PDA

View Full Version : Uribe at SS


whitesoxwilkes
04-23-2004, 12:28 AM
The more I see it, the more I like it. Doesn't seem to bobble popups like he does when he plays 2B, and has an absolute cannon even when he throws off-balance.

Think Manos is trade bait when he comes off the DL?

daveeym
04-23-2004, 12:33 AM
No. Manos has been a company man from day one and unless they are totally hooking him up in some situation that he agrees to it's his job until his contract runs out.

nodiggity59
04-23-2004, 12:33 AM
From a simple baseball "best players" standpoint, I think the best option would be Uribe at 2B and Manos at short with Willie on the bench.

However, I know that the Sox may want to trade Manos' contract away. Good luck with that.

On another note, Manos, Uribe, and Harris are the ONLY serviceable 2B-SS we have (Dransfeldt isn't good enough). If we trade Manos, we'd have NO good backup.

mweflen
04-23-2004, 12:37 AM
I can't see how KW wouldn't consider it... Jose is a popular player with some pop, but 5 mil is an awful lot of money.

The Dodgers currently have Cesar Izturis at short - he hits around .270, but no pop. So they might be interested...

Maybe the Pirates would give us Kip Wells back?

I would personally be sad to see Jose go, but if the money went to resigning Magglio and finding some more pitching, I would probably forgive and forget after a few months.

(speaking of 5 mil players... KW would never trade Koch as he might Jose, since Jose was a Scheuler acquisition, while Koch is KW's own personal albatross...)

And yes, I also would personally hate to see Willie as the every day 2B at this stage - I'd much rather see Valentin and Uribe up the middle.

SEALgep
04-23-2004, 12:52 AM
Jose isn't going anywhere this season. However, if Uribe keeps playing the way he is, he will probably be the starting SS next year. Unless they still prefer to keep Manos for a discount, and keep Uribe as a utility guy (which he has also played well as). My guess is that he becomes the SS next year.

jabrch
04-23-2004, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by mweflen

(speaking of 5 mil players... KW would never trade Koch as he might Jose, since Jose was a Scheuler acquisition, while Koch is KW's own personal albatross...)



KW won't trade Koch not because he was one of his doins, but because nobody would likely want him and his 5mm deal. Koch's deal was also a KW product, not a Schue-job. Along with PK, those were KW's three biggest screwups IMHO

stillz
04-23-2004, 01:43 AM
Uribe in 2005 for sure. Jose will get a big over-payday somewhere if he hits 25 dingers again.

But it sounds like we all agree it's nearly time to bench Willie.

jabrch
04-23-2004, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by stillz
Uribe in 2005 for sure. Jose will get a big over-payday somewhere if he hits 25 dingers again.

But it sounds like we all agree it's nearly time to bench Willie.

I really want Harris to succeed. He has the speed to be a prototype leadoff hitter, if only he could actually hit or find some other way to get on base. After all, you can't steal first base.

I'd love to see Willie get it together. I just don't know that it will happen.

Sportscenter did a piece on leadoff hitters tonight. I wish we had a great leadoff hitter in the Brett Butler mold.

mdep524
04-23-2004, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
I really want Harris to succeed. He has the speed to be a prototype leadoff hitter, if only he could actually hit or find some other way to get on base. After all, you can't steal first base.

I'd love to see Willie get it together. I just don't know that it will happen.

Sportscenter did a piece on leadoff hitters tonight. I wish we had a great leadoff hitter in the Brett Butler mold.

I really wanted Willie to succeed too, but the guy just can't hit. How many times did he strike out looking in this NY series? Quite a few, and he looked hopeless up there most of the time--to the point where he couldn't even take the bat off his shoulder for an entire at bat. To make matters worse, he's not the kind of guy who works counts and gets walks. If we had another option to lead off (Reed possibly) I think Willie might make a decent #9 hitter.

SSN721
04-23-2004, 08:26 AM
I confess, I like Willie quite a bit. He hasnt been awful but looking at his stats I must say of course when can expect more from that position offensively then he provides at the moment. But just like many people say you cant use a few weeks as a sample to judge a team I also feel the same way about players. He hasnt done anything bad enough to get yanked, cost us any games with terrible play. The games we lost I think there is enough blame to go to most of the lineup. I at least want him to see another month of full time play before I really judge him. I still dont think he has had consistent enough playing time to make a final decision on him. Just my opinion.

batmanZoSo
04-23-2004, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
I confess, I like Willie quite a bit. He hasnt been awful but looking at his stats I must say of course when can expect more from that position offensively then he provides at the moment. But just like many people say you cant use a few weeks as a sample to judge a team I also feel the same way about players. He hasnt done anything bad enough to get yanked, cost us any games with terrible play. The games we lost I think there is enough blame to go to most of the lineup. I at least want him to see another month of full time play before I really judge him. I still dont think he has had consistent enough playing time to make a final decision on him. Just my opinion.

Willie has done a pretty good job. He doesn't have that many hits but a lot of them were big ones. Same with his RBI total. Within time, Willie will revert to a utility player and it'll be Valentin/Uribe up the middle. Uribe proved he could hit. I haven't gotten the sense that he tries to hit homers too much, his swing is level and he often tries to poke hard grounders through the left side. He can't steal bases, but he can score from first, and his defense has been solid.

Brian26
04-23-2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by whitesoxwilkes
The more I see it, the more I like it. Doesn't seem to bobble popups like he does when he plays 2B, and has an absolute cannon even when he throws off-balance.

Think Manos is trade bait when he comes off the DL?

Absolutely. Jose won't end the year with the Sox. I love the guy, but he is the hidden albatross for this team.

batmanZoSo
04-23-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Absolutely. Jose won't end the year with the Sox. I love the guy, but he is the hidden albatross for this team.

You think so? Who wants Valentin?

lowesox
04-23-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by stillz
Uribe in 2005 for sure. Jose will get a big over-payday somewhere if he hits 25 dingers again.

But it sounds like we all agree it's nearly time to bench Willie.

I think a lot of posts in this thread are a little premature. Yes, uribe has been fatanstic, but we're only like 15 games into the season. At this point last year I was hyped about Jimenez. And I think, by that logic, we should be patient with Willie Harris - who has actually exceeded my expectations (After all, wasn't he hitting something like .270 about a week ago?).

I agree that the ideal solution would be for Uribe to take over for Valentin (who I've never really been much of a fan of - and some of you know that) but lets see how the next 145 games go first.

batmanZoSo
04-23-2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
I think a lot of posts in this thread are a little premature. Yes, uribe has been fatanstic, but we're only like 15 games into the season. At this point last year I was hyped about Jimenez. And I think, by that logic, we should be patient with Willie Harris - who has actually exceeded my expectations (After all, wasn't he hitting something like .270 about a week ago?).

I agree that the ideal solution would be for Uribe to take over for Valentin (who I've never really been much of a fan of - and some of you know that) but lets see how the next 145 games go first.

The difference between Jimenez and Uribe is that Jimenez had drawbacks that you can't fix--laziness, no range, and just a dumb player. The only thing wrong with Uribe historically is that he hasn't hit that well yet, which is largely due to overswinging. And I think we've already begun fixing that. I think he'll be here for a while.

Tekijawa
04-23-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by daveeym
No. Manos has been a company man from day one and unless they are totally hooking him up in some situation that he agrees to it's his job until his contract runs out.

Which Should have been back in January!

BeerHandle
04-23-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by whitesoxwilkes
The more I see it, the more I like it. Doesn't seem to bobble popups like he does when he plays 2B, and has an absolute cannon even when he throws off-balance.

Think Manos is trade bait when he comes off the DL?

Uribe has been playing great. He is the SS for the future. I do believe that Jose could be trade bait if we can't get a 5th starter that can win.

lowesox
04-23-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
The difference between Jimenez and Uribe is that Jimenez had drawbacks that you can't fix--laziness, no range, and just a dumb player. The only thing wrong with Uribe historically is that he hasn't hit that well yet, which is largely due to overswinging. And I think we've already begun fixing that. I think he'll be here for a while.

Believe me, I don't want to get into a position where I'm pulling apart Uribe. I like the guy and so far, I like the way he plays. But we should keep in mind it's still early. And, for the record, Uribe had a bit of a bum reputation when he came over. I think the Colorado folk were saying that he was lazy - although so far he seems like a good fit.

SEALgep
04-23-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Uribe has been playing great. He is the SS for the future. I do believe that Jose could be trade bait if we can't get a 5th starter that can win. I really doubt we trade him, but it's looking more and more like we won't resign him. Unless we decide he still has value, we want to keep Uribe as a utility guy for an extra year, and Jose decides to sign a deal for far less than his option is giving him.

SEALgep
04-23-2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Believe me, I don't want to get into a position where I'm pulling apart Uribe. I like the guy and so far, I like the way he plays. But we should keep in mind it's still early. And, for the record, Uribe had a bit of a bum reputation when he came over. I think the Colorado folk were saying that he was lazy - although so far he seems like a good fit. That's true, but he doesn't appear lazy with us. He seems to have a pretty good attitude as well. Plus, I don't think Ozzie will ever give him the chance to be lazy. He will tear him a new one if he doesn't play hard and work hard. Especially at 24 years old and virtually unproven as an everyday man. I have every confidence that Uribe won't need a reminder with us.

jabrch
04-23-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Believe me, I don't want to get into a position where I'm pulling apart Uribe. I like the guy and so far, I like the way he plays. But we should keep in mind it's still early. And, for the record, Uribe had a bit of a bum reputation when he came over. I think the Colorado folk were saying that he was lazy - although so far he seems like a good fit.

I don't remember him being called lazy - are you thinking of D'angelo Jimenez? Uribe's problem was always that he seemed to perform fine in the minors, but wasn't comfortable at the mlb level. when we signed him, one of the things I remember hearing is that having some more latinos around him would help - since Colorado doesn't have many either on the team, in management or even in the Denver area. Our team has a strong latino flavor - and so does our city. I know it is early, but everything I have seen from Uribe has been good so far.

WWIII
04-23-2004, 04:34 PM
This is just an idea, but I am very impressed with Uribe. I think if he keeps this up until Valentin is back, then we should consider Uribe as the full time SS and platoon Valentin and Harris at 2B. I want Harris to do well, and he may still do so in the future, but he is a liability in our line-up now. In last night's game, I remember Crede getting on in the 8th inning I think, and I thought to myself, I wish Harris was available to pinch run. At this point, I think Harris fits very well as the guy off the bench. I hate to take him out of the lineup because I know he needs to be there to get better, but at this point he does not have my confidence.

JRIG
04-23-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by WWIII
This is just an idea, but I am very impressed with Uribe. I think if he keeps this up until Valentin is back, then we should consider Uribe as the full time SS and platoon Valentin and Harris at 2B. I want Harris to do well, and he may still do so in the future, but he is a liability in our line-up now. In last night's game, I remember Crede getting on in the 8th inning I think, and I thought to myself, I wish Harris was available to pinch run. At this point, I think Harris fits very well as the guy off the bench. I hate to take him out of the lineup because I know he needs to be there to get better, but at this point he does not have my confidence.

How would you platoon Valentin and Harris? They're both left-handed hitters.

Uribe is a much better option at 2nd base than Harris. If you want to use Willie's speed, fine. But do so as a pinch runner. Once again, you can't steal first base. The only speed you'll see from Harris this season is how fast he runs back to the dugout after grounding out again.

Lip Man 1
04-23-2004, 04:57 PM
Joe Cowley in the Daily Southtown has a story about a week after the deal that called Jose a 'poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez.' Cowley stated that he spoke with a number of Colorado people who said Uribe was lazy, tended to swing for the fences and had an attitude problem, for what it's worth.

Lip

Mickster
04-23-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe Cowley in the Daily Southtown has a story about a week after the deal that called Jose a 'poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez.' Cowley stated that he spoke with a number of Colorado people who said Uribe was lazy, tended to swing for the fences and had an attitude problem, for what it's worth.

Lip

Lip,

Quoting Cowley one week after his childish and unprofessional comments on this board hardly proves any points.

34 Inch Stick
04-23-2004, 05:20 PM
Did I miss something? Joe has been known to pull a hit and run on this board in the past but I don't remember seeing anything out of him last week.

BY the way the mere mention of his name usually pulls him out of the wood work. He realizes that when he posts here his readership is about equal to that of his current employer.

Mickster
04-23-2004, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Did I miss something? Joe has been known to pull a hit and run on this board in the past but I don't remember seeing anything out of him last week.

BY the way the mere mention of his name usually pulls him out of the wood work. He realizes that when he posts here his readership is about equal to that of his current employer.

You certainly missed something....

LINK (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=361160#post361160)

What a moron.

jabrch
04-23-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe Cowley in the Daily Southtown has a story about a week after the deal that called Jose a 'poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez.' Cowley stated that he spoke with a number of Colorado people who said Uribe was lazy, tended to swing for the fences and had an attitude problem, for what it's worth.

Lip

OK - I never remembered that. I know when we signed him, they talked up the latino thing - and that this would be a better place for him.


A poor man's D'Angelo Jimenez...yikes.

jabrch
04-23-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I really doubt we trade him, but it's looking more and more like we won't resign him. Unless we decide he still has value, we want to keep Uribe as a utility guy for an extra year, and Jose decides to sign a deal for far less than his option is giving him.

How could we trade him? Realistically, who would want him? My only thoughts are the Dodgers and the Jays - teams that need an SS and would have money to buy one. Valentin wouldn't really be a good fit for either of those teams since Ricardi and Depodesta probably wouldn't see the value in Valentin that we would. I don't know that we could get much for him.

Lip Man 1
04-23-2004, 05:53 PM
Mickster:

The person asked (mentioned) a story about Uribe / Jimenez. I was mearly confirming it. I don't have access to the Colorado people...Cowley did.

If you think my sumnation is inaccurate call Colorado yourself and ask.

Lip

beckett21
04-23-2004, 08:20 PM
And the media has never been wrong before...

I had heard/read the same things about Uribe and will admit I had a negative impression formed of him before he even put on the Sox uniform. That is unfair and he should be judged on the merits of what he does while he wears the silver and black. Not saying the comments/opinions were untrue, but some players need a jolt of reality to hit them and wake them up. Hopefully Uribe has found that here. He has done nothing yet that I know of that has been negative. From what I have seen on the field so far, he deserves a fair shake.

Joe Cowley's word now holds about as much value as a three dollar bill. Someone with such vitriol and an apparent axe to grind should not be given any credence whatsoever.