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crector
04-26-2004, 09:41 AM
Turns out that KW's pick up of Juan Uribe was a great move after all and that KW's signing Lee to a 2 yr. $15 Mil. contract was not so great. Let's face it: If the lineup spots were reversed and Lee was in the batter's box with the bases loaded, he would have gone down hacking away at pitches outside the strike zone.


What KW really should do now is package Lee with Wunsch and trade them to Pittsburgh for Rob Mackowiack (Chicago native & Sox fan in addition to being a solid player) or to Texas for Soriano or perhaps some other team for a decent player. That way, we can get some good out of an injury prone reliever and a space cadet player.


What do you guys think?

jabrch
04-26-2004, 09:49 AM
Did you know Carlos hit .291 with 31 HR and 113 RBI last year? Why are you proposing dumping him for a guy who is a BACKUP in Pittsburgh? That's a silly concept to me.

It hasn't be 20 games yet, and Lee is still sluggin almost .450 despite at .254 average.

:chickenlittle

Tekijawa
04-26-2004, 11:08 AM
Are you kidding me, please tell me this thread should be in teal??? Rob Mackowiack ??? I wouldn't trade him strait up for WUNSCH!!!

Cubbiesuck13
04-26-2004, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by crector
Turns out that KW's pick up of Juan Uribe was a great move after all and that KW's signing Lee to a 2 yr. $15 Mil. contract was not so great. Let's face it: If the lineup spots were reversed and Lee was in the batter's box with the bases loaded, he would have gone down hacking away at pitches outside the strike zone.


What KW really should do now is package Lee with Wunsch and trade them to Pittsburgh for Rob Mackowiack (Chicago native & Sox fan in addition to being a solid player) or to Texas for Soriano or perhaps some other team for a decent player. That way, we can get some good out of an injury prone reliever and a space cadet player.


What do you guys think?


allright marriotti, do you remember what Lee did against the cubs with the bases loaded? i didn't think so.

dpbyron
04-26-2004, 11:24 AM
Rob Mackowiak! As a former teammate of his (I know, you're happy for me), I would love to have him on the Sox. He can play every position, including catcher, but trade Carlos Lee for him!? WHAT!



:threadsucks

Kilroy
04-26-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by crector
What do you guys think?

While I agree that CLee getting picked off first yesterday was a complete dumb-ass move on his part, your trade idea is dumber by far.

Lip Man 1
04-26-2004, 11:43 AM
I think it's a little early to be saying that the Juan Uribe trade is a success. Let's see what this guy can do over the long haul of the season. He had stretches like this in Colorado but was wildly inconsistent.

Lip

Randar68
04-26-2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think it's a little early to be saying that the Juan Uribe trade is a success. Let's see what this guy can do over the long haul of the season. He had stretches like this in Colorado but was wildly inconsistent.

Lip

If he was hitting .200, Lip, you'd already be calling it a complete disaster. Stick a sock in it.

kermittheefrog
04-26-2004, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by crector

What KW really should do now is package Lee with Wunsch and trade them to Pittsburgh for Rob Mackowiack (Chicago native & Sox fan in addition to being a solid player) or to Texas for Soriano or perhaps some other team for a decent player. That way, we can get some good out of an injury prone reliever and a space cadet player.


What do you guys think?

Lets see Texas traded Arod for Soriano. It would only make sense if they traded Soriano away for Lee and WUnsch. Right?

jabrch
04-26-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Lets see Texas traded Arod for Soriano. It would only make sense if they traded Soriano away for Lee and WUnsch. Right?

On top of that, Lee would be more expensive than Soriano this year, and plays a position where Texas has a glut...

Dadawg_77
04-26-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Lets see Texas traded Arod for Soriano. It would only make sense if they traded Soriano away for Lee and WUnsch. Right?

Well they still have Tom Hicks and Hart running the team.

34 Inch Stick
04-26-2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think it's a little early to be saying that the Juan Uribe trade is a success. Let's see what this guy can do over the long haul of the season. He had stretches like this in Colorado but was wildly inconsistent.

Lip

It's not too early because you can say with some assurance that Aaron Miles will never hit .300 in a month in his career. We acquired a younger current major leaguer for an older career minor leaguer at the same position. It was a no brainer.

hold2dibber
04-26-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
It's not too early because you can say with some assurance that Aaron Miles will never hit .300 in a month in his career. We acquired a younger current major leaguer for an older career minor leaguer at the same position. It was a no brainer.


It was a no brainer in that KW got a guy with a much higher ceiling in the deal. But that doesn't mean you call the trade a success yet. If Uribe crashes and burns and is out of baseball in two years while Miles goes on to a few productive years in Colorado, the trade is not a success (especially if Willie Harris crashes and burns and the Sox have no other acceptable 2B in the organization).

It has been 17 games - Uribe has looked good and I'm optimistic that the trade will turn out for the better for the Sox. But Lip is absolutely right - it is way too early to make a definitive determination on whether the trade was a sucess.

CubKilla
04-26-2004, 01:30 PM
Sounds like the kind of deal KW would be all over.

pudge
04-26-2004, 01:31 PM
I can understand the frustration with CLee - it seems to happen every year, he goes through a really bad stretch and makes some dumb moves that cost the team a game or two... I think you just have to accept it as part of the CLee package, and realize that he's still a valuable asset to have in the lineup over the long haul.

jabrch
04-26-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Sounds like the kind of deal KW would be all over.

Huh?

Can you give me an example of a trade where KW gave up a guy who was a .280+, 30, 100+ type guy, along with a very good lefty RP and got a guy who isn't even a good enough player to start in PITTSBURGH in return?

kittle42
04-26-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by crector
What KW really should do now is package Lee with Wunsch and trade them to Pittsburgh for Rob Mackowiack (Chicago native & Sox fan in addition to being a solid player) or to Texas for Soriano or perhaps some other team for a decent player.

What do you guys think?

I think you just stated that Alfonso Soriano is worth just as much as a backup utility infielder on the Pirates and vice versa.

This is worse than a trade thread on a sportsline.com message board.

FarWestChicago
04-26-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
If he was hitting .200, Lip, you'd already be calling it a complete disaster. Stick a sock in it. You got that right. I also vote for the sock.

iwannago
04-26-2004, 06:20 PM
Luckily CLee mistake did not cost us the game. I would trade CLee for Soriano in a heartbeat.

Kadafi311
04-26-2004, 07:15 PM
Talking of trading away El Cabayo is friggin ridiculous. Especially for Soriano... we already have two young, albeit unproven, but seemingly capable 2nd basemen in Harris and Uribe.

If you take a look at the career numbers of Lee vs. Soriano they are virtually identical. The only major differences being that Soriano can swipe 40 bags a year... however, Lee walks quite a bit more, nearly double (and Lee is still a potential 20 bag swiper).

Carlos is a career .283 hitter, .480 slug, and .824 OPS. Not to mention averaging 30 HRs and 90 RBIs per year. Not bad for a 27 year old left fielder who many believe hasn't played his best baseball.

The only reason anyone would even mention trading Carlos for Soriano is they heard Soriano's name on Baseball Tonight every night for the past three years when he played on the Fakees.

CLee is nothing more than a victim of no facetime - if he played in Boston or New York, kids would be carrying lunch pales to school with his mug plastered on the front.

SoxxoS
04-26-2004, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
If he was hitting .200, Lip, you'd already be calling it a complete disaster. Stick a sock in it.

Sorry Lip, he got you there.

SoxxoS
04-26-2004, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
Luckily CLee mistake did not cost us the game. I would trade CLee for Soriano in a heartbeat.

I would to, just based on that fact that 2B is a lot harder to fill, and we have Jeremy Reed in AAA. You have to look at it like

Reed and Soriano for Lee. It's very, very hard to argue with that...

jabrch
04-26-2004, 08:27 PM
The problem with the concept is that Texas has no use for another OF. They won't trade Soriano for an OF that costs more than Soriano. They want MLB ready prospects who will reduce their payroll and fill holes in the team, particularly SP (they wanted the Mets to give them Kasmir)

indysoxfan
04-26-2004, 08:43 PM
carlos is a meathead.... but he is our meathead

i say we keep him


he reminds me of santa's little helper

ode to veeck
04-26-2004, 08:50 PM
carlos is a meathead.... but he is our meathead

i say we keep him

he reminds me of santa's little helper

Post of the Week!!!,

... welcome to WSI by the way!

Trade Caballo and Kelly!?!? Put a sock in it!

PaleHoseGeorge
04-26-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by indysoxfan
carlos is a meathead.... but he is our meathead

i say we keep him


he reminds me of santa's little helper

Post of the Week! (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13)

Congratulations.

:gulp:

jlh0023
04-26-2004, 10:26 PM
Rob Mackowiack!!! Are you being sarcastic. Have some patience, the season's just started and Carlos is on a slow start. That doesn't mean we should trade him for the equivalent of, well, someone who's not very good at all. I am not strictly opposed to trading El Caballo (not that I want to) if the right deal comes along, but he is a great asset to our team.... and a serious cub killer too.

batmanZoSo
04-26-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think it's a little early to be saying that the Juan Uribe trade is a success. Let's see what this guy can do over the long haul of the season. He had stretches like this in Colorado but was wildly inconsistent.

Lip

He's not a .320 hitter, but he's proven that he's a worthy Major League middle infielder, unlike Willie and Rowand at their positions. He can hit his share and he's a pretty good fielder too.

I don't think he can hit lead off full time, we'll have to see about that. But we need a lead off hitter who can steal and take walks anyway. Uribe will be a fantastic number 9 hitter if and when we get a good leadoff hitter.

34 Inch Stick
04-27-2004, 09:37 AM
If the Sox sign Magglio then we better get used to the idea of Carlos being traded.

Dadawg_77
04-27-2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Kadafi311
Talking of trading away El Cabayo is friggin ridiculous. Especially for Soriano... we already have two young, albeit unproven, but seemingly capable 2nd basemen in Harris and Uribe.


Huh? If the Sox could (there isn't a pink deep enough for this statement) Soriano for Lee, they would have to. Willie and Uribe are not in his league.

Petch
04-27-2004, 09:59 AM
It is that kind of talk that always ends up screwing the white sox over. Foulke had one bad set of months and we traded him. He is one of baseball's best closers. Carlos hasn't even had enough time to have a bad set of months and you want him gone. He has the potential to be one of the best outfielders in baseball as his numbers last year indicated. We don't need to ring the trade bell just yet, or in my opinion, at all this season or next.

jabrch
04-27-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
If the Sox sign Magglio then we better get used to the idea of Carlos being traded.

Why are you so sure? We have Carlos at a decent price for one more year, right? Reed could play CF next year. If Magglio gets resigned, it won't be at a major raise over his current salary, so that won't screw us up that way, right?

SSN721
04-27-2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Why are you so sure? We have Carlos at a decent price for one more year, right? Reed could play CF next year. If Magglio gets resigned, it won't be at a major raise over his current salary, so that won't screw us up that way, right?

But if CLee ends up becoming the player or close to the player we all somewhat expect him to, then we will have two corner OFs asking for at least 12-15 mil a year when we have a farm system that is supposedly busting at the seams with fantastic corner OF prospects. And I thought it was stated by a lot of posters here that have a much greater knowledge of the farm system that Reed is not a good CFer (or at least not a natural CFer). much better to play him at one of the corners. I would like to keep CLee, because I hate dumping players when they are coming into their own and will be an important part of this ballclub. But if we can attain a more valuable player for second, short, pitching or CF by trading him I would much rather do that. I would love to be able to keep Maggs, use the money from CLee to sign Beltran (like that would happen) and then play Reed in left. Then we can use CLee for trading for other holes on this team.

pjthesox13
04-27-2004, 11:53 AM
and yet as Sox fans we strive for perfection from our players. Carlos Lee does have his bad stretchs and I do agree that if we sign Maggs than Lee might be up on the chopping block. He is just coming into his own but if we can fill the gap somewhere than maybe we should.

As for infielders go, Vidro is a guy you could pick up for next to nothing since Montreal is moving or going out of business. He is dying to be on a team with run support again.

jabrch
04-27-2004, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by SSN721
But if CLee ends up becoming the player or close to the player we all somewhat expect him to, then we will have two corner OFs asking for at least 12-15 mil a year when we have a farm system that is supposedly busting at the seams with fantastic corner OF prospects. And I thought it was stated by a lot of posters here that have a much greater knowledge of the farm system that Reed is not a good CFer (or at least not a natural CFer). much better to play him at one of the corners. I would like to keep CLee, because I hate dumping players when they are coming into their own and will be an important part of this ballclub. But if we can attain a more valuable player for second, short, pitching or CF by trading him I would much rather do that. I would love to be able to keep Maggs, use the money from CLee to sign Beltran (like that would happen) and then play Reed in left. Then we can use CLee for trading for other holes on this team.

Carlos isn't making near Beltran money. I don't think that is reasonable. However, if the right deal is there, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Carlos. I just don't think that is the route that we will end up taking.