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owensmouth
04-21-2004, 06:27 AM
I keep reading suggestions saying that the White Sox should encourage bars and taverns of one variety or another be built in the vicinity of US Cellular Field. That, so the presumption goes, will help to fill up the ballpark.

These people are of the opinion that what fills up Wrigley on game days is the availability of beer joints near the Cubs ballpark.
So if it works for the Cubs, it's bound to work for the Sox.

The availability of beer has not been a significant factor in my going to the ballpark since I was seventeen. Peters, Pizarro, Horlen and John were pitching for the Sox back then.

If you say that US Cellular Field sats at the corner of 35th and the Dan Ryan, what else is at that intersection?

NE - IIT
NW - Sox Parking lot
SW - US Cellular
SE - Whatever remains of slum housing

Now, what's around Wrigley? Apartments, multi-family dwellings

It's a totally different type of neighborhood.

McCuddy's was not the reason that people went to Comiskey Park.

Dodger Stadium is sorta like US Cellular. Very little walk in traffic. You know what's closest to Chavez Ravine? The Los Angeles Police Department Academy - some neighbor. And there's no el-subway to Dodger Stadium, but people drive there from all over LA County.

Anaheim Stadium, like both US Cellular and Dodger Stadium, sits in a parking lot. Yes, it's across the freeway from Disneyland. You know how many people travel from Disneyland to see the Angels? Zippo... that's why Disney sold the Angels.

Okay, so what do the Cubs, the Angels, the Dodgers, the Yankees, and all the other successful teams have that the White Sox don't have? Excitement, anticipation, warmth, a feeling that it's "our" team.

The Chicago White Sox need to redevelop their ties with the community. They have to go further out to encourage suburban Sox fans to participate regularly.

Putting up a tavern just isn't the answer.

Railsplitter
04-21-2004, 07:35 AM
Thanks for putting it into perspective. I think it's safe to say a good portion of Sox fans live outside the city, which make for long drives, often in heavy traffic. I remember one time taking as much time to go from 31st Street to 35th Street as it did coming from home to 31st.

I've been to the Dave and Buster's in Addison many times and I can't help but wonder if that's where Rheinny wanted to build the new park in the first place.

wdelaney72
04-21-2004, 07:51 AM
You have a great point about the neighborhood. Putting in bars is not the answer. Many on this board have agreed that the real answer is winning. And that's winning it all, on a consistent basis.

But, the Cell is the complete antithesis of Wrigley. I dislike the Cubs as much as the next Sox fan, but let's face facts. The Wrigleyville experience is a good time. It's fun to go hang out and knock down a few drinks after the game and look at woman dressed in skimpy outfits. (For the ladies, feel free to reverse the gender). The Cell has NOTHING. I definitely would not want Bridgeport to turn into Wrigleyville, but a few establishments would be nice.

I'm not saying I don't love the Cell. I do love the Cell. It is a great place to watch a game. I just think the experience outisde the park could be enhanced a bit.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
You have a great point about the neighborhood. Putting in bars is not the answer. Many on this board have agreed that the real answer is winning. And that's winning it all, on a consistent basis.

But, the Cell is the complete antithesis of Wrigley. I dislike the Cubs as much as the next Sox fan, but let's face facts. The Wrigleyville experience is a good time. It's fun to go hang out and knock down a few drinks after the game and look at woman dressed in skimpy outfits. (For the ladies, feel free to reverse the gender). The Cell has NOTHING. I definitely would not want Bridgeport to turn into Wrigleyville, but a few establishments would be nice.

I'm not saying I don't love the Cell. I do love the Cell. It is a great place to watch a game. I just think the experience outisde the park could be enhanced a bit.




I think this is probabaly the feeling most people have..I know I do. Back in October at a party I was bombarded with Cubs fans. We talked about the differences between the two teams and the coverage and admiration one gets over the other. To them it had to do with it just being a more fun atmosphere around Wrigley.

If people could remove the bias from there brains for second, think about it. It's a total social and entertainment experience. If your life doesn't revolve around baseball, but just having a good time, why wouldn't someone want to go to Wrigley, have a few brews before the game somewhere across the street, check out the women/men--whatever, go to the game, meet up with people after the game? It is appealing to a crowd, who has disposable income, so that's where they go.

Nowadays, not just in Chicago, but in other places as well, baseball games have become more than just going to the game. It's an entire entertainment experience. Where can you get the most bang for your buck? I'm not suggesting putting up a slew of bars either, but wdelaney...you have a point, the experience around the Cell needs to be enhanced.

Jerko
04-21-2004, 11:35 AM
I agree more can be done at the Cell, but on the other hand, I don't know what's so "fun" about the Wrigley "experience". Is it fun walking blocks and blocks to and from your car in the midst of drunken fools swearing, destroying things, and peeing all over the place? Is it fun to sit in stands full of 500 pound shirtless guys who think their team has sucked for 100 years because of a freakin goat? Is it fun sitting with fans who don't even like the other "fans" who have taken over their park, not because of baseball knowledge or loyalty, but because somebody told them it was 'cool'? Yes, the chicks are hot, but there are a lot of hotties at the Cell too, believe me, I check; it's just that they don't parade around half naked while the game is going on just to get their asses (literally) on TV. Yes, it's fun to sit in the sun on a nice day. Last time I checked the sun is out above the Cell too. I enjoy parking in the lot there, kickin back a few cold ones, going to the game on a nice day and WATCHING it, get up and get some food and do so comfortably, maybe hit the stadium club or bullpen bar afterwards, and go home. To me that's fun. Driving up north, parking behind some old lady's garage in a piss-srewn alley for 20 bucks, cramming yourself like a sardine into a crowded bar full of jerks 3 hours before the game and getting hammered, staggering to the game and getting hammered more, then getting hammered after the game to the point where I am more obnoxious than ever, I don't see the fun in that. And compound that by thousands and sit in the middle of it and that makes it worse.

Iwritecode
04-21-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by owensmouth
Okay, so what do the Cubs, the Angels, the Dodgers, the Yankees, and all the other successful teams have that the White Sox don't have?

How about winning seasons and competitive teams? The Yankees are obvious.

The Cubs came close last year and have even higher expectations this year.

The Angels went out and got guys like Vlad and Bartolo and their fans believe they can get to and go deep in the playoffs.

The Sox on the other hand, lost a bunch of players and hired a manager nobody knew what to expect from. Sox fans are just hoping to win enough games to be able to win the weakest division in the AL and hope they are hot going into the playoffs.

Some don't even expect that...

Iwritecode
04-21-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
I agree more can be done at the Cell, but on the other hand, I don't know what's so "fun" about the Wrigley "experience". Is it fun walking blocks and blocks to and from your car in the midst of drunken fools swearing, destroying things, and peeing all over the place? Is it fun to sit in stands full of 500 pound shirtless guys who think their team has sucked for 100 years because of a freakin goat? Is it fun sitting with fans who don't even like the other "fans" who have taken over their park, not because of baseball knowledge or loyalty, but because somebody told them it was 'cool'? Yes, the chicks are hot, but there are a lot of hotties at the Cell too, believe me, I check; it's just that they don't parade around half naked while the game is going on just to get their asses (literally) on TV. Yes, it's fun to sit in the sun on a nice day. Last time I checked the sun is out above the Cell too. I enjoy parking in the lot there, kickin back a few cold ones, going to the game on a nice day and WATCHING it, get up and get some food and do so comfortably, maybe hit the stadium club or bullpen bar afterwards, and go home. To me that's fun. Driving up north, parking behind some old lady's garage in a piss-srewn alley for 20 bucks, cramming yourself like a sardine into a crowded bar full of jerks 3 hours before the game and getting hammered, staggering to the game and getting hammered more, then getting hammered after the game to the point where I am more obnoxious than ever, I don't see the fun in that. And compound that by thousands and sit in the middle of it and that makes it worse.

What he said. :D:

Realist
04-21-2004, 11:43 AM
Good God. The last thing the world needs is another Wrigleyville. That being said, there is still plenty of room for improving the nitelife around Comiskey for post and pre game festivities before the neighborhood gets even close to being another Wrigleyville. Baseball has evolved into a total experience package and the White Sox have some catching up to do if the franchise is going to survive.

When I get my bar up and running by Comiskey Park I'm going to keep my responsibility to the established neighborhood my top priority. A neighborhood business should serve as an asset to the community. If any neighborhood associations or social groups wanted to use the space for meetings, I would offer it without charge and without hesitation.

The character and make up of Bridgeport, or any other part of the southside for that matter, could never allow itself to become a souless cess pool like Wrigleyville has become. Gentrification may have spread to Bridgeport and Bronzeville, but it will take thousands upon thousands of mopes from the northside, the northern suburbs, and Iowa to make the area as stupid as Wrigleyville and that ain't gonna happen.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
I agree more can be done at the Cell, but on the other hand, I don't know what's so "fun" about the Wrigley "experience". Is it fun walking blocks and blocks to and from your car in the midst of drunken fools swearing, destroying things, and peeing all over the place? Is it fun to sit in stands full of 500 pound shirtless guys who think their team has sucked for 100 years because of a freakin goat? Is it fun sitting with fans who don't even like the other "fans" who have taken over their park, not because of baseball knowledge or loyalty, but because somebody told them it was 'cool'? Yes, the chicks are hot, but there are a lot of hotties at the Cell too, believe me, I check; it's just that they don't parade around half naked while the game is going on just to get their asses (literally) on TV. Yes, it's fun to sit in the sun on a nice day. Last time I checked the sun is out above the Cell too. I enjoy parking in the lot there, kickin back a few cold ones, going to the game on a nice day and WATCHING it, get up and get some food and do so comfortably, maybe hit the stadium club or bullpen bar afterwards, and go home. To me that's fun. Driving up north, parking behind some old lady's garage in a piss-srewn alley for 20 bucks, cramming yourself like a sardine into a crowded bar full of jerks 3 hours before the game and getting hammered, staggering to the game and getting hammered more, then getting hammered after the game to the point where I am more obnoxious than ever, I don't see the fun in that. And compound that by thousands and sit in the middle of it and that makes it worse.


From a suburban viewpoint, I understand it and I don't know why it would be fun either. But I'm sure there are a great percentage of people who go to the games, who live in the city, take public transportation, cabs, whatever to get there. Of all the bad things you point out about crowds and parking and such...why do people go to bars/clubs, Navy Pier, Taste of Chicago and other festvals, etc....?? When you can just stay home, drink your own beer/wine etc, make your own food and jump on your own bed??( :D: )

Realist
04-21-2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
From a suburban viewpoint, I understand it and I don't know why it would be fun either. But I'm sure there are a great percentage of people who go to the games, who live in the city, take public transportation, cabs, whatever to get there. Of all the bad things you point out about crowds and parking and such...why do people go to bars/clubs, Navy Pier, Taste of Chicago and other festvals, etc....?? When you can just stay home, drink your own beer/wine etc, make your own food and jump on your own bed??( :D: )

Good point. Think of all the money Kilroy's and Bottom Up *shudder* wouldn't have made if I had been home jumping on my bed and I wasn't there every freakin' Friday nite for all those years. :D:

soxnut
04-21-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Realist
Good God. The last thing the world needs is another Wrigleyville. That being said, there is still plenty of room for improving the nitelife around Comiskey for post and pre game festivities before the neighborhood gets even close to being another Wrigleyville. Baseball has evolved into a total experience package and the White Sox have some catching up to do if the franchise is going to survive.

When I get my bar up and running by Comiskey Park I'm going to keep my responsibility to the established neighborhood my top priority. A neighborhood business should serve as an asset to the community. If any neighborhood associations or social groups wanted to use the space for meetings, I would offer it without charge and without hesitation.

The character and make up of Bridgeport, or any other part of the southside for that matter, could never allow itself to become a souless cess pool like Wrigleyville has become. Gentrification may have spread to Bridgeport and Bronzeville, but it will take thousands upon thousands of mopes from the northside, the northern suburbs, and Iowa to make the area as stupid as Wrigleyville and that ain't gonna happen.



Well I agree, and I thinkyour idea isthe right thing to do in the area. And as we have both stated, going to a ballgame is a total entertainment experience.

As for your idea of an establishment, maybe you could purchase the New Style Shade Co. building. It is a good size and has parking. It's right on the west side of the viaduct, near the Sox parking lot.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Realist
Good point. Think of all the money Kilroy's and Bottom Up *shudder* wouldn't have made if I had been home jumping on my bed and I wasn't there every freakin' Friday nite for all those years. :D:


:D: LOL

You know, for the 5 years I'v lived in Lansing, I think I've been to those places only a handful of times.

Realist
04-21-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
Well I agree, and I thinkyour idea isthe right thing to do in the area. And as we have both stated, going to a ballgame is a total entertainment experience.

As for your idea of an establishment, maybe you could purchase the New Style Shade Co. building. It is a good size and has parking. It's right on the west side of the viaduct, near the Sox parking lot.

I would rather find something with an established liquor license, but I'm keeping an open mind. Daley and Martis (liquor commissioner for Chicago) make you jump through flaming hoops if you want to a bar in Chicago. An established liquor license cuts down on the number of hoops.

Fridaythe13thJason
04-21-2004, 12:04 PM
I don't think there's any need for the area around the Cell to be like Wrigleyville. Not all areas with a baseball park and a few things to do are like Wrigleyville. Most cities, as they build new stadia are looking to have a neighborhood around it. New stadiums have been used in Atlanta, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. to help revitalize and area and bring businesses in. If there were a few restaurants around and some nicer bars, it would be everything it needs to be. I don't need Wrigleyville, but I do need something.

Also, don't discount the city fan. While there are many people driving from Suburbs, there are also TONS of people going south on the red line with me from up north. It's packed going there and going home. City people are not driving.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Realist
I would rather find something with an established liquor license, but I'm keeping an open mind. Daley and Martis (liquor commissioner for Chicago) make you jump through flaming hoops if you want to a bar in Chicago. An established liquor license cuts down on the number of hoops.

Oh ok, I understand. But what is that close to the park, that it would be visible to those going to the game. I think this makes the situation the same as it is now. How would your place help the "going to the ballgame experience" then?

Realist
04-21-2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by UICJason
I don't think there's any need for the area around the Cell to be like Wrigleyville. Not all areas with a baseball park and a few things to do are like Wrigleyville. Most cities, as they build new stadia are looking to have a neighborhood around it. New stadiums have been used in Atlanta, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. to help revitalize and area and bring businesses in. If there were a few restaurants around and some nicer bars, it would be everything it needs to be. I don't need Wrigleyville, but I do need something.

Also, don't discount the city fan. While there are many people driving from Suburbs, there are also TONS of people going south on the red line with me from up north. It's packed going there and going home. City people are not driving.

I took the red line to the opener and I got on at Sheridan. I couldn't believe all the Sox fans that packed that train. We were like sardines by the time we hit the Clark St. stop.

There are going to be more nice places to stop before and after the games around the park. That's inevitable. It may take a few more years, but it's only going to get better. There's no way that area is in decline. At the same time, I don't forsee gentrification chasing out the families that have lived there for generations and giving way to idiot yuppies or Biff and Trixie Creamcheese that just moved here from Iowa City. I fully expect the charm and character of Bridgeport to remain firmly intact.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by UICJason
I don't think there's any need for the area around the Cell to be like Wrigleyville. Not all areas with a baseball park and a few things to do are like Wrigleyville. Most cities, as they build new stadia are looking to have a neighborhood around it. New stadiums have been used in Atlanta, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. to help revitalize and area and bring businesses in. If there were a few restaurants around and some nicer bars, it would be everything it needs to be. I don't need Wrigleyville, but I do need something.

Also, don't discount the city fan. While there are many people driving from Suburbs, there are also TONS of people going south on the red line with me from up north. It's packed going there and going home. City people are not driving.

Well, exactly, as I stated earlier, I think this is probably what most people are getting at. We don't want or need the amusement park called Wrigleyville, but some establishments are needed. And a nice neighborhood around the ballpark is needed as well, instead of just parking lots.

There has got to be a way, that a neighborhood can be integrated around the park, and have parking garages, and have a parking lot or 2 for tailgating.

For the city people, who take public trans, as of now, even though I don't have anything to back me up--I would say that they probably take the redline to get to the game, watch the game, then leave, not stopping at any local establishments, because they aren't close enough to the train.....just my guess on that. What do you day UICJason? :?:

Realist
04-21-2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
Oh ok, I understand. But what is that close to the park, that it would be visible to those going to the game. I think this makes the situation the same as it is now. How would your place help the "going to the ballgame experience" then?

I haven't looked into it that thoroughly yet, but I have a Bridgeport native looking around at places for me. It may not be as close to the park as Jimbo's or as close as Sluggers is to the Urinal, but it should be fairly close. I'm gonna be sitting tight and taking care of some other priorities for the next year. I should have a better idea of what and where I wanna do this by the end of the summer.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Realist
I.

There are going to be more nice places to stop before and after the games around the park. That's inevitable. It may take a few more years, but it's only going to get better. There's no way that area is in decline. At the same time, I don't forsee gentrification chasing out the families that have lived there for generations and giving way to idiot yuppies or Biff and Trixie Creamcheese that just moved here from Iowa City. I fully expect the charm and character of Bridgeport to remain firmly intact.


From the indicators such as Bridgeport Village, which is a family residential development. I can see it staying that way. But what intrigues me is what type of residential properties are going to be built on the land that DiFoggio bought on Pershing, across from that grill/diner.

Fridaythe13thJason
04-21-2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Realist


I took the red line to the opener and I got on at Sheridan. I couldn't believe all the Sox fans that packed that train. We were like sardines by the time we hit the Clark St. stop.

There are going to be more nice places to stop before and after the games around the park. That's inevitable. It may take a few more years, but it's only going to get better. There's no way that area is in decline. At the same time, I don't forsee gentrification chasing out the families that have lived there for generations and giving way to idiot yuppies or Biff and Trixie Creamcheese that just moved here from Iowa City. I fully expect the charm and character of Bridgeport to remain firmly intact.

I would agree. I think the city seems to want to push the gentrification on the north side for now. I know there are south loop developments, but that is different.

There is still plenty of area for gentrification on the northside...no need to silly up the southside too.


Originally posted by soxnut


Well, exactly, as I stated earlier, I think this is probably what most people are getting at. We don't want or need the amusement park called Wrigleyville, but some establishments are needed. And a nice neighborhood around the ballpark is needed as well, instead of just parking lots.

There has got to be a way, that a neighborhood can be integrated around the park, and have parking garages, and have a parking lot or 2 for tailgating.

For the city people, who take public trans, as of now, even though I don't have anything to back me up--I would say that they probably take the redline to get to the game, watch the game, then leave, not stopping at any local establishments, because they aren't close enough to the train.....just my guess on that. What do you day UICJason? :?:

100% correct. I would go to Puffers or that other place at 35th and Halsted after the game, but it's way too much of a walk. The reason Wrigleyville works is because there are at least 20 bars within a 3 block radius. You can see them all and there are already people there drawing you in. Little neighborhood bars like Jimbos aren't going to attract a fan who doesnm't know. They're intimidating.

We just get back on the el and hang out near our places on the north side. Sad, because I'd love to avoid the mess of the El right after a game and hang out with Sox fans for most of the night.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Realist
I haven't looked into it that thoroughly yet, but I have a Bridgeport native looking around at places for me. It may not be as close to the park as Jimbo's or as close as Sluggers is to the Urinal, but it should be fairly close. I'm gonna be sitting tight and taking care of some other priorities for the next year. I should have a better idea of what and where I wanna do this by the end of the summer.

Well I've got to say that you've got me very interested in what you plan on doing. I hope everything works out. I guess because I'm a Sox fan, I have alot of interest in what goes on in that neighborhood and I want nothing but the best for it. The residents, the Sox and their fans deserve it.

Fridaythe13thJason
04-21-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Realist
I haven't looked into it that thoroughly yet, but I have a Bridgeport native looking around at places for me. It may not be as close to the park as Jimbo's or as close as Sluggers is to the Urinal, but it should be fairly close. I'm gonna be sitting tight and taking care of some other priorities for the next year. I should have a better idea of what and where I wanna do this by the end of the summer.

If you need a bartender...I work cheap, and I don't make foo foo drinks. :smile:

Realist
04-21-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
From the indicators such as Bridgeport Village, which is a family residential development. I can see it staying that way. But what intrigues me is what type of residential properties are going to be built on the land that DiFoggio bought on Pershing, across from that grill/diner.

http://chicagolife.blogspot.com/2003_02_23_chicagolife_archive.html

Plumbing magnate Michael DiFoggio has purchased a huge parcel of land 3946 S. Normal and 559 W. Pershing, and plans to put attractive residential housing in the area, which due to Chicago’s With-Houses-Comes-Grass ordnance means there will be some nice green to look at as well. The development will depend on what re-elected Alderman James Balcer (11th) will allow DiFoggio to do with the parcel. Bridgeport will border on the New Downtown as the Central Area Plan progresses, and so a centrally-located new residential development will go far in improving the face of one of the city’s oldest neighborhoods. Like Pilsen, Bridgeport was out of the way of the Great Chicago Fire and therefore many of its buildings date from the mid-19th century.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by UICJason
I would agree. I think the city seems to want to push the gentrification on the north side for now. I know there are south loop developments, but that is different.

There is still plenty of area for gentrification on the northside...no need to silly up the southside too.




100% correct. I would go to Puffers or that other place at 35th and Halsted after the game, but it's way too much of a walk. The reason Wrigleyville works is because there are at least 20 bars within a 3 block radius. You can see them all and there are already people there drawing you in. Little neighborhood bars like Jimbos aren't going to attract a fan who doesnm't know. They're intimidating.

We just get back on the el and hang out near our places on the north side. Sad, because I'd love to avoid the mess of the El right after a game and hang out with Sox fans for most of the night.



Yeah that's what I thought happens. And as for the little neighborhood bars being intimidating, you're right. I've been to Jimbo's once and it was a nice---free beef sanwhiches that day. Good experience.

But, for the most part I feel intimitaded about going to these little bars/taverns, and some suburban guy is "invading their turf"...I'm sure other sox fans might feel the same way. I don't know how the regulars feel about people form other places coming in......... :?:

Realist
04-21-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by UICJason
If you need a bartender...I work cheap, and I don't make foo foo drinks. :smile:

$5 an hour plus tips. You better look like a Hooters girl. :D: Chicks sell booze.

I would wanna steal all the girls from HiTops. Damn they sure iz purrty. Too bad they're all Cubs fans, 'cause they really know baseball too. I once stood there listening to 4 gorgeous women from HiTops all argue baseball and I swear I would have started drooling if only they weren't talking about the Cubs.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Realist
http://chicagolife.blogspot.com/2003_02_23_chicagolife_archive.html

Interesting. Thanks. I have seen that the land over there is being cleared. Haven't been by lately, but there was half a white building still standing last time I checked, and it had been that way for months.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Realist
$5 an hour plus tips. You better look like a Hooters girl. :D: Chicks sell booze.

I would wanna steal all the girls from HiTops. Damn they sure iz purrty. Too bad they're all Cubs fans, 'cause they really know baseball too. I once stood there listening to 4 gorgeous women from HiTops all argue baseball and I swear I would have started drooling if only they weren't talking about the Cubs.


I met a very attractive waitress in Chattanooga a few years ago in a bar/restaurant called Taco Mac((I really like that place and wish we had one here), she knew baseball, and a little White Sox history, but was a Yankee fan....but OMG, to talk with a gorgeous woman about baseball---I felt like I was in heaven... :smile:

Rush20
04-21-2004, 12:37 PM
Some excellent ideas brought up in this thread. I don't think any SOX fan wants a second Wrigleyville, just some modest development in the area to help offset the commute horrors to/from the ballpark.

Coming in from the South burbs, we now enjoy the added excitement of watching the metra rail be built along the L-tracks all summer, knocking out another lane of traffic on the Dan Ryan and causing more congestion. A 20 mile drive is now taking 1.5 hours.

I understand that roadwork is a part of midwest living, however if the SOX had a neighborhood where you could spend some non-game time, it would make the logistics challenges easier to stomach.

If the SOX went as deep as the Cubs in the playoffs, we wouldn't have 15,000 fans outside the ballpark enjoying the experience. (JR would probably charge them $15.00 to stand in the parking lot). :smile: There would simply be nowhere to go which is unfortunate.

Too bad the Fire decided to build their stadium outside Chicago. It would have been nice to see them build on Pershing and helping to further develop the neighborhood.

owensmouth
04-21-2004, 01:02 PM
The vast majority of people who go to a major league game go there for that reason: a major league game.

Consider the parking situation at Chicago's two parks. At Wrigley, most people end up parking on the streets. This is what leads to, as one person said, people peeing all over. It's also why some of the local establishments do such good business before and after the games: Wrigley patrons go walking past and are lured in.

At the Cell, most folks park in the lots. After the game they walk out to their car, get in and drive home. So where are you going to put a bar between the gates and the parking lots? Or the gates and the El?

If you open a place primarily to cater to the pre and post game crowd, you're gonna be open 81 days a year. If you put it in west of the parking lots, most Sox fans won't know you exist, because they are headed north or south on the expressway. Does Bridgeport need more bars?

The White Sox need to reopen the lines of communication between themselves and their natural fan base, the south and southwest Chicagoans and the south and southwest suburbanites. The Sox must make sure that these people feel that they are part of the White Sox family.

Fridaythe13thJason
04-21-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Realist
$5 an hour plus tips. You better look like a Hooters girl. :D: Chicks sell booze.

I would wanna steal all the girls from HiTops. Damn they sure iz purrty. Too bad they're all Cubs fans, 'cause they really know baseball too. I once stood there listening to 4 gorgeous women from HiTops all argue baseball and I swear I would have started drooling if only they weren't talking about the Cubs.

I'm a fine looking guy, but I certainly don't have the rack of the avg Hooters girl. :smile:

Fridaythe13thJason
04-21-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by owensmouth
[B]The vast majority of people who go to a major league game go there for that reason: a major league game.

Not true...I don't think that's true in any sport. Maybe football.


Consider the parking situation at Chicago's two parks. At Wrigley, most people end up parking on the streets. This is what leads to, as one person said, people peeing all over. It's also why some of the local establishments do such good business before and after the games: Wrigley patrons go walking past and are lured in.


MOST people at Wrigley did not drive there.


At the Cell, most folks park in the lots. After the game they walk out to their car, get in and drive home. So where are you going to put a bar between the gates and the parking lots? Or the gates and the El?

Again, there are LOTS of people who take the el there. I can't give you numbers, but certainly enough to establish an atmosphere of fun.

If you open a place primarily to cater to the pre and post game crowd, you're gonna be open 81 days a year. If you put it in west of the parking lots, most Sox fans won't know you exist, because they are headed north or south on the expressway. Does Bridgeport need more bars?

People live there. There could definitely be more bars. And as long as they keep building, more people will be around, and the bars will be in use all year long. Wrigleyville isn't a magical place. Lots of cities have bars around their stadiums.

RichFitztightly
04-21-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Realist
Biff and Trixie Creamcheese

For some reason that really made me laugh. I don't see why the Sox or somebody associated with them couldn't build an establishment over the G-Lot on the other side of the tracks. It could be broken up into 2 establishments. One would be a fun type place to socialize, watch the game and listen to music. Then you can have a separate place that's similar to Jay-Z's 40/40 Club in NYC. That's a higher caliber sports bar. Something like this could also offer VIP Rooms or Conference Rooms for Corporate travelers. It has a possibility to bring in a lot of money for whomever runs it.

maurice
04-21-2004, 02:00 PM
If you ask the casual fan who goes to Wrigley why they don't go to the Cell instead, the only coherent answer you'll get relates to the bars within drunken-stumbling distance of the park. JR intentionally drove these customers away when he decided to eliminate all competing businesses in the immediately vicitinity of the park.

The obvious thing to do (which I've been advocating for years) is to build mixed-use buildings on the portion of the parking lots facing 35th St. and facing Wentworth. They would pay for themselves (and then some). Condos that close to the el would sell like hotcakes. Storefronts could contain bars and other year-round businesses.

We'll know that the powers-that-be have come to their senses if the last phase of development at the Cell includes the grand entrance building facing 35th and Wentworth.

greenpeach
04-21-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by owensmouth
I keep reading suggestions saying that the White Sox should encourage bars and taverns of one variety or another be built in the vicinity of US Cellular Field. That, so the presumption goes, will help to fill up the ballpark.

These people are of the opinion that what fills up Wrigley on game days is the availability of beer joints near the Cubs ballpark.
So if it works for the Cubs, it's bound to work for the Sox.

The availability of beer has not been a significant factor in my going to the ballpark since I was seventeen. Peters, Pizarro, Horlen and John were pitching for the Sox back then.

If you say that US Cellular Field sats at the corner of 35th and the Dan Ryan, what else is at that intersection?

NE - IIT
NW - Sox Parking lot
SW - US Cellular
SE - Whatever remains of slum housing

Now, what's around Wrigley? Apartments, multi-family dwellings

It's a totally different type of neighborhood.

McCuddy's was not the reason that people went to Comiskey Park.

Dodger Stadium is sorta like US Cellular. Very little walk in traffic. You know what's closest to Chavez Ravine? The Los Angeles Police Department Academy - some neighbor. And there's no el-subway to Dodger Stadium, but people drive there from all over LA County.

Anaheim Stadium, like both US Cellular and Dodger Stadium, sits in a parking lot. Yes, it's across the freeway from Disneyland. You know how many people travel from Disneyland to see the Angels? Zippo... that's why Disney sold the Angels.

Okay, so what do the Cubs, the Angels, the Dodgers, the Yankees, and all the other successful teams have that the White Sox don't have? Excitement, anticipation, warmth, a feeling that it's "our" team.

The Chicago White Sox need to redevelop their ties with the community. They have to go further out to encourage suburban Sox fans to participate regularly.

Putting up a tavern just isn't the answer.

Excellent post. You can add the New York Mets & Shea Stadium to that list as well. Shea sits in the middle of a giant parking lot. Its closest neighbor is an auto parts store. Yet, even during bad years they'll draw 2 million fans.

brewcrew/chisox
04-21-2004, 02:12 PM
When I moved to Chicago from Milwaukee, one of the many reasons that I embraced the White sox and not the Cubs is because of the parking lot and the tailgating one can experience before and after the game. On days when the park is full and the weather is great, there is nothing....and I mean NOTHING better than a few beers with your friends, a grill, tossing the ball (or beanbag) around and listening to pregame or music before the game.

This is what I enjoy about the Comisky/Cell experience, an experience which reminds me of what makes going to Brewer games enjoyable, despite the fact that the team is horrible and the owners are....well, you know the owners.

Why would you want anything else? I agree that hanging out a bar is nice after everything is over. I usually go to the bullpen for this. But I think Sox fans should feel proud to have an actual parking lot to tailgate in, which in many ways builds a better, more family like communittee than what would be established by an onslaught of new bars.

soxnut
04-21-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by brewcrew/chisox
Why would you want anything else? I agree that hanging out a bar is nice after everything is over. I usually go to the bullpen for this. But I think Sox fans should feel proud to have an actual parking lot to tailgate in, which in many ways builds a better, more family like communittee than what would be established by an onslaught of new bars.


No, no onsluaght of bars. And as I have stated as well as UIC Jason and Realist, if anything there should be mixed development around the ballpark. There should be some parking lots available for tailgating. But the rest of the parking should be integrated into a parking garage that would also house, condos, apartments, shops, restaurants and a few bars----not make the area a bar-drunk haven.

I don't think anyone on here has suggested making the area just full of bars. People here do realize that Bridgeport is a family residential area. But what has been proposed by those here is a way to keep it a family/residential neighborhood, but add a few extras that bring in business(tax $) for the area and more interest for the casual fan to want to come to the ballpark for an overall entertainment experience, because that is what sports has become.