait till he gets hot...

Shoeless Joe
04-30-2004, 12:01 AM
As long as Frank keeps giving opposing pitcher's his "Stare of Death" he'll be fine. Having him at the fourth spot is best for the team. Magglio is clearly the best hitter on this team now and he has a future HOF covering for him.

As for switching hitters in the lineup...please don't. We had a manager who changed hitters in the lineup so much you'd think he was paid for each one he made. We've been winning at fairly good pace so far so let's keep everything the same until a change is needed.

Randar68
04-30-2004, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Thomas was on-base all four times he strode to the plate tonight, and he is now batting .304.

Frank's eye is as good as ever, and he is fighting off tough pitches and hitting the ball hard. The game against the Devil Rays where he smoked the ball three times, only getting one hit out of four times (though that one was quite a spark), has seemed to be the turning point for Frank.

I shudder to think where the Sox would be without Thomas, and even more so, how Frank will do if and/or when El Caballo heats it up again.

It's an awesome thing to imagine.

In summation, keep it goin', Hurt!

:hurt
"Y'all know it!"

If Franak decides he wants to start usinig the right half of the field again, he could easily return to MVP-type performance.

I still don't believe the lack of respect Frank get's in this town. I heard Harry Tini-dick on the radio again today pumping how much money they should pay Maggs, because one day he's going to dwarf Frank's best years...

uhhh, WHAT??? Frank has probably had the single best non-Bonds offensive season in history in 1994 and others close. .300 avg, 100 BB, 100 RBI, 30 HR, 100 R scored... Frank has 8 of those seasonos, and nobody in baseball history has had more than 6 (Ruth IIRC) and only 2 others have had 5 IIRC....

Unfreaking real, how people in the media are so petty with him because he get's tired of beinig scape-goated and abused by them any time he talks to them...


UGH.

Frank is a first-ballot HOF'er if the media had any sac to put their differences with him aside...

batmanZoSo
04-30-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Shoeless Joe
As long as Frank keeps giving opposing pitcher's his "Stare of Death" he'll be fine. Having him at the fourth spot is best for the team. Magglio is clearly the best hitter on this team now and he has a future HOF covering for him.

As for switching hitters in the lineup...please don't. We had a manager who changed hitters in the lineup so much you'd think he was paid for each one he made. We've been winning at fairly good pace so far so let's keep everything the same until a change is needed.

There's no way Magglio's the best hitter on this team. He won't be until Frank retires or until he learns how to take a walk. His on-base is like .340. That's horrible for a guy making his money. And he's not in a slump, he's got 7 homers. What's that tell you? He's been swinging at everything this year. He needs to be patient and go deep into counts without worrying about striking out. I'd rather he strike out 100 times than make weak contact on an unhittable pitch and ground into double plays all the time...and swing at pitches above the letters.

SoxFan76
04-30-2004, 12:18 AM
Frank is the best modern day hitter in Chicago history hands down. Since none of us saw the Shoeless one play, I dub Frank the best player in Chicago.

TaylorStSox
04-30-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
There's no way Magglio's the best hitter on this team. He won't be until Frank retires or until he learns how to take a walk. His on-base is like .340. That's horrible for a guy making his money. And he's not in a slump, he's got 7 homers. What's that tell you? He's been swinging at everything this year. He needs to be patient and go deep into counts without worrying about striking out. I'd rather he strike out 100 times than make weak contact on an unhittable pitch and ground into double plays all the time...and swing at pitches above the letters.


I agree and disagree. Maggs has never and never will be an OBP. guy. He's a contact guy. Take that for what it's worth. He's going to hit the ball hard alot. He's not going to work counts to get on base. I agree that Maggs is overpaid. However, don't "billy beane" him into being less valuable than he really is.


I don't want my RBI producers working counts. I want them driving in runs.

batmanZoSo
04-30-2004, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I agree and disagree. Maggs has never and never will be an OBP. guy. He's a contact guy. Take that for what it's worth. He's going to hit the ball hard alot. He's not going to work counts to get on base. I agree that Maggs is overpaid. However, don't "billy beane" him into being less valuable than he really is.


I don't want my RBI producers working counts. I want them driving in runs.

I didn't say he was overpaid so you can't agree with me there.

The Billy Beane comment was funny, but I don't buy that. The ability to work a count is invaluable for anyone in the lineup. Enough can't be said for its value.

nasox
04-30-2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
Frank is the best modern day hitter in Chicago history hands down. Since none of us saw the Shoeless one play, I dub Frank the best player in Chicago.

I actually know a guy who saw Shoeless Joe play many games (he was at the 1919 series!), but unfortunately, he is a 101 and has Alzheimer's. He is very close to death, :(:

TaylorStSox
04-30-2004, 12:55 AM
"horrible for a guy making his money" implies that you think he's overpaid based on performance. If you don't want people to infer that, rethink your wording.

bartmanisgod
04-30-2004, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
Konerko and Carlos need to switch spots in the lineup until Carlos gets hot.

That's a great call...maybe even put carlos in the 2 hole and have Uribe lead off....Uribe Carlos Maggs Frank and Paulie....
Willie isnt really getting the job done at lead off...plus think of the numbers these five could put up!

JohnBasedowYoda
04-30-2004, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by nasox
I actually know a guy who saw Shoeless Joe play many games (he was at the 1919 series!), but unfortunately, he is a 101 and has Alzheimer's. He is very close to death, :(:

Wow, it's amazing...maybe some day people will be coming to us and ask us about being original hardcore sox fans at the onset of a historic 2004 season.

Hopefully your friend isn't in much pain, prayers too him

voodoochile
04-30-2004, 08:37 AM
The Maggs is a contact hitter is a great argument for switching them actually. Frank's walks will give Maggs someone to drive in and Maggs won't be as patient as Frank is and thus less likely to need protection, IMO.

BeerHandle
04-30-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Konerko hit under .200 in the first half last year. Carlos' hitting is on par with what he did two of the last three seasons so I don't think it's a very good comparison.

We need Carlos to get hot.

RKMeibalane
04-30-2004, 09:02 AM
First of all, I just wanted to say that I am extremely pleased with the start that Frank has had to the 2004 season. He seems to be hitting the ball harder than he has in several years, and it also looks as though he has regained full command of the strike zone, after striking out 100+ times the past two seasons.

That said, there are still a number of things that concern me about the Sox lineup. I agree that it's unfail to say that Carlos Lee is slumping. He's not. However, Carlos must learn to be more patient at the plate. This business of swinging at the first pitch every time needs to end. Nobody is going to pitch to Frank if they know they can get Carlos to swing at something out of the strike zone.

The other issue is an even more pressing concern: the top of the order. Juan Uribe has surprised everyone with his great start. He has been everything that Tony G was and more. However, Willie Harris still leaves much to be desired in the lead-off spot. Harris has had some good games, but he has also looked completely overmatched at times, as well. I distincly remember an at-bat where he was so late on a fastball that the pitch was in the catcher's mitt by the time he swung the bat. That's not good, not good at all.

KW's hands are tied for the moment, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for him to eventually make a trade, as he did last season. A similar move may in the works for this season, because the Sox are depending on five guys (Frank, Maggs, Konerko, Lee, Uribe) to do a job that requires nine men. That doesn't make for productive offense over the course of a six-month season.

Cubbiesuck13
04-30-2004, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The Maggs is a contact hitter is a great argument for switching them actually. Frank's walks will give Maggs someone to drive in and Maggs won't be as patient as Frank is and thus less likely to need protection, IMO.

You would figure that Mags, not being as selective would be better in the 3 spot because of less junk pitches. I don't see how you made your observation. Clearly it would be best for a hitter who is not going to work a count to get better pitches when Frank is behind them.

I did not mean to infrer that CLee was in a slump, but he is far from hot, the hot that I believe he is capable of. The kind of hot that I thought we was capable of when he was playing 3rd in B-ham. And when he gets that hot, Frank's walking will reap rewards.

Dadawg_77
04-30-2004, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
If Franak decides he wants to start usinig the right half of the field again, he could easily return to MVP-type performance.

I still don't believe the lack of respect Frank get's in this town. I heard Harry Tini-dick on the radio again today pumping how much money they should pay Maggs, because one day he's going to dwarf Frank's best years...

uhhh, WHAT??? Frank has probably had the single best non-Bonds offensive season in history in 1994 and others close. .300 avg, 100 BB, 100 RBI, 30 HR, 100 R scored... Frank has 8 of those seasonos, and nobody in baseball history has had more than 6 (Ruth IIRC) and only 2 others have had 5 IIRC....

Unfreaking real, how people in the media are so petty with him because he get's tired of beinig scape-goated and abused by them any time he talks to them...


UGH.

Frank is a first-ballot HOF'er if the media had any sac to put their differences with him aside...

That and the fact it show a complete lack of understanding of how baseball players mature. With one notable exception, no player's production will increase that much at such an late stage.

Dadawg_77
04-30-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
You would figure that Mags, not being as selective would be better in the 3 spot because of less junk pitches. I don't see how you made your observation. Clearly it would be best for a hitter who is not going to work a count to get better pitches when Frank is behind them.

I did not mean to infrer that CLee was in a slump, but he is far from hot, the hot that I believe he is capable of. The kind of hot that I thought we was capable of when he was playing 3rd in B-ham. And when he gets that hot, Frank's walking will reap rewards.

I think it really doesn't matter. Whether if is Frank, Konerko, or Lee behind Mags, there will be someone who can hit behind Mags. Pitchers will not just give Mags fastballs because they fear Mags, so unless Harris and who ever is number 2 is on, Mags won't see better pitches.

bobj4400
04-30-2004, 09:56 AM
I think it is time for a positive Moronotti article about the season Frank is having...

:moron

"Say something good about Frank, a Chicago White Sox?? Over my dead body."

Randar68
04-30-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I agree and disagree. Maggs has never and never will be an OBP. guy. He's a contact guy. Take that for what it's worth. He's going to hit the ball hard alot. He's not going to work counts to get on base. I agree that Maggs is overpaid. However, don't "billy beane" him into being less valuable than he really is.


I don't want my RBI producers working counts. I want them driving in runs.

I don't think that was his intent, but people who have compared Frank to Maggs and Konerko the past couple of years really have no clue what in the hell they're talking about.

Even today, if Frank hits anywhere NEAR .300, his numbers will dwarf Maggs'. Maggs has never hit 40 HR one time, and is already ~30 years old. Maggs has never come close to having a .400 OBP.

This is the very reason why, in the offseason, I said I'd rather have a healthy Nick Johnson than Maggs. Nothing against Maggs, but he's not one of the 5 or 10 best all-around offensive players in the game.

BigFrankFan
04-30-2004, 01:20 PM
Frank needs to come up bigger than ever in the month of May.
The SOX have a DEATHMATCH schedule in May:
3 v MIN, 5 @ MIN
3 v ANA, 3 v TEX

That's 14 games against the best in the AL right now.
You can't win a div in May but I think with a 5 game series at MIN you can certainly lose one. That 5 game series might be the most important one of the season. It will set the tone the rest of the way.

Attendance wise, I believe in the SOX can win those 2 series it will convince the casual SOX fan that this team is for real.

Deadguy
04-30-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by BigFrankFan
Frank needs to come up bigger than ever in the month of May.
The SOX have a DEATHMATCH schedule in May:
3 v MIN, 5 @ MIN
3 v ANA, 3 v TEX


He'll be fine in the home games. What worries me is his production on the road. At home he's doing great, since he can stay loose in between PAs by hitting in a batting cage. On the road, he has nothing to do but overanalyze his approach at the plate, and subsequently struggle.

If only Konerko could go to Ozzie, and offer to DH in road games.

RKMeibalane
04-30-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
He'll be fine in the home games. What worries me is his production on the road. At home he's doing great, since he can stay loose in between PAs by hitting in a batting cage. On the road, he has nothing to do but overanalyze his approach at the plate, and subsequently struggle.

If only Konerko could go to Ozzie, and offer to DH in road games.

I think Frank's hamstring injury may have set him back a bit in terms of playing first base. I know Ozzie had wanted to get him out there more often this season, especially since Frank himself believes that he's more effective when he plays there.

Once Frank's hammy heals completely, I think we'll see him out there. I highly doubt that Ozzie will be as stupid about this situation as the previous Sox manager.

:jerry

"I can't imagine any reason short of an emergency for playing Frank at first base."

Bobby Thigpen
04-30-2004, 02:03 PM
I said I'd rather have a healthy Nick Johnson than Maggs.

That's exactly what the Sox need, a fourth first baseman.