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jlh0023
04-21-2004, 01:44 PM
I've heard a few lately, mostly involving the Dodgers. It seems that we are going for Guillermo Mota (love to get him) and Odalis Perez (not the best starter, but could still be #1,2, or 3 in are rotation) for a combination of either Koch (dumping his $6 million contract could allow us to make good second half trades this year), Konerko (has been playing strong, but we need to give something to get something) and maybe Rowand (with Timo playing well he could become expendible). I don't know if i fully support the deal, depending on the details, but if anyone has any info about it, or opinions related to it, i'd be curious to hear.

RichFitztightly
04-21-2004, 01:48 PM
Re-visiting this old trade, I'd still go for it now. Trade Paulie and Krotch now and get Perez and Mota. Even better if it's Koch and Rowand. However, I don't see this rumor coming true.

jabrch
04-21-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023
I've heard a few lately, mostly involving the Dodgers. It seems that we are going for Guillermo Mota (love to get him) and Odalis Perez (not the best starter, but could still be #1,2, or 3 in are rotation) for a combination of either Koch (dumping his $6 million contract could allow us to make good second half trades this year), Konerko (has been playing strong, but we need to give something to get something) and maybe Rowand (with Timo playing well he could become expendible). I don't know if i fully support the deal, depending on the details, but if anyone has any info about it, or opinions related to it, i'd be curious to hear.

Assuming Frank is healthy, I have no problem moving Gload to 1B and trading PK. I'd still be shocked to see the dodgers take on that deal, cuz it escalates if he is traded from a bad deal to a worse one. If we could get Mota and Perez, and unload Koch and Konerko, I'd be fine with that. I am not sure why the Dodgers would want Rowand, they don't have a place to play him. But I could live without him for that deal. Perez could be out 5th starter, Wright could go back to the pen, Mota could set up, or who knows - maybe close. We'd cut payroll significantly and maybe be able to use that payroll space to acquire something as the season goes further.

nodiggity59
04-21-2004, 01:50 PM
I don't see LA taking Koch's contract. Paulie's maybe, but not Koch's.

Where have you heard this stuff from?

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by nodiggity59
I don't see LA taking Koch's contract. Paulie's maybe, but not Koch's.

Where have you heard this stuff from? Maybe it would be worth it to them knowing his deal expires after this year anyway.

Randar68
04-21-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by nodiggity59
I don't see LA taking Koch's contract. Paulie's maybe, but not Koch's.

Where have you heard this stuff from?

Don't both of their contracts expire after this season?

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Don't both of their contracts expire after this season? I think Paulie's is after next year.

nodiggity59
04-21-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Don't both of their contracts expire after this season?

Koch's does but we don't want to pay him that for a whole season why would they for half of one?

CHISOXFAN13
04-21-2004, 02:05 PM
Few things here that are obviously wrong with this whole thread.

First, the Dodgers are 9-4 and their offense has been pretty good so far.

Secondly, why would they trade a middle reliever with a 0.00 ERA in seven gamesand a starter who is 1-1 with an ERA os 3.20 with 22 Ks in 19 innings for basically nothing in return.

Shawn Green is playing first base, so where would Konerko play? The Dodgers just traded for Milton Bradley and already have Dave Roberts and Juan Encarnacion.

Here we go with the Internet message board trade rumors again, I guess.

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 02:08 PM
Another aspect of this deal is that it sounds like we would be saving some money for a possible Magg's extension. I think Gload can do the job, he looks good and KW said he is a defensive first baseman machine. Personally I would like to keep Rowand, at least as a fourth outfielder. However, I do think he has a good attitude, I doubt he would care for yet another demotion for Reed (who appears ready whenever we desire.) I like our guys, but the deal seems to make sense. Mota is very solid, and Perez looks good with hopefully more upside for switching leagues. These players are under one year contracts though (I think both are arbitration eligible) which is good for payroll flexibility, but bad if they perform well and we lose them to FA.

nodiggity59
04-21-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Few things here that are obviously wrong with this whole thread.

First, the Dodgers are 9-4 and their offense has been pretty good so far.

Secondly, why would they trade a middle reliever with a 0.00 ERA in seven gamesand a starter who is 1-1 with an ERA os 3.20 with 22 Ks in 19 innings for basically nothing in return.

Shawn Green is playing first base, so where would Konerko play? The Dodgers just traded for Milton Bradley and already have Dave Roberts and Juan Encarnacion.

Here we go with the Internet message board trade rumors again, I guess.

Agreed. Perfect Post. Flawless Victory.

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Few things here that are obviously wrong with this whole thread.

First, the Dodgers are 9-4 and their offense has been pretty good so far.

Secondly, why would they trade a middle reliever with a 0.00 ERA in seven gamesand a starter who is 1-1 with an ERA os 3.20 with 22 Ks in 19 innings for basically nothing in return.

Shawn Green is playing first base, so where would Konerko play? The Dodgers just traded for Milton Bradley and already have Dave Roberts and Juan Encarnacion.

Here we go with the Internet message board trade rumors again, I guess. It may be garbage, but it certainly is possible. Green could move back into right where he prefers, and they can trade Juan or Roberts, or just keep Roberts as a fourth outfielder. They have some offense going right now, but history tells us Lo Duca isn't going to bat .512 for the rest of the season. Bradley will help a lot, but Konerko would give them an upgrade while also possibly helping Green more by allowing to find comfort in his defensive preference.

EDIT- Don't forget the Dodgers don't have Perez as part of their future plans. They have lots of starting pitching with talent, and Perez and the Dodgers aren't on the best of terms. They consider him a club house cancer, but the fact is the guy is good and couldn't afford to just let him walk with nothing in return. Hence why they signed him and have talked trades with people always throwing his name around.

soxfan26
04-21-2004, 02:13 PM
We spent the entire offseason talking about this trade rumor. It's not going to happen.

CHISOXFAN13
04-21-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
It may be garbage, but it certainly is possible. Green could move back into right where he prefers, and they can trade Juan or Roberts, or just keep Roberts as a fourth outfielder. They have some offense going right now, but history tells us Lo Duca isn't going to bat .512 for the rest of the season. Bradley will help a lot, but Konerko would give them an upgrade while also possibly helping Green more by allowing to find comfort in his defensive preference.

Part of the reason Green is at first is because he has injury problems.

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Part of the reason Green is at first is because he has injury problems. If they had a first baseman he would no doubt be in right. They tried to trade for one and were unsuccessful, with Sexson being one of the guys they went after. He does have injury concerns, but he wanted to be in right and would have started that if they had a legit first base option. Konerko could be that option.

soxtalker
04-21-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
We spent the entire offseason talking about this trade rumor. It's not going to happen.

I don't know if it is likely, but it is curious that the rumor is still out there. The Dodgers had a difficult time making much in the way of trades during the off season, because of their ownership and GM changes. So, maybe they could be interested in filling holes after the new GM has had a chance to survey things.

It is interesting that the players on both teams that are highlighted in the rumors are playing well. Koch is probably the only one whose play is uneven. (Many on this board would say "bad" instead of "uneven", but he's had some good outings.)

One more thought. People have assumed that the Dodgers would pick up the full price of the Konerko and Kock contracts, but is that necessarily true. I don't know what the cost of the two Dodgers pitchers would be.

wdelaney72
04-21-2004, 02:47 PM
Koch sucks. Every GM in baseball knows that. The only way Kenny can get rid of Koch is to eat his salary.

Period.

JRIG
04-21-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
Koch sucks. Every GM in baseball knows that.

:KW
"When did this happen?"

jeremyb1
04-21-2004, 02:53 PM
Its hard for me to believe DePo would have any interest in any of those moves.

ma-gaga
04-21-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
Koch sucks. Every GM in baseball knows that. The only way Kenny can get rid of Koch is to eat his salary.

Period.


Originally posted by jeremyb1
Its hard for me to believe DePo would have any interest in any of those moves.

Here's the crux. Koch might be effective in the NL in that park, but unfortunately KW will have to eat salary if he wants to move him. Unless you take back a bad contract, like Dreifort.

heh. That's almost funny. I could see that happening. uh oh.

I just love the 'quote multiple function'

bennyw41
04-21-2004, 03:25 PM
Can the originator of this post elude to his sources, or to where he gets any of this?

longshot7
04-21-2004, 04:10 PM
Again, this thing is deader than a doornail. the Dodgers don't need a first baseman now - and Perez is in their plans. SEAL, I have no idea where you get your info on this stuff. Evans may have been dumb enough to pull this trade off, but DePodesta is not.

jlh0023
04-21-2004, 04:11 PM
I started this post, and my sources are not very reliable....I had this rumor again last week, and was merely wondering if anybody else knew more about it's likelyhood or details. I am not by any means saying this is a serious possibility.

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
Again, this thing is deader than a doornail. the Dodgers don't need a first baseman now - and Perez is in their plans. SEAL, I have no idea where you get your info on this stuff. Evans may have been dumb enough to pull this trade off, but DePodesta is not. Where do you get your information from? If Perez was part of their future plans, why didn't they lock him up. They signed him to a one year deal and tried to trade him to several other teams besides us. Dodgers need an outfielder besides Roberts, and Green would be better off filling that role back in right where he prefers. They tried getting a first baseman all offseason but failed to do so. Green can play first, but even they realize they're better off with a legit first baseman. I'm not saying this trade is going to happen, but I don't understand how you can't even consider it a possibility based on your reasoning.

havelj
04-21-2004, 06:27 PM
Quote a source - other than that, I don't want to hear about rumors.

longshot7
04-21-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Where do you get your information from? If Perez was part of their future plans, why didn't they lock him up. They signed him to a one year deal and tried to trade him to several other teams besides us. Dodgers need an outfielder besides Roberts, and Green would be better off filling that role back in right where he prefers. They tried getting a first baseman all offseason but failed to do so. Green can play first, but even they realize they're better off with a legit first baseman. I'm not saying this trade is going to happen, but I don't understand how you can't even consider it a possibility based on your reasoning.

I read the LA Times daily, I watch Dodger games almost daily, I listen to LA Sports Radio - is that enough?

I'm not saying your reasoning is bad - Roberts does suck - but there are no rumors going around anywhere about any Dodger trades - I would have heard them. I just think you're assuming that they're trying to trade Perez to deal with their Roberts problem rather than having evidence that they actually are.

I would be exploring trades, but that doesn't mean it's actually happening. Evans wanted to trade Perez, but DePodesta has made no indication that he feels the same. He's not an idiot like Evans.

Chisoxfn
04-21-2004, 07:11 PM
Sign me up. Sox lose Koch, Konerko and Rowand and get Perez and Mota in return.

Wow, that would be just fine in my book. Not only do the Sox save money, which means they can lock Maggs up, but they have Gload who can step in and play first (i'm a big Gload fan) and then Reed can come up and play center and you can eventually insert him in the 2 hole.

Mota and Marte split closer duties, both are studs and Perez replaces Wright who shifts to the pen or somewhere else.

Chisoxfn
04-21-2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
I read the LA Times daily, I watch Dodger games almost daily, I listen to LA Sports Radio - is that enough?

I'm not saying your reasoning is bad - Roberts does suck - but there are no rumors going around anywhere about any Dodger trades - I would have heard them. I just think you're assuming that they're trying to trade Perez to deal with their Roberts problem rather than having evidence that they actually are.

I would be exploring trades, but that doesn't mean it's actually happening. Evans wanted to trade Perez, but DePodesta has made no indication that he feels the same. He's not an idiot like Evans.

Ditto what LongShot said. I'm also out in this area and I haven't heard a thing about Dodger trades. To be honest, I think the Dodgers are more worried about their pitching then their hitting and moving Perez and Mota doesn't exactly help their pitching staff.

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
I read the LA Times daily, I watch Dodger games almost daily, I listen to LA Sports Radio - is that enough?

I'm not saying your reasoning is bad - Roberts does suck - but there are no rumors going around anywhere about any Dodger trades - I would have heard them. I just think you're assuming that they're trying to trade Perez to deal with their Roberts problem rather than having evidence that they actually are.

I would be exploring trades, but that doesn't mean it's actually happening. Evans wanted to trade Perez, but DePodesta has made no indication that he feels the same. He's not an idiot like Evans. Then that's where our communication broke down. I was merely speaking hypothetically, I wasn't trying to insinuate that this was the way they were thinking or that this rumor had any merit. I apologize if you thought that was what I meant. I was just trying to point how it would make sense if it were true.

Whitesox029
04-21-2004, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023
I've heard a few lately, mostly involving the Dodgers. It seems that we are going for Guillermo Mota (love to get him) and Odalis Perez (not the best starter, but could still be #1,2, or 3 in are rotation) for a combination of either Koch (dumping his $6 million contract could allow us to make good second half trades this year), Konerko (has been playing strong, but we need to give something to get something) and maybe Rowand (with Timo playing well he could become expendible). I don't know if i fully support the deal, depending on the details, but if anyone has any info about it, or opinions related to it, i'd be curious to hear.
I have serious reservations about two things here:
1.) Trading Konerko. No matter how much some Sox fans hate him (why, I don't know), he is a great hitter and an asset to the clubhouse.
2.) Trading Konerko for a less than ABSOLUTELY LIGHTS OUT bullpen man. I don't want anyone who's ever had any trouble in the pen, because those troubles will undoubtedly be magnified when he puts on that Sox uniform. Koch has been a disaster, and unless we can acquire a lights-out, no-chance, game-over #1 premier top closer, I would not trade anyone out of our lineup. Do we really want to mess with what we have in the lineup? It's the most dangerous one in the division, and among the top 3 in the AL in my opinion along with Boston and New York.

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
I have serious reservations about two things here:
1.) Trading Konerko. No matter how much some Sox fans hate him (why, I don't know), he is a great hitter and an asset to the clubhouse.
2.) Trading Konerko for a less than ABSOLUTELY LIGHTS OUT bullpen man. I don't want anyone who's ever had any trouble in the pen, because those troubles will undoubtedly be magnified when he puts on that Sox uniform. Koch has been a disaster, and unless we can acquire a lights-out, no-chance, game-over #1 premier top closer, I would not trade anyone out of our lineup. Do we really want to mess with what we have in the lineup? It's the most dangerous one in the division, and among the top 3 in the AL in my opinion along with Boston and New York. I hear what you're saying, but Gload appears to have a dangerous bat as well, and is considered a very fine first baseman.

Chisoxfn
04-21-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I hear what you're saying, but Gload appears to have a dangerous bat as well, and is considered a very fine first baseman.

Agreed, I am of the belief that if Gload was a little taller, he would of been in the majors a long time ago. He has a very short, quick swing that has power to all parts of the field. He also has very good speed for a first baseman and a smooth glove.

Gload is one of my personal favorites on the Sox. :D:

Whitesox029
04-21-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I hear what you're saying, but Gload appears to have a dangerous bat as well, and is considered a very fine first baseman.
Remember that Mike Caruso hit .300 his first year up and then was history 3 years later. Joe Crede has been doing OK, but he's not quite what he was hyped up to be, and he's definitely no Ventura. I've said it to my family, I've said it to my friends, I've said it to J Hood on the Score, I've said it to you guys, and I'll say it once more: You cannot count on young guys to be a perfect replacement every time! Don't get me wrong, I really like Gload, but Konerko is a proven vetaran with experience. Even if Gload does step up and become a Konerko-caliber hitter, he's still going to have to make mistakes and learn from them, mistakes Paulie has already made and learned from.

jlh0023
04-21-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
I have serious reservations about two things here:
1.) Trading Konerko. No matter how much some Sox fans hate him (why, I don't know), he is a great hitter and an asset to the clubhouse.
2.) Trading Konerko for a less than ABSOLUTELY LIGHTS OUT bullpen man. I don't want anyone who's ever had any trouble in the pen, because those troubles will undoubtedly be magnified when he puts on that Sox uniform. Koch has been a disaster, and unless we can acquire a lights-out, no-chance, game-over #1 premier top closer, I would not trade anyone out of our lineup. Do we really want to mess with what we have in the lineup? It's the most dangerous one in the division, and among the top 3 in the AL in my opinion along with Boston and New York.

You're logic makes no sense. I don't think Paulie is underated, i think sox fans understand he had a bad year last year, and has corrected his mistakes, and is an asset to our team. But Gload has been good, and sometimes you have to give in order to get.

Also your logic on Koch is ridiculous. The fact that he is a disaster should mean that we ask less for him, not more.... Mota is a very solid set-up man, and we can decide who to move to closer, but Koch's performance should not make you ask more for him in a trade. I'll take Mota and 6 million dollars any day.

By the way, does anybody know the contract status on Mota or Perez?

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
Remember that Mike Caruso hit .300 his first year up and then was history 3 years later. Joe Crede has been doing OK, but he's not quite what he was hyped up to be, and he's definitely no Ventura. I've said it to my family, I've said it to my friends, I've said it to J Hood on the Score, I've said it to you guys, and I'll say it once more: You cannot count on young guys to be a perfect replacement every time! Don't get me wrong, I really like Gload, but Konerko is a proven vetaran with experience. Even if Gload does step up and become a Konerko-caliber hitter, he's still going to have to make mistakes and learn from them, mistakes Paulie has already made and learned from. I like PK a lot and have no desire to trade him for nothing. However, even he makes these so called mistakes and has bad streaks. Last season in particular. Obviously he has rebounded, and I predicted he would. PK is a very good hitter, but he isn't irreplacable. Keep in mind, Gload isn't some one hit wonder. He's proven throughout the minors that he can well over several seasons. His defense is certainly above average defensively and so far so good in hitting in the majors. I personally see him continuing to stand out.

SEALgep
04-21-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023


By the way, does anybody know the contract status on Mota or Perez? Both are under one year deals, I think Perez is making about $4 million. I think both are arbitration eligible.

batmanZoSo
04-21-2004, 10:28 PM
Trades are pretty rare in April and May. But the fact that Koch's contract expires and Konerko's solid hitting makes them work in a trade package to a team (like the Dodgers) that really needs hitting.

mdep524
04-21-2004, 11:22 PM
Though I think this rumor is higly dubious, in general I am all for trading Konerko, or even Caballo. I like both of those guys but the fact remains, as well as the Sox are hitting now they still are a glut of slow right handed all or nothing hitters. Ordonez-Thomas-Lee-Konerko. I wouldn't just drop one for the sake of change, but if we can get a good package of something we need- starting/relief pitcher, CF, 2B- I'm all for trading Konerko and putting Gload in at first base.

I also think a great move would be to cash in on Carlos' value and get a stud for him. Then we could lock up Maggs, and open an OF spot for Reed (or possibly Borchard, Sweeney or Anderson).

batmanZoSo
04-22-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
Though I think this rumor is higly dubious, in general I am all for trading Konerko, or even Caballo. I like both of those guys but the fact remains, as well as the Sox are hitting now they still are a glut of slow right handed all or nothing hitters. Ordonez-Thomas-Lee-Konerko. I wouldn't just drop one for the sake of change, but if we can get a good package of something we need- starting/relief pitcher, CF, 2B- I'm all for trading Konerko and putting Gload in at first base.

I also think a great move would be to cash in on Carlos' value and get a stud for him. Then we could lock up Maggs, and open an OF spot for Reed (or possibly Borchard, Sweeney or Anderson).

I agree on trading Carlos. He'll never be that great of a hitter. But he has that 'potential' you can sell in a trade because he's only 26 or 27. It makes sense because it allows us to sign Magglio and we have three stud outfield prospects waiting in line. Reed will be ready to play probably by this summer, surely next year barring a bust. With that switch you might not only save money but improve at the same time.

Get rid of Konerko and Valentin too. And from this point forward look for good defense, speed, and the ability to take walks. All you need are two or three guys that can hit home runs. We don't need 25 homers 1-8.

gosox41
04-22-2004, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I agree on trading Carlos. He'll never be that great of a hitter. But he has that 'potential' you can sell in a trade because he's only 26 or 27. It makes sense because it allows us to sign Magglio and we have three stud outfield prospects waiting in line. Reed will be ready to play probably by this summer, surely next year barring a bust. With that switch you might not only save money but improve at the same time.

Get rid of Konerko and Valentin too. And from this point forward look for good defense, speed, and the ability to take walks. All you need are two or three guys that can hit home runs. We don't need 25 homers 1-8.

PK would be the first everyday player I'd like to move in a trade, but Lee is high up on my list. I like Carlos, but if either one of those guys gets us another starter in Perez plus Mota I think you have to do it.

If Perez comes to the Sox, Wright could go where he belongs...the bullpen. He pitched well out of there last season.

This would be my bullpen then (in order of strength)
1. Marte
2. Mota
3. Politte
4. Wright
5. Cotts
6. Takatsu
7. Koch


Bob