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SoxxoS
04-23-2004, 02:44 AM
It's looks like the Sox miracle pitch. It's beginning to become a cycle...KW scouts a guy with "stuff" he signs him to a deal, tells him to add "the cutter" and he comes out pitching lights out.

So we cought lightning in a bottle last year with Loiaza, and his new found "cutter."

Now, we have Show, who added the cutter to his repitoire, and is looking like he could be Loiaza lite (I know it's still early).

Here is the question to the pitching experts...How hard is it to learn this pitch, and are more pitchers going to add it (especially in the Sox minor leagues) after seeing the success Loiaza and Show have had with it? Can a guy like Garland add it as well...???

depy48
04-23-2004, 03:33 AM
I dont know how difficult it is to learn the pitch, i think the difficulty comes in having the pitch be effective. Its also the smarts on when to use the cutter. I think what also makes the cutter effective is that its an overused pitch.

I've been working on my own cutter, expect to see me at Comiskey in September

bc2k
04-23-2004, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Here is the question to the pitching experts...How hard is it to learn this pitch, and are more pitchers going to add it (especially in the Sox minor leagues) after seeing the success Loiaza and Show have had with it? Can a guy like Garland add it as well...???

Loaiza first experimented with it towards the end of 2002 with Toronto and had perfected it by Comiskey's 2003 home opener. Schoeneweis, as far as I know, didn't experiment with the cutter until this past offseason. So to answer your question, not long. I mean, after all, it's still a fastball.

White_Sock
04-23-2004, 05:31 AM
I dont know how difficult it is to learn the pitch, i think the difficulty comes in having the pitch be effective. Its also the smarts on when to use the cutter. I think what also makes the cutter effective is that its an overused pitch.

The cutter is not a hard pitch to learn at all. As long as a pitcher has a grasp of the 4-seamer and can throw it with accuracy, he can easily learn the cutter.

Prerequesites for the cutter:

1. decent 4 seam fastball
2. decent speed/power (90s at least)

bc2k
04-23-2004, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by White_Sock
The cutter is not a hard pitch to learn at all. As long as a pitcher has a grasp of the 4-seamer and can throw it with accuracy, he can easily learn the cutter.

Prerequesites for the cutter:

1. decent 4 seam fastball
2. decent speed/power (90s at least)

i've just realized that billy koch could use a cutter. perhaps we could have a legit closer by the All-Star break--not because of an acquisition--but because of koch's learned cut fastball...

batmanZoSo
04-23-2004, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
It's looks like the Sox miracle pitch. It's beginning to become a cycle...KW scouts a guy with "stuff" he signs him to a deal, tells him to add "the cutter" and he comes out pitching lights out.

So we cought lightning in a bottle last year with Loiaza, and his new found "cutter."

Now, we have Show, who added the cutter to his repitoire, and is looking like he could be Loiaza lite (I know it's still early).

Here is the question to the pitching experts...How hard is it to learn this pitch, and are more pitchers going to add it (especially in the Sox minor leagues) after seeing the success Loiaza and Show have had with it? Can a guy like Garland add it as well...???

Good observation. I don't know where we'd be without the ....

http://www4.synapse.ne.jp/sand_life/pc/image/cutter.jpg

The symbol of our pitching genius /\

Garland just needs to improve his pitching IQ and that'll come with experience. He should be able to get over stuff like giving up big hits when he's ahead in the count. And he's trusting his "stuff" more and more every year. He's only had one bad start this year and we won that game.

DrummerGeorgefan
04-23-2004, 09:34 AM
What makes the cutter effective, its movement or is it hard to pick up and distinguish the rotation

munchman33
04-23-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by DrummerGeorgefan
What makes the cutter effective, its movement or is it hard to pick up and distinguish the rotation

What makes the cutter difficult is that it is hard and has tons of late movement. It's and equalizer for righties facing lefties and lefties facing rights, as it darts in very late. The trouble with the cutter is that it is incredibly difficult to control and should only be learned by those with pinpoint accuracy.

chisoxjk
04-23-2004, 10:55 AM
Like Me!!! :bkoch:

SoxxoS
04-23-2004, 12:44 PM
It seems like Koch is the next canidate...or he is going to go in for voluntary Tommy John to get that velocity up.

kermittheefrog
04-23-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
It seems like Koch is the next canidate...or he is going to go in for voluntary Tommy John to get that velocity up.

Koch has already been through TJ surgery once, back when he was a prospect in Toronto's system.

RichFitztightly
04-23-2004, 01:23 PM
The cutter can't be too difficult to throw. Jaime Navarro threw a cutter, but in his case they called it a slider. I guess it's kind of embarrassing when you're number one pitcher throws a fastball and a cut fastball and nothing else.

pudge
04-23-2004, 01:26 PM
Cripes can we get Dan Wright to throw one? Or does he already?

Jurr
04-23-2004, 01:47 PM
The cutter enahnces a pitcher's repertoire because it makes the unfavorable matchup (rightey vs. lefty or vice versa) more favorable, because you can start a pitch on the inside of the hitter and make it break and nip the corner, which will catch you looking. Now, if you get a reputation for control with the cutter, like Mariano Rivera, you break bats. That's how it works.
The basic idea is to throw a fastball but get a slight amount of side spin that makes the ball move in or out a few inches. You do this by moving your fastball grip (usually the 4-seam fastball grip) slightly off-center. Some pitchers bring the thumb slightly up the inside of the ball and the index and middle fingers slightly toward the outside. This gives you a pitch somewhere between a fastball and a slider, and, thrown properly, that's how the pitch will move, like a very tight slider.

SoxxoS
04-23-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Koch has already been through TJ surgery once, back when he was a prospect in Toronto's system.

I knew that...I think he just may try to go for another...

Actually, is that even possible?

Vsahajpal
04-23-2004, 06:02 PM
The grip isn't radically different from a 4-seam grip, it is just off-center with the thumb moved inside and the index and middle finger outside. Plus velocity isn't a pre-requisite, although as with any pitch it helps (Kip Wells and Mariano Rivera have excellent cut fastballs), but Moyer and Maddux have had tremendous success with the cutter. Leiter's cutter has become more effective as his velocity has decreased.