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View Full Version : I officially declare Schoe's Foes Dead


MRKARNO
04-22-2004, 11:11 PM
Scott Schoeneweis has thoroughly impressed myself and all of the other members of Schoe's Foes. His awful spring training was an abberration. He is going to be a solid part of our staff. 2-1 including 2 quality starts against the yanks?? I'll take that any day. Props to Kenny Williams on this one and also to Coop, Ozzie and the man himself, Scott Schoeneweis.

DSpivack
04-22-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Scott Schoeneweis has thoroughly impressed myself and all of the other members of Schoe's Foes. His awful spring training was an abberration. He is going to be a solid part of our staff. 2-1 including 2 quality starts against the yanks?? I'll take that any day. Props to Kenny Williams on this one and also to Coop, Ozzie and the man himself, Scott Schoeneweis.

I like how he is pitching so far. I was a doubter, and it is only April. Just keep on doing what you're doing, Schoey!

hose
04-22-2004, 11:14 PM
thats ok I'll go into the archives next year to get your Scho's foes
thread :D:

MRKARNO
04-22-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by hose
thats ok I'll go into the archives next year to get your Scho's foes
thread :D:

I know you're joking, but just to straighten this out, I said that I would be willing to support him if he showed me that he can pitch effectively. I think I said that I would remove the Schoes Foes tag if he got a QS in his first start, which he did and I removed the tag. I want him to succeed really badly, but he hadn't done jack in ST. Lucky for us all of those normally BS quotes about him just trying to mix in his pitches were true.

nodiggity59
04-22-2004, 11:29 PM
I haven't actually been able to watch a game with Schoe this year. How would anyone describe a game with him starting? Are the innings smooth, or does he work out of jams? I doubt he has amazing stuff, so I would think the games of been "interesting." Then again, I haven't seen and he does have a 2.something ERA.

How sails the ship with Schoe at the helm?

jeremyb1
04-22-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
His awful spring training was an abberration.

Hehe. The first five seasons of his career too?

bc2k
04-22-2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Scott Schoeneweis has thoroughly impressed myself and all of the other members of Schoe's Foes. His awful spring training was an abberration. He is going to be a solid part of our staff. 2-1 including 2 quality starts against the yanks?? I'll take that any day. Props to Kenny Williams on this one and also to Coop, Ozzie and the man himself, Scott Schoeneweis.

Good decision MRKARNO, but we Sox fans need a whipping boy. How about you create a Joe's Foes (anti-Crede) fanclub instead. Of course if he ever gets over the Mendoza line, we'd have to consider dropping that club too. This allows us to keep an anti-fanclub while still retaining the rhyming scheme of Foes.

soltrain21
04-23-2004, 12:11 AM
When does Schoe's Bros start up?

sas1974
04-23-2004, 12:15 AM
I didn't go as far as joining Schoe's Foes, but I was very much against him getting a spot in our rotation. Up to this point, I must eat my words. He has looked really good. Mixing up his pitches. Changing speeds and arm angles. I am impressed. Scott, if you're out there, I salute you! :D:

mweflen
04-23-2004, 12:21 AM
I'll happily eat some crow on this one - if Schoney keeps it up...

He does seem to consistently get into trouble after 6, though....

As much as a player gets crap on this forum, I'm sure we all like to be proven wrong.


(now if Willie can just pull it together at the plate...thank goodness he got the gimmie walk in the first... because swinging the bat...... "mercy!")

mweflen
04-23-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Hehe. The first five seasons of his career too?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not that high on Schoney yet... but seems to me E-Lo had some pretty awful seasons before last year, too...

mweflen
04-23-2004, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Good decision MRKARNO, but we Sox fans need a whipping boy.

I nominate Wee Willie...

Come back Jose! Come back so we can get the platoon again!

OurBitchinMinny
04-23-2004, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Good decision MRKARNO, but we Sox fans need a whipping boy. How about you create a Joe's Foes (anti-Crede) fanclub instead. Of course if he ever gets over the Mendoza line, we'd have to consider dropping that club too. This allows us to keep an anti-fanclub while still retaining the rhyming scheme of Foes.


Rowand sucks too you know

crector
04-23-2004, 12:55 AM
Ever notice how when a Sox pitcher doesn't do so well, Mr. Liptak jumps all over him, but when a Sox pitcher such as Scott Schoeneweis does very well, he says nothing? Is Mr. Liptak only a 1-trick pony who can only say bad things about Sx players, but never any good things?

WhiteSox = Life
04-23-2004, 01:10 AM
Oh, great. Now that Schoe's Foes no's mo's, he's gonna get lit up his next start!

Blast it!

pudge
04-23-2004, 01:16 AM
You guys let him off the hook way too soon.... it's a looooong season... although I would fear D.Wright much more at this point...

jabrch
04-23-2004, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by nodiggity59
I haven't actually been able to watch a game with Schoe this year. How would anyone describe a game with him starting? Are the innings smooth, or does he work out of jams? I doubt he has amazing stuff, so I would think the games of been "interesting." Then again, I haven't seen and he does have a 2.something ERA.

How sails the ship with Schoe at the helm?

I have seen both of his starts, and was at tonights. Here's my conclusions so far.

1) He shouldn't be going much further than 90 pitches. He tires between 90 and 100 and starts leaving the ball up a bit.

2) He moves the ball around very well and has a deceptive motion

3) He keeps very good hitters off balance, not know what is coming

4) He doesn't mind going deep into counts, and he doesn't mind walking good hitters - he seems to refuse to throw the ole "get it over" fastball that usually gets killed

5) He changes speeds really well with everything he throws

Great job by KW to move him back to the rotation from the pen. Nice coaching by Coop and Oz. He makes a very solid #3/#4 along with Garland behind our #1/#2 punch of Loaiza and Buehrle. The rotation is a lot better than most people expected it to be at the beginning of the season; largely due to Shoe.

stillz
04-23-2004, 01:37 AM
Not a foe. He's looked solid twice now against the bombers. Not that they been bombing.

Willie's highest on my stink list. One or two more series like this, and Uribe should get the nod.

Uribe's Compadres!

SoxxoS
04-23-2004, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by stillz
Not a foe. He's looked solid twice now against the bombers. Not that they been bombing.

Willie's highest on my stink list. One or two more series like this, and Uribe should get the nod.

Uribe's Compadres!

Willie is willie, a guy that can cause havoc on the basepaths...that one time out of four he is on base. It's looking more and more like he isn't a starter in this league.

jeremyb1
04-23-2004, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by mweflen
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not that high on Schoney yet... but seems to me E-Lo had some pretty awful seasons before last year, too...

True but Loaiza had much better peripheral numbers than Schoeneweis and he's more the exception than the rule. It's hard to catch lightening in a bottle twice.

bc2k
04-23-2004, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
Rowand sucks too you know

Uh, ARow's batting average is .289 to joey's .208 (HIS HIGHEST MARK OF THE SEASON!). Rowand's OBP is 65 points higher; SLG is 239 points higher! And for a guy who supposedly can't walk, Crede only has 1 more than ARow in 15 more at bats; Crede only has 1 more rbi than ARow; same amount of home runs; AROW is leading in doubles 5 to 1; Rowand's OPS is .920 to joe's .615.

On the defensive side of the ball, ARow has undoubtedly played better than Crede. I don't know how many errors Crede has been credited with, but he definately has thrown many a ball off target this season. I don't know how this guy got a reputation as a great defender in the minors. I'll take Aramis Ramirez's leather over this clown.

Count me in as the charter member of joe's foes. Tag coming soon...

Railsplitter
04-23-2004, 08:36 AM
How long before we see abanner reading "Schoe Time!" ?

sas1974
04-23-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
1) He shouldn't be going much further than 90 pitches. He tires between 90 and 100 and starts leaving the ball up a bit.

All great points. I couldn't and didn't say it better myself. To speak to #1 one though, this could be due in large part to not starting in 2 years. Perhaps once he gets stretched out, he'll be able to remain effective in the very low 100's.

wdelaney72
04-23-2004, 09:14 AM
I'll eat my foot on this one as well. It may be early, but he's been the most consistent starter thus far. I'm amazed.

As long as Koch is on the roster, we have a whipping boy.

Realist
04-23-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
I have seen both of his starts, and was at tonights. Here's my conclusions so far.

1) He shouldn't be going much further than 90 pitches. He tires between 90 and 100 and starts leaving the ball up a bit.

2) He moves the ball around very well and has a deceptive motion

3) He keeps very good hitters off balance, not know what is coming

4) He doesn't mind going deep into counts, and he doesn't mind walking good hitters - he seems to refuse to throw the ole "get it over" fastball that usually gets killed

5) He changes speeds really well with everything he throws

Great job by KW to move him back to the rotation from the pen. Nice coaching by Coop and Oz. He makes a very solid #3/#4 along with Garland behind our #1/#2 punch of Loaiza and Buehrle. The rotation is a lot better than most people expected it to be at the beginning of the season; largely due to Shoe.

Great summation of what he's been throwing. I see lots of movement and he's hitting all different areas of the strike zone. I'd hate to bat against him because you never know what angle the ball is coming from and how it's going to move. At the same time, you can bet it's at least gonna be close to the plate. Even the balls and walks he threw yesterday weren't really wildly out of the zone. It seemed like he was trying to get the Yankees to bite. He's very focused and seems to approach each batter like his life depends on it.

I'll have to take a pass on "eating any crow" though. I'm on record for expecting him to be this year's Loaiza. :smile:

Last year when Loaiza was pitching lights out in April I said, "Well, it is only April" and he kept up the good stuff for the vast majority of the season. The situation is very similar with Schoenweis this year. He's knocking 'em dead in April. I'd love to see him in a battle for the Cy Young Award with Javier "Buzzsaw" Vasquez (Loaiza and Garland coming in 3rd and 4th would tickle me as well).

Go Sox!!
:)

DSpivack
04-23-2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Realist
The situation is very similar with Schoenweis this year. He's knocking 'em dead in April. I'd love to see him in a battle for the Cy Young Award with Javier "Buzzsaw" Vasquez (Loaiza and Garland coming in 3rd and 4th would tickle me as well).

Go Sox!!
:)

Should this not be in pink?

bobj4400
04-23-2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
I'll take Aramis Ramirez's leather over this clown.


You are kidding I hope. Ramirez is a butcher and Crede for all his offensive woes, he works 3rd base beautifully.

Tekijawa
04-23-2004, 12:01 PM
I admit... I might have been wrong with this guy... Good Job so far Scottie!

The only problem now is if he does start doin gpoor again is that I'll hate him twice as much... I hope he realizes that! :D:

kermittheefrog
04-23-2004, 01:01 PM
I'm not ready to place my full confidence in Schoeneweis. He has struck out seven batters in 19 innings. Thats the kind of thing that catches up to you. And he's walked nine. I'm a little worried about his ability to keep runners off the bases. On the bright side, he is a groundball pitcher and has been able to induce some double plays and doesn't allow very many home runs. I'd say the early results are more mixed than you guys are calling them.

34 Inch Stick
04-23-2004, 01:03 PM
I am thrilled with what SS has done this year. It does not seem like a fluke either. He is not getting hit hard (few hits at all really) and is not the recipient of outstanding defense.

All this being said, I don't think I will ever feel comfortable going into a game with him as the starting pitcher.

Konerko05
04-23-2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I don't know how many errors Crede has been credited with, but he definately has thrown many a ball off target this season. I don't know how this guy got a reputation as a great defender in the minors. I'll take Aramis Ramirez's leather over this clown.

What the hell are you talking about? You lost all credibility in any argument with a statement like that.

kermittheefrog
04-23-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Konerko05
What the hell are you talking about? You lost all credibility in any argument with a statement like that.

Ask him how he feels about Frank Thomas.

WinningUgly!
04-23-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I'll take Aramis Ramirez's leather over this clown.
C'mon! Anybody that makes a statement like this is in absolutely no position to be referring to anyone as "clown".

:)

pudge
04-23-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'm not ready to place my full confidence in Schoeneweis. He has struck out seven batters in 19 innings. Thats the kind of thing that catches up to you. And he's walked nine. I'm a little worried about his ability to keep runners off the bases. On the bright side, he is a groundball pitcher and has been able to induce some double plays and doesn't allow very many home runs. I'd say the early results are more mixed than you guys are calling them.

Great analysis as usual Kermit... I love how people go up and down so quickly around here... It's been 3 friggin starts for Schoe, two of them against a slumping Yankees team with lots of switch & left-handed hitters... I dunno, Schoe is far from being out of the woods...

delben91
04-23-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by bc2k

On the defensive side of the ball, ARow has undoubtedly played better than Crede. I don't know how many errors Crede has been credited with, but he definately has thrown many a ball off target this season. I don't know how this guy got a reputation as a great defender in the minors. I'll take Aramis Ramirez's leather over this clown.

Count me in as the charter member of joe's foes. Tag coming soon...

Whoa, I can remember just off the top of my head about 8 fantastic plays Crede has made in the field this season. Granted he's thrown a decent number of balls in the dirt, but more often than not that's after making a diving stab to steal extra bases from someone. He has been atrocious at the plate, but he definitely hasn't carried it out onto the field with him.

delben91
04-23-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'm not ready to place my full confidence in Schoeneweis. He has struck out seven batters in 19 innings. Thats the kind of thing that catches up to you. And he's walked nine. I'm a little worried about his ability to keep runners off the bases. On the bright side, he is a groundball pitcher and has been able to induce some double plays and doesn't allow very many home runs. I'd say the early results are more mixed than you guys are calling them.

I agree with what you're saying there kermit. I can say that my excitement over Schoeneweis' pitching, while perhaps only average to good is that I was counting on him being bad to horrendous. So average looks pretty damn impressive.

SoxxoS
04-23-2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'm not ready to place my full confidence in Schoeneweis. He has struck out seven batters in 19 innings. Thats the kind of thing that catches up to you. And he's walked nine. I'm a little worried about his ability to keep runners off the bases. On the bright side, he is a groundball pitcher and has been able to induce some double plays and doesn't allow very many home runs. I'd say the early results are more mixed than you guys are calling them.

So you are saying he's the lefty Jon Garland?

BeerHandle
04-23-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Scott Schoeneweis has thoroughly impressed myself and all of the other members of Schoe's Foes. His awful spring training was an abberration. He is going to be a solid part of our staff. 2-1 including 2 quality starts against the yanks?? I'll take that any day. Props to Kenny Williams on this one and also to Coop, Ozzie and the man himself, Scott Schoeneweis.

I wasn't that worried in Spring because he wasn't using his full arsenal. He does look great. Now, if we can get a 5th.

minastirith67
04-23-2004, 03:27 PM
Well that's what you get for basing your perceptions of Schoeneweis on spring training. I guess the lesson to be learned here is that ST means absolutely jack as an indication of future success during the regular season. Hopefully those of the former member of "Schoe's Foes" know this. I think having a whipping boy for the sake of a whipping boy is a low blow.


Also, bc2k makes some of the most ludicrous comments I've ever seen on this site. Is there any way to block his posts or ignore him? Must be a Cub fan in disguise. :?:

kermittheefrog
04-23-2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
So you are saying he's the lefty Jon Garland?

Pretty much but I expect Schoeneweis to allow fewer homers and strike out fewer hitters.

jabrch
04-23-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Uh, ARow's batting average is .289 to joey's .208 (HIS HIGHEST MARK OF THE SEASON!). Rowand's OBP is 65 points higher; SLG is 239 points higher! And for a guy who supposedly can't walk, Crede only has 1 more than ARow in 15 more at bats; Crede only has 1 more rbi than ARow; same amount of home runs; AROW is leading in doubles 5 to 1; Rowand's OPS is .920 to joe's .615.

On the defensive side of the ball, ARow has undoubtedly played better than Crede. I don't know how many errors Crede has been credited with, but he definately has thrown many a ball off target this season. I don't know how this guy got a reputation as a great defender in the minors. I'll take Aramis Ramirez's leather over this clown.

Count me in as the charter member of joe's foes. Tag coming soon...

Are you serious?