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View Full Version : And Jeremy Reed is up to .355


SoxxoS
04-16-2004, 01:50 PM
Just like that. And you guys we're worried...shame on you :D:

3 for 4 last night, 3 singles.

Borchard went 0 for 3 and is hitting .241.

Josh Stewart had a pretty solid outing, going 6 innings giving up 2 runs, 2 earned, with no walks and a strikeout.

Sanders and Pacheco both got lit up in a Charlotte 8-2 loss.

Seriously...when does everyone think we see Reed up here? If he keeps hitting for the next 2 weeks, it's going to be hard to keep him down there, isn't it? Rowand has been playing OK, but Reed would give the lineup a whole new look. Opinions or thoughts? I am excited about this kid.

JDP
04-16-2004, 01:52 PM
That .355 is with about what, 20-25 ABs?

He'll be up -- soon -- but no need to rush him. The Sox are playing great right now with the squad they have. Let's see what Reed does with 150-200 ABs there in Charlotte.

=}

SoxxoS
04-16-2004, 01:52 PM
Mods-I didn't see we had a Charlotte thread started already...I must have been typing while it was posted...feel free to move it.

SoxxoS
04-16-2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by JDP
That .355 is with about what, 20-25 ABs?

He'll be up -- soon -- but no need to rush him. The Sox are playing great right now with the squad they have. Let's see what Reed does with 150-200 ABs there in Charlotte.

=}

I have no patience. :smile:

Not to put any pressure on him... but we are due to have a rookie of the year on the southside.

soxtalker
04-16-2004, 02:00 PM
This is great news. But let him stay down there awhile, get consistent playing time, and continue to build his self confidence. Something will come up as we proceed through the season -- injury, trade opportunity, ...

MRKARNO
04-16-2004, 02:06 PM
Let's not even think about calling him up until

A. He has at least 100 At bats

or

B. He would be starting 4 or 5 times a week over Rowand and/or Timo

It would be nice if Reed was ready and we could trade Rowand to a team that needs a 4th outfielder and get a decent middle reliever in return

jeremyb1
04-16-2004, 02:06 PM
Its really too early to evaluate players' performance based on stats but Reed appeared to be ready after his performance last season. The only question was really whether he was healthy after his spring training struggles. It might've been (or still be) more an issue of readjusting mentally to stop favoring the wrist and Brian Anderson was supposedly struggling to do after his wrist injury.

The Sox brass seems to want to give Rowand a chance so I'd say Rowand has to be hitting below .240 or .250 or Reed has to really tear up Charlotte to see a move in the next three or four weeks. Until then I doubt you'll see anything.

MRKARNO
04-16-2004, 02:08 PM
Just a note about AAA Charlotte in general:

How in the heck do we have the no. 1 pitching staff in the IL and the 2nd worst hitting when they play in that bandbox? Maybe Diaz, Rauch and Co really are that good

Randar68
04-16-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Just a note about AAA Charlotte in general:

How in the heck do we have the no. 1 pitching staff in the IL and the 2nd worst hitting when they play in that bandbox? Maybe Diaz, Rauch and Co really are that good

The fact a pitcher like Rauch ever wins there as a fly-ball pitcher says more about him than box-score-monkeys will ever give him credit for.



I'd like to see Reed get about 100 AB's. If's he's still producing, it's time. He won't be promoted until he is expected to start just about every game. Rowand still badly misplays balls hit right at him, and he's not exactly tearing the cover off the ball despite yesterday's HR.

soxtalker
04-16-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Let's not even think about calling him up until

A. He has at least 100 At bats

or

B. He would be starting 4 or 5 times a week over Rowand and/or Timo

It would be nice if Reed was ready and we could trade Rowand to a team that needs a 4th outfielder and get a decent middle reliever in return

Or, if contract talks break down, trade Maggs for a top pitcher? (Had to throw in something controversial.)

soxfan26
04-16-2004, 02:18 PM
Reed should get a few more at bats in. Rowand will play himself out of a job by the All-Star break.

Brian26
04-16-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Seriously...when does everyone think we see Reed up here? If he keeps hitting for the next 2 weeks, it's going to be hard to keep him down there, isn't it

Seriously, do you think the quality of pitching down there is 1/10th of what it is at the major league level? Bringing Reed up right now accomplishes nothing. It would completely screw Rowand's confidence up (who hit a homer yesterday and is playing fine), in addition to without a doubt rushing Reed (who absolutely needs more seasoning down there, no matter what anybody says).

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Randar68
04-16-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Seriously, do you think the quality of pitching down there is 1/10th of what it is at the major league level? Bringing Reed up right now accomplishes nothing. It would completely screw Rowand's confidence up (who hit a homer yesterday and is playing fine), in addition to without a doubt rushing Reed (who absolutely needs more seasoning down there, no matter what anybody says).

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Sorry, but who are the Sox facing with terrific pitching staffs? Detroit? KC? Cleveland? Minnesota???

I think there might be about 5 competent/experienced starters on those 4 teams combined.

Randar68
04-16-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
Reed should get a few more at bats in. Rowand will play himself out of a job by the All-Star break.

I don't imagine it'll actually take that long. That guy runs the worst routes to balls...

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I don't imagine it'll actually take that long. That guy runs the worst routes to balls... Lol, not lately, or ever from what I recall. Rowand has been reading the ball well.

Randar68
04-16-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Lol, not lately, or ever from what I recall. Rowand has been reading the ball well.

Yep, taking a circular route to balls hit straight at him and in front of him, getting turned around twice by Beltran's HR to CF that barely cleared the wall, having about 5-10 balls hit at his feet because he got late breaks...

Are you watching the Cubs games?

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yep, taking a circular route to balls hit straight at him and in front of him, getting turned around twice by Beltran's HR to CF that barely cleared the wall, having about 5-10 balls hit at his feet because he got late breaks...

Are you watching the Cubs games? You are going to tell me he had any shot at that Beltran homerun? Tell me one play this year that he botched.

Iwritecode
04-16-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


I don't imagine it'll actually take that long. That guy runs the worst routes to balls...


Originally posted by SEALgep
Lol, not lately, or ever from what I recall. Rowand has been reading the ball well.

:beatingadeadhorse

Randar68
04-16-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
You are going to tell me he had any shot at that Beltran homerun? Tell me one play this year that he botched.

Sorry, you don't need to make an error to be an inadequate defensive player.

He can't judge balls hit right at him.

The Beltran HR was indicative of his problem. He's too short to have any chance at anything over the wall, so it doesn't matter, but he made it to the wall when the ball cleared it, but getting all turned around on it gave him no shot to make a play on it...

I'd take Slow-swing back 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Sorry, you don't need to make an error to be an inadequate defensive player.

He can't judge balls hit right at him.

The Beltran HR was indicative of his problem. He's too short to have any chance at anything over the wall, so it doesn't matter, but he made it to the wall when the ball cleared it, but getting all turned around on it gave him no shot to make a play on it...

I'd take Slow-swing back 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. Whatever buddy, anything less than super man isn't going to please you in center. He's made some pretty nice plays, including holding some guys to singles (from good reads) as well as some grabs. The fact that he couldn't get to the wall on an absolute smash to dead center by Beltran isn't enough to convince me he sucks. He had no shot at it, and even Tori Hunter wouldn't have made that play. Rowand has proved he could rob a homerun or two last year. Also, I didn't say tell me about an error he made this year, I said a botched play. There are none, even including you're debate of some magically leap he should have made.

Brian26
04-16-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Sorry, but who are the Sox facing with terrific pitching staffs? Detroit? KC? Cleveland? Minnesota???

I think there might be about 5 competent/experienced starters on those 4 teams combined.

Last time I checked, we're playing the Yankees 7 times in April, who have Kevin Brown, Mike Mussina, Javier Vasquez, and Jose Contreras. There are 4 more "competent" starters to add to your list.

Win1ForMe
04-16-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yep, taking a circular route to balls hit straight at him and in front of him, getting turned around twice by Beltran's HR to CF that barely cleared the wall, having about 5-10 balls hit at his feet because he got late breaks...

Are you watching the Cubs games?

This is so true. He's just not a very good defensive CF.

And on a sidenote, is there another player anyone can think of with a higher "number of steps-to-distance covered" ratio?

He's lucky he doesn't trip over his own feet out there.

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
This is so true. He's just not a very good defensive CF.

And on a sidenote, is there another player anyone can think of with a higher "number of steps-to-distance covered" ratio?

He's lucky he doesn't trip over his own feet out there. So lucky, he makes the play every time. I wish I was that lucky.

Randar68
04-16-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
So lucky, he makes the play every time. I wish I was that lucky.


*****! You are seriously watching something else. There have been a dozen balls in this first 10 games hit in front of him he had such late brakes on he couldn't make the play. His arm and accuracy are so respected that EVERYONE runs on him...

You're blind as a bat.

Randar68
04-16-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Last time I checked, we're playing the Yankees 7 times in April, who have Kevin Brown, Mike Mussina, Javier Vasquez, and Jose Contreras. There are 4 more "competent" starters to add to your list.

Hmmm, we've already played 4 of those and the other 3 are next week, which means we will not be playing them again by the time I have suggested he be called up.

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
*****! You are seriously watching something else. There have been a dozen balls in this first 10 games hit in front of him he had such late brakes on he couldn't make the play. His arm and accuracy are so respected that EVERYONE runs on him...

You're blind as a bat. I feel the same towards you. Can you name these plays, because I've seen them all this year and have no idea what you're talking about. Oh wait, I know one of them. The play were he didn't do a 20 foot jump over the CF wall. Okay what are the other 11, lol.

maurice
04-16-2004, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Tell me one play this year that he botched.

This is the only relevant way to judge his defense. It really doesn't matter how ugly he looks when he (1) makes the play, or (2) had no chance of making the play.

There's no arguing with results (though we sure can try). :cool:

Randar68
04-16-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I feel the same towards you. Can you name these plays, because I've seen them all this year and have no idea what you're talking about. Oh wait, I know one of them. The play were he didn't do a 20 foot jump over the CF wall. Okay what are the other 11, lol.

Frankly, I'm only really talking about balls directly in front of him. I saw 4 of them alone in the Royals series. 2 times it happenned during Wednesday's game in the 4 innings I was able to watch on my lunch break.

Are you Harry Teinowitz in real life?

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by maurice
This is the only relevant way to judge his defense. It really doesn't matter how ugly he looks when he (1) makes the play, or (2) had no chance of making the play.

There's no arguing with results (though we sure can try). :cool: Exactly.

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Frankly, I'm only really talking about balls directly in front of him. I saw 4 of them alone in the Royals series. 2 times it happenned during Wednesday's game in the 4 innings I was able to watch on my lunch break.

Are you Harry Teinowitz in real life? So he was located perfectly to get these balls, and he went back thinking they were going behind him and as he recognized they were in fact in front of him he was unable to make the play? Is that what you're saying? That frankly didn't happen if that is indeed what you're saying.

MRKARNO
04-16-2004, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Frankly, I'm only really talking about balls directly in front of him. I saw 4 of them alone in the Royals series. 2 times it happenned during Wednesday's game in the 4 innings I was able to watch on my lunch break.


Randar, you seem to be the expert on these types of things so I'm gonna trust you on this one. I havent seen Rowand do it, but I could see how I would miss it. If true, that would mean it's his fault for a lot more runs than he's able to create.

Randar68
04-16-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
So he was located perfectly to get these balls, and he went back thinking they were going behind him and as he recognized they were in fact in front of him he was unable to make the play? Is that what you're saying? That frankly didn't happen if that is indeed what you're saying.

Nope, he almost always miss-plays them to one side, sometimes freezing briefly in his tracks. The ball often short-hops him as a result of those extra 2-3 steps he's creating by taking bad reads/routes. He is usually OK on balls to the gap, although he sometimes comes at an angle too far in before curving towards the wall.

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Nope, he almost always miss-plays them to one side, sometimes freezing briefly in his tracks. The ball often short-hops him as a result of those extra 2-3 steps he's creating by taking bad reads/routes. He is usually OK on balls to the gap, although he sometimes comes at an angle too far in before curving towards the wall. I simply don't agree that he isn't a good CF.

Brian26
04-16-2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Hmmm, we've already played 4 of those and the other 3 are next week, which means we will not be playing them again by the time I have suggested he be called up.

Of course we've already played 4 of those. And we play the Yankees 3 times next week. I'm replying to what you said...


Sorry, but who are the Sox facing with terrific pitching staffs? Detroit? KC? Cleveland? Minnesota???

You said call up Reed after 100 at-bats, which I presume might be sometime in early May?

We don't play Detroit until the end of July . We won't be playing Kansas City again until August. We do play Minnesota in May, but I don't see Radke, Santana and Lohse as push-overs. They beat us last year. Come on, Randar.

You're talking in circles. If you want him up here now, he'll face the Yankees. If you want him up here at the end of July (well after 100 at-bats), he'll facely the lowly Tigers (who OWNED us last year).

No matter when we bring him up, he's going to face MUCH stiffer competition in a MUCH more difficult environment, and my guess is that Rowand is doing better now than Reed would in the same position. The kid just needs more seasoning.

Brian26
04-16-2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Nope, he almost always miss-plays them to one side, sometimes freezing briefly in his tracks. The ball often short-hops him as a result of those extra 2-3 steps he's creating by taking bad reads/routes. He is usually OK on balls to the gap, although he sometimes comes at an angle too far in before curving towards the wall.

Randar, are you at all of these games? You're talking like you're a scout in the stands, and I'm hoping you're not claiming to get a read on Rowand's jumps and how good his routes are by watching games on television.

jeremyb1
04-16-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
The fact a pitcher like Rauch ever wins there as a fly-ball pitcher says more about him than box-score-monkeys will ever give him credit for.

I'd like to see Reed get about 100 AB's. If's he's still producing, it's time. He won't be promoted until he is expected to start just about every game. Rowand still badly misplays balls hit right at him, and he's not exactly tearing the cover off the ball despite yesterday's HR.

The "box score monkeys" you speak of are obsessed with the idea of adjusting statistics for park effects so I think you're a little off there.

jeremyb1
04-16-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
without a doubt rushing Reed (who absolutely needs more seasoning down there, no matter what anybody says).

Hahaha. That's a good argument Reed needs more seasoning because I say so and it doesn't matter what anyone else says? Ok...

Randar68
04-16-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Randar, are you at all of these games? You're talking like you're a scout in the stands, and I'm hoping you're not claiming to get a read on Rowand's jumps and how good his routes are by watching games on television.

It is far more noticeable in person, and 99% of people are watching the ball, so casual fans just see the player make the play, in this case, often a routine one is made to look very difficult.

In my experience, few, if any, players who make routine plays look so hard are above-average defensively. Always being on the move means your feet are never set to throw, etc etc etc. When I watch on TV, I simply pay extra attention to the replays, and sometimes the angle during the game can give you a read. In the case the other day, I watched 4 innings on TV and clearly saw, by the reply, Rowand take circuitous routes to balls that most good CF'ers would have caught or been able to make a play. Neither time did Rowand play the ball properly. He's a LF'er forced into a CF role.

On top of that, I have never been able to envision Rowand being better than a 20HR or .275 hitter, hardly enough to justify is defensive abilities.

Randar68
04-16-2004, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
The "box score monkeys" you speak of are obsessed with the idea of adjusting statistics for park effects so I think you're a little off there.

Nope, those are stat-heads. Box Score Monkeys are the ones who look at each day's score and complain about prospect X because:

1) Too many BB's
2) Not enough K's
3) Too many HR's or ER's
4) Too many hits

These kind of knee-jerk reactions from people can drive me nuts.

Paulwny
04-16-2004, 05:24 PM
Rowand definately did a 360 on a ball hit directly to cf in yankmee stadium. It scares the hell out of me when runners are on the bases.

Daver
04-16-2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
:beatingadeadhorse


I think you are looking for this IWC.http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/deadhorse.gif

SEALgep
04-16-2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I think you are looking for this IWC.http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/deadhorse.gif Is it dead?

Brian26
04-16-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Hahaha. That's a good argument Reed needs more seasoning because I say so and it doesn't matter what anyone else says? Ok...

Something very scary, Jeremy...

If you go back and look at the post count on this:

This reply was your post #2492. My post, to which you were replying, was my post #2492.

Kinda Spooky.

batmanZoSo
04-16-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Let's not even think about calling him up until

A. He has at least 100 At bats

or

B. He would be starting 4 or 5 times a week over Rowand and/or Timo

It would be nice if Reed was ready and we could trade Rowand to a team that needs a 4th outfielder and get a decent middle reliever in return

Yeah let's trade Rowand to Colorado...

And watch the "why'd we trade this guy" threads multiply.

batmanZoSo
04-16-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Brian26

the lowly Tigers (who [B]OWNED us last year).

B]

11-8 record, plus outscoring them 93-55 = they owned us

Randar68
04-16-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Yeah let's trade Rowand to Colorado...

And watch the "why'd we trade this guy" threads multiply.

Yep, "The Human Pylon" is really tearing it up...

batmanZoSo
04-16-2004, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yep, "The Human Pylon" is really tearing it up...

For the record, I didn't say we'd regret trading Rowand...twas not the point of my post. Well, we would regret it...but only because people would post every time he got a hit like with Miles.