PDA

View Full Version : Corpseball: the more things change...


mdep524
04-24-2004, 05:17 PM
...the more they stay the same.

I posted about this before but I think it deserves its own thread, especially after these last two horrendous performances.

JM was (rightly) run out of town after last season for being a terrible, corpse-like mananger. When Ozzie came in, he immediately preached for and promised the same smallball, manufactoring runs, not waiting for the 3-run homer, not playing station-to-station offense, etc. approach that Manuel did when he was first hired with his "National League mentality." And Ozzie really sounded like he meant it.

The problem is, no matter how much you talk it up, you just can't do these things if your players are not competent. As much as Ozzie WANTS to run, there is just no speed on this team outside of Harris. As much as Ozzie WANTS to bunt, there is absolutely NO bunting ability among any of these players. As much as Ozzie WANTS to move runners over, his players just don't have enough discipline at the plate.

Worst of all, there is NOBODY on this team that can work a walk, outside of Big Frank. This is painfully obvious in Uribe and especially Willie Harris, whose idea of "working" an at bat is to take two batting practice fastballs right down the middle on a 2-0 count and then strike out on a nasty 2-2 slider.

Without any flexibilty in the line up, it is clear that if the Sox want to win this year, they have to make changes to this roster PERIOD. One of Carlos Lee (who is in a terrible slump and is popping up every first pitch he sees) or Konerko has to go. Possibly Rowand too- he isn't bad, he just doesn't do anything well-he can't walk, he can't bunt, and he doesn't hit for a lot of average or power. Too much right-handed, slow footed, all or nothing, undisciplined glut. Maybe they can call up Jeremy Reed to invigorate the top of the line up. Gload could play first. Maybe Brian Roberts can be had from Baltimore for the right package to lead off. Vidro maybe?

The Sox are simply no match for good pitching and instead of "tipping their cap" every time they are slumping or run into a good pitcher, it is time to fight back.

Jurr
04-24-2004, 05:26 PM
Why don't you cry me a river????
Damn, the Sox are right in the mix in this division, and the only thing you want to do is win 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 each series. The only series they have lost all year is the Yankees series. If you keep winning series, which the Sox will most likely do with Buehrle going to the bump tomorrow, you are in good shape. Every offense has off days. Maggs sat down today, Jose wasn't playing, Rowand wasn't either, and they lost a game. Guys got rest. Dan Wright was pitching. It's totally cool. They win tomorrow, and we're okay. I am SICK AND TIRED of seeing fairweather people getting down on the team because they lost one game! The thing is that even with all of the cards stacked against them, the Sox still fought and had a chance at doing something in the eighth. So quit with this bullsh*t.


:threadsucks

soxnut
04-24-2004, 05:32 PM
Well, I'm getting tired of the "popping up/lazy fly-out" business. It was around the same time last year when people were wanting to get rid of Konerko or Lee, they both got better as the year went on.

When they have had enough runners on base they have moved runners over more than they did undre Manuel, but it's still not done consistenty, where it wasn't at all with Manuel at the helm.

I'd be in favor of trading Konerko or Lee in order to get a lefty who hits for average and not power, who has speed. At the top of my head I can't think of a guy like that, but that's what they need.

MRKARNO
04-24-2004, 05:32 PM
I am optimistic about this team's chances this year, but we had a sorry pitcher on the hill with the sorriest possible lineup put out by Ozzie who possibly gave the sorriest amount of effort I've seen thus far in 2004. There's no other way to put it. It's ok if they lose against a good team or a bad team and they give it a good effort. I didnt see that effort today.

soxnut
04-24-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Jurr
Why don't you cry me a river????
Damn, the Sox are right in the mix in this division, and the only thing you want to do is win 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 each series. The only series they have lost all year is the Yankees series. If you keep winning series, which the Sox will most likely do with Buehrle going to the bump tomorrow, you are in good shape. Every offense has off days. Maggs sat down today, Jose wasn't playing, Rowand wasn't either, and they lost a game. Guys got rest. Dan Wright was pitching. It's totally cool. They win tomorrow, and we're okay. I am SICK AND TIRED of seeing fairweather people getting down on the team because they lost one game! The thing is that even with all of the cards stacked against them, the Sox still fought and had a chance at doing something in the eighth. So quit with this bullsh*t.


:threadsucks

I'm not down on them, but I do think there is room for improvement in the areas of not hitting so many pop-ups.

It was more of a "B" lineup that was out there, so I can't get too down on them, but I think when we see something like today, it can remind people of how they are last year.

But, as I pointed out, I think they have move runners along more than Manuel ever did. So I see that as a good sign. And I'm pretty confident they will continue to keep winning series. I would still like to see another dimension to their offense by adding someone who hits more for average and doesn't think home run.

Nick@Nite
04-24-2004, 05:38 PM
Jerry Manuel = Station to station baseball

Ozzie Guillen = Hit & run

Jerry Manuel = 3 run homer

Ozzie Guillen = sacrifice bunt

Jerry Manuel = Station to station baseball

Ozzie Guillen = Run & hit

Jerry Manuel = 3 run homer

Ozzie Guillen = straight steal

Jerry Manuel = station to station baseball

Ozzie Guillen = move the runners along

Jerry Manuel = move the runners along if you can... 3 run homer?

Ozzie Guillen = manufacture runs

Jerry Manuel = 3 run homer

----------------------

Corpse-ball winner = Jerry Manuel

----------------------

NOTE: you can't steal 1st... but you can't hit 3 run bombs with the bases empty either.

soxnut
04-24-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I am optimistic about this team's chances this year, but we had a sorry pitcher on the hill with the sorriest possible lineup put out by Ozzie who possibly game the sorriest amount of effort I've seen thus far in 2004. There's no other way to put it. It's ok if they lose against a good team or a bad team and they give it a good effort. I didnt see that effort today.

Looking at it from that point of view it does remind me of a Manuel lineup/effort today.

soxnut
04-24-2004, 05:43 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nick@Nite
[B]Jerry Manuel = Station to station baseball

Ozzie Guillen = Hit & run

Jerry Manuel = 3 run homer

Ozzie Guillen = sacrifice bunt

Jerry Manuel = Station to station baseball

Ozzie Guillen = Run & hit

Jerry Manuel = 3 run homer

Ozzie Guillen = straight steal

Jerry Manuel = station to station baseball

Ozzie Guillen = move the runners along

Jerry Manuel = move the runners along if you can... 3 run homer?

Ozzie Guillen = manufacture runs

Jerry Manuel = 3 run homer

----------------------

Corpse-ball winner = Jerry Manuel
----------------------
]/QUOTE]


The effort didn't look very good today, but you're right. And one game corpe-ball does not make.

HomeFish
04-24-2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by soxnut

The effort didn't look very good today, but you're right. And one game corpe-ball does not make.

The White Sox have been playing corposeball since the first game of the Yankee series. It's a miracle that Ozzie has been able to get wins in two of those.

soxnut
04-24-2004, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
The White Sox have been playing corposeball since the first game of the Yankee series. It's a miracle that Ozzie has been able to get wins in two of those.


But that's what good teams do when they're not hitting well. Maybe some of the pitching has to do with getting wins also??.

mdep524
04-24-2004, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Jurr
Why don't you cry me a river????
Damn, the Sox are right in the mix in this division, and the only thing you want to do is win 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 each series. The only series they have lost all year is the Yankees series. If you keep winning series, which the Sox will most likely do with Buehrle going to the bump tomorrow, you are in good shape. Every offense has off days. Maggs sat down today, Jose wasn't playing, Rowand wasn't either, and they lost a game. Guys got rest. Dan Wright was pitching. It's totally cool. They win tomorrow, and we're okay. I am SICK AND TIRED of seeing fairweather people getting down on the team because they lost one game! The thing is that even with all of the cards stacked against them, the Sox still fought and had a chance at doing something in the eighth. So quit with this bullsh*t.

First of all, I am most cetainly NOT a fair weather fan. In fact, I defend this team a lot more than I criticize it. I am confident that the Sox will win behind Buehrle tomorrow, I'm not saying that the sky is falling, and I am certainly not getting down on them because of one game. I am saying that this is essentially the same lineup that has failed the Sox in key situations for the last three years (the '00 playoffs vs. Seattle, April '03, Sept. '03 at Minnesota, etc.), yet always seems to skirt any blame and has definite room for improvement. Yes, every team has off days, but over the past few seasons no team has as many random off days as these guys. KW needs to consider breaking up the block of slow footed, impatient righthanded hitters to add balance to this line up.

Also, soxnut, "you're doggom' right" it's the pitching that's getting us wins! They're doing a great job- the staff and the 'pen.

Win1ForMe
04-24-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
...the more they stay the same.

I posted about this before but I think it deserves its own thread, especially after these last two horrendous performances.

JM was (rightly) run out of town after last season for being a terrible, corpse-like mananger. When Ozzie came in, he immediately preached for and promised the same smallball, manufactoring runs, not waiting for the 3-run homer, not playing station-to-station offense, etc. approach that Manuel did when he was first hired with his "National League mentality." And Ozzie really sounded like he meant it.

The problem is, no matter how much you talk it up, you just can't do these things if your players are not competent. As much as Ozzie WANTS to run, there is just no speed on this team outside of Harris. As much as Ozzie WANTS to bunt, there is absolutely NO bunting ability among any of these players. As much as Ozzie WANTS to move runners over, his players just don't have enough discipline at the plate.

Worst of all, there is NOBODY on this team that can work a walk, outside of Big Frank. This is painfully obvious in Uribe and especially Willie Harris, whose idea of "working" an at bat is to take two batting practice fastballs right down the middle on a 2-0 count and then strike out on a nasty 2-2 slider.

Without any flexibilty in the line up, it is clear that if the Sox want to win this year, they have to make changes to this roster PERIOD. One of Carlos Lee (who is in a terrible slump and is popping up every first pitch he sees) or Konerko has to go. Possibly Rowand too- he isn't bad, he just doesn't do anything well-he can't walk, he can't bunt, and he doesn't hit for a lot of average or power. Too much right-handed, slow footed, all or nothing, undisciplined glut. Maybe they can call up Jeremy Reed to invigorate the top of the line up. Gload could play first. Maybe Brian Roberts can be had from Baltimore for the right package to lead off. Vidro maybe?

The Sox are simply no match for good pitching and instead of "tipping their cap" every time they are slumping or run into a good pitcher, it is time to fight back.

This is a damn fine post. Can't disagree with anything you said. We don't have the players to play small ball. Kenny failed to make any of those "grinder" acquisitions he promised. The end result is the same all-or-nothing offense we've had the last few years.

I like Harris' speed but he's too crappy of a hitter to have a chance to use it.

And Joe Crede, from April to July, is the deader than dead-- he personifies corpseball.

OEO Magglio
04-24-2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Jurr
Why don't you cry me a river????
Damn, the Sox are right in the mix in this division, and the only thing you want to do is win 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 each series. The only series they have lost all year is the Yankees series. If you keep winning series, which the Sox will most likely do with Buehrle going to the bump tomorrow, you are in good shape. Every offense has off days. Maggs sat down today, Jose wasn't playing, Rowand wasn't either, and they lost a game. Guys got rest. Dan Wright was pitching. It's totally cool. They win tomorrow, and we're okay. I am SICK AND TIRED of seeing fairweather people getting down on the team because they lost one game! The thing is that even with all of the cards stacked against them, the Sox still fought and had a chance at doing something in the eighth. So quit with this bullsh*t.


:threadsucks
I agree, everytime the sox don't score atleast 5 runs are we going to get a corpseball thread, come on now, and has anyone noticed that the sox have started scoring a lot less runs since Jose has went on the dl, people love bashing him, but he's still a very good player.

sas1974
04-24-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
And Joe Crede, from April to July, is the deader than dead-- he personifies corpseball.

You're not referring to the same Joe Crede that has two game-winning hits for us this year already are you?

RKMeibalane
04-24-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
You're not referring to the same Joe Crede that has two game-winning hits for us this year already are you?

I think people are just dissapointed that Crede has gotten off to another slow start. He started slowly in 2003, and was one the players commonly singled out when the club's offensive problems were the topic of disscussion on this board.

However, it looks like he may be starting to turn things around. He hit a home run on Thursday, and he won the game last night. Maybe those two things will boost his confidence. The Sox need him to be a more consistent run producer, because he's the one who needs to hold up the back end of the lineup.

JRIG
04-24-2004, 09:12 PM
Could part of the problem be our leadoff hitter, Mr. Harris, has the second worst OBP in the American League? Nah......

The sooner he's replaced permanently, the sooner we look better on a game-to-game basis.

RKMeibalane
04-24-2004, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Could part of the problem be our leadoff hitter, Mr. Harris, has the second worst OBP in the American League? Nah......

The sooner he's replaced permanently, the sooner we look better on a game-to-game basis.

Harris is a large part of the problem. It's for this reason that I think the Sox should use the following lineup once Valentin returns:

2B- Uribe
SS- Valentin
RF- Ordonez
1B- Thomas
LF- Lee
DH- Konerko
3B- Crede
CF- Rowand
C- Olivo

JRIG
04-24-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Harris is a large part of the problem. It's for this reason that I think the Sox should use the following lineup once Valentin returns:

2B- Uribe
SS- Valentin
RF- Ordonez
1B- Thomas
LF- Lee
DH- Konerko
3B- Crede
CF- Rowand
C- Olivo

Agreed. And I hope the last few games will quiet down the "we can live without Valentin" crowd. He's the only left-handed power stick in the lineup, hits well in front of Frank, and gives us underrated defense. We'll miss him when he's gone. Not Foulke-like missing, but still missing.

Win1ForMe
04-24-2004, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
You're not referring to the same Joe Crede that has two game-winning hits for us this year already are you?

Maybe if he hit at least .250 (which is only 70 points higher than what he's currently hitting), he wouldn't have to come up with those two game-winning hits because the games would be over earlier. I know I'm asking for the world here. I mean, having our "star" 3rd baseman hitting .183 and continually swinging for the fences each at-bat is perfectly acceptable...

batmanZoSo
04-24-2004, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
Well, I'm getting tired of the "popping up/lazy fly-out" business. It was around the same time last year when people were wanting to get rid of Konerko or Lee, they both got better as the year went on.

When they have had enough runners on base they have moved runners over more than they did undre Manuel, but it's still not done consistenty, where it wasn't at all with Manuel at the helm.

I'd be in favor of trading Konerko or Lee in order to get a lefty who hits for average and not power, who has speed. At the top of my head I can't think of a guy like that, but that's what they need.

I was at the game today, and it was a complete waste of money. That was an abysmal showing of offense against of all people, Cy Waechter. The killer was not getting anything in the eighth with the bases loaded. Carlos Lee came up and popped up the first pitch and that was pretty much the end of the game. It would've only been 2-1 had Wright not failed to cover first and then fall down like a jackass. Who knows, maybe the hitters wouldn't have been swinging so hard being down a run and we would've played for the easy tie in one of those innings where we threatened but couldn't get the big hit. You might say we lost two games because of bad defense by starting pitchers. In fact, that's what really happened.

I'm in favor of trading both Konerko and Lee, and have been for two years. Man what we could do with that 14 million. Not to mention getting rid of Valentin and Koch (combined 12 million). That's 26 million dollars of wasted money...at least on this team. Those three would be valuable to a team that lacks power and can afford to lose a little in defense to improve that facet. We need speed, plate discipline and defense...and a better bullpen.

That's the cheapest way to build a great team--stock up on great defense and speed, and field a great bullpen. That's exactly what we should be doing as a "small market team." A few Juan Pierre's, a few Ricardo Rincon's to go along with Frank and Maggs and we're set.

The best thing for this team is to dump the four listed above, and use that 25 million or so to:

-Re-sign Maggs
-Give raises and extensions where needed (Loaiza, Buehrle etc)
-Find a closer
-Get a great reliever like Guillermo Mota from LA, someone right handed to pair up with Damaso and set up for the new closer in question
-Get a second baseman (Jose Vidro )
-Put Reed in left, Gload at DH/1st base with Thomas...if Gload turns out crappy, get Daubach back and play him every day.

Lip Man 1
04-25-2004, 12:14 AM
Reasons for this bad week:

Injuries to Jose and Frank disrupted the lineup.....

Miserable weather.....

Willie Harris is an absolute waste and basically an automatic out...

Key players, Lee & Crede are slumping.....]

I wouldn't panic yet but file these things away in case this continues to happen especially the 3rd point.

Lip

RKMeibalane
04-25-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I wouldn't panic yet but file these things away in case this continues to happen especially the 3rd point.

Lip

I hate to say it, but the Sox need to learn to win in cold weather. If they can't get it done now, what are they going to do in October if they make the playoffs. Good teams find ways to win in spite of problems like this. If the Sox want to accomplish anything this season, they need to find ways to beat the odds, not hide behind them.

mdep524
04-25-2004, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
I agree, everytime the sox don't score atleast 5 runs are we going to get a corpseball thread, come on now, and has anyone noticed that the sox have started scoring a lot less runs since Jose has went on the dl, people love bashing him, but he's still a very good player.

This isn't a thread about one particular game. Read my original post, it's an overall trend that's been observed for the past 3 seasons.

pudge
04-25-2004, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I was at the game today, and it was a complete waste of money.

I think that's the main point right there - when fans get ripped off, they aren't happy...

Today was simply pathetic, and it did remind us of the Manuel days... but hey if they can win the series tomorrow I'm willing to forget today...

This team has always had an OBP problem, and that won't change. But pitching is the key, if our pitching keeps up, we'll be fine...

Oh, batman, BTW, it was Konerko's fault for rushing that throw to first... tough to see without the benefit of instant reply, but that was not Wright's fault...

batmanZoSo
04-25-2004, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by pudge
I think that's the main point right there - when fans get ripped off, they aren't happy...

Today was simply pathetic, and it did remind us of the Manuel days... but hey if they can win the series tomorrow I'm willing to forget today...

This team has always had an OBP problem, and that won't change. But pitching is the key, if our pitching keeps up, we'll be fine...

Oh, batman, BTW, it was Konerko's fault for rushing that throw to first... tough to see without the benefit of instant reply, but that was not Wright's fault...

No, it was all Danny's fault. At first I watched the chopper go down to first and was relieved that the inning would be over. But then I looked to see if Danny was going to "right where he should be" and he was just standing there. It took him a while to start running to first, and Konerko knew this so he panicked and tried to salvage the play and gave him a bad feed. But it was a moot point because Wright was just entering the dirt cutout in the first base area when the throw got to him.

jabrch
04-25-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Reasons for this bad week:

Injuries to Jose and Frank disrupted the lineup.....

Miserable weather.....

Willie Harris is an absolute waste and basically an automatic out...

Key players, Lee & Crede are slumping.....]

I wouldn't panic yet but file these things away in case this continues to happen especially the 3rd point.

Lip

using the weather is a crappy excuse. Geez, we lost to Tampa today - how can we blame it on the weather. I do agree with the rest of your points though Lip, but we have no other options. Until Manos gets back, we surely have no choice but to play Harris. Once Jose is healthy, then Ozzie has a decision to be made.

OEO Magglio
04-25-2004, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
No, it was all Danny's fault. At first I watched the chopper go down to first and was relieved that the inning would be over. But then I looked to see if Danny was going to "right where he should be" and he was just standing there. It took him a while to start running to first, and Konerko knew this so he panicked and tried to salvage the play and gave him a bad feed. But it was a moot point because Wright was just entering the dirt cutout in the first base area when the throw got to him.
It wasn't danny's fault, I'm not sure if he broke late or not, but he was at the bag before the runner, and if Konerko makes a descent throw the inning was over.

mdep524
04-25-2004, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I'm in favor of trading both Konerko and Lee, and have been for two years. Man what we could do with that 14 million. Not to mention getting rid of Valentin and Koch (combined 12 million). That's 26 million dollars of wasted money...at least on this team. Those three would be valuable to a team that lacks power and can afford to lose a little in defense to improve that facet. We need speed, plate discipline and defense...and a better bullpen.

That's the cheapest way to build a great team--stock up on great defense and speed, and field a great bullpen. That's exactly what we should be doing as a "small market team." A few Juan Pierre's, a few Ricardo Rincon's to go along with Frank and Maggs and we're set.

The best thing for this team is to dump the four listed above, and use that 25 million or so to:

-Re-sign Maggs
-Give raises and extensions where needed (Loaiza, Buehrle etc)
-Find a closer
-Get a great reliever like Guillermo Mota from LA, someone right handed to pair up with Damaso and set up for the new closer in question
-Get a second baseman (Jose Vidro )
-Put Reed in left, Gload at DH/1st base with Thomas...if Gload turns out crappy, get Daubach back and play him every day.

Wow batman, I was thinking along the exact same lines.

Purely hypothetical, but what if...

We could trade PK, Koch and Jon Rauch (plus most of Koch's salary) to the Dodgers for Perez and Mota. Then maybe flip some combination of Rowand, Wright and maybe Pacheco to the pitching-starved Orioles for Roberts, leaving us with a line up of:

1. Roberts 2B
2. Reed CF
3. Ordonez RF
4. Thomas DH
5. Lee LF
6. Valentin SS
7. Gload 1B
8. Crede 3B (would be flipped with Gload once he starts hitting)
9. Olivo C

Pitching staff:
Buehrle
Loiaza
Garland
Schoeneweis
Perez

Bullpen:
Cotts
Jackson
Takatsu
Politte
Marte
Mota
Adkins

That would give us 4 lefties in the line up and by far the best staff and 'pen in the Central. I'd also definetly be in favor of trading Lee if we could get a goo deal for him. Or instead of Roberts, maybe we could up the offer and get Vidro from the Expos, or sign him in the off season. Just wishful thinking though. And once again, this is NOT based on only today's performance, this is an idea based on the general make up of the team.

Lip Man 1
04-25-2004, 01:33 AM
Jab:

Please re-read my post...I said for the week .

The Sox have had three games this week where they scored three runs or less. The weather was miserable in all of those games...go figure .

Lip

delben91
04-25-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Reasons for this bad week:

Injuries to Jose and Frank disrupted the lineup.....

Miserable weather.....

Willie Harris is an absolute waste and basically an automatic out...

Key players, Lee & Crede are slumping.....]

I wouldn't panic yet but file these things away in case this continues to happen especially the 3rd point.

Lip

Lip,

I don't say it often, but I whole-heartedly agree with you. Quality post there.

sas1974
04-25-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Maybe if he hit at least .250 (which is only 70 points higher than what he's currently hitting), he wouldn't have to come up with those two game-winning hits because the games would be over earlier. I know I'm asking for the world here. I mean, having our "star" 3rd baseman hitting .183 and continually swinging for the fences each at-bat is perfectly acceptable...

I am as disappointed as anyone about ANOTHER slow start for Joe, but he's going to figure it out. He's thrown some serious leather and has come through a couple of times in the clutch. Things are just magnified bc the production of all has been down the last couple of games. No need to panic yet though.

batmanZoSo
04-25-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
Wow batman, I was thinking along the exact same lines.

Purely hypothetical, but what if...

We could trade PK, Koch and Jon Rauch (plus most of Koch's salary) to the Dodgers for Perez and Mota. Then maybe flip some combination of Rowand, Wright and maybe Pacheco to the pitching-starved Orioles for Roberts, leaving us with a line up of:

1. Roberts 2B
2. Reed CF
3. Ordonez RF
4. Thomas DH
5. Lee LF
6. Valentin SS
7. Gload 1B
8. Crede 3B (would be flipped with Gload once he starts hitting)
9. Olivo C

Pitching staff:
Buehrle
Loiaza
Garland
Schoeneweis
Perez

Bullpen:
Cotts
Jackson
Takatsu
Politte
Marte
Mota
Adkins

That would give us 4 lefties in the line up and by far the best staff and 'pen in the Central. I'd also definetly be in favor of trading Lee if we could get a goo deal for him. Or instead of Roberts, maybe we could up the offer and get Vidro from the Expos, or sign him in the off season. Just wishful thinking though. And once again, this is NOT based on only today's performance, this is an idea based on the general make up of the team.

Brian Roberts isn't too bad. Last year .270 5 43 23 steals. Piss poor on base of .337 so I don't know about him leading off.
But I've noticed his name popping up multiple times here and it makes me wonder, why the Orioles would trade him to us when he's better than Jerry Hairston? Wouldn't they wanna keep Roberts?

A. Cavatica
04-25-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Piss poor on base of .337 so I don't know about him leading off.

That's around league average, i.e. too low for a leadoff man but hardly "piss poor". It's about what I expect from Rowand this year, more than I expect from Harris or Uribe.