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kojak
04-18-2004, 10:43 PM
got me to wondering. You know, the Flubs have their curse, Baahston has theirs and of coors, we have our own.

Curses! Curses! Curses!

Then I started thinking shortly after we grew the cajones to hire Ozzie...when was the last time the Sox were managed by a former Sox player. I know Al Lopez was a player/manager, but I just checked and he never actually played for the White Sox. I reckon you would have to go back to our last championship to find a team managed by a former Sox player.

So maybe Ken Williams has stumbled upon the antedote for our own curse: hiring Ozzie Guillen. Time will tell, but it sure is going to be fun finding out...

Cheers!

Daver
04-18-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by kojak
got me to wondering. You know, the Flubs have their curse, Baahston has theirs and of coors, we have our own.

Curses! Curses! Curses!

Then I started thinking shortly after we grew the cajones to hire Ozzie...when was the last time the Sox were managed by a former Sox player. I know Al Lopez was a player/manager, but I just checked and he never actually played for the White Sox. I reckon you would have to go back to our last championship to find a team managed by a former Sox player.

So maybe Ken Williams has stumbled upon the antedote for our own curse: hiring Ozzie Guillen. Time will tell, but it sure is going to be fun finding out...

Cheers!


Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

miker
04-18-2004, 10:59 PM
I'm amused by all the furor in the baseball press over "Latin" or "Hispanic" managers like Ozzie or Tony Pena and apparently everyone has forgotten about Al Lopez.

I guess he was "Latin" before "Latin" was cool.

1951Campbell
04-18-2004, 11:00 PM
I would just like to say the first Yankees/BoSox series hype--that somehow sucked in the curse'd Cubs as well--has made me quite sick this weekend. If I had a dollar for everytime I heard the phrase "five outs away from the World Series", I could pay the Yankees payroll this year.

Ugh.

MRKARNO
04-18-2004, 11:02 PM
We aren't that stupid as to believe in curses as a fan base. While I personally do believe in jinxes after jinxing Loaiza's perfect game on opening day last year, I dont think that most Sox fans want to be associated with a curse.

batmanZoSo
04-18-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by miker
I'm amused by all the furor in the baseball press over "Latin" or "Hispanic" managers like Ozzie or Tony Pena and apparently everyone has forgotten about Al Lopez.

I guess he was "Latin" before "Latin" was cool.

They probably thought he was Italian. lol

batmanZoSo
04-18-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
We aren't that stupid as to believe in curses as a fan base. While I personally do believe in jinxes after jinxing Loaiza's perfect game on opening day last year, I dont think that most Sox fans want to be associated with a curse.

I totally believe in curses. I see us as a hard-luck franchise and most of it is self-imposed. But the cubs and red sox are definitely cursed. Just look what happens whenever they come close to something.

MRKARNO
04-18-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
But the cubs and red sox are definitely cursed.

Not really. They're just a bunch of chokers who whenever they get close cant handle the pressure of breaking the media-hyped curses.

manuelsucks
04-18-2004, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Not really. They're just a bunch of chokers who whenever they get close cant handle the pressure of breaking the media-hyped curses.

I would tend to be in the same boat as you, but I can't explain how it happens multiple times.

Originally posted by kojak
got me to wondering. You know, the Flubs have their curse, Baahston has theirs and of coors, we have our own.got me to wondering. You know, the Flubs have their curse, Baahston has theirs and of coors, we have our own.

Curses! Curses! Curses!

Then I started thinking shortly after we grew the cajones to hire Ozzie...when was the last time the Sox were managed by a former Sox player. I know Al Lopez was a player/manager, but I just checked and he never actually played for the White Sox. I reckon you would have to go back to our last championship to find a team managed by a former Sox player.

So maybe Ken Williams has stumbled upon the antedote for our own curse: hiring Ozzie Guillen. Time will tell, but it sure is going to be fun finding out...

Cheers!

Welcome! Good research! At the rate they are winning, we could have beaten the curse :D:

batmanZoSo
04-19-2004, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Not really. They're just a bunch of chokers who whenever they get close cant handle the pressure of breaking the media-hyped curses.

So Ted Williams was a choker...then years later, Carl Yazstrzemski was a choker, then Roger Clemens.... I think that's oversimplification and naive in its own right. Those guys have nothing to do with each other and they don't care about history. Same deal with the cubs. I'm not saying there's evil spirits lurking about, causing bad hops, but something intangible, probably unconscious is going on with both those teams. The Red Sox had like a 5-0 lead with PEDRO pitching in Game 7! And they lost!

Like the other guy said, you can't explain how it happens multiple times. The NLCS last year was hauntingly similar to the 84 NLCS. You had a big lead, and a major fielding error in both. Then they showed "the last time a pitcher homered in the NLCS--Rick Sutcliffe: 1984." Come on. :smile:

davidleeroth
04-19-2004, 12:28 AM
ANYBODY that actually believes in one of these curses needs to be taken out back and beaten. badly.

the cubs havent won the world series in a long time because they dont have to. look, they're going to be near the league lead in attendance every year due to the ballpark they play in. its a lot easier to put together a loser than a winner which explains why up until they lucked out with prior and wood they havent had anything. also, right now chicago is finding out that without prior and wood both being in the lineup, they arent very good.

the red sox on the other hand dont deserve to win a world series for the next 50 years imo. they were the last team to integrate. i dont feel bad for the red sox or the city of boston for that matter. both have been historically racist. there's no curse here, rather a racially intolerable franchise in an intolerable city.

batmanZoSo
04-19-2004, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by davidleeroth
ANYBODY that actually believes in one of these curses needs to be taken out back and beaten. badly.



the red sox on the other hand dont deserve to win a world series for the next 50 years imo. they were the last team to integrate. i dont feel bad for the red sox or the city of boston for that matter. both have been historically racist. there's no curse here, rather a racially intolerable franchise in an intolerable city.

All your points there are inane, and not well-taken.

Lip Man 1
04-19-2004, 12:34 AM
The last 'player - manager' for the White Sox was none other then Cub favorite Don Kessinger in 1979. He lasted all of 4 1/2 months before being fired and replaced by Larry Doby for the rest of that season.

Lip

Jeremy
04-19-2004, 12:57 AM
I'm not completely sold on curses, but I don't rule them out either. However, what I do know is that of the Boston, Cubs, and Sox curses, the Cubs one seems to be the most stupid and far fetched one of them all. Come on? A Goat? What the hell has that got to do with baseball?

I can believe the Red Sox not being able to win after they sold the best player in the game to their rivals for some pocket cash. And I can believe the White Sox not being able to win a world series after they took money to throw the series. But come on, a goat?

I believe there are baseball gods somewhere, I think they'd be ticked off about the Sox incident, but why would they give a rats ass if a goat wasn't allowed into a ball game?

batmanZoSo
04-19-2004, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Jeremy
I'm not completely sold on curses, but I don't rule them out either. However, what I do know is that of the Boston, Cubs, and Sox curses, the Cubs one seems to be the most stupid and far fetched one of them all. Come on? A Goat? What the hell has that got to do with baseball?

I can believe the Red Sox not being able to win after they sold the best player in the game to their rivals for some pocket cash. And I can believe the White Sox not being able to win a world series after they took money to throw the series. But come on, a goat?

I believe there are baseball gods somewhere, I think they'd be ticked off about the Sox incident, but why would they give a rats ass if a goat wasn't allowed into a ball game?

The popular reason for the cubs curse is ridiculous...just because some regular guy couldn't bring his freakin FARM animal to the game. But that doesn't mean there ain't some foul business at work from something. Maybe they sold kids for slave labor in the early 1900s, who knows. :smile: The point is they pissed someone off and they continue to pay for it.

white sox bill
04-19-2004, 07:19 AM
See the diffrences AND similarities in the Sox/flub curses? They get cursed for NOT letting a farm animal in (goat) and we get cursed for LETTING a farm animal in (Uncle Jerry the Jackass)!!

Wsoxmike59
04-19-2004, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
The popular reason for the cubs curse is ridiculous...just because some regular guy couldn't bring his freakin FARM animal to the game. But that doesn't mean there ain't some foul business at work from something. Maybe they sold kids for slave labor in the early 1900s, who knows. :smile: The point is they pissed someone off and they continue to pay for it.


The Cubs are the team that pulled their team off the field when their opponent that day attempted to field an African American ballplayer. I believe his name was Moses Fleetwood Walker.

Cub manager Cap Anson refused to put his ball team on the field unless the Jersey team removed the African American player from the game, thus beginning the segregationist policy in MLB for the next 50 years.

The Cubs cost many a black ballplayer his career in the major leagues because of this, and that is the reason the Cubs franchise is cursed for all time!!!!

HomeFish
04-19-2004, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by kojak
I reckon you would have to go back to our last championship to find a team managed by a former Sox player.

Baseball-Reference.com has no record of Pants Rowland ever playing for the White Sox or, indeed, playing for any MLB team.

jortafan
04-19-2004, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by miker
I'm amused by all the furor in the baseball press over "Latin" or "Hispanic" managers like Ozzie or Tony Pena and apparently everyone has forgotten about Al Lopez.


The "difference" is that people like Guillen and Pena were born in Venezuela and the Dominican Republic, respectively.

Lopez was a native of Tampa, Fla. So strictly speaking, Al is an American -- albeit one whose family came from Cuba and Spain.

Baby Fisk
04-19-2004, 09:13 AM
Clubs that are presently cursed: BoSox, Cubs, Indians, Hanshin (Japan).

Clubs that are jinxed: Yankees (something about Don Mattingly in the dugout keeps this team from winning -- check out their post-season appearences in comparison to his years as a Yankee player...)

The Black Sox curse elapsed years ago, so breathe easy Sox Fans!

Jeremy
04-19-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk


The Black Sox curse elapsed years ago, so breathe easy Sox Fans!


when did it elapse exactly? We still haven't won a world series since then.

WinningUgly!
04-19-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Baseball-Reference.com has no record of Pants Rowland ever playing for the White Sox or, indeed, playing for any MLB team.

He was never more than a reserve catcher in the minors.

Paulwny
04-19-2004, 02:35 PM
Just a few days ago I listened to an interview with Mike Barnicle (sp) sports writer for the Boston Hearld. He doesn't believe in the Cursse of the Bambino but in the Curse of Tom Yawkey. He felt the bosox could have won a few WS if it weren't Yawkey's refusal to sign black players. Boston was the last team to integrate.
He claimed that at different times, both J. Robinson and W. Mays were at Fenway for a look-see but Yawkey absolutely refused to offer them contracts.

Baby Fisk
04-19-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Jeremy
when did it elapse exactly? We still haven't won a world series since then.

I'm not a cursocological expert, but I play one on TV. My belief is that the Sox were cursed so long as they made their home where the black sox scandal was played out, ie. old Comiskey Park. Having moved to New Comiskey/USCF in 1991, the Sox have been curse-free since then. Since then, with Jerry R. at the helm, it seems that we've been screwed instead.

In the same vein, the Cubs are cursed so long as they make Wrigley their home, as it was the site of the infamous goat ejection in 1945.

Some of you will likely fly off the handle and call this a bunch of hooey, but these are my beliefs anyway.

Paulwny
04-19-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
I'm not a cursocological expert, but I play one on TV.


I receive CBLT and CFTO, your show on either of these?
If so, what's the name of the show and the character you play, if you don't mind giving out the info?

Baby Fisk
04-19-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I receive CBLT and CFTO, your show on either of these?
If so, what's the name of the show and the character you play, if you don't mind giving out the info?

Sorry, Paulwny, I should have put that in teal. I have never been on TV.

:)

jackbrohamer
04-19-2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
He was never more than a reserve catcher in the minors.

Pretty off-topic, but more interesting to me than the subject of "curses:" Why was he called "Pants"?

red faber
04-20-2004, 04:46 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by manuelsucks
[B]I would tend to be in the same boat as you, but I can't explain how it happens multiple times.

those two teams choked multiple times.
simple as that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

red faber
04-20-2004, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
So Ted Williams was a choker...then years later, Carl Yazstrzemski was a choker, then Roger Clemens.... I think that's oversimplification and naive in its own right. Those guys have nothing to do with each other and they don't care about history. Same deal with the cubs. I'm not saying there's evil spirits lurking about, causing bad hops, but something intangible, probably unconscious is going on with both those teams. The Red Sox had like a 5-0 lead with PEDRO pitching in Game 7! And they lost!

Like the other guy said, you can't explain how it happens multiple times. The NLCS last year was hauntingly similar to the 84 NLCS. You had a big lead, and a major fielding error in both. Then they showed "the last time a pitcher homered in the NLCS--Rick Sutcliffe: 1984." Come on. :smile:


if you execute,you win.

if you don't execute,you lose

it's just that simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

curses do not exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and if those players bought into it,then they didn't deserve to be champions any way.

beliveing in curses is downright,asinine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Railsplitter
04-20-2004, 10:01 AM
I'm sick of hearing about curses. They're nothing more than a crutch. The Cubs made seven trips to the Series after 1908, so it's not as if they've lacked in chances. As for the Red Sox a recent HBO special mentioned the reluctance to integrate that some here have touched on, but also noted the Carmines like to load up on right handed sluggers, which is good for Fenway, but as far as I know that's the only park that ever favored right handed sluggers.

miker
04-20-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by jortafan
The "difference" is that people like Guillen and Pena were born in Venezuela and the Dominican Republic, respectively.

Lopez was a native of Tampa, Fla. So strictly speaking, Al is an American -- albeit one whose family came from Cuba and Spain.

Oh, that's right -- Florida is still part of this country...

Thanks for the info!