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jlh0023
04-26-2004, 01:41 PM
This thread really has nothing to do with any recent events, but just with my frustration over Thomas'. The real problem lies in the fact that he is my favorite baseball player, and i hold him in such high regard. But i'm sick of his attitude (not so much this year, but the past few), i'm sick of his decision to hit for homers instead of maintain his average and rbi's. And i'm sick of his inconsistency. Now my main concern is the wellbeing of the present team, but I would really like to have Frank remain a southsider through his entire career. A part of me wants him to retire before he further damages his career or the teams wellbeing, but then he comes back on a hot streak. What do you think....has he got a few more good years in him....will he end his career hitting .300 (currently .309 and dropping fast).....is he helping the team today and will he continue to help it tomorow....?

sas1974
04-26-2004, 01:50 PM
Thomas is still VERY productive. He hit 42 home runs last year. He DEMANDS respect when he's at the plate and protects the guys around him in the lineup. Big Frank is most definitely a key to our success.

Blueprint1
04-26-2004, 01:51 PM
Thomas gets on base thats key.

jlh0023
04-26-2004, 09:20 PM
Thomas getting on base is not necesarily a valid statement. He maintains a high walk rate, but his average is dropping fast, I don't know that we can count on him to get on base all the time.

RKMeibalane
04-26-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023
Thomas getting on base is not necesarily a valid statement. He maintains a high walk rate, but his average is dropping fast, I don't know that we can count on him to get on base all the time.

As of now, his batting average is the exact same as it was last season (.267). I don't remember anybody complaining about it then, and I don't see the point in doing so now. Batting average in and of itself is overrated, IMO. The number that matters today in MLB is OPS. As long as a hitter maitains an OPS between .900-1.000 or higher, than he's doing his job.

jlh0023
04-26-2004, 09:30 PM
OPS is important too, but I wouldn't underrate average. I myself most definately and vocally disagree with Thomas's move away from average and towards power. His long balls are helpful to, but when you're not getting the bat on the ball you're not as much of a threat. Pitchers today just don't tremble when he steps into the batters box like they used to.

ChiWhiteSox1337
04-26-2004, 09:35 PM
His .267 average looks bad when you remember him always being over .300 in the 90's and in 2000, but he still gets a lot of rbis, homers, and walks so he's still very important and a productive part of the lineup. I'd take the current Frank Thomas over any other DH in the AL.

ode to veeck
04-26-2004, 09:41 PM
But i'm sick of his attitude (not so much this year, but the past few),

He's definitely figured out how to have something of a new attitude this year, so why don't you make the effort and drop the hatchet too.

(Personnally, I think the reports of his bad attitude have always been WAYYY overrated IMHO)

In the short term, I'd rather have him hitting long balls and saving his hammy from the basepaths (like he's already done a couple of times this week). He still has excellent OBP, and when you add in he lets loose with 17 pitch ABs or some real power on a somewhat regular basis, and you've potentially got an anchor linup slot filled in a run scoring machine ... as long as wee willie and dramsfelt aren't pinch hitting behind him

voodoochile
04-26-2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
He's definitely figured out how to have something of a new attitude this year, so why don't you make the effort and drop the hatchet too.

(Personnally, I think the reports of his bad attitude have always been WAYYY overrated IMHO)

In the short term, I'd rather have him hitting long balls and saving his hammy from the basepaths (like he's already done a couple of times this week). He still has excellent OBP, and when you add in he lets loose with 17 pitch ABs or some real power on a somewhat regular basis, and you've potentially got an anchor linup slot filled in a run scoring machine ... as long as wee willie and dramsfelt aren't pinch hitting behind him

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/isotopes/images/Clap.gif

I just don't get why people think Thomas isn't productive anymore. He is still a top 10 AL hitter and as good at least as anyone else on the team from an all around perspective. If he had any protection at all, he would be absolutely killing the ball.

In addition, his average (the only stat that seems to matter for JLH) is up over 40 points since his 3-game layoff. That means he is starting to get his licks in. If not for a great catch in RCF the other day by Tampa, it would be even higher and we would be talking about Frank returning to form and driving the ball the other way.

sas1974
04-26-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
If not for a great catch in RCF the other day by Tampa, it would be even higher and we would be talking about Frank returning to form and driving the ball the other way.

I think we can still talk about Frank returning to form, out or no out. When he starts driving the ball to the right center field gap like that, he's locked in. He is arguably the most dangerous hitter in the AL when he gets in a groove.

MRKARNO
04-26-2004, 10:31 PM
He is so crucial to this offense. It was clear when he was gone that the White Sox were not nearly as good of a team without him. He changed the whole dynamic of the lineup because he gets on twice a game on average and sees a lot of pitches.

RKMeibalane
04-26-2004, 10:38 PM
Frank has really been swinging the bat well the past few games. I'm looking forward to him getting back out there for the series vs. Cleveland. Frank is one of the most fun hitters to watch when he's on his game.

batmanZoSo
04-26-2004, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023
, I don't know that we can count on him to get on base all the time.

How does .490 sound?


Here are the facts.

--Frank Thomas has a great attitude.
--He is not selfish.
--He is not a whiner.
--He is still a fantastic hitter.
--He was the best hitter on the Sox last year.
--He is the best hitter on the Sox this year.
--He is the best hitter we've ever had.
--He is the only consistent hitter we have. Batting average is irrelevant. No one takes walks but him.

Don't read the Sun-Times anymore.

Deadguy
04-27-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by jlh0023
His long balls are helpful to, but when you're not getting the bat on the ball you're not as much of a threat. Pitchers today just don't tremble when he steps into the batters box like they used to.

You do realise that the Sox were 27-11 when Thomas homered last year, don't you? That means we were 6 games under .500 when Thomas didn't homer, so I don't see how Thomas hitting the long ball is hurting the Sox.

As far as complaints about him not getting on base enough, isn't he leading the league in OBP? Do you want him to lead the league by a wider margin? He's about the only one on the team who doesn't selfishly hack at everything that is remotely close to the plate.

And as far as pitchers not trembling when he comes to the plate, he was voted the most feared hitter in the division among various managers and players.

jlh0023
04-27-2004, 01:36 PM
You seem to have me wrong. I like Thomas as much as the next guy, but certain parts of his game have me worried. You keep referring to 'when he's on his game' or 'when he's in the groove'. Comments like that are evidence that even you realize that he has been inconsistent. I understand that players have slumps, and I don't know if he was slumping earlier this season, or he is going to be streaky all season.
Also, I didn't say his long balls hurt the team. I just think that he has more to offer than just the long ball, and he should utilize all of his assets, not just his power.
I have noted his attitude adjustment too, and maybe it is just my sources (because I don't see him in camp). But in previous seasons, his attitude has been an issue. Talking about how the club owes him a big contract because he was good years ago, and showing up to camp late. I'm not saying he hasn't change, and that those arguments don't take away from his incredible presence in the clubhouse, but they are/ or were issues to consider. If that is a thing of the past, then great.
I'm just trying to bring up some of the issues of concern to see what you guys think, i'm not anti Thomas at all.