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View Full Version : Frank and Jose...Hurting.


valposoxfan
04-18-2004, 05:05 PM
Frank and Jose both have hamstring problems, Frank with his right one and Jose with his left one. Personally I'm glad that these injuries are happening now instead of right smack in the middle of a pennant race however it still raises some concerns. Going into a potentially huge matchup in terms of momentum with the Yankees, we could be without both of these two. I'm personally a little bit concerned about this. How do you think this affects the offense? Am I making too much out of this? Am I just retarded?

HomeFish
04-18-2004, 05:07 PM
Frank hasn't been contributing much to our offense at all besides walks. Losing Valentin will give us a key defensive advantage.

If we are indeed to lose both of them. I have a feeling that Ross Gload and Juan Uribe will make you forget them soon enough.

voodoochile
04-18-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Frank hasn't been contributing much to our offense at all besides walks. Losing Valentin will give us a key defensive advantage.

If we are indeed to lose both of them. I have a feeling that Ross Gload and Juan Uribe will make you forget them soon enough.

LOL! The day Ross Gload can carry Frank's jock, will be a cold day in Hell...

Don't confuse your dislike of the man for his big mouth with a lack of production. Frank not being in the lineup creates a gaping hole.

In addition, everyday Jose cannot play is one more day that Harris does play and Jose is a MUCH better offensive player than Wee Willie...

Nick@Nite
04-18-2004, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
Frank and Jose both have hamstring problems, Frank with his right one and Jose with his left one. Personally I'm glad that these injuries are happening now instead of right smack in the middle of a pennant race however it still raises some concerns. Going into a potentially huge match up in terms of momentum with the Yankees, we could be without both of these two. I'm personally a little bit concerned about this. How do you think this affects the offense? Am I making too much out of this? Am I just retarded?

1. You are not retarded.
2. You are not making too much out of this... it's serious, Hurt & Manos combined for 70 Big Fly's last year.
3. I'm also concerned... see #4, 5 & 6.
4. Gload can fill in at DH... a lefty adds a little spice to a predominantly right handed line up.
5. Juan Uribe can fill in for Jose... the added team speed is a good thing.
6. I'm in no way saying Frank and Valentin are easily replaceable... but the Sox have hitting to spare.
7. I'm more concerned about a closer... I think it should be by committee until someone bubbles to the surface.
8. I'm really really hoping Kelly Wunsch can immediately contribute... taking some pressure of the bullpen/closer situation.
9. I'm also concerned about re-signing Maggs... if the Sox falter in the first half, he'll be gone around the All-Star break.
10. If the Sox keep winning, JR will look incredibly bad if Maggs isn't re-signed... though JR can always leave Maggs twisting in the wind the entire season... milking Maggs' production for everything it's worth.

Today should be christenend Hammy Sunday;
Frank
Valentin
Chipper Jones
___________ <<<---- Fill in the blank, I'm guessing there is more.

Nick@Nite
04-18-2004, 05:34 PM
..."In a couple of days, we'll know more,"... get well soon big fella! :(:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20040418&content_id=720446&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

jeremyb1
04-18-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Frank hasn't been contributing much to our offense at all besides walks. Losing Valentin will give us a key defensive advantage.

If we are indeed to lose both of them. I have a feeling that Ross Gload and Juan Uribe will make you forget them soon enough.

I'm sorry but that was a terrible post. Frank's not contributing except for his walks. That's like saying McGuire didn't contribute except for his home runs. Frank has the highest OBP on the team right now, and he's not swinging a particularly hot bat. He's exceedingly important to this club. You can make an argument Jose was the best defensive shortstop in the AL last season. Sure he had a rough few days but I thought we were past the point of assessing his defense only in terms of errors. Does his range and ability to turn double plays still escape people after all of his time here.

Deadguy
04-18-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Frank hasn't been contributing much to our offense at all besides walks. Losing Valentin will give us a key defensive advantage.

If we are indeed to lose both of them. I have a feeling that Ross Gload and Juan Uribe will make you forget them soon enough.

Oh please. You do realise that the Yankees have a LHP starting on Tuesday, and Thomas is arguably the greatest hitter ever against LHP.

I remember looking at the probables before series last year, and everytime a LHP was on the hill, you could pencil in Thomas to have a big game, especially if the game was at home.

Having him out for the series, with Osborne also expected to make a start, definitely leaves us at a major disadvantage offesnively.

Win1ForMe
04-18-2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
You can make an argument Jose was the best defensive shortstop in the AL last season. Sure he had a rough few days but I thought we were past the point of assessing his defense only in terms of errors. Does his range and ability to turn double plays still escape people after all of his time here.

His defense has already lead to 5 unearned runs this season. That's a little more serious than saying "he had a rough few days."

MRKARNO
04-18-2004, 06:29 PM
Well thank god we have an off day tomorrow and a night game the following day. It might be enough time for them both to heal.

valposoxfan
04-18-2004, 08:59 PM
Both are day to day, and both of them seem like they are in no hurry to get back. I have a feeling we won't see them against the Yanks...Also, Frank's sounds a lil bit more serious...

elrod
04-18-2004, 09:24 PM
Don't panic. It's just day to day right now. Big Frank is hugely important for the lineup, even if he's struggling. With Uribe Jose is a little more expendable.

jabrch
04-18-2004, 10:00 PM
We can't replace Frank at all, but we SURELY can replace Valentin with Uribe and not lose much. Thank goodness the rest of the team is hitting well.

voodoochile
04-18-2004, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
We can't replace Frank at all, but we SURELY can replace Valentin with Uribe and not lose much. Thank goodness the rest of the team is hitting well.

The problem is that we aren't replacing Jose with Uribe. We are replacing him with Harris. Otherwise the Sox could play both Uribe AND Valentin.

SEALgep
04-18-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The problem is that we aren't replacing Jose with Uribe. We are replacing him with Harris. Otherwise the Sox could play both Uribe AND Valentin. But they wouldn't be. If Valentin is healthy, it will continue to be him with Willie, not Uribe.

batmanZoSo
04-18-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
LOL! The day Ross Gload can carry Frank's jock, will be a cold day in Hell...

Don't confuse your dislike of the man for his big mouth with a lack of production. Frank not being in the lineup creates a gaping hole.

In addition, everyday Jose cannot play is one more day that Harris does play and Jose is a MUCH better offensive player than Wee Willie...

As of right now, it won't hurt us. Uribe's just as good if not better than Valentin. Certainly better defensively. Frank is scuffling, and Gload looked pretty good in spring, and in a few at bats this year.

soxtalker
04-18-2004, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
As of right now, it won't hurt us. Uribe's just as good if not better than Valentin. Certainly better defensively. Frank is scuffling, and Gload looked pretty good in spring, and in a few at bats this year.

Frank is scuffling only if you look at his batting average - .243 after today. But look at his walks -- 14 vs. 9 hits. That means that 45% of his at bats result in him getting on base. That's huge! They are pitching around him, he's driving up the pitch counts, and he's forcing the pitchers to come into the strike zone more often for Maggs and CLee.

I'm not normally that much of a cheerleader for Frank. I don't think that he can play the field, for example. But he's playing a big role in the offense this year. As much as I'd love to see Gload get some playing time, it is very doubtful that he'll be able to fill Frank's shoes.

voodoochile
04-18-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
But they wouldn't be. If Valentin is healthy, it will continue to be him with Willie, not Uribe.

The Sox started winning when Uribe started playing 2B and Harris sat down for a couple of games.

I won't be surprised to see Uribe become the regular 2B as the season progresses unless Harris makes a monumental leap in terms of understanding and ability...

SEALgep
04-18-2004, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Frank is scuffling only if you look at his batting average - .243 after today. But look at his walks -- 14 vs. 9 hits. That means that 45% of his at bats result in him getting on base. That's huge! They are pitching around him, he's driving up the pitch counts, and he's forcing the pitchers to come into the strike zone more often for Maggs and CLee.

I'm not normally that much of a cheerleader for Frank. I don't think that he can play the field, for example. But he's playing a big role in the offense this year. As much as I'd love to see Gload get some playing time, it is very doubtful that he'll be able to fill Frank's shoes. No one is saying we are better off because of this. The point of Gload is that he's a good player, and since Frank is out, he's a good guy to replace him for the time being. Under the circumstances, we definitely could be worse off.

batmanZoSo
04-18-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Frank is scuffling only if you look at his batting average - .243 after today. But look at his walks -- 14 vs. 9 hits. That means that 45% of his at bats result in him getting on base. That's huge! They are pitching around him, he's driving up the pitch counts, and he's forcing the pitchers to come into the strike zone more often for Maggs and CLee.

I'm not normally that much of a cheerleader for Frank. I don't think that he can play the field, for example. But he's playing a big role in the offense this year. As much as I'd love to see Gload get some playing time, it is very doubtful that he'll be able to fill Frank's shoes.

Let me clarify that Gload is not a Thomas replacement. A Konerko replacement maybe. Frank should be commended for not getting impatient in his slump and trying to hit homers every time up, but we can survive without Thomas for a few games. No one ever said Gload would fill Frank's shoes. And with Herm Schneider, Frank should be back in no time.

SEALgep
04-18-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The Sox started winning when Uribe started playing 2B and Harris sat down for a couple of games.

I won't be surprised to see Uribe become the regular 2B as the season progresses unless Harris makes a monumental leap in terms of understanding and ability... Harris has been playing well, but even if you're right about Uribe being the one who should play second, that's not the current situation. You implied that it was, and I was just stating Valentin's absent doesn't mean Willie is replacing him. Uribe would be replacing him, regardless if it changes in the future. It's not the way it is now.

voodoochile
04-18-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Harris has been playing well, but even if you're right about Uribe being the one who should play second, that's not the current situation. You implied that it was, and I was just stating Valentin's absent doesn't mean Willie is replacing him. Uribe would be replacing him, regardless if it changes in the future. It's not the way it is now.

Sorry, I am still hoping that Ozzie has seen the light and will get Uribe in at 2B as much as he can. Harris can split time with Rowand in CF and give Uribe, Jose and Crede a day off every now and then by playing 2B and allowing Uribe to bounce around the infield.

Uribe should start 140 games this season based on his early season and pre-season numbers. The man is a catalyst and has a big offensive upside over Harris and the Sox NEED a consistent leadoff hitter.

Frankfan4life
04-18-2004, 11:20 PM
I want to extend get well soon wishes and my hopes and prayers for a speedy recovery to Frank Thomas and Jose Valentin.

I'm hoping the Big Hurt is only a little hurt.

valposoxfan
04-18-2004, 11:34 PM
The one thing that really sucks about this is the fact that this team is playing solid baseball and how unlucky is it that these two get hurt at the same time right before a series with the Yankees. I don't want to be concerned because I look at Florida last year and they won without Lowell for half the year, the Cubs won without Patterson, and the Red Sox survived without Pedro for awhile, but it's still a frustrating and worrying kink in a season that has started like everyone wanted it to. I hope this isn't as serious as I think it might be, at least in Frank's situation.

Jeremy
04-18-2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
Frank and Jose both have hamstring problems, Frank with his right one and Jose with his left one. Personally I'm glad that these injuries are happening now instead of right smack in the middle of a pennant race however it still raises some concerns.

well...

saying that you're happy these injuries are happening now instead of during the pennant race is not a good thing, seeing as how players are capable of being injured more than once in a season... especially when it's the hamstring or a groin (they can reinjure it and what not). Injuries are just a freak occasion, but it's something you have to deal with, and the good teams can rise above them. That's why you have 25 men on a roster, you need depth in your club. Let's see what Ross Gload can do, we will need him with Frank out of the lineup. Uribe can play short. I don't forsee both players missing more than 5 games... but it could end up being more serious than we think. Pray, or have confidence in our bench, or do both I guess. hahaha.

bc2k
04-19-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Frank is scuffling only if you look at his batting average - .243 after today. But look at his walks -- 14 vs. 9 hits. That means that 45% of his at bats result in him getting on base. That's huge! They are pitching around him, he's driving up the pitch counts, and he's forcing the pitchers to come into the strike zone more often for Maggs and CLee.

I'm not normally that much of a cheerleader for Frank. I don't think that he can play the field, for example. But he's playing a big role in the offense this year. As much as I'd love to see Gload get some playing time, it is very doubtful that he'll be able to fill Frank's shoes.

I agree with your reasoning why Thomas has been a productive hitter in the lineup. I also think that while Frank isn't scuffling, he certainly isn't hitting at his talent level. I'm hoping that this time off allows him to come back at a higher, more Frank-like level--a level that he has yet to reach in this young season.

With Frank and Valentin out for a few days, it sure would be ideal timing for Joe Crede to get hot and go on one of his hitting streaks. Lord knows he's hasn't carried his weight to this point.

doublem23
04-19-2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Frank is scuffling only if you look at his batting average - .243 after today. But look at his walks -- 14 vs. 9 hits. That means that 45% of his at bats result in him getting on base. That's huge! They are pitching around him, he's driving up the pitch counts, and he's forcing the pitchers to come into the strike zone more often for Maggs and CLee.

Agreed. Also, I remember watching the Yankees series and seeing him just crush some balls foul. Had he swung 1/2 a second later, he'd at least have 3-4 home runs by now at least. He was unloading on a handful of pitches. Maybe just anxious.

Lip Man 1
04-19-2004, 01:39 AM
I think one of the biggest items that will determine if Frank and or Jose play against the Yanks will be the weather.

If the temps stay warm, in the 60's or 70's, they may give it a go. But if with the night games, the temps drop into the 40's or 50's, well... they'll probably sit out.

Too bad, the Sox had some momentum and New York is tough enough to beat when the Sox are at full strenght.

That being said I don't think either guy is headed for the DL.

Lip

voodoochile
04-19-2004, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
I agree with your reasoning why Thomas has been a productive hitter in the lineup. I also think that while Frank isn't scuffling, he certainly isn't hitting at his talent level. I'm hoping that this time off allows him to come back at a higher, more Frank-like level--a level that he has yet to reach in this young season.

With Frank and Valentin out for a few days, it sure would be ideal timing for Joe Crede to get hot and go on one of his hitting streaks. Lord knows he's hasn't carried his weight to this point.

The sad part is that Frank traditionally is a slow starter. He normally heats up in May, but over the last 7 games he has posted an OPS over 1.0. He actually was starting to hit as can be seen by his batting average starting to climb.

Now if he has to sit out for a while it could throw off his timing and set him back.