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View Full Version : Do we even want Wunsch back?


MRKARNO
04-24-2004, 09:59 PM
I dont even think we really need to have Wunsch back. Our Bullpen has been excellent since the opening day disaster.

Marte-Unscored upon in 7 innings since the disaster

Politte-Unscored upon in 5 innings since the disaster; 6 Ks

Koch-One disasterous outing which we were lucky to win and took part in the original disaster; can't be moved or relegated to the minors

Shingo-Bad first outing, lots of Ks. Will work pretty well as a situational righty: .111 OPS vs Rightys, 1.500 OPS vs Lefties

Adkins-Unscored upon in 4.2 IP, 4 Ks. Beloved by Ozzie

Cotts-One run allowed in 7 IP. Should be a starter, might be the only way in for Wunsch.

Jackson-7.1 IP, only 2 runs allowed vs Yanks in the same outing. Has done everything asked of him.

I just dont see where Wunsch fits in this bullpen. If we can get Mark Bellhorn still when Nomar comes back, we really should or some other second basemen.

SEALgep
04-24-2004, 10:05 PM
I would like to have Bellhorn, but not as an every day man. Who knows, maybe they're thinking he could be the new utility guy and have Uribe over at second when Jose is healthy. An added left handed bat off the bench with experience, and can be pretty solid at times.

batmanZoSo
04-24-2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I dont even think we really need to have Wunsch back. Our Bullpen has been excellent since the opening day disaster.

Marte-Unscored upon in 7 innings since the disaster

Politte-Unscored upon in 5 innings since the disaster; 6 Ks

Koch-One disasterous outing which we were lucky to win and took part in the original disaster; can't be moved or relegated to the minors

Shingo-Bad first outing, lots of Ks. Will work pretty well as a situational righty: .111 OPS vs Rightys, 1.500 OPS vs Lefties

Adkins-Unscored upon in 4.2 IP, 4 Ks. Beloved by Ozzie

Cotts-One run allowed in 7 IP. Should be a starter, might be the only way in for Wunsch.

Jackson-7.1 IP, only 2 runs allowed vs Yanks in the same outing. Has done everything asked of him.

I just dont see where Wunsch fits in this bullpen. If we can get Mark Bellhorn still when Nomar comes back, we really should or some other second basemen.

If Cotts starts (which he should), Wright would go to the pen. Wunsch is done with us I think. Unless we drump Mike Jackson...which I wouldn't be opposed to.

MRKARNO
04-24-2004, 10:20 PM
Maybe we could package Wunsch and Wright together so we can keep our bullpen as it is while moving Cotts to the rotation and adding the lefty Bellhorn to our bench. We'll need the bullpen less if Cotts is starting. :smile:

batmanZoSo
04-24-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Maybe we could package Wunsch and Wright together so we can keep our bullpen as it is while moving Cotts to the rotation and adding the lefty Bellhorn to our bench. We'll need the bullpen less if Cotts is starting. :smile:

Cotts is still no answer until he proves he is. He might go in the five slot and stink it up, his relief success might not be an indication of progress toward being a good starter. I have hope that he will be a good fifth starter, but we'll see.

But Wright is 3-0 again..in losing. He's also winless in his last ten starts or something I heard on the radio. That simply means he's not a big league starter. Cotts has done a great job in the bullpen, so you gotta give him the ball and see what he can do. He might be just as bad, or comparably bad, but I don't what to tell you Ozzie, Wright f-ing sucks. PERIOD.

beckett21
04-24-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I dont even think we really need to have Wunsch back. Our Bullpen has been excellent since the opening day disaster.

Marte-Unscored upon in 7 innings since the disaster

Politte-Unscored upon in 5 innings since the disaster; 6 Ks

Koch-One disasterous outing which we were lucky to win and took part in the original disaster; can't be moved or relegated to the minors

Shingo-Bad first outing, lots of Ks. Will work pretty well as a situational righty: .111 OPS vs Rightys, 1.500 OPS vs Lefties

Adkins-Unscored upon in 4.2 IP, 4 Ks. Beloved by Ozzie

Cotts-One run allowed in 7 IP. Should be a starter, might be the only way in for Wunsch.

Jackson-7.1 IP, only 2 runs allowed vs Yanks in the same outing. Has done everything asked of him.

I just dont see where Wunsch fits in this bullpen. If we can get Mark Bellhorn still when Nomar comes back, we really should or some other second basemen.

Your points about Wunsch are well made, but the Bellhorn part loses me.

We may be able to survive without Kelly, but Bellhorn--no thanks I'll pass on that bum. Roberts or Hairston Jr would excite me a lot more if we could get something together for one of them.

As for Wunsch, it would be nice to have him back healthy but the bullpen has surprised me, especially Politte. Have to admit that up to now, I was very wrong about this pen. It's still a long season, but so far you are right it appears we can do OK without him.

MRKARNO
04-24-2004, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
Your points about Wunsch are well made, but the Bellhorn part loses me.

We may be able to survive without Kelly, but Bellhorn--no thanks I'll pass on that bum. Roberts or Hairston Jr would excite me a lot more if we could get something together for one of them.

As for Wunsch, it would be nice to have him back healthy but the bullpen has surprised me, especially Politte. Have to admit that up to now, I was very wrong about this pen. It's still a long season, but so far you are right it appears we can do OK without him.

I only suggested Bellhorn because thats who was rumored earlier to be in the trade. He is great so far at being able to draw a walk and did have that 27 Homer year with the Cubs in 2002, but I dont know how.

I also would like Roberts or Hairston and it couldnt hurt the O's to have some pitching but we'll need a pretty good offer to get one of them because it's likely that the yanks might make a run at one of them, but they only really have Dioner Nivarro to throw out there at them and the O's are set with Javy Lopez.

beckett21
04-24-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I only suggested Bellhorn because thats who was rumored earlier to be in the trade. He is great so far at being able to draw a walk and did have that 27 Homer year with the Cubs in 2002, but I dont know how.

I also would like Roberts or Hairston and it couldnt hurt the O's to have some pitching but we'll need a pretty good offer to get one of them because it's likely that the yanks might make a run at one of them, but they only really have Dioner Nivarro to throw out there at them and the O's are set with Javy Lopez.

I read/heard the Bellhorn rumors as well. Personally I am glad we didn't get Bellhorn. He had that one great year, but ever since he hasn't been able to hit anything at all. I'm far from an expert, but in my humble opinion he sucks. :D:

Agreed that Roberts/Hairston would command a higher price, and Hairston is questionable because he always seems to be hurt. I'd be curious to see what the asking price might be for Roberts for example--I'm sure it would be more than Wunsch.

Your point about Wunsch is good though--I just wonder what we could get for him now.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2004, 10:54 PM
Kelly Wunsch belongs on the major league roster in a New York minute. I am not convinced this bullpen can hold up over the long haul.

Lip

beckett21
04-24-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Kelly Wunsch belongs on the major league roster in a New York minute. I am not convinced this bullpen can hold up over the long haul.

Lip

It would be nice to have the depth and experience, can't argue with you there. The bullpen can never be too deep.

Ultimately it would depend on what we could get in return. If we could solve another problem, like second base for example, then it might be worth trading him. No way we should give him away however.

The bullpen is still questionable, but overall has been quite impressive since the opening day debacle. I still refuse to board the Koch bandwagon, but Politte, Jackson, and Takatsu have been relatively pleasant surprises. It could be much worse than it has been. There is no way to know if it will hold up, but for now there is no reason to assume complete collapse either.

SoxFan76
04-24-2004, 11:18 PM
I can't believe this is even being discussed. OF COURSE Wunsch needs to come back. It doesn't matter what the guys are doing now, Wunsch has proven himself a consistent arm out of the pen. It may require upsetting a young arm by sending him down to AAA, but that's the business.

jabrch
04-25-2004, 12:18 AM
This is a shocking topic to me. Of course we need Kelly. He was one of our best RPs when healthy last year. Adding him back to the pen will be great for us.

SEALgep
04-25-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I can't believe this is even being discussed. OF COURSE Wunsch needs to come back. It doesn't matter what the guys are doing now, Wunsch has proven himself a consistent arm out of the pen. It may require upsetting a young arm by sending him down to AAA, but that's the business. That can be countered with the business saying, out with the old, in with the new. I like Wunsch, but I don't know who you would send down. If he replaced Cotts as the lefty reliever, I guess that would be okay, but I wouldn't prefer it as of now. There's no one really that I want him to replace. Even future consideration don't really apply because Ryan Meaux looks like he can be a lefty specialist on our team, maybe next year.

batmanZoSo
04-25-2004, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I am not convinced this bullpen can hold up over the long haul.


That's true, but it's not that we're in dire need of a left handed matchup guy. We need a closer.

lowesox
04-25-2004, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
That's true, but it's not that we're in dire need of a left handed matchup guy. We need a closer.

I think Marte's proven he can be that guy... which means we'll need a situational lefty.

SEALgep
04-25-2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
I think Marte's proven he can be that guy... which means we'll need a situational lefty. Cotts is that guy now, but if for some reason that needs to change, we could still get by without Wunsch. I don't believe they have any plans to bring this guy up this year, but Ryan Meaux looks to be an ideal lefty specialist for us in the near future, IMO.

MRKARNO
04-25-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Cotts is that guy now, but if for some reason that needs to change, we could still get by without Wunsch. I don't believe they have any plans to bring this guy up this year, but Ryan Meaux looks to be an ideal lefty specialist for us in the near future, IMO.

I would rather have the luxury of being able to move Cotts to starter. We do have those two lefties in Birmingham (Meaux and Muņoz) so that could be an option down the line, though they are both currently starting. Maybe it isn't such a bad idea to keep Kelly and just wait until one of the lower parts of the bullpen blinks and starts to regress. Until one does, it's not fair to demote one of them.

iwannago
04-25-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
Your points about Wunsch are well made, but the Bellhorn part loses me.

We may be able to survive without Kelly, but Bellhorn--no thanks I'll pass on that bum. Roberts or Hairston Jr would excite me a lot more if we could get something together for one of them.

As for Wunsch, it would be nice to have him back healthy but the bullpen has surprised me, especially Politte. Have to admit that up to now, I was very wrong about this pen. It's still a long season, but so far you are right it appears we can do OK without him.


$$$ prevent obtaining Roberts or Hairston Jr

kermittheefrog
04-25-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO

Shingo-Bad first outing, lots of Ks. Will work pretty well as a situational righty: .111 OPS vs Rightys, 1.500 OPS vs Lefties

There is no such thing as a situational righty, this man does not belong in our pen.