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View Full Version : Congrats Frank, moving past Hank Aaron


Bisco Stu
04-24-2004, 05:55 PM
into 21st place on the base on balls career list with 1,403.

Kinda surprised his total isn't higher, considering Frank has one of the top 10 "eyes" in MLB history, along with Bonds, Williams, Cobb, et al.

MRKARNO
04-24-2004, 06:12 PM
When it's all said and done he will probably be in the top 10 in career walks. He could be there in two years if he keeps up his patient ways, which he should.

voodoochile
04-24-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
When it's all said and done he will probably be in the top 10 in career walks. He could be there in two years if he keeps up his patient ways, which he should.

He missed a whole season and struggled the following one, so his total would be closer to 1550 if he had stayed healthy.

MRKARNO
04-24-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
He missed a whole season and struggled the following one, so his total would be closer to 1550 if he had stayed healthy.

If Ken Griffey Jr. had stayed healthy, he might be up there tailing Bonds right now and would have almost certainly passed Aaron at some point in his career. He has time to turn it around and still get 756, but it's looking increasingly unlikely.

voodoochile
04-24-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
If Ken Griffey Jr. had stayed healthy, he might be up there tailing Bonds right now and would have almost certainly passed Aaron at some point in his career. He has time to turn it around and still get 756, but it's looking increasingly unlikely.

You are correct. I was merely pointing out why his numbers appeared low in relation to where we might expect them to be.

MRKARNO
04-24-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You are correct. I was merely pointing out why his numbers appeared low in relation to where we might expect them to be.

OK I can accept that. Generally Frank Thomas is considered by many to be a dissapointment because many people thought that he could be what Barry Bonds is now. That's kind of a scary thought

RKMeibalane
04-24-2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
OK I can accept that. Generally Frank Thomas is considered by many to be a dissapointment because many people thought that he could be what Barry Bonds is now. That's kind of a scary thought

If anything, I think the entire baseball nation (players, managers, fans, etc.) is about to learn that in reality, Frank Thomas is one of the few true stars left in the game of baseball, and it is actually someone like Bonds whom we should be dissapointed in.

Once Bonds and every other cheater is found guilty of steroid use, even the most anti-Frank people will be forced to admit that the Big Hurt plays the game the right way, and for that alone, he should be appreciated.

Railsplitter
04-24-2004, 09:01 PM
I know Babe Ruth had the record for career walks for quite some time ( I think Rocky Henderson might have broken it recently, but I'm not sure) either way, i think the are guys who get walked on the thoery better one base on four pitches than four bases on one pitch.

BeerHandle
04-25-2004, 12:33 AM
If Thomas was on Steroids like Bonds he probably would have been ready to break the record. Bonds, Mark M. and Sosa are all a joke to baseball. They may have brought fans back, but they won't have and testicles in ten years.'

Dadawg_77
04-25-2004, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
OK I can accept that. Generally Frank Thomas is considered by many to be a dissapointment because many people thought that he could be what Barry Bonds is now. That's kind of a scary thought

Huh? Bonds is at a level where there are only five players may have ever reached. You can not say some one is a disappointment because they are not at Bond's level.

RKMeibalane
04-25-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Huh? Bonds is at a level where there are only five players may have ever reached. You can not say some one is a disappointment because they are not at Bond's level.

I agree. Bonds is in a class by himself. There's no reason anyone should look down on Frank. His numbers are better than 95% of the other players in the MLB.

DrummerGeorgefan
04-25-2004, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Bisco Stu

Kinda surprised his total isn't higher, considering Frank has one of the top 10 "eyes" in MLB history, along with Bonds, Williams, Cobb, et al.

I'd be interested to see how many of Frank's walks are quality walks, meaning that they were not intentional. I am sure Bonds' number is inflated a bit because of the IBB. If there is a list, I am sure Frank has to be in the top because he does have a great eye for the ball

sas1974
04-25-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by DrummerGeorgefan
I'd be interested to see how many of Frank's walks are quality walks, meaning that they were not intentional. I am sure Bonds' number is inflated a bit because of the IBB. If there is a list, I am sure Frank has to be in the top because he does have a great eye for the ball

I would definitely agree that Bond's totals are inflated because of IBB. I also can't imagine any pitchers in the day of Williams, Cobb, Ruth, intentionally walking them w/ the bases empty or loaded.

RKMeibalane
04-25-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
I would definitely agree that Bond's totals are inflated because of IBB. I also can't imagine any pitchers in the day of Williams, Cobb, Ruth, intentionally walking them w/ the bases empty or loaded.

You raise an interesting point. Why is it that pitchers today are so willing to just walk a batter, rather than to try to get him out? I realize that there are certain situations in which an intentional walk makes sense, but I cannot understand why so many pitchers and managers are willing to just put someone on base, because the chance that a hitter might do some damage. IMHO, giving into a hitter gives him a tremendous pyschological advantage. If Barry Bonds, for example, thinks that a pitcher is afraid of him, that's going to make his at-bats a lot easier.

I think a pither has much more to gain by just going after a hitter. If he hits a home run, then so be it. That's part of the game. After all, you don't see any hitters allowing pitchers to automatically strike them out (though some players give that impression).

Deadguy
04-25-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by DrummerGeorgefan
I'd be interested to see how many of Frank's walks are quality walks, meaning that they were not intentional. I am sure Bonds' number is inflated a bit because of the IBB. If there is a list, I am sure Frank has to be in the top because he does have a great eye for the ball

I remember reading an anecdote in which his old coach at Auburn said that while taking BP, Thomas would sometimes yell out the speed of the pitch, and it would almost always match the radar gun.

I've also heard stories in which other players say that Thomas can sit in the dugout, and can tell what kind of pitch the pitcher is throwing.

I wonder how Thomas' eyesight comapares to Ted Williams' eyesight when he was in his prime. When Ted was given his physical while heading into World War II, his vision tested out at better than 20/20.

Deadguy
04-25-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
I would definitely agree that Bond's totals are inflated because of IBB. I also can't imagine any pitchers in the day of Williams, Cobb, Ruth, intentionally walking them w/ the bases empty or loaded.

I'm guessing that Ruth was just as feared. They didn't keep track of IBBs in the 1920s, but supposedly, in 1923, Ruth was intentionally walked 70+ times, much like Barry was in 2002

sas1974
04-25-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
I'm guessing that Ruth was just as feared. They didn't keep track of IBBs in the 1920s, but supposedly, in 1923, Ruth was intentionally walked 70+ times, much like Barry was in 2002

Ahh...well I guess I stand corrected. I didn't throw any stats behind my "analysis," i was just guessing that the pride factor among pitchers may have gotten in the way of more IBB. But I suppose the Babe was head and shoulders above the next guy, similar to Bonds.

DrummerGeorgefan
04-25-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy

I wonder how Thomas' eyesight comapares to Ted Williams' eyesight when he was in his prime. When Ted was given his physical while heading into World War II, his vision tested out at better than 20/20.

Williams was tested at 20/10 I believe. The only other player I know off hand was Will Clark (I was a huge fan back in the day) and a baseball card listed his at 20/15.

Maybe someone in the media could get Frank to fess up

batmanZoSo
04-25-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You are correct. I was merely pointing out why his numbers appeared low in relation to where we might expect them to be.

It's amazing that Frank is up there passing Aaron now, just starting his 13th year of actually playing. Aaron played for like 22 years and he's flat out one of the best players of all time. That's a huge accomplishment, yet it happened without anyone noticing. Shows you how much the walk is underappreciated in baseball, and how overappreciated the home run is.

Couting stats aren't the best judge of a hitter. If you look at on-base percentage, Frank is plenty higher than anyone who ever laced up a pair of spikes, with the exception of 9 players.

1. Ted Williams+ .4817 L
2. Babe Ruth+ .4739 L
3. John McGraw+ .4657 L
4. Billy Hamilton+ .4552 L
5. Lou Gehrig+ .4474 L
6. Bill Joyce .4349 L
7. Rogers Hornsby+ .4337 R
8. Barry Bonds (38) .4332 L
9. Ty Cobb+ .4330 L
10. Frank Thomas (35) .4284 R

And 8 of them are left handed. If you account for their supreme advantage as left handed hitters, Frank's accomplishments are even more astounding. The only active player better is Bonds, and there was a time when Frank was clearly a better hitter than him. Bonds was always great, but nobody in the world thought he would become this good starting at 35.

voodoochile
04-25-2004, 01:59 PM
IIRC, Ruth is the ONLY player ever given an intentional pass with the bases loaded.

RKMeibalane
04-25-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
IIRC, Ruth is the ONLY player ever given an intentional pass with the bases loaded.

Actually, Buck Showalter gave Bonds an intentional pass with the bases loaded back in 1998.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-25-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
IIRC, Ruth is the ONLY player ever given an intentional pass with the bases loaded.

Wow. I didn't realize Jerry ever managed a team! :smile:

:reinsy
"Anyone who thinks we were going to get Ruth out is CRAZY!"