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balboner
04-27-2004, 11:21 PM
- The outfield play in the Sox game tonight was as bad as I can remember. All the players seemed to have cement shoes on.

- Willie Harris has got to do a better job at working the pitcher. Way too many first pitch 15 hoppers to 2b.

- A. Rowand needs to lay off the inside fastball. He's swinging at pitches that would hit him.

- How fast was Koch's pitches to the last few batters? They seemed to be in upper 90s. Lets hope it's a start.

- Our relievers have to do a better job of throwing strikes. Politte and Marte are trying to K too many batters, and aren't getting the job done.

- Why do the Twins have to come back every single game? They're incredible late in the game

MRKARNO
04-27-2004, 11:24 PM
Rowand's center fielding has been unacceptably bad recently. Randar is most certainly correct in his assessment that Rowand is a terrible fielder: I just started to have an eye on it and he definately sucks. The Jeremy Reed countdown continues....(2 for 4 tonight)

cheeses_h_rice
04-27-2004, 11:35 PM
Just got back from the game...sigh. One of the most "loosely" pitched games I've been to in recent years.

My thoughts:

-How cool was it to see 3 homers in the first by the Sox Big Boys?

-Garland showed a bit of his old Marshmallow Boy self in not shutting down the Jndjans when he had the chance. Granted, nearly all of the Jndjans' hits were little squibs or short pops that happened to land where the fielders weren't.

-Willie Harris really needs to field well, if he's going to hit like he's been doing (although I was delighted with his WTP tonight).

-Neither Politte, Marte, Koch or Adkins had a good day. At all. Koch lucked out with the sacks packed, and the Jndjans guys up there HACKING. I thought for sure the game was over in the 9th.

-Nice to see Paul K. still running the bases with his head up his ass, trying to advance to third with the ball hit to his right.

-Aaron Rowand continues to be a butcher in CF. How long do the Sox give him?

-Adkins...eh. He had a bad outing. I'm not inclined to write him off yet.

-The ****ing Twins winning in the 9th was a double dagger to the heart, when that popped up on the scoreboard. I really thought after the first inning the Sox would be in 1st place after tonight.

Lip Man 1
04-27-2004, 11:52 PM
It is ironic that just when the newspapers starting writing stories about how the Sox bullpen was doing the job they imploded for the 3rd time this young season tonight. Twice it cost the Sox games.

As far as the Twins, I don't know what to tell you, they just know how to win and they seem to be able to beat the bad teams something the Sox have real trouble with. Cleveland, I think, beat them nine times last year and they had a bad team. They did the same thing to the Sox tonight as well.

Lip

CHISOXFAN13
04-28-2004, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Just got back from the game...sigh. One of the most "loosely" pitched games I've been to in recent years.

My thoughts:

-How cool was it to see 3 homers in the first by the Sox Big Boys?

-Garland showed a bit of his old Marshmallow Boy self in not shutting down the Jndjans when he had the chance. Granted, nearly all of the Jndjans' hits were little squibs or short pops that happened to land where the fielders weren't.

-Willie Harris really needs to field well, if he's going to hit like he's been doing (although I was delighted with his WTP tonight).

-Neither Politte, Marte, Koch or Adkins had a good day. At all. Koch lucked out with the sacks packed, and the Jndjans guys up there HACKING. I thought for sure the game was over in the 9th.

-Nice to see Paul K. still running the bases with his head up his ass, trying to advance to third with the ball hit to his right.

-Aaron Rowand continues to be a butcher in CF. How long do the Sox give him?

-Adkins...eh. He had a bad outing. I'm not inclined to write him off yet.

-The ****ing Twins winning in the 9th was a double dagger to the heart, when that popped up on the scoreboard. I really thought after the first inning the Sox would be in 1st place after tonight.

I pretty much agree with everything you said minus the Koch comment. If Harris makes that play, he likely escapes the inning without much trouble. It was nice to see him work out of that jam. I thought for sure we'd win the game in the bottom of the frame the way things have been going.

batmanZoSo
04-28-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Just got back from the game...sigh. One of the most "loosely" pitched games I've been to in recent years.

My thoughts:

-How cool was it to see 3 homers in the first by the Sox Big Boys?

-Garland showed a bit of his old Marshmallow Boy self in not shutting down the Jndjans when he had the chance. Granted, nearly all of the Jndjans' hits were little squibs or short pops that happened to land where the fielders weren't.

-Willie Harris really needs to field well, if he's going to hit like he's been doing (although I was delighted with his WTP tonight).

-Neither Politte, Marte, Koch or Adkins had a good day. At all. Koch lucked out with the sacks packed, and the Jndjans guys up there HACKING. I thought for sure the game was over in the 9th.

-Nice to see Paul K. still running the bases with his head up his ass, trying to advance to third with the ball hit to his right.

-Aaron Rowand continues to be a butcher in CF. How long do the Sox give him?

-Adkins...eh. He had a bad outing. I'm not inclined to write him off yet.

-The ****ing Twins winning in the 9th was a double dagger to the heart, when that popped up on the scoreboard. I really thought after the first inning the Sox would be in 1st place after tonight.

I was there, too.

-I got a new idea instead of going to sox games...I'll just sit at this desk and feed twenties into a paper shredder. :smile:

-That was the coldest I've been in a long time.

-Garland is a chump lately. He's got a long way to go and he may never get there.

-Koch is completely terrible. The ninth tonight was the best you'll ever get from that loser. I can't wait til he's gone.

-Adkins and Politte. You guys gotta do better than that. Politte especially is falling back to earth. He gave up two runs last outing and two runs this outing. Of course he wasn't charged with the inherited runners on Sunday, but what the hell let's give it to him.

-Another poor hitting display. Don't anybody say "7 runs." All these guys can do is hit home runs. When I got there it was 4-0, I never dreamed they'd end up losing. After the first, it was home run derby...or at least they tried.

-Terrible at bats in the ninth inning when they needed to manufacture one run to win it. Lee--two pitches, popup. Konerko--three pitches, pop up. Crede--three of the hardest swings I've ever sween, no contact, grab some bench. All three were trying to end it with one swing. (p.s. they didn't)

-That Betancourt balks every time he sets up. That really pissed me off that we couldn't hit him. He has no business shutting down this lineup. It's utterly pathetic the way these guys approach at-bats sometimes.

-The fans were pretty crappy today. No one was into it. The only thing they were in to was getting up to get food every 15 seconds and blocking my view. There were two bozos behind me dropping F-bombs every two seconds, and for really stupid reasons like a bases empty single or a pop up and this is while we were leading. Who cares that there's a five year old kid in the next row. There were several fights or white trash style commotions that required force from security. People also left after each half inning starting with the 8th. I think it's a misconception that Sox fans are "into the game." We had a chance to win it in dramatic fashion and they're all leaving. Ah, well, in hindsight I envy those who left early.

kittle42
04-28-2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I was there, too.

-I got a new idea instead of going to sox games...I'll just sit at this desk and feed twenties into a paper shredder. :smile:

- All these guys can do is hit home runs.

-Terrible at bats in the ninth inning when they needed to manufacture one run to win it. Lee--two pitches, popup. Konerko--three pitches, pop up. Crede--three of the hardest swings I've ever sween, no contact, grab some bench. All three were trying to end it with one swing. (p.s. they didn't)

-It's utterly pathetic the way these guys approach at-bats sometimes.

-The fans were pretty crappy today. No one was into it.

I was there, too. Head of nail, meet hammer.

batmanZoSo
04-28-2004, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
I was there, too. Head of nail, meet hammer.

Some more observations..

-A guy I know just told me he was there in RF with a few chicks and they flashed Magglio.

-There was a point in the sixth I believe when Harris was up with Olivo on first. Why in the name of christ wasn't he bunting? He made an out and luckily there was a wild pitch. But I don't think it amounted to any runs. I could be wrong, though, I can't remember everything.

-Half price Pepsi day...attendance: 14,000.

jeremyb1
04-28-2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
-Garland showed a bit of his old Marshmallow Boy self in not shutting down the Jndjans when he had the chance. Granted, nearly all of the Jndjans' hits were little squibs or short pops that happened to land where the fielders weren't.

...but if he wasn't a marshmallow he would've acquired the ability to fly and catch the bloop hits himself.

mdep524
04-28-2004, 01:06 AM
I agree with a lot of cheeses' and batman's observations.

I was there too, freezing, and noticed:

-The hitting: The Sox did a decent job hitting- clutch hits for Harris and Crede. But the ninth inning at bats were a frickin' joke. Could someone PLEASE tell Carlos that the Sox don't HAVE to win on a homerun every night??? The pop ups are really driving me mad.

-The fielding: Besides Olivo's awesome block of the plate, the defense was not so good tonight. I used to think some people were too hard on Rowand, but it seems like he has the range of Manny Ramirez out there in center, and watching him tonight I noticed he doesn't recognize the ball off the bat well at all, causing him to get terrible jumps. It's Reed time.

-The fielding II: Harris has terrible hands at second base. He has good range, but what good is it if you can't catch anything? And how many times do we have to see taylor made double play ground balls muffed because our infielder tried to throw it before he caught it?

-The fans: A lot of fights, even more than usual. Especially in the bleachers where it felt like security was being called down every inning. And then there was that big one in left field.

indysoxfan
04-28-2004, 01:08 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by batmanZoSo
[B]I was there, too.





-Garland is a chump lately.



love that word. however, garland is a BUM. folks who pay to see him pitch are CHUMPS. :D:

owensmouth
04-28-2004, 01:10 AM
With Garland or Buehrle on the mound, no lead is safe.

They are giving away four, five and six run leads. Trade both of them and start from scratch.

kermittheefrog
04-28-2004, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo

-Another poor hitting display. Don't anybody say "7 runs." All these guys can do is hit home runs. When I got there it was 4-0, I never dreamed they'd end up losing. After the first, it was home run derby...or at least they tried.


Could you explain what you're looking for on offense? Don't you want the team to hit home runs? I mean, if we hit a home run every at bat, we'd never lose. Although I suppose if they only hit home runs on offense and never made outs the first inning would never end and maybe the game would eventually be stopped around 3 am, the MLB curfew. Is that whats wrong with home runs?

akingamongstmen
04-28-2004, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by owensmouth
With Garland or Buehrle on the mound, no lead is safe.

They are giving away four, five and six run leads. Trade both of them and start from scratch.

Whoa there! You're really jumping the gun on this one. Garland and Buehrle are talented young pitchers. Sure, they've struggled a bit lately, but its a long season. Give them time.

Baby Fisk
04-28-2004, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
-The fans: A lot of fights, even more than usual. Especially in the bleachers where it felt like security was being called down every inning. And then there was that big one in left field.
What's with all these fights in the stands? Is this a routine occurrence? What the hell are people getting into scraps over? As a terrified, sheltered Canadian who has never observed so much as a raised voice in Skydome (in anger, or in cheering for the home team for that matter...), I find this disturbing.

Any hobby sociologists care to explain this phenomenon?

cheeses_h_rice
04-28-2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
What's with all these fights in the stands? Is this a routine occurrence? What the hell are people getting into scraps over? As a terrified, sheltered Canadian who has never observed so much as a raised voice in Skydome (in anger, or in cheering for the home team for that matter...), I find this disturbing.

Any hobby sociologists care to explain this phenomenon?

There's a new breed of drillrod Sox fan invading the park lately, I've noticed.

Telltale signs include:
-herding in packs
-drinking way too much beer
-being an attention whore throughout the game, yelling obscenities and getting egged on/laughed at by people around them

Last night, there not only were several disturbances (mostly in the outfield area), but some ***hole attention whore in the Bullpen Bar made a big deal of throwing back a home run ball (getting cheered in the process, of course). If I were visiting another city and saw that kind of stuff on a night when only 14K were in attendance, my opinion of the fans of that city would be *very* low.

Most of us WSI folks pride ourselves on being knowledgeable, passionate fans of our team. I think we're being outnumbered by drunken goons who just wanna yell "Cubs suck" and **** **** up a la Fred Durst.

Depressing.

batmanZoSo
04-28-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
There's a new breed of drillrod Sox fan invading the park lately, I've noticed.

Telltale signs include:
-herding in packs
-drinking way too much beer
-being an attention whore throughout the game, yelling obscenities and getting egged on/laughed at by people around them

Last night, there not only were several disturbances (mostly in the outfield area), but some ***hole attention whore in the Bullpen Bar made a big deal of throwing back a home run ball (getting cheered in the process, of course). If I were visiting another city and saw that kind of stuff on a night when only 14K were in attendance, my opinion of the fans of that city would be *very* low.

Most of us WSI folks pride ourselves on being knowledgeable, passionate fans of our team. I think we're being outnumbered by drunken goons who just wanna yell "Cubs suck" and **** **** up a la Fred Durst.

Depressing.

It would be okay if that group of jackasses were the fill-ins that would help fill the park up. But with only 14,000 last night, it was like, hey...these are our fans. I've never been to a half price night before. Maybe that's what it was. The difference is it was so cold and a crappy team was in town, so only the goofs showed up for the cheap ticket. When I went to the game Saturday the crowd wasn't like that. And judging on TV in the previous week, the crowds were a lot better.

batmanZoSo
04-28-2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Could you explain what you're looking for on offense? Don't you want the team to hit home runs? I mean, if we hit a home run every at bat, we'd never lose. Although I suppose if they only hit home runs on offense and never made outs the first inning would never end and maybe the game would eventually be stopped around 3 am, the MLB curfew. Is that whats wrong with home runs?

Gimme a break. Do I want the team to hit home runs? Of course. Do I want them to try to hit home runs when they need a base hit and a few fly balls to win a game in the ninth? No.

I don't know if this team is capable of winning without hitting home runs. So maybe I should stop worrying about it and hope they just go ahead and hit 250 as a team. But that's a matter that really needs to be fixed next year. We have a few contracts ending where we can let them go and change up this lineup to be more balanced. If we want to get a championship during the Frank era, this is our last chance. Otherwise, we just have to hope we get lucky.

Lately, big home run hitting teams haven't been winning championships. If you look at the Yankees of the late 90s, a few times they won it all without a 30 home run hitter. One thing they did have was clutch hitting, speed and unselfish hitting. Ever sice they lost O'Neill, Martinez, Brosius etc, and went into the FA sweepstakes they haven't won anything. They keep getting beat by teams no one thought had a chance.

Jerko
04-28-2004, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
It would be okay if that group of jackasses were the fill-ins that would help fill the park up. But with only 14,000 last night, it was like, hey...these are our fans. I've never been to a half price night before. Maybe that's what it was. The difference is it was so cold and a crappy team was in town, so only the goofs showed up for the cheap ticket. When I went to the game Saturday the crowd wasn't like that. And judging on TV in the previous week, the crowds were a lot better.

I avoid half price nights at all costs. Worse, are empty half price nights. Beer lines are shorter, which means the drunks get drunk faster, there's hardly any security around because half of the concession stands are closed, so even if there are guards they are all in one spot since they don't watch the empty areas of the park. That makes people less apt to 'worry' about starting a fight because they think they could get away with it and don't care, etc. Plus it was miserable out and the the sox were losing, so the real fans that were actually suffering through watching that game were probably more annoyed than they would usually get by the morons. It just seems that some people think half price night means fight night.

cheeses_h_rice
04-28-2004, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
I avoid half price nights at all costs. Worse, are empty half price nights. Beer lines are shorter, which means the drunks get drunk faster, there's hardly any security around because half of the concession stands are closed, so even if there are guards they are all in one spot since they don't watch the empty areas of the park. That makes people less apt to 'worry' about starting a fight because they think they could get away with it and don't care, etc. Plus it was miserable out and the the sox were losing, so the real fans that were actually suffering through watching that game were probably more annoyed than they would usually get by the morons. It just seems that some people think half price night means fight night.

I walked around the park during the 4th inning, and it was pretty rowdy all over last night, especially in the bleachers.

starboy0
04-28-2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
...I don't know if this team is capable of winning without hitting home runs....

I think they are. They're manufacturing runs at a greater rate than they were last year. More small ball, stolen bases, bunting, etc. I hope that continues.

But left to their own devices they do seem to revert to just swinging for the fences. Especially Carlos!

mdep524
04-28-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
What's with all these fights in the stands? Is this a routine occurrence? What the hell are people getting into scraps over? As a terrified, sheltered Canadian who has never observed so much as a raised voice in Skydome (in anger, or in cheering for the home team for that matter...), I find this disturbing.

Any hobby sociologists care to explain this phenomenon?

Maybe it was a combination of the half price night and cold April weather, but I have never been as distrated by and irritated with the fans as I was last night. It was actually hard to watch the game. But I'm not going to make too much of it, things aren't usually that bad- I'll chalk it up as an aberration and expect things will be normal next time.

kermittheefrog
04-28-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo

Lately, big home run hitting teams haven't been winning championships. If you look at the Yankees of the late 90s, a few times they won it all without a 30 home run hitter. One thing they did have was clutch hitting, speed and unselfish hitting. Ever sice they lost O'Neill, Martinez, Brosius etc, and went into the FA sweepstakes they haven't won anything. They keep getting beat by teams no one thought had a chance.

So your definition of "not winning anything" is going to the playoffs 3 consecutive years as a division winner, making 2 World Series and losing in the playoffs to the eventual Series winner? And you think the difference between the Yankees winning the extra playoff series or two it would have taken to go all the way is that they hit too many home runs now? Thats what it sounds like from your post but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Come on, it's foolish to say there is anything bad about hitting a lot of home runs. However the Sox offense could be better and that would be if they actually got runners on the bases in front of the home run hitts.