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infohawk
04-26-2004, 09:15 PM
I came across this table illustrating the estimated value of each major league baseball team. The information is provided by Forbes Magazine. Just thought everyone might find it interesting.

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2004/0426/066tab.html

batmanZoSo
04-26-2004, 09:19 PM
18 Chicago White Sox

Value (millions): 248

Operating income: 12.8

Lying to the public about breaking even...priceless.

Johnny Mostil
04-26-2004, 09:21 PM
Thanks for posting this. I was surprised to see the Angels, who draw better in a larger market and won the Series just two years ago, rank behind the Sox.

MRKARNO
04-26-2004, 09:23 PM
Think about how nice it would have been if the ownership decided to spend 5-7 of those 13 on a Sidney Ponson or a Ted Lily, Miguel Bautista etc.

Johnny Mostil
04-26-2004, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo

Operating income: 12.8


Do my eyes deceive me, or was that the second highest operating income in the majors?

batmanZoSo
04-26-2004, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Johnny Mostil
Do my eyes deceive me, or was that the second highest operating income in the majors?

It could be well up there. I remember a few years ago some magazine listed us as the 5th most profitable team.

voodoochile
04-26-2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Johnny Mostil
Thanks for posting this. I was surprised to see the Angels, who draw better in a larger market and won the Series just two years ago, rank behind the Sox.

Give 'em a couple of years. I would bet they were much lower on this list a few years ago and the Sox are stagnating.

BearSox
04-26-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Think about how nice it would have been if the ownership decided to spend 5-7 of those 13 on a Sidney Ponson or a Ted Lily, Miguel Bautista etc.

Speaking of Lily, he's shutting out the Twins 4-0 in the 6th right now!

joecrede
04-26-2004, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Give 'em a couple of years. I would bet they were much lower on this list a few years ago and the Sox are stagnating.

I don't know that they have stagnated. Since 2000 according to Forbes they've gone from being valued at 166M to 248M an increase of 49%. A quick glance would puts that percentage increase in the top 10-12 teams over that period.

Lip Man 1
04-26-2004, 09:52 PM
Give this thread about 20 minutes. I'm sure by then the defenders of the organization will be on here screaming how Forbes has it all wrong, all lies, distortions and innuendoes.

Lip

joecrede
04-26-2004, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Give this thread about 20 minutes. I'm sure by then the defenders of the organization will be on here screaming how Forbes has it all wrong, all lies, distortions and innuendoes.

Lip

I think Forbes got it about right.

batmanZoSo
04-26-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Give this thread about 20 minutes. I'm sure by then the defenders of the organization will be on here screaming how Forbes has it all wrong, all lies, distortions and innuendoes.

Lip

Tick, tock....

mac9001
04-26-2004, 10:33 PM
I'm willing to bet the All-Star game had a big impact in the operating income (aka profit).

voodoochile
04-26-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I don't know that they have stagnated. Since 2000 according to Forbes they've gone from being valued at 166M to 248M an increase of 49%. A quick glance would puts that percentage increase in the top 10-12 teams over that period.

Okay, might have to do with selling the naming rights and getting even more money for the stadium from the ISA. Also getting a renewel of that sweetheart lease and the continued gentrification all probably play into it.

In hindsight, not that surprising. Of course JR isn't seeing a dime of that increased value, so it just doesn't count...

chisox06
04-26-2004, 10:49 PM
JR's been tellin us all along that he's just barely making a profit. What a load of crap. He's just greedy all there is to it.

dickallen15
04-26-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Give this thread about 20 minutes. I'm sure by then the defenders of the organization will be on here screaming how Forbes has it all wrong, all lies, distortions and innuendoes.

Lip

I will defend the organization and say that this may be accurate, but who knows. If it is, payroll is up about $12 million from last season. There is no All Star Game, and I'm sure season ticket numbers are down. If they made $12 million last year, and increased the payroll $12 million this year, it seems to me they are doing what they are saying, and putting the money back into the team.

batmanZoSo
04-26-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
I will defend the organization and say that this may be accurate, but who knows. If it is, payroll is up about $12 million from last season. There is no All Star Game, and I'm sure season ticket numbers are down. If they made $12 million last year, and increased the payroll $12 million this year, it seems to me they are doing what they are saying, and putting the money back into the team.

If I get what you're saying, the Sox in claiming breakeven were predicting the future. They're breaking even before the season starts, on paper, but they meake it sound like that's their operating profit. Attendance could go way up with a winner, and they would not break even, they'd profit. That's sleazy and deceitful of them.

Daver
04-26-2004, 11:08 PM
The fact that Forbes can only research what is in the public domain,and speculate on the rest,makes this whole discussion moot.

Anyone can speculate,but the real truth is in the the MLB books,a secret that is better guarded than the actual location of CIA headquarters.

dickallen15
04-27-2004, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Daver
The fact that Forbes can only research what is in the public domain,and speculate on the rest,makes this whole discussion moot.

Anyone can speculate,but the real truth is in the the MLB books,a secret that is better guarded than the actual location of CIA headquarters.

I agree 100%

Lip Man 1
04-27-2004, 01:46 PM
What Daver said has some truth HOWEVER unlike us fans, Forbes is an established magazine of the business world with the contacts, resources and ability to get more information of the 'inside' variety then any of us. (Either for or against current ownership.)

Their reputation and resources simply means that one has to look at their figures with the notion that at least this is pretty closer to the truth then mear speculation. (With respect to the financial analysis done by Daver and was it Bob?)

Lip

wdelaney72
04-27-2004, 01:51 PM
The bottom line is, JR is making money off the Sox. lots of it. He's a smart businessman who know exactly what he's doing. If this wasn't a profitable venture for JR, he would first of all never bought in the first place, and second, he'd have gotten out already.

iwannago
04-27-2004, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Daver
The fact that Forbes can only research what is in the public domain,and speculate on the rest,makes this whole discussion moot.

Anyone can speculate,but the real truth is in the the MLB books,a secret that is better guarded than the actual location of CIA headquarters.

True but Forbes has the Sox operating revenue at over $14M higher than the average team so that should say something.
By the way the CIA headquarters is not a secret, there's a big sign on the highway directing people to it.

dickallen15
04-27-2004, 03:17 PM
Does Forbes ever print their own operating income?

rahulsekhar
04-27-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
If I get what you're saying, the Sox in claiming breakeven were predicting the future. They're breaking even before the season starts, on paper, but they meake it sound like that's their operating profit. Attendance could go way up with a winner, and they would not break even, they'd profit. That's sleazy and deceitful of them.

It's not deceitful if they budget salary expense based on their estimates of revenue, and then roll over any excess to next years payroll. This year the $$ are higher than last year by I believe $8-10M. So that seems to em to be pretty much break-even, especially since (as already noted), there's no USCF ASG this year.

What will tell the tale is if they continue to contend and play well, and attendance either does or doesnt increase. If it does, and they don't go get reinforcements, that's quite telling that they're pocketing $$$. If the fans don't come out, then all the talk about the hordes of fans waiting for a contending team and good weather before they come out is a bunch of wishful thinking.