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View Full Version : Wunsch in Sox dog house?


hose
04-26-2004, 04:32 PM
This morning I heard on the radio that Kelly Wunsch doesn't figure into the Sox plans for this season. For whatever the reason Kelly has gotten underneath KW's skin and will probably be moved.

Boston was one of the names that popped up as possibly having interest in Wunsch .

The team that needs a left hander the most is the Angels . Besides Washburn they don't have another south paw on the roster. Any team that is going to contend for a WS title has to address this short coming, and the Angels can't expect a more readily available lefty than Wunsch.

Not knowing Anaheim's prospects , I would hope they have a good second baseman at the AA level available for trade.

Randar68
04-26-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by hose
This morning I heard on the radio that Kelly Wunsch doesn't figure into the Sox plans for this season. For whatever the reason Kelly has gotten underneath KW's skin and will probably be moved.

Boston was one of the names that popped up as possibly having interest in Wunsch .

The team that needs a left hander the most is the Angels . Besides Washburn they don't have another south paw on the roster. Any team that is going to contend for a WS title has to address this short coming, and the Angels can't expect a more readily available lefty than Wunsch.

Not knowing Anaheim's prospects , I would hope they have a good second baseman at the AA level available for trade.

How about...

Catcher? RHP? 1B prospect (should be expendable outside of Kotchman)

For a lefty specialist coming off of some relatively minor arm problems, they'd probably only get a marginal prospect in return. You still have Munoz waiting for a shot in the minors, too, so the Sox have a bunch of options there.

I love Kelly, but he is relatively expendable.

hose
04-26-2004, 04:35 PM
Boston - Bellhorn for Wunsch?

Hondo
04-26-2004, 04:36 PM
Getting under a GM's skin shouldn't figure into things unless the reason Kelly is getting under his skin is that he's pitching poorly.
Right now I like our bullpen. Pollite, Adkins, Cotts, Marte have been real good. Jackson has had a few shaky outings but has gotten the job done more often than not and I"m surprised Takatsu isn't floating on the Pacific Ocean.
If we could get a solid prospect for Wunsch I'd be fine with that.

hose
04-26-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
How about...

Catcher? RHP? 1B prospect (should be expendable outside of Kotchman)

For a lefty specialist coming off of some relatively minor arm problems, they'd probably only get a marginal prospect in return. You still have Munoz waiting for a shot in the minors, too, so the Sox have a bunch of options there.

I love Kelly, but he is relatively expendable.


With Cotts having early success and what the Sox have down in the minors I agree with you about Kelly being expendable.

hose
04-26-2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
Getting under a GM's skin shouldn't figure into things unless the reason Kelly is getting under his skin is that he's pitching poorly.
Right now I like our bullpen. Pollite, Adkins, Cotts, Marte have been real good. Jackson has had a few shaky outings but has gotten the job done more often than not and I"m surprised Takatsu isn't floating on the Pacific Ocean.
If we could get a solid prospect for Wunsch I'd be fine with that.


There is something to KW being pissed off. I don't have a clue what Kelly did or didn't do to cause the drift.

Get Steff on the case , she'll get the lowdown .

bobj4400
04-26-2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by hose
With Cotts having early success and what the Sox have down in the minors I agree with you about Kelly being expendable.

Expendable is probably right, but why does KW have an ax to grind with Wunsch? Anybody have information?

34 Inch Stick
04-26-2004, 04:47 PM
Because his expertise is narrow we will never get a return equal to his value. He is a proven, quality major league reliever. Keep him and I promise you there will be a need down the road this year.

Mohoney
04-26-2004, 04:49 PM
Williams wants Wunsch gone because the logical thing to do is get rid of Dan Wright, and Williams will NEVER do it. Getting rid of Wunsch puts the Wright issue on the back burner for another couple of months, and that's exactly what Williams wants.

Cotts starts, Wunsch takes his place in the bullpen, and Dan Wright GOES AWAY FOREVER!

Maybe the Expos would give us a marginal A-ball or Rookie League guy for Wright?

I saw Dan Wright before. His name was John Snyder.

0-3, 14.2 IP, 15 H, 10 ER, 8 BB, 4K, 6.14 ERA, 1.57 WHIP

Maybe Saturday was more an EXCEPTION than a RULE for this guy.

Randar68
04-26-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
Williams wants Wunsch gone because the logical thing to do is get rid of Dan Wright, and Williams will NEVER do it. Getting rid of Wunsch puts the Wright issue on the back burner for another couple of months, and that's exactly what Williams wants.

Cotts starts, Wunsch takes his place in the bullpen, and Dan Wright GOES AWAY FOREVER!

Maybe the Expos would give us a marginal A-ball or Rookie League guy for Wright?

I saw Dan Wright before. His name was John Snyder.

0-3, 14.2 IP, 15 H, 10 ER, 8 BB, 4K, 6.14 ERA, 1.57 WHIP

Maybe Saturday was more an EXCEPTION than a RULE for this guy.

Wow...

:whoflungpoo

hose
04-26-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Because his expertise is narrow we will never get a return equal to his value. He is a proven, quality major league reliever. Keep him and I promise you there will be a need down the road this year.


I think Wunsch is the mystery guy at the end of spring training that KW called out in the press.

Mohoney
04-26-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Wow...

:whoflungpoo

How do you figure?

Hondo
04-26-2004, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by hose
I think Wunsch is the mystery guy at the end of spring training that KW called out in the press.

I think you're right hose.

As for Wright, I think he should be moved to long relief.
Remember the Cotts fiasco in the Bronx last year? How could you forget right? Well, Wright came in for long relief that game and held the Yanks scoreless. He was respectable the rest of the season. Move either Cotts or Adkins to the rotation. Get rid of Koch, which would be easier if we locked up Maggs, bring in another arm and move Marte to the closer spot.

steff
04-26-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by hose
I think Wunsch is the mystery guy at the end of spring training that KW called out in the press.



No.

Randar68
04-26-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
Williams wants Wunsch gone because the logical thing to do is get rid of Dan Wright, and Williams will NEVER do it

Yep, that's the way any person in a position of personnel control works. Don't do things unless they are completely ILLOGICAL.

This was a thread about Kelly Wunsch and how it was REPORTED (by sports talk radio) he was in the dog house. If anything is ever true in this town, it's that the talk radio hosts in this town are too lazy to ever do any actual research or calling around. They throw the crap against the wall to see what sticks.

KW has his temper problems and has had run-ins with players before, no doubt.

However, your little Anti-Wright rant was both out of the blue and unrelated for the most part. John Snyder? Buddy, Danny Wright was throwing in the mid 90's the past couple of years, so what's to say he can't be valuable in the pen where he performed well last year in a middle-relief role?

I have no problem starting Felix Diaz, Cotts, Rauch... Personally, I thought all 3 of those guys outperformed Wright in the spring.

Hondo
04-26-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by steff
No.

Hey Steff,
Is it..... :bkoch:

SoxFan76
04-26-2004, 05:03 PM
I would be very upset if Kenny Williams also feels that Kelly is "expendable". I'd take Wunsch over Adkins and Cotts ANY DAY. Wunsch has proven himself, the 2 young guns could implode at any time. Hey, maybe they won't and the two of them will have a good year. But do you want those kind of questions while the Sox are trying to win a postseason series with the game on the line? I'd sure like Kelly in that situation, not Jon Adkins. But that's just me.

Also, I do understand the Sox have a lot of depth in the bullpen, and a relief guy could be traded for some young infielders. But I like to think about the present, and presently we have Jose, Willie, and Uribe. I'm fine with that, but maybe that's why I'm not a GM...

steff
04-26-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
Hey Steff,
Is it..... :bkoch:



ROTFLMAO!!!


No. It was not.


I'm off to my last night of bowling guys.. wish me a 300!! :D:

Hondo
04-26-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by steff
ROTFLMAO!!!


No. It was not.


I'm off to my last night of bowling guys.. wish me a 300!! :D:


A boy can dream, steff.

DREAM KILLER :)

Good luck tonight.

"If you will it there is no dream dude. Theodore Herzel, state of Israel"

Randar68
04-26-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I would be very upset if Kenny Williams also feels that Kelly is "expendable". I'd take Wunsch over Adkins and Cotts ANY DAY. Wunsch has proven himself, the 2 young guns could implode at any time. Hey, maybe they won't and the two of them will have a good year. But do you want those kind of questions while the Sox are trying to win a postseason series with the game on the line? I'd sure like Kelly in that situation, not Jon Adkins. But that's just me.

Also, I do understand the Sox have a lot of depth in the bullpen, and a relief guy could be traded for some young infielders. But I like to think about the present, and presently we have Jose, Willie, and Uribe. I'm fine with that, but maybe that's why I'm not a GM...

Kelly makes 800K in base salary, almost as much as Adkins, Cotts and Wright make combined.

If trading Kelly now gives KW a little more flexibility in spending via moves before the deadline, then I'm all for it.

iwannago
04-26-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Kelly makes 800K in base salary, almost as much as Adkins, Cotts and Wright make combined.

If trading Cotts now gives KW a little more flexibility in spending via moves before the deadline, then I'm all for it.

Why in the world would you want to trade Cotts?

SEALgep
04-26-2004, 05:17 PM
This may be inaccurate, but I heard that Wunsch came out and said he was injured when the trade for Bellhorn was about to go down and that ended talks, or something to that affect. Not sure if that's true or not, but if it is, that would certainly explain why KW would be pissed.

Randar68
04-26-2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
Why in the world would you want to trade Cotts?

LOL! DOH! Mind moves faster than my fingers. Sorry about that, I meant Kelly.

dickallen15
04-26-2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Because his expertise is narrow we will never get a return equal to his value. He is a proven, quality major league reliever. Keep him and I promise you there will be a need down the road this year.

I agree. Unless you are going to get a guy who can help you at the major league level this year, or a real good prospect, you'll wish you had Wunsch later in the season.

lowesox
04-26-2004, 06:16 PM
The only way I'd move Wunsch is if we were getting somebody useful in return. But something tells me there's something more to this - and that something is Kenny's big fat ego.

Tell me Takatsu deserves a spot more than Wunsch.

South Side
04-26-2004, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by hose
There is something to KW being pissed off. I don't have a clue what Kelly did or didn't do to cause the drift.

Get Steff on the case , she'll get the lowdown .

Why? Does she have connections or something?

hose
04-26-2004, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by South Side
Why? Does she have connections or something?


Steff would be WSI's equal to Mata Hari .

owensmouth
04-26-2004, 06:40 PM
Before you try and trade Wunsch, you'd better wait for him to have some success in triple A. Yesterday when I looked, his ERA was 9.00.

He's in a rehab assignment. Let him finish that up first.

TaylorStSox
04-26-2004, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
Williams wants Wunsch gone because the logical thing to do is get rid of Dan Wright, and Williams will NEVER do it. Getting rid of Wunsch puts the Wright issue on the back burner for another couple of months, and that's exactly what Williams wants.

Cotts starts, Wunsch takes his place in the bullpen, and Dan Wright GOES AWAY FOREVER!

Maybe the Expos would give us a marginal A-ball or Rookie League guy for Wright?

I saw Dan Wright before. His name was John Snyder.

0-3, 14.2 IP, 15 H, 10 ER, 8 BB, 4K, 6.14 ERA, 1.57 WHIP

Maybe Saturday was more an EXCEPTION than a RULE for this guy.


What on Earth does Dan Wright have to do with Wuncsh.

The fact is, we have 2 lefties in the pen that are more versatile than Kelly. Personally, I wouldn't want to see him get traded. Yet, what else are we going to do?

Foulke You
04-26-2004, 07:14 PM
Kelly seems to be such a likeable character and a great guy to have on the team. I wonder what KW's beef is with him?

I always liked Kelly when used in the exclusive "Lefty Specialist" role which is how Jerry Manuel used him in the 2000 season. Somehow, Jerry's philosophy changed and he left him out there to get clobbered by right handed batters in the following years. As long as Ozzie plans on using him as a guy to get left handed batters out, I would love to see Wunsch back up with the club after he is healthy.

ode to veeck
04-26-2004, 07:22 PM
Trading's not gonna really work out too well for the Sox at this point, because he's currently unproven damaged goods. Then again if he can get healthy, we'll definitely have a need for him this season, so I'd rather see us keep him. Only thing is, I don't know how much Kelly's got left in his shoulder.

Randar68
04-26-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
The only way I'd move Wunsch is if we were getting somebody useful in return. But something tells me there's something more to this - and that something is Kenny's big fat ego.

Tell me Takatsu deserves a spot more than Wunsch.

Hey Lowesox, if ya hadn't noticed, Takatsu throws with the right hand, something this team needs in the bullpen more than lefty specialists, of which they have 2 and another one major league ready waiting in the miniors.

Mohoney
04-26-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
What on Earth does Dan Wright have to do with Wuncsh.

The fact is, we have 2 lefties in the pen that are more versatile than Kelly. Personally, I wouldn't want to see him get traded. Yet, what else are we going to do?

Cotts can take Wright's place, thus opening a spot for a lefty in the bullpen.

lowesox
04-26-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Hey Lowesox, if ya hadn't noticed, Takatsu throws with the right hand, something this team needs in the bullpen more than lefty specialists, of which they have 2 and another one major league ready waiting in the miniors.

Hey Randar, if you hadn't noticed, Koch (our supposed closer) is blowing it, and Marte has been taking that role over. Also, Neal Cotts is a left handed pitcher but his future isn't going to be as a lefthanded specialist. In fact, right now, he's being used as a long reliever which is different from being a lefthanded specialist. Which means that we actually will need a lefty specialist.

TEll me again what Takatsu and his rare right arm bring to this team?

Rex Hudler
04-26-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Kelly seems to be such a likeable character and a great guy to have on the team. I wonder what KW's beef is with him?

I always liked Kelly when used in the exclusive "Lefty Specialist" role which is how Jerry Manuel used him in the 2000 season. Somehow, Jerry's philosophy changed and he left him out there to get clobbered by right handed batters in the following years. As long as Ozzie plans on using him as a guy to get left handed batters out, I would love to see Wunsch back up with the club after he is healthy.

It may not be a beef at all. Perhaps Ozzie wants more flexibility and they thought they could get some value out of Wunsch. Keeping a "lefty specialist" almost forces you to keep an extra pitcher to compensate for him. It could be exclusively an issue of performance and how they want this team built.

I found it interesting that Steff doesn't think it was him that KW was talking about in the media during ST. Less than a week after those comments were made, the Sox were trying to trade Wunsch. Perhaps they were independent of each other, but the timing seems strange. I know they were actively trying to move Kelly at least a week before he said he was hurt and the rumors of the potential trade surfaced.

Steff, wanna let us in on how it was, if not Kelly? :)

beckett21
04-26-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler

I found it interesting that Steff doesn't think it was him that KW was talking about in the media during ST. Less than a week after those comments were made, the Sox were trying to trade Wunsch. Perhaps they were independent of each other, but the timing seems strange. I know they were actively trying to move Kelly at least a week before he said he was hurt and the rumors of the potential trade surfaced.

Steff, wanna let us in on how it was, if not Kelly? :)

IIRC the consensus here was that it was Schoeneweis, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed in so many words.

Randar68
04-27-2004, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Hey Randar, if you hadn't noticed, Koch (our supposed closer) is blowing it, and Marte has been taking that role over. Also, Neal Cotts is a left handed pitcher but his future isn't going to be as a lefthanded specialist. In fact, right now, he's being used as a long reliever which is different from being a lefthanded specialist. Which means that we actually will need a lefty specialist.

TEll me again what Takatsu and his rare right arm bring to this team?

Cotts, for the time being is a combo middle reliever, but he's being used in situations where he is going to face tough lefties. Munoz is another lefty in the minors who has been lights out when healthy for 2 years now.

So, lefties who could fill Wunsch's role in addition to doing other things...

Schoeny if ever falters as starter
Cotts
Munoz
Marte

and then there's Wunsch...

Takatsu has been outstanding since his first outing, so I don't know why you're barking up that tree. He's been throwing his fastball 85-87 mph and some of his offspeed pitches barely topping 60 mph.

In case you didn't know a damn thing about pitching, a 20 mph difference between fastball and offspeed pitch is pretty damn amazing, let alone if he can change speeds everywhere between.

He's not the second coming of Dennis Eckersly, but this team is sadly lacking in RIGHT-HANDED pitching, while we have a plethora of lefties and a bunch more in the minors farther down the road.

Deal from strength. It seems some people have a fundamental issue or lack of understanding with the way baseball works...

SEALgep
04-27-2004, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
IIRC the consensus here was that it was Schoeneweis, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed in so many words. I was part of the consensus, but I think it was obviously wrong for a couple reasons. One, Schoney would have to really mess up in order to lose KW's favor, which ST wouldn't be enough. Two, Kelly's been on the block since ST. That Bellhorn rumor was supposed to happen before the season even started.

depy48
04-27-2004, 01:03 AM
I'm a pretty big supporter of Kelly, i think he proved he can deliver in clutch situations. He also has experience, he's been in our bullpen longer than anyone else in there currently. I think by default, that makes his a leader in the bullpen. Kelly is a good guy to have around, and if i had my way i'd put cotts in the rotation and send wright to the bullpen, and give Koch to the circus. Then have Wunch where he belongs, in the Sox's bullpen.

soxtalker
04-27-2004, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by owensmouth
Before you try and trade Wunsch, you'd better wait for him to have some success in triple A. Yesterday when I looked, his ERA was 9.00.

He's in a rehab assignment. Let him finish that up first.

Are there any rules governing how long a rehab stint in the minors can last?

lowesox
04-27-2004, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Cotts, for the time being is a combo middle reliever, but he's being used in situations where he is going to face tough lefties. Munoz is another lefty in the minors who has been lights out when healthy for 2 years now.

So, lefties who could fill Wunsch's role in addition to doing other things...

Schoeny if ever falters as starter
Cotts
Munoz
Marte

and then there's Wunsch...

Takatsu has been outstanding since his first outing, so I don't know why you're barking up that tree. He's been throwing his fastball 85-87 mph and some of his offspeed pitches barely topping 60 mph.

In case you didn't know a damn thing about pitching, a 20 mph difference between fastball and offspeed pitch is pretty damn amazing, let alone if he can change speeds everywhere between.

He's not the second coming of Dennis Eckersly, but this team is sadly lacking in RIGHT-HANDED pitching, while we have a plethora of lefties and a bunch more in the minors farther down the road.

Deal from strength. It seems some people have a fundamental issue or lack of understanding with the way baseball works...

Wow. That was an awfully long post, but not a lot of substance. I think the two main points in your post were that Takatsu A) Has been sparkling in his last 4 outings, and B) Is able to mix his pitches up in ways that I can't possibly understand.

Ok so A) I don't care about 4 outings - not those 4 at least. Look at the entire picture: Takatsu was awful all through spring training (where many of his appearances were against low level minor leaguers) and because of that has been pitching mainly in situations where the game isn't on the line. Why? Because he hasn't done a thing to prove he's worthy of anything better. Wunsch, on the other hand, is a guy who has shown in the past he can be a key contributor against lefties in late innings.

B) I think it's great that Takatsu is able to mix it up so well. In fact, if he's as big as a stud as you say he is maybe we can market him to other teams. Personally, though, I think you're trying to show off that you know how fast Takatsu throws instead of sticking to the argument at hand: whether we need Kelly's lefthanded arm in our bullpen. How Takatsu mixes his pitches up only tells me that he has the potential to be good. But until he shows that potential, I'd rather have a proven lefty than an old pitcher who only has potential.

Now, you also talked a little bit about potentially changing Shoenweiss from a starter, downgrading Marte from the closer role it seems he's won, or calling up a raw rookie in a year where we could have playoff potential. Why would you do any of that when you have a guy like Wunsch whose proven himself?

I'm sorry if my post is so long, but the truth is, I wanted to respond to yours (even if you didn't really respond to mine) but a lot of what you wrote just didn't make any sense at all. Although, if I ever do need to know how fast a pitcher can throw, now I'll know who to ask.

Randar68
04-27-2004, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Personally, though, I think you're trying to show off that you know how fast Takatsu throws instead of sticking to the argument at hand: whether we need Kelly's lefthanded arm in our bullpen.

LOL. Yeah, I guess I didn't address that by listing the other 4 options immediately at hand, or the fact that we're short in right-handed bullpen talent, or that Wunsch is one of 5 left-handed options (4 even if you discount Schoeny), or the little matter that Marte is more effective against lefties than righties...

Sheeesh. Yep, I was just trying to show off knowing the speed of his pitches. Reading comprehension, folks.

lowesox
04-27-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
The fact that we're short in right-handed bullpen talent... Yep, I was just trying to show off knowing the speed of his pitches. Reading comprehension, folks.

Well, I have a great idea - why don't we use your method of creating 'options' for our weak 'righthanded pitching'. We'll just move Garland and Loaiza to the bullpen. Or maybe, we could call up... a minor leaguer... um, any minor leaguer. There. Now we have tons of righthanded relief options.

Originally posted by Randar68
Reading comprehension, folks.

I love arguing with guys who can't make their point so instead they get personal. I'll look forward to your next attack. Frankly, I'm surprised you held off this long.

jabrch
04-27-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Are there any rules governing how long a rehab stint in the minors can last?

30 days - IIRC

Randar68
04-27-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Well, I have a great idea - why don't we use your method of creating 'options' for our weak 'righthanded pitching'. We'll just move Garland and Loaiza to the bullpen. Or maybe, we could call up... a minor leaguer... um, any minor leaguer. There. Now we have tons of righthanded relief options.



I love arguing with guys who can't make their point so instead they get personal. I'll look forward to your next attack. Frankly, I'm surprised you held off this long.


I presented Scott as an option because 3 starts does not make a season. If he struggles as a starter as the season progresses, he's shown the ability the past 2 years to be very effective out of the bullpen against lefties.

You're knee-jerk slippery-slope reasoning is silly and ignorant. The changing speeds point was a point towards the effectiveness Takatsu may be able to have down the road, and you apparently either don't believe 20 mph differences between fastballs and offspeed pitches is effective, or you're avoiding that by ridiculing it as being me showing-off.

I made my point pretty concisely, and all you can do is retort with sarcasm and slippery-slope reasoning that has zero basis. You don't have a point. A team doesn't need more than 2 left-handed specialists (or relievers who can be used in that role if needed), let alone 4 or 5.

I don't really see what is so hard to understand. Do you get off on trying to bait me into calling you an moron? You're doing a fantastic job of proving my point for me if that's your intent.

poorme
04-27-2004, 12:07 PM
Wunsch has proven to be an effective big-league reliever. If he's healthy, he ought to be up with us or dealt for something. He's a better pitcher than Adkins, for sure. I'd rather have Cotts in the rotation with Wunsch taking his bullpen spot. Wright should be demoted.

Mickster
04-27-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Wright should be demoted.

Can't. Out of options. Pen or trade/release.

steff
04-27-2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
IIRC the consensus here was that it was Schoeneweis, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed in so many words.



From what I understand... there was a misunderstanding about the # of tickets players could give out. Scott wanted a large number of tickets.. he was told no.. and he replied "do you know who I am..?" That's what the ST beef was. As for Kelly.. no way does he have a beef with Kenny. And no way would Kelly would lie. He is not that way.

poorme
04-27-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Can't. Out of options.

That doesn't sound (w)right, but I'll take your word for it.

Edit: Yeah, this is his 4th (partial) year. Release him.

wdelaney72
04-27-2004, 12:43 PM
Kelly is a great interview on the radio, and a great pitcher when he's healthy, but that's the problem. He's been injured EVERY year!

He Gone!

lowesox
04-27-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I presented Scott as an option because 3 starts does not make a season.

The problem is we're talking about right now. You continue to talk about potential and down the road. Why? Wunsch is a guy who can do the job immediately.

I'm the person not making sense?

Originally posted by Randar68
And you apparently either don't believe 20 mph differences between fastballs and offspeed pitches is effective...

Yes already. We agree. It's good when a pitcher can change speeds. Congratulations on knowing that. The fact remains there's a difference between being able to do, and doing.

Originally posted by Randar68
A team doesn't need more than 2 left-handed specialists

If tonight, Billy Koch is reinstated as our longterm closer you'll be absolutely on the money. Because Marte will then become our lefty specialist. That won't happen though. Marte's been our closer lately, and I think will end up our closer for the rest of the year. Shoenweiss is a starter. Cotts is a long reliever. You fail to make your point here.

Originally posted by Randar68
Do you get off on trying to bait me into calling you an moron?

Isn't it obvious?

I suppose you're not really good with things that obvious, so let me spell it out for you:

Originally posted by lowesox
I love arguing with guys who can't make their point so instead they get personal.

I think we've beaten this dead horse. I'll allow you the last word. I'm sure it will be brilliant.

jlh0023
04-27-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
Getting under a GM's skin shouldn't figure into things unless the reason Kelly is getting under his skin is that he's pitching poorly.
Right now I like our bullpen. Pollite, Adkins, Cotts, Marte have been real good. Jackson has had a few shaky outings but has gotten the job done more often than not and I"m surprised Takatsu isn't floating on the Pacific Ocean.
If we could get a solid prospect for Wunsch I'd be fine with that.

First of all, I don't know how Wunsch managed to piss off KW, but if he's a problem behind the scenes, that could be a good reason to lose him. There are plenty of reasons to get rid of players besides performance. If he's a problem in the clubhouse and hurts the team, he could be expendible.
Also, I realize that some of our bullpen guys have had alright outings, but I'd call it a stretch to say you're happy with the bullpen. When a four run lead in the ninth isn't enough, your bullpen is in trouble.

beckett21
04-27-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by steff
From what I understand... there was a misunderstanding about the # of tickets players could give out. Scott wanted a large number of tickets.. he was told no.. and he replied "do you know who I am..?" That's what the ST beef was. As for Kelly.. no way does he have a beef with Kenny. And no way would Kelly would lie. He is not that way.

Thanks for clearing that up Steff! :D:

I can't believe they didn't cave to his demands once they knew who he was! :D:

Mohoney
04-27-2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Can't. Out of options. Pen or trade/release.

He just might clear waivers. It's not out of the realm of possibility here.

South Side
04-30-2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by steff
From what I understand... there was a misunderstanding about the # of tickets players could give out. Scott wanted a large number of tickets.. he was told no.. and he replied "do you know who I am..?" That's what the ST beef was. As for Kelly.. no way does he have a beef with Kenny. And no way would Kelly would lie. He is not that way.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be nosy but I assume you're employed by the Sox?