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habibharu
04-23-2004, 12:31 PM
over the last few day theyve had on rowand,gload,scho,elo twice, not to mention 3 or 4 yanks. the wise guys have also had great sox pre with jesee rogers live from the cell giving the lineups. way more than 1000 has been doing the past week

Randar68
04-23-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
over the last few day theyve had on rowand,gload,scho,elo twice, not to mention 3 or 4 yanks. the wise guys have also had great sox pre with jesee rogers live from the cell giving the lineups. way more than 1000 has been doing the past week

Yep. I think JR will definitely be moving the Sox to The Score when his current sweet deal is over. The shift in the Score's attitude on the Sox was almost instantaneous. I even heard a Frank Thomas plug for one of the shows last night.

ESPN has accomplished their goal, but JR still likely won't walk away from the money ESPN owes the Sox.

wdelaney72
04-23-2004, 12:38 PM
I think it's safe to conclude JR is considering the Score for the next radio broadcast deal.

ESPN really dropped the ball on this one. It would be different if that nameless idiot who writes for the SunTimes was a radio talent, but he sucks. What a waste.

poorme
04-23-2004, 12:42 PM
Imagine..Mike North replacing Ed Farmer....

bobj4400
04-23-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
I think it's safe to conclude JR is considering the Score for the next radio broadcast deal.

ESPN really dropped the ball on this one. It would be different if that nameless idiot who writes for the SunTimes was a radio talent, but he sucks. What a waste.

Like I was saying in another thread, this JR/JM war is really becoming an intriguing story. If ESPN loses the White Sox b/c of the Moron's show it would be a disaster for the station. Although Moronotti is in a strong position (three different media outlets to spread his message of White Sox hate) I would not bet against Reinsdorf in this battle. For all of JR's faults as an owner of a sports franchise, he is a shrewd businessman and not a self-made multi-millionaire for no reason...

bobj4400
04-23-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Imagine..Mike North replacing Ed Farmer....

Dont even joke about that...

DMarte708
04-23-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Imagine..Mike North replacing Ed Farmer....

Here's the real question: if Sox move to Score after next season will Dave Wills still have a job? Everyone knows how vocal his hatred is towards the Cubs. Someone from the high offices of the Tribune wil probably prevent him from hosting post games shows.

soxnut
04-23-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by DMarte708
Here's the real question: if Sox move to Score after next season will Dave Wills still have a job? Everyone knows how vocal his hatred is towards the Cubs. Someone from the high offices of the Tribune wil probably prevent him from hosting post games shows.


What is the relationship betweem the Tribune and the Score? :?:

Hey with the attitude of Wills, there's no way the Sox don't hire him for some kind of broadcast job.

ChiSox14305635
04-23-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by DMarte708
Here's the real question: if Sox move to Score after next season will Dave Wills still have a job? Everyone knows how vocal his hatred is towards the Cubs. Someone from the high offices of the Tribune wil probably prevent him from hosting post games shows.


The Tribune has no affiliation with the Score. If the Cubs have super fanatic Mike Murphy always hyping the Cubs, they shouldn't have any problem with Wills doing the same for the Sox.

Fridaythe13thJason
04-23-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
The Tribune has no affiliation with the Score. If the Cubs have super fanatic Mike Murphy always hyping the Cubs, they shouldn't have any problem with Wills doing the same for the Sox.

Is Dave Wills a Sox employee? I think not. I think he is an ESPN1000 employee. I would be interested to see if he followed the Sox or not.

MarqSox
04-23-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by UICJason
Is Dave Wills a Sox employee? I think not. I think he is an ESPN1000 employee. I would be interested to see if he followed the Sox or not.
I'm sure he'd prefer to go where the Sox go, but he may have a contract with ESPN that locks him in ...

Tekijawa
04-23-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Imagine..Mike North replacing Ed Farmer....

Any one know what Bea and Lickrish would say about that?

MarqSox
04-23-2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yep. I think JR will definitely be moving the Sox to The Score when his current sweet deal is over. The shift in the Score's attitude on the Sox was almost instantaneous.
Yep. The Score understood what Moron's hiring meant to the White Sox, and they recognized an opportunity to sneak in and grab that contract (perhaps below market value, if JR's pissed enough).

Let's not overlook the fact that the Bulls come with the Sox wherever they go. I know the Bulls of 2004 aren't the Bulls of 1998, but that name still carries a lot of cache -- easily the most prestigious team in sports to miss the playoffs five years in a row. I gotta think the Score is salivating over the Sox/Bulls contract, and they're gonna do whatever they can to get into Jerry's good graces in the coming months, which can only be a good thing for us.

soxnut
04-23-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Any one know what Bea and Lickrish would say about that?


RUUFF! RUUFF!

soxnut
04-23-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Yep. The Score understood what Moron's hiring meant to the White Sox, and they recognized an opportunity to sneak in and grab that contract (perhaps below market value, if JR's pissed enough).

Let's not overlook the fact that the Bulls come with the Sox wherever they go. I know the Bulls of 2004 aren't the Bulls of 1998, but that name still carries a lot of cache -- easily the most prestigious team in sports to miss the playoffs five years in a row. I gotta think the Score is salivating over the Sox/Bulls contract, and they're gonna do whatever they can to get into Jerry's good graces in the coming months, which can only be a good thing for us.


Good point. I really hope they go to the Score. Even though I'm not that much a fan of the station anymore(horrible personalities, too many commercials), the watts that come out of that station would be a boon for the Sox.

thepaulbowski
04-23-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
over the last few day theyve had on rowand,gload,scho,elo twice, not to mention 3 or 4 yanks. the wise guys have also had great sox pre with jesee rogers live from the cell giving the lineups. way more than 1000 has been doing the past week

Does this mean I'm going to have to lift my personal ban on the Score? :?: I haven't listed to the Score at all, except for a couple Hawk games, in over two years. I don't even have it preset on my car radio!!

soxnut
04-23-2004, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
Does this mean I'm going to have to lift my personal ban on the Score? :?: I haven't listed to the Score at all, except for a couple Hawk games, in over two years. I don't even have it preset on my car radio!!


What are YOUR reasons for not listening?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2004, 01:57 PM
The ratings achieved by the 240+ per year Sox/Bulls broadcasts currently enjoyed by ESPN-Chicago is pretty much all that has kept that station afloat the past several years. The nationally-syndicated sportsblab format has been a complete bust in the Chicago market going all the way back to the 1994 introduction of the Fabulous Sports Babe. Dan McNeil talked a good game about beating the Score when he joined 'MVP (replacing that HUGE ass from Grand Rapids), but his show has barely moved the ratings needle.

How the hell is 'MVP going to fill up all that air-time? They need something H-U-G-E to make up the difference, and nothing short of stealing the Bears will do the trick. The Blackhawks suck, and no combination of college/minor league coverage would be enough either.

We're probably looking at the death of ESPN-Chicago if the Sox and Bulls bolt to the Score. Lord knows the old WMAQ radio station sorely needs programming worthy of their 50,000 watt clear-channel status. Some of the crap that makes it onto the air over there is a complete embarrassment to the City of Chicago.

:ass
"I resemble that remark!"

Does Chicago really need two sportsblab radio stations? That radio programming format lost its steam over five years ago. I say good riddance.

habibharu
04-23-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Any one know what Bea and Lickrish would say about that? yeah they would say WOOF WOOF

bobj4400
04-23-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Any one know what Bea and Lickrish would say about that?


Who cares, that guy is the biggest boob in Chicago that is not directly affiliated with the Flubs.

habibharu
04-23-2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Who cares, that guy is the biggest boob in Chicago that is not directly affiliated with the Flubs. i actually enjoy pappy. i like him because he speaks his mind and does pretty good interview with players, coaches, etc. he also has a great radio voice. some of the things he does, like adopt a pet and five team parlay are pretty lame but other than that i think that he does a pretty good job

bobj4400
04-23-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
i actually enjoy pappy. i like him because he speaks his mind and does pretty good interview with players, coaches, etc. he also has a great radio voice. some of the things he does, like adopt a pet and five team parlay are pretty lame but other than that i think that he does a pretty good job

either the guy is a horrible racist, or he is dumb as a box of rocks b/c some of the things he says on the air are reprehensible.

that and the constant fawning over ditka make me sick. ditka was fired almost 15 years ago and was a complete flop in his next coaching job...North needs to get his head out of the Coach's crotch.

JRIG
04-23-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The ratings achieved by the 240+ per year Sox/Bulls broadcasts currently enjoyed by ESPN-Chicago is pretty much all that has kept that station afloat the past several years. The nationally-syndicated sportsblab format has been a complete bust in the Chicago market going all the way back to the 1994 introduction of the Fabulous Sports Babe. Dan McNeil talked a good game about beating the Score when he joined 'MVP (replacing that HUGE ass from Grand Rapids), but his show has barely moved the ratings needle.



While I agree losing the Bulls and Sox would be a major blow to the station, the information above isn't completely accurate. ESPN has routinely defeated the Score in the 18-34 men demo the past two years. Mike and Mike have beaten Murphy a few times in 18-34 and 18-49 men. Mac, Jurko and Harry has been on top of North in 18-34 men for a while and last book beat him in 18-34, 18-49 AND 25-54 males. The regular lineup is starting to see a bit of traction.

The major weakness is the gaping gole from 9am-3pm. Boers and Bernsie kill anything put up in that timeslot. They really erred, in my opinion, with Mariotti. To hire a man who has failed multiple times with his own show, a man who has a built in handicap with a significant portion of th audience who wouldn't listen if her were the only show on radio...I don't understand it.

New ratings come out today. We'll see what they say.

habibharu
04-23-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
While I agree losing the Bulls and Sox would be a major blow to the station, the information above isn't completely accurate. ESPN has routinely defeated the Score in the 18-34 men demo the past two years. Mike and Mike have beaten Murphy a few times in 18-34 and 18-49 men. Mac, Jurko and Harry has been on top of North in 18-34 men for a while and last book beat him in 18-34, 18-49 AND 25-54 males. The regular lineup is starting to see a bit of traction.

The major weakness is the gaping gole from 9am-3pm. Boers and Bernsie kill anything put up in that timeslot. They really erred, in my opinion, with Mariotti. To hire a man who has failed multiple times with his own show, a man who has a built in handicap with a significant portion of th audience who wouldn't listen if her were the only show on radio...I don't understand it.

New ratings come out today. We'll see what they say. where can i find the ratings?

SSN721
04-23-2004, 02:39 PM
I must say that I am not a big fan of Mike North at all. I think the guy is rather pompous and him and Buffone are just a bunch of windbags doing the same show together. I like MJ and H myself (not to say Mac isnt pompous either, but he is a Sox fan and Jerko tends to keep him in check), but that is about the only programming I like left on there, other then Sox and Bulls broadcasts of course. I loved TK, but they dumped him for Mariotti, I like DP and Dibs, but then they cut their show for Jim Rome, I just dont know who is telling them how to program that station. 6 months ago it was a pretty good lineup, now other then MJ and H and SOx/Bulls broadcasts it pretty much sucks.

JRIG
04-23-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
where can i find the ratings?

Ratings for 12+ market share can be found here. They should be updated after 4pm today:

http://www.radioandrecords.com/Subscribers/ratings/homepage.htm

(Click on Chicago)

But those don't matter anyway. Advertisers buy on the demographic breakdowns. Those numbers are not generally available to the public.

SSN721
04-23-2004, 02:41 PM
I did forget about Mike and Mike in the morning. I listen to the internet stream at work all day, so fortunately I get the national shows, I only wish ESPN1000 would stream so I could listen to the beginning of MJ and H in the afternoon.

bobj4400
04-23-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by SSN721
I must say that I am not a big fan of Mike North at all. I think the guy is rather pompous and him and Buffone are just a bunch of windbags doing the same show together. I like MJ and H myself (not to say Mac isnt pompous either, but he is a Sox fan and Jerko tends to keep him in check), but that is about the only programming I like left on there, other then Sox and Bulls broadcasts of course. I loved TK, but they dumped him for Mariotti, I like DP and Dibs, but then they cut their show for Jim Rome, I just dont know who is telling them how to program that station. 6 months ago it was a pretty good lineup, now other then MJ and H and SOx/Bulls broadcasts it pretty much sucks.

I agree about 100% with everything in your post. TK was must hear radio...it is sad that he has ended his show. Even when they took him off the air in Chicago, I would listen via the internet at work everyday.

Randar68
04-23-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
I agree about 100% with everything in your post. TK was must hear radio...it is sad that he has ended his show. Even when they took him off the air in Chicago, I would listen via the internet at work everyday.

Amen, it's rare to find anyone who doesn't always think they know everything and intelligent at the same time. In Chicago, most of the radio personalities are the opposite. Pompous guys who don't know their head from their ***.

E Coast Sox Fan
04-23-2004, 03:07 PM
For my own selfish purposes, I hope that the Sox stay on ESPN 1000.

We can receive Sox broadcasts at night on the East Coast.

poorme
04-23-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by E Coast Sox Fan
For my own selfish purposes, I hope that the Sox stay on ESPN 1000.

We can receive Sox broadcasts at night on the East Coast.

You must be in some sort of bizzaro twilight zone, because I can't even pick them up 100 miles away.

JRIG
04-23-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by poorme
You must be in some sort of bizzaro twilight zone, because I can't even pick them up 100 miles away.

No, he's probably right. ESPN 1000 carries very well out east at night. It is a 50,000 watt station. But the signal is directed away from the west to protect another AM 1000 in Seattle. Thus, you can't even pick it up in Rockford.

na_na_na_na
04-23-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by poorme
You must be in some sort of bizzaro twilight zone, because I can't even pick them up 100 miles away.



Crazy as this sounds I was able to pick up AM 1000 in Niagra falls at night this feburary.

OurBitchinMinny
04-23-2004, 04:33 PM
Whenever Im in chicago I listen to the score. It has always seemed to rip on the cubs more and support the sox more. Not all of them and the shows have changed a lot, but Id like to see the sox there

Lip Man 1
04-23-2004, 05:03 PM
Folks:

The thinking is and this has been stated by Ed Sherman in some of his media columns, that ESPN Radio 1000 is delibrately , trying to force good ole Uncle Jerry to break his deal and leave.

ESPN Radio 1000 claims they are losing money hand over foot because the Sox / Bulls deals were negotiated by previous station ownership and both teams were good at the time.

The GM of ESPN Radio 1000 was quoted as saying the teams are awful and he blames ownership directly for not trying to improve the teams.

When asked about the hiring of Jay Mariotti and how Jerry Reinsdorf did not like it, he replyed (and I'm paraphrasing here,) 'well the Sox didn't ask us, their partner, how we felt about whether they should re-sign Bartolo Colon.'

Lip

Brian26
04-23-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

The thinking is and this has been stated by Ed Sherman in some of his media columns, that ESPN Radio 1000 is delibrately , trying to force good ole Uncle Jerry to break his deal and leave.

ESPN Radio 1000 claims they are losing money hand over foot because the Sox / Bulls deals were negotiated by previous station ownership and both teams were good at the time.

The GM of ESPN Radio 1000 was quoted as saying the teams are awful and he blames ownership directly for not trying to improve the teams.

When asked about the hiring of Jay Mariotti and how Jerry Reinsdorf did not like it, he replyed (and I'm paraphrasing here,) 'well the Sox didn't ask us, their partner, how we felt about whether they should re-sign Bartolo Colon.'

Lip


Lip,

Let's think about this using common sense just for a minute, ok...

ESPN 1000 is a Chicago sports station.

Although they do have some national shows, their local shows really get the higher ratings and are their bread and butter.

The locals shows talk about Chicago sports, like the Sox, Bulls, Cubs, Bears, and Blackhawks.

Are you trying to tell me that having the actual BROADCASTS of the Sox and Bulls games on their stations doesn't make money for them, but replacing those broadcasts with call-in shows to talk about what happens during those games WOULD make money?

I can guarantee the Sox and Bulls get higher ratings than J-Hood.

If ESPN 1000 wants to get rid of the Sox and Bulls rights, then they might as well pack up the tent and switch their format to country music or financial news.

Your argument makes no sense.

Please don't reply with, "I'm just telling you what I heard from the people associated with ESPN 1000".

And by the way, as bad as you claim the Sox are, the Bears and Blackhawks are ten times as bad.

bobj4400
04-23-2004, 05:33 PM
Brian--

I agree with you. There is no way in hell that having a Bulls or White Sox GAME on the radio is worse than having J Hood or Carmen and Silvy talking about the game that is being played on another station. It just makes no sense. Now if we were talking about the Blackhawks, I could see Lip's argument...

jabrch
04-23-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Any one know what Bea and Lickrish would say about that?

Woof Woof - probably both of them.

:)

Lip Man 1
04-23-2004, 05:49 PM
Brian:

I'm telling you what I read in the paper. You are in the media, ask your sources about it or speak with Ed Sherman or for that matter Les Grobstein. Grobber has been in radio for 30 years, he probably knows what's going on.

Lip

joecrede
04-23-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
ESPN Radio 1000 claims they are losing money hand over foot because the Sox / Bulls deals were negotiated by previous station ownership and both teams were good at the time.

Do you believe that claim Lip?

JRIG
04-23-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Do you believe that claim Lip?

That is, without a doubt, a true statement. It's not even close to being profitable for them.

MarqSox
04-23-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
can guarantee the Sox and Bulls get higher ratings than J-Hood.
I bet J Hood's show is exponentially cheaper to produce than Bulls/Sox games ... and I imagine his contract is slightly lower. Thus, even if he gets half the ratings, ESPN would still make a higher profit.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2004, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
That is, without a doubt, a true statement. It's not even close to being profitable for them.

Yes, but this begs the question how many people will listen to J-Hood or any of the other "personalities" if those listeners never tune in the radio station in the first place? Haven't the Sox and Bulls games been ratings leaders for 'MVP for several years now?

What happens to all those car radios that were tuned to the Sox game the previous night when the "male 18-45" drives to work the next morning with the radio already tuned to 'MVP's #1 competitor? Answer: the beginning of the end for ESPN-Chicago.

Without the Sox & Bulls, 'MVP will need to turn up the echo effect inside their studios to match the vanishing size of their listening audience. It's all but over for the station, because no matter how "profitable" the numbers look, the ratings will suck. Ownership will change formats because the opportunity cost of sticking with a lame sportsblab format makes no financial sense.

The Chicago market isn't big enough to support two sportsblab radio stations anymore -- especially if one of the two stations doesn't even have a major sports team to draw listeners to their "car radio preset button." Personally I feel there is plenty of evidence Chicago never could support two sportsblab stations, and the popularity of the format has shrunk significantly since its hey-dey in the early-90's.

My only regret is we can't get rid of both dolts at the same time.

:moron :ass
"That would be us."

Brian26
04-23-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Brian:

I'm telling you what I read in the paper. You are in the media, ask your sources about it or speak with Ed Sherman or for that matter Les Grobstein. Grobber has been in radio for 30 years, he probably knows what's going on.

Lip

Lip-

I'm not in the media. I have a master's degree in civil engineering.

Soxfest
04-24-2004, 12:05 AM
The local shows spend all day talking about the Scrubs and kissing Maddux ass 100% of the time, could you imagine if he would of pitch like this so far for the SOX they would bash us but since he is a Cub they kiss GM ass.

rahulsekhar
04-24-2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Brian26

Are you trying to tell me that having the actual BROADCASTS of the Sox and Bulls games on their stations doesn't make money for them, but replacing those broadcasts with call-in shows to talk about what happens during those games WOULD make money?

I can guarantee the Sox and Bulls get higher ratings than J-Hood.



OK, I think the key thing here is profitability. While I agree with your thought that the ratings would be significantly lower without Bulls/Sox broadcasts, my guess is that the marginal cost to produce the low-rated call-in show drop to virtually 0 whereas with the team broadcasts, they pay the rights fees and have higher production costs. So while the revenues would decline significantly, if the cost drop more it ends up being more profitable.

In either case though, I can't see how they'd survive as a Chicago sports station. I don't see them making enough $$$ without the team broadcasts, and if they're really losing a ton of $$ on those broadcasts, that can't continue long term either.

dwnstatesoxfan
04-24-2004, 01:04 AM
I really hope they end up on the Score. That would be awesome for a Peoria Sox fan who cannot receive AM 1000 but can get AM 670 like it's a local station!

crector
04-24-2004, 05:36 AM
Question:


The discussion about the Sox broadcasting rights has been about the team being on either WMVP or WSCR. Aren't there other Chicago radio stations such as WGN or WBBM that would be interested in carrying the Sox?

gosox41
04-24-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Like I was saying in another thread, this JR/JM war is really becoming an intriguing story. If ESPN loses the White Sox b/c of the Moron's show it would be a disaster for the station. Although Moronotti is in a strong position (three different media outlets to spread his message of White Sox hate) I would not bet against Reinsdorf in this battle. For all of JR's faults as an owner of a sports franchise, he is a shrewd businessman and not a self-made multi-millionaire for no reason...

ESPN 1000 is going to lose the Sox and the BUlls. I know the Bulls have sucked the last few years, but odds are they will improve and when they do their rating will sky rocket.

If ESPN were smart they'd try to renegotiate with the two teams on the cheap bringing up ratings. Instead they'd rather lose both coverages. I don't know about anyone else here, but I only listed to WMVP for the Bulls and the Sox. They really offer nothing that interests me. At least the Score has the Illini and hopefully now the Sox and the Bulls.


Bob

thepaulbowski
04-24-2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
What are YOUR reasons for not listening?

I can't stand Mike North and half of the others on there. It's sports talk, only if they agree with the caller. The only sports talk radio I enjoy is Mac, Jurko & Harry.

MarqSox
04-24-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by crector
Question:


The discussion about the Sox broadcasting rights has been about the team being on either WMVP or WSCR. Aren't there other Chicago radio stations such as WGN or WBBM that would be interested in carrying the Sox?
WGN couldn't do it -- not only would it disrupt their All Cubbies, All the Time format, but there would be probably 100 days during the season that the Cubs and Sox games would overlap. So that's out.

WBBM could do it, but that's a huge committment to interrupting their all news format. I know they do it for the Bears, but that's 16 days a year. The Sox would be 162 days per year. So, I imagine they're out too.

WLS won't be a candidate, since they're affiliated with ESPN through the Disney empire.

TornLabrum
04-24-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
WGN couldn't do it -- not only would it disrupt their All Cubbies, All the Time format, but there would be probably 100 days during the season that the Cubs and Sox games would overlap. So that's out.

WBBM could do it, but that's a huge committment to interrupting their all news format. I know they do it for the Bears, but that's 16 days a year. The Sox would be 162 days per year. So, I imagine they're out too.

WLS won't be a candidate, since they're affiliated with ESPN through the Disney empire.

Another thing to note regarding 'BBM is that the rest of the normal Bears coverage that you'd find, such as the coach's show, management report, etc. is farmed out to The Score, which minimizes the actual amount of Bears coverage on the station.

On the other hand, 'BBM did do the Sox games for a couple of years in the early '80s. They got burned by the '81 strike, though.

Brian26
04-24-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
OK, I think the key thing here is profitability. While I agree with your thought that the ratings would be significantly lower without Bulls/Sox broadcasts, my guess is that the marginal cost to produce the low-rated call-in show drop to virtually 0 whereas with the team broadcasts, they pay the rights fees and have higher production costs. So while the revenues would decline significantly, if the cost drop more it ends up being more profitable.

I really try not to listen to the Score at night, but the times I have caught the shows I've noticed they don't even play real commercials. After 9pm, does J Hood have any real sponsers at all? I've heard some station ID's and public service announcements, but they sell very little, if any, advertising for the evening shows. I'm confident the advertising the White Sox can sell for the games pays enough of the bills to keep them in business.

Seriously, the Score is one step up from college radio at this point. If MVP thinks they have a chance in hell without the Sox and Bulls, they're nuts. Like I said before, they might as well start playing country music or polka, because they got a better chance of earning a 1.2 or 1.3 with those formats than they do with any non-Sox or non-Bulls talk show.

Grobber33
04-24-2004, 06:55 PM
Gentlemen,Gentlemen(and Ladies)!! It's like I have been trying to tell you all here. Having spent the past year and a half on the inside at WMVP and having also been there in 1995 when previous Owners signed the current Sox-Bulls deal,,,and that's that WMVP is TRYING to tick off the Sox. WMVP(thou no fault of the Sox or Bulls BTW)overpaid BIG TIME to regain the rights from WMAQ after losing the Bulls following 1991. Reinsdorf got huge Radio rights which guarantee that AM 1000 can NOT break even,much less make any money-even if they sell every spot at full rate(which they clearly don't).
When ESPN bought the Station from Evergreen media,they tried to convince Jerry to re-do the deal,and he said no(heck,why should he have given back any $$$?).
No they are trying to piss him off and have done a good job of it by 1)putting on a Cub show that Tom Shaer hosted last Aug,Sep & Oct & 2)giving Jay the mid day show which the previous Program Director planned on giving to TDub and myself.

As you may have noticed,the Sox invited the Score to Tucson and allowed them inside TEP where as that was never permitted to any Station other than 1000 in the past. Dont be surprised is the Score is allowed to broadcast from Comiskey before this season is over.

It's WAR!!!! Jerry will not opt of his deal with 1000,but will grab every penny they will owe him thru the 2005 season,then all bets are off!!!

Jay is clearly there for that reason. He told me that he NEVER gets any flack at all when he hammer's Jerry,or the Sox period.

What will be interesting will be to see if Mike North lets up on the Sox P.R. Dept which he has pounded at times as well..

STAY TUNED=====The plot thickens folks!!!

joecrede
04-24-2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
It's WAR!!!! Jerry will not opt of his deal with 1000,but will grab every penny they will owe him thru the 2005 season,then all bets are off!!!

Agreed Les and if that's the case isn't it beyond silly to give Mariotti a show when he's proven to be nothing but ratings poison in his previous radio stints here in Chicago?

DMarte708
04-24-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
It's WAR!!!! Jerry will not opt of his deal with 1000,but will grab every penny they will owe him thru the 2005 season,then all bets are off!!!

Jay is clearly there for that reason. He told me that he NEVER gets any flack at all when he hammer's Jerry,or the Sox period.

What will be interesting will be to see if Mike North lets up on the Sox P.R. Dept which he has pounded at times as well..

STAY TUNED=====The plot thickens folks!!!

Maybe this has no relationship to the "war" between Reinsdorf and WMVP, but I noticed something about White Sox post game shows.

Whenever the Sox lose, its as if they are give all the time in the world to take phone calls......which usually are negative and insulting towards the team. (That's expected) But when Sox win, three or less callers are given time to comment on game. Dave usually says something like, "We have to hurry along in todays show, so I won't be able to take all your calls." The four game series in New York is where I noticed the desparity between a win/loss.

I understand that time of day, day of the week, and location play a role in what happens on a post game show, but with WMVP looking to screw anything associated with Reinsdorf it wouldn't surprise me.

gosox41
04-24-2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Gentlemen,Gentlemen(and Ladies)!! It's like I have been trying to tell you all here. Having spent the past year and a half on the inside at WMVP and having also been there in 1995 when previous Owners signed the current Sox-Bulls deal,,,and that's that WMVP is TRYING to tick off the Sox. WMVP(thou no fault of the Sox or Bulls BTW)overpaid BIG TIME to regain the rights from WMAQ after losing the Bulls following 1991. Reinsdorf got huge Radio rights which guarantee that AM 1000 can NOT break even,much less make any money-even if they sell every spot at full rate(which they clearly don't).
When ESPN bought the Station from Evergreen media,they tried to convince Jerry to re-do the deal,and he said no(heck,why should he have given back any $$$?).
No they are trying to piss him off and have done a good job of it by 1)putting on a Cub show that Tom Shaer hosted last Aug,Sep & Oct & 2)giving Jay the mid day show which the previous Program Director planned on giving to TDub and myself.

As you may have noticed,the Sox invited the Score to Tucson and allowed them inside TEP where as that was never permitted to any Station other than 1000 in the past. Dont be surprised is the Score is allowed to broadcast from Comiskey before this season is over.

It's WAR!!!! Jerry will not opt of his deal with 1000,but will grab every penny they will owe him thru the 2005 season,then all bets are off!!!

Jay is clearly there for that reason. He told me that he NEVER gets any flack at all when he hammer's Jerry,or the Sox period.

What will be interesting will be to see if Mike North lets up on the Sox P.R. Dept which he has pounded at times as well..

STAY TUNED=====The plot thickens folks!!!

Grobber,

You deal with Jay? What is his reason for his hatred for the Sox and Jerry Reinsforf. I'm all for some of the Sox bashing that has occurred over the media over the years, but Jay seems to take it to a different level. It's almost like it's personal. He at times come's off anti-semitic. I'll never forget the column he wrote about 5 years ago when he blamed JR for the fact that the NCAA Final Four was going to be played in the SuperDome (or some other big stadium). There were also a couple of articles posted here last year where he seemed to make up facts.

I certainly don't expect you to bad mouth the guy, but why does he have it in for the Sox, Frank, and JR? There's got to be a reason.

Anyway, I'd appreicate any information. At least you come off as an honest journalist willing to defend your POV. No one is 100% unbiased but Marriotti takes it to a different level with the Sox, and I think it says a lot about him when he feels the need to make up facts or stretch the truth to try to prove a point. It's like he enjoys seeing the team get bad PR.

For the record, Les, I have e-mail him before at the Sun-Times. I have written what I consider intelligent e-mails questioning where he got his facts on certain stories (with no bashing, name calling, threatening or hatred which is not something he can say when he writes). And surprise, surprise he never had the guts to respond to defend his honor and integrity let alone his opinion.

Needless to say I don't read the Sun-Tmes anymore, unless an article is posted specifically at this website. I also don't listed to WMVP anymore except for anything related to Sox or Bulls games just for the fact that I don't want to contribute any support to him.


Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.


Bob

Lip Man 1
04-25-2004, 12:26 AM
Bob says: "It's almost like it's personal."

Bob like I've told you before, it IS personal and it started when good ole Uncle Jerry called the owners of the Sun-Times to try to get him fired. Jay found about it...not a good thing when he has three different media access outlets and Uncle Jerry remains a hermit boycotting the media. If you are going to start a war at least have the guts to tell your side of the story to the media.

Lip

batmanZoSo
04-25-2004, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

The thinking is and this has been stated by Ed Sherman in some of his media columns, that ESPN Radio 1000 is delibrately , trying to force good ole Uncle Jerry to break his deal and leave.

ESPN Radio 1000 claims they are losing money hand over foot because the Sox / Bulls deals were negotiated by previous station ownership and both teams were good at the time.

The GM of ESPN Radio 1000 was quoted as saying the teams are awful and he blames ownership directly for not trying to improve the teams.

When asked about the hiring of Jay Mariotti and how Jerry Reinsdorf did not like it, he replyed (and I'm paraphrasing here,) 'well the Sox didn't ask us, their partner, how we felt about whether they should re-sign Bartolo Colon.'

Lip

The Sox weren't particularly good in 96, we're actually better now. It was all about the Bulls with that radio deal and Reinsdorf happens to own both teams. If 1000 is losing money it's their fault for getting hosed by Reinsdorf and it's also the Bulls fault for sucking so bad. It can't be the Sox that are hurting the station. I personally have not watched a Bulls game in 5 years. And I doubt I'm alone.

DMarte708
04-25-2004, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Bob says: "It's almost like it's personal."

Bob like I've told you before, it IS personal and it started when good ole Uncle Jerry called the owners of the Sun-Times to try to get him fired. Jay found about it...not a good thing when he has three different media access outlets and Uncle Jerry remains a hermit boycotting the media. If you are going to start a war at least have the guts to tell your side of the story to the media.

Lip

Interesting history there, Lip Man. If Mariotti reserved any hatred towards JR before that incident it surely was magnified after the request for his resignation.

Wonder when it was JR asked the Sun-Times to fire Jay: Could it have been after JR was pushing for a strike in 1994, or after the infamous white flag trade of 1997? How could a journalist such as Mariotti NOT insult Sox management after two blunders within 3 years. Coupled with dwindling attendance, appearance of the park, and a small market payrol Jay had enough "ammunition" to insult this team from whenever the incident occured until now.

gosox41
04-25-2004, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Bob says: [B]"It's almost like it's personal."

*****Bob like I've told you before, it IS personal and it started when good ole Uncle Jerry called the owners of the Sun-Times to try to get him fired. Jay found about it...not a good thing when he has three different media access outlets and Uncle Jerry remains a hermit boycotting the media. If you are going to start a war at least have the guts to tell your side of the story to the media.*****



Well I would say Marriotti proved his point. When is it beating a dead horse? So much for Marriotti taking the higher road. I would say 7 years of crying about it is enough for Jay.

Or let's put it another way. I used to subscribe to the Sun-Times as my daily paper. The reason I cancelled my subscription isdue to Mariotti. I mean it seems like he writes at least 1 and sometimes 2 negative articles a week blasting the Sox organization during baseball season. Some are deserved, but enough is enough. And it's not just his Sox bashing. It's his ability to make up information and not do research. Mariotti belongs in the Enquirer if he keep this up.

Or to put in it another way, Lip, Marriotti's writing is the reason why I subscribe to the Tribune now. I hate the Cubs, their stadium, Sammy, and everything else. But I guess I will live with the fact that I am supporting them financially. While I never have agreed with all the writers at a newspaper, no one at the Tribune currently takes things to new lows like Marriotti. So I will not get caught up in buying a Sun-Times or supporting him o that newspaper. I only listen to WMVP for Sox and Bulls games because there's no where else I can pick up the action when I'm in the car. As soon as they're gone and Jay is still working there, I'm gone.

maybe whoever buys the Sun-TImes will care more about integrity and honesty, something I thought was key in the journalism inudstry (unless you're working for a tabloid) THe simple fact that Jay makes up facts and can't to simple research is reason enough to fire him.

Also, why does he have it in for Frank? It's always Sammy's great but anything with Frank is bad.


Bob

TornLabrum
04-25-2004, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Bob says: "It's almost like it's personal."

Bob like I've told you before, it IS personal and it started when good ole Uncle Jerry called the owners of the Sun-Times to try to get him fired. Jay found about it...not a good thing when he has three different media access outlets and Uncle Jerry remains a hermit boycotting the media. If you are going to start a war at least have the guts to tell your side of the story to the media.

Lip

Reinsdorf is telling his side of the story to the media through Charlie McCarthy...er...Hawk Harrelson.

Grobber33
04-25-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Agreed Les and if that's the case isn't it beyond silly to give Mariotti a show when he's proven to be nothing but ratings poison in his previous radio stints here in Chicago?

I can tell you that ratings are not the #1 motive at ESPN 1000 right now. I think many of the moves they are making(or not making for that matter)would prove that.Rome is only on because he pays them a fortune. Mike & Mike,Patrick,and Todd Wright are untouchable per the Network.They have only closed the gap with the Score because the Score has had it's alltime lowest numbers.

Just to answer the question about the Sox & Bulls,,,,in 1994 when negotiations between WMVP and Jerry Reinsdorf began,I was told to avoid saying anything on the air that would piss off Jerry(not that I paid any attention to that order--tho I have always gotten along with him anyway). In fact,Rob Gallas told me that Larry Wert would wash Jerry's Car in order to get the Sox(whom they had to pick up in order to re-gain the Bulls). Jordan had also come out of retirement so the Bulls became a bigger 'catch' for 1000 which they wanted back.
As a result,they overpaid Jerry,AND gave him power over the Station whereas he could over-rule certain on air people. Jay suddenly was off the air in late Nov 1994 and 2 Months later,Jerry came on the air(with Steve Dahl)to announce the new deal. Everyone at the Station was high fiving each other,except me--because I saw the numbers and knew then that the format was doomed,and that they were not trying to compete with the Score.
Then in Feb 1996,Mike North called me at home and said "we're going 24 hours in the next year or so,and we're going to get you over here away from those losers." In June 1996,as I feared,they dropped the all sports format at 1000(the night before the NBA Finals started!),and in April 1997 I did indeed join the Score.
The bottom line was WMVP was out to get the Bulls back and they took on the Sox AND changed WLUP-AM into WMVP to intice Jerry--it worked. The operation was a success but the patient died!
When Disney bought WMVP,Jerry would not reduce the rights fees any,but he did give up some of the power he had over on the air talent---otherwise Jay would not be on right now.

These are all FACTS wether ESPN 1000 Management wants to deny them or not.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-25-2004, 03:46 PM
Nobody, least of all me, is doubting your facts, Les. I have no doubt ABC/Disney is trying to piss off Reinsdorf. It's pretty obvious even to an outsider like me.

I think the salient point is whether Chicago will support two sportsblab radio stations when one of them gives up all of its major local team broadcast rights. There simply aren't as many listeners bothering to tune into this sort of format anymore, a mere fraction of what it was back in the early-90's.

This spells real trouble for ESPN-Chicago because filling the programming hole left by 243+ missing Sox/Bull broadcasts will certainly prove fatal. That's because your remaining options are weak. The best you can do is a bunch of national shows, which have always done poorly here. Or you can program a bunch of local guys talking into a microphone, but that's even worse than what the Score is today because you won't benefit from the 'BBM Bears feed, or the ongoing halo effect of being the originator of the sportsblab format in Chicago, either. And besides all that, the 'MVP signal sucks compared to the Score's.

You should know better than most that radio stations can't hold on forever with tired programming formats. How many tinny AM radio rock'n roll records are being spun at "The Big 89" where you worked all those years?

Without a major sports team added to the broadcast roster (i.e. the Bears), WMVP will be cooked.

Grobber33
04-26-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Nobody, least of all me, is doubting your facts, Les. I have no doubt ABC/Disney is trying to piss off Reinsdorf. It's pretty obvious even to an outsider like me.

This spells real trouble for ESPN-Chicago because filling the programming hole left by 243+ missing Sox/Bull broadcasts will certainly prove fatal. That's because your remaining options are weak. The best you can do is a bunch of national shows, which have always done poorly here. Or you can program a bunch of local guys talking into a microphone, but that's even worse than what the Score is today because you won't benefit from the 'BBM Bears feed, or the ongoing halo effect of being the originator of the sportsblab format in Chicago, either. And besides all that, the 'MVP signal sucks compared to the Score's.

You should know better than most that radio stations can't hold on forever with tired programming formats. How many tinny AM radio rock'n roll records are being spun at "The Big 89" where you worked all those years?

Without a major sports team added to the broadcast roster (i.e. the Bears), WMVP will be cooked.


George,you make some GREAT points. 670 is a better signal,especially west & south,while 1000's signal is pretty good to the East,but so is 670.

Remember,tho that ESPN 1000 has motives that most listeners around here dont care about. They are protecting their Network(or as we were told "the ESPN Brand"). Chicagoans always have and always will prefer LOCAL programs--even bad ones over good National shows. For example,the previous Program Director wanted to put me on overnights in early 2002,but Bristol would'nt let him pre-empt the great Todd Wright. ESPN 1000 did a nice Bears pre-game show with Silvy,Mongo & Dureson that I was a part of,but since they carried network stuff(either game day or a meaningless Westwood One game that nobody around here cared about)we got killed during Bears post game by the Score & WGN. Dave Kerner & Andy Mazur were on live after games from the press box's while I had to just feed tape in which did'nt get on the air untill Tom Shaer was in the next morning.
They just dont care. Look,Dan Patrick is a terriffic show,but 1000 will never get ratings for that better than Boers & Bernstein or the Wise Guys. Rome is unlistenable to me(and most)unless you are from California,but they are taking his money to offset the red ink their Sox deal is causing.
The Score has been vunerable,but ESPN has'nt really 'gone after them'. Danny Mac said a year ago on the air "When you have your opponent down,you stomp on his throat and crush him,,not give him a hand and help him up!". He was so correct,because that's exactly what has happened. The fact that Mac,Jurko & Harry won the last book is a big feather in their caps!