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gosox41
04-22-2004, 07:30 AM
According to today's Trib:

"I'm happy with what I have. If somebody gets hurt, Wunsch will be the man."

Looks like Kelly isn't going to be up here anytime soon. Maybe there's a trade in the works and Kelly will get brought up at some point soon.


Bob

sas1974
04-22-2004, 08:15 AM
I guess Ozzie is subscribing to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought on this one. The question that I have is: "Who said it ain't broke?"

I am also not sure how this one is going to sit with Wunsch. This is going to be interesting. For the record, I think that Kelly should get in a few more innings in Charlotte anyway.

voodoochile
04-22-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
I guess Ozzie is subscribing to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought on this one. The question that I have is: "Who said it ain't broke?"

I am also not sure how this one is going to sit with Wunsch. This is going to be interesting. For the record, I think that Kelly should get in a few more innings in Charlotte anyway.

What has Cotts done that is so spectacular to force Wunsch to stay in Charlotte?

Hokiesox
04-22-2004, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
What has Cotts done that is so spectacular to force Wunsch to stay in Charlotte?

Change the C into a K, and the tts into a ch, and I'm all for it. 6 million or no 6 million.

sas1974
04-22-2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
What has Cotts done that is so spectacular to force Wunsch to stay in Charlotte?

I didn't say anything about Cotts.

soxtalker
04-22-2004, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
I guess Ozzie is subscribing to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought on this one. The question that I have is: "Who said it ain't broke?"


I don't think that I'd read it quite that way. Ozzie has shown that he likes to give players a chance and not base his decisions on just two or three games. It doesn't mean that he isn't forming opinions. Just give him another couple of weeks.

jeremyb1
04-22-2004, 10:02 AM
Is Ozzie serious? You can't keep your third best reliever being paid the fourth most money in your pen in Charlotte because mediocre pitches have had a few good innings.

Mickster
04-22-2004, 10:08 AM
I was going to post this in a new thread - maybe it deserves one - but George Offman was on the Score this morning indicating that Wuncsh is being shopped for a left-handed bat off the bench.

Said that there were a few NL and AL teams interested and that the word in the inside is that we will see Kelly in a new uniform before seeing him in pin-stripes this year.

I think KW hand-cuffed himself by signing Shingo. We really don't need 3 leftys out of the pen and all indication are that we will be cutting the pen down to 11 at some point in the year. Thing is, I would much rather have Wunsch than Shingo in the pen along with Marte, but letting Shingo go would make KW look like the ass that he really is.... :(:

KingXerxes
04-22-2004, 10:08 AM
I seriously hope that Guillen was simply shooting his mouth off. Tell me you wouldn't rather have Wunsch in the bullpen over Shingo.

KingXerxes
04-22-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Mickster
Thing is, I would much rather have Wunsch than Shingo in the pen along with Marte, but letting Shingo go would make KW look like the ass that he really is.... :(:

The best thing to do after making a mistake is to realize you've done such and then try and take measures to correct that mistake. If Shingo sticks around because KW doesn't want to be embarrassed then I'll laugh every time KW opens his mouth about "being a man" this or "being a man" that.

This is the same tactic he took benching Todd Ritchie so as not to lose 20 games. Hide the mistakes and hope they go away.

Mickster
04-22-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I seriously hope that Guillen was simply shooting his mouth off. Tell me you wouldn't rather have Wunsch in the bullpen over Shingo.

See my earlier post. :(:

jeremyb1
04-22-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Mickster
I was going to post this in a new thread - maybe it deserves one - but George Offman was on the Score this morning indicating that Wuncsh is being shopped for a left-handed bat off the bench.

Said that there were a few NL and AL teams interested and that the word in the inside is that we will see Kelly in a new uniform before seeing him in pin-stripes this year.

I think KW hand-cuffed himself by signing Shingo. We really don't need 3 leftys out of the pen and all indication are that we will be cutting the pen down to 11 at some point in the year. Thing is, I would much rather have Wunsch than Shingo in the pen along with Marte, but letting Shingo go would make KW look like the ass that he really is.... :(:

We don't even have a lefty specialist right now. Marte is a set up man and Cotts is the long reliever.

SoxxoS
04-22-2004, 10:13 AM
Cotts should be starting either in the majors or AAA, Danny Wright should be in the bullpen, and Kelly should be in the bullpen. Shingo can get out.

Mickster
04-22-2004, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Cotts should be starting either in the majors or AAA, Danny Wright should be in the bullpen, and Kelly should be in the bullpen. Shingo can get out.

Amen!

joecrede
04-22-2004, 11:06 AM
Takatsu and Wunsch are guys that are going to average less than an inning per appearance. You can't have both of them in the same bullpen. Since Wunsch has some trade value dealing him makes sense. I'm not absolving Williams of the Takatsu mistake though.

joecrede
04-22-2004, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
We don't even have a lefty specialist right now. Marte is a set up man and Cotts is the long reliever.

I think Cotts can be the long reliever and lefty specialist for the time being.

Mickster
04-22-2004, 11:20 AM
I really wouldn't mind Wunsch leaving so long as we sould package him, along with a few prospects say for... Vidro.

Or maybe starter.....

Why settle for LH Bat off the bench?

joecrede
04-22-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Mickster
Why settle for LH Bat off the bench?

Because that's about the going rate for a guy who pitches 35 innings a year.

Mickster
04-22-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
Because that's about the going rate for a guy who pitches 35 innings a year.

Agreed. But he was rated 3rd against lefties and 7th against righties in opposing BA last year. Package him with Borchard and let's see about getting a real player....

Lip Man 1
04-22-2004, 12:05 PM
Does anybody get the feeling that Wunsch has dropped into the same doghouse that Sean Lowe fell into?

Lip

Mickster
04-22-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Does anybody get the feeling that Wunsch has dropped into the same doghouse that Sean Lowe fell into?

Lip

Sean Lowe, Jon Rausch, .......... Once you're in, it's tough to get out!

steff
04-22-2004, 12:27 PM
Good grief... :(:

maurice
04-22-2004, 12:49 PM
Cotts has thrown 4.1 innings with a 0.00 ERA and had a pretty solid spring. He does fine when Alomar is not setting up just off the outside corner on a 3-0 pitch. I agree that he should switch spots with Wright for the time being.

BTW, I believe the reports that KW tried to trade Wunsch before his injury and that he may have been the target of KW's vague comment during spring training. He should have some trade value if he proves to be healthy, but cubbie-fan Offman probably has forgotten that the Sox already traded a reliever for a LH bat off the bench. If anything, the bench needs another RH IF better than Dransfeldt.

SoxxoS
04-22-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by maurice
BTW, I believe the reports that KW tried to trade Wunsch before his injury and that he may have been the target of KW's vague comment during spring training.

He was, for Mark Bellhorn.

wdelaney72
04-22-2004, 01:13 PM
Wunsch has been an effective pitcher when healthy, but that's the problem. When was the last time Kelly was healthy for a season? He's been fragile and unreliable.

If KW is shopping Wunsch, either Cotts or Marte would have to serve as Left Handed specialist. Marte is more of a setup guy or even closer. I personally would like Cotts in the rotation, but if we need a left-handed specialist he'll be the guy and maybe Adkins or Rauch will get a shot at starting.

Wunsch's trade value is minimal based on the very few innings he pitches.

OurBitchinMinny
04-22-2004, 01:53 PM
Our bullpen is so strong we can have wunsch in charlotte? The only guys in the pen that I like better than wunsch are polite and marte I guess, although marte is making me nervous this year. Send down cotts, wright, adkins, koch, whoever. Shingo is the one who should go down

pudge
04-22-2004, 02:05 PM
I disagree on Wunsch's value being small... good left-handed arms are not in abundance. Isn't Terry Friggin' Mulholland still in the MLB because of this fact?? I would agree with a previous poster that we should package Wunsch with someone else and get a real player. Vidro would rock. I wouldn't mind getting rid of Borchard, even if he does hit 30+ homers in the MLB someday, he'll also bat about .235 with 150+ K's.

voodoochile
04-22-2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
I didn't say anything about Cotts.

Sorry, I wasn't directing it at you per se. Just clicked the quote button. My implication was that Cotts would be the one to go down as "the other" lefty (the one not named Marte) and the one who has shown the least of all the bullpen pitchers so far this season, IMO.

I don't understand why Ozzie would rather have Cotts than Wunsch.

StockdaleForVeep
04-22-2004, 03:32 PM
god get off shingos back ok? Hes had 2 bad outings against the yankees, lets blast buehrle and run him out of town for givin up 7-8 runs in an innning

bafiarocks03
04-22-2004, 03:35 PM
i read that! i was like what!!! Kelly has to get back on the team!! i miss him!!!

sas1974
04-22-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Sorry, I wasn't directing it at you per se. Just clicked the quote button. My implication was that Cotts would be the one to go down as "the other" lefty (the one not named Marte) and the one who has shown the least of all the bullpen pitchers so far this season, IMO.

I don't understand why Ozzie would rather have Cotts than Wunsch.

I know what Ozzie has said about guys having a clean slate and that they would have to earn his trust and respect, but this might be taking it a bit far. I think Kelly has earned a spot on this team.

On the other hand, I don't want to see them send Cotts down. I would prefer that it be someone else, I am just not sure who that would be. I'd like it to be Shingo, but I don't think that's realistic at this point. I think Cotts, aside from a couple more walks than I would prefer, has done well w/ the limited action that he's seen. I would like him fill the type of role that Sean Lowe had until he can earn a spot in the rotation. Cotts is perfect on those nights that Scho or Wright blow up (let's hope that's not tonight). I also don't think it's all that bad to have 3 lefties in the pen when we have 3 righties in the starting rotation.

depy48
04-23-2004, 02:27 AM
I think Ozzie is a moron for not having Wunch on the roster. Wunch is efficient and effective. How many times will Wunch have to prove himself?
Let Cotts or Adkins get starts at the AAA level

batmanZoSo
04-23-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by depy48
I think Ozzie is a moron for not having Wunch on the roster. Wunch is efficient and effective. How many times will Wunch have to prove himself?
Let Cotts or Adkins get starts at the AAA level

::buzzer::

Sorry, Adkins has to justify the Durham trade. :smile:

lowesox
04-23-2004, 10:56 AM
This just pisses me off. I hate when politics affect who gets spots rather than performance. I would have expected more from Ozzie. Although, this is exactly what I expect of KW, who always puts his own reputation first. The sox continue to screw over good scrappy players who consistently perform. We did it with Graff in the offseason and Wunsch now. This is a guy whose been a consistent contributor to this team since 2000 (when I actually thought he was one of our MVPs). It's obvious based on performance Wunsch is a better choice than both Koch and Takatsu. And even if it means sending down Cotts or Adkins who have both been pretty good so far, we should do it - because by the end of the year Wunsch will outperform both of those guys too. Trading Wunsch would also be stupid because it's looking more and more like Marte is our new closer, so we'll need a situational lefty, and that's not going to be Cotts. The answer is simple Kenny: get over yourself and dump Takatsu.

SEALgep
04-23-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
This just pisses me off. I hate when politics affect who gets spots rather than performance. I would have expected more from Ozzie. Although, this is exactly what I expect of KW, who always puts his own reputation first. The sox continue to screw over good scrappy players who consistently perform. We did it with Graff in the offseason and Wunsch now. This is a guy whose been a consistent contributor to this team since 2000 (when I actually thought he was one of our MVPs). It's obvious based on performance Wunsch is a better choice than both Koch and Takatsu. And even if it means sending down Cotts or Adkins who have both been pretty good so far, we should do it - because by the end of the year Wunsch will outperform both of those guys too. Trading Wunsch would also be stupid because it's looking more and more like Marte is our new closer, so we'll need a situational lefty, and that's not going to be Cotts. The answer is simple Kenny: get over yourself and dump Takatsu. If you're talking about situational lefties for next year, Ryan Meaux seems like a better choice anyway.

nodiggity59
04-23-2004, 11:33 AM
I think we'd be fine if we dumped Wunsch with a prospect for a decent 2B or some kind of help with the Wright situation.

What if we package Wunsch, Borchard, and Harris for Vidro?

akingamongstmen
04-23-2004, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
This just pisses me off. I hate when politics affect who gets spots rather than performance. I would have expected more from Ozzie. Although, this is exactly what I expect of KW, who always puts his own reputation first. The sox continue to screw over good scrappy players who consistently perform. We did it with Graff in the offseason and Wunsch now. This is a guy whose been a consistent contributor to this team since 2000 (when I actually thought he was one of our MVPs). It's obvious based on performance Wunsch is a better choice than both Koch and Takatsu. And even if it means sending down Cotts or Adkins who have both been pretty good so far, we should do it - because by the end of the year Wunsch will outperform both of those guys too. Trading Wunsch would also be stupid because it's looking more and more like Marte is our new closer, so we'll need a situational lefty, and that's not going to be Cotts. The answer is simple Kenny: get over yourself and dump Takatsu.

I'm still not convinced that Takatsu is hurting this team. He could potentially be an effective situational righty. The problem (obviously) is Koch. I like Billy's intensity, and that he has never blamed anybody but himself for his failings, but he's killing our bullpen. He really has nothing to offer out there. I feel that Koch needs to move on for the good of everybody involved. That would open up a spot for the massively underrated Wunsch.

lowesox
04-23-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
If you're talking about situational lefties for next year, Ryan Meaux seems like a better choice anyway.

Sure, he has the potential to be good. But Wunsch is good. Period. And not even really all that expensive. It's that whole thing about prospects being suspects, and why not equip yourself to win now.

lowesox
04-23-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by nodiggity59
I think we'd be fine if we dumped Wunsch with a prospect for a decent 2B or some kind of help with the Wright situation.

What if we package Wunsch, Borchard, and Harris for Vidro?

I'm not sure why you put that in teal. But for the record, if we were going to include Wunsch and get a guy like Vidro in return then I could see doing it. Otherwise, if it's just a one for one swap, I suspect we'll get nowhere near what his value should be, based on what he could bring to this team.

lowesox
04-23-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by akingamongstmen
I'm still not convinced that Takatsu is hurting this team.

No Takatsu isn't hurting the team. But that's only because he hasn't been able to earn Ozzie's confidence. As a result, we're using him in situations where nothing's at stake. With Wunsch, we could use him in important situations.

I'm not a huge Koch fan either, but at least at one point he proved he could be a good Major League pitcher. Takatsu never has.