PDA

View Full Version : Reinsdorf OUT!


jlh0023
04-15-2004, 04:13 PM
Consider this a petition to somehow get Reinsdorf the hell away from the Sox organization....

munchman33
04-15-2004, 04:17 PM
This poll would make more sense if:

1. We didn't just win.

2. We weren't in first place.

3. We didn't have one of the highest payroll in the American League.

jlh0023
04-15-2004, 04:18 PM
i'll take that as a vote for reinsdorf

voodoochile
04-15-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
This poll would make more sense if:

1. We didn't just win.

2. We weren't in first place.

3. We didn't have one of the highest payroll in the American League.

What's our rank in terms of payroll this season? I am curious...

munchman33
04-15-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023
i'll take that as a vote for reinsdorf

For today.

mike squires
04-15-2004, 04:19 PM
:moron

This thread is just like my columns, It Sucks!!!

CHISOXFAN13
04-15-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
What's our rank in terms of payroll this season? I am curious...

I'm pretty sure we are 5th in the AL. Not sure where it ranks in all of MLB.

nitetrain8601
04-15-2004, 04:20 PM
I think we are 4 or 5 in terms of AL payroll. BTW, I want JR to stay. There's nothing like a little contreversey with ownership in Chicago sports.

Baby Fisk
04-15-2004, 04:21 PM
Naaah, the more successful this team gets, the deeper JR's claws will sink in. There's no way you can compell him to sell. But the mallets idea has given me a great visual for the rest of the night ha ha!

munchman33
04-15-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023
i'll take that as a vote for reinsdorf

5th in A.L. The only teams higher are Anaheim, Boston, New York, and Seattle.

You'd wouldn't think that though with the way people around here complain.

jlh0023
04-15-2004, 04:27 PM
people complain because rumor is he is hesitating greatly to resign maggs, and he has a history of letting great players leave before they should. maggs was brought up here, he should stay here.

eurotrash35
04-15-2004, 04:27 PM
He should give the team to me.

voodoochile
04-15-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
5th in A.L. The only teams higher are Anaheim, Boston, New York, and Seattle.

You'd wouldn't think that though with the way people around here complain.

How much below the 4th team are they in terms of dollars?

How much lower is the payroll than the average of these top 4 teams in terms of percentage?

How close to #6 are they?

Stats can be deceiving... The Sox payroll is $65M?

Anoyone got a link to these payroll numbers?

soxnut
04-15-2004, 04:49 PM
There should be a "no" vote to this poll as well. I hate biased polling. I vote for keeping JR. :smile:

munchman33
04-15-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How much below the 4th team are they in terms of dollars?

How much lower is the payroll than the average of these top 4 teams in terms of percentage?

How close to #6 are they?

Stats can be deceiving... The Sox payroll is $65M?

Anoyone got a link to these payroll numbers?

Everyone else is under 58 million, most under 50. You can any teams payroll from mlb.com.

jlh0023
04-15-2004, 04:56 PM
how do you get to the payroll info on mlb.com?

jlh0023
04-15-2004, 04:59 PM
also, for those of you concerned about our payroll compared to others you must remember that we share one of the largest baseball markets in the majors. and also we have been contending for playoff spots for several years in a row and have not dished out to go the extra step

gogosoxgogo
04-15-2004, 05:13 PM
American League Payrolls (in millions):

New York: $195.18
Boston: $129.54
Anaheim: $114.43
Seattle: $93.79
Texas: $72.02
Baltimore: $68.47
Chicago: $63.92
Toronto: $61.83
Detroit: $59.29
Oakland: $56.16
Minnesota: $54.56
Kansas City: $53.50
Cleveland: $40.24
Tampa Bay: $29.86

Avg. of Teams in front of Sox: $112.24

Avg. of Teams behind Sox: $50.78

The Sox are nowhere near they need to be in terms of payroll. People, we are playing in the third largest market in the United States! Look at the discrepency between the avg of the teams in front of us and the avg of the teams behind us. We are much closer to being towards the bottom. I'm not saying the Sox need to go out and spend like the Yankees, but a $60 million payroll isn't going to cut it in Chicago! Take a look at some of the teams in front of us. We have a substantially bigger market than 4/6 of them (Anaheim, Seattle, Texas, Baltimore). We're seventh in the AL and 18TH! in the entire league. Teams like Arizona, Colorado, and San Diego are ahead of us!

Reinsdorf needs to go. He is unwilling to spend the money that it takes to win. If we had that one extra ingredient these past couple of years, we could have had it. Instead, the Chariman decides to blame the team's ineptitude on the fans for not supporting an inferior team. It doesn't work that Jerry! Build us a winner and then we will be glad to support you.

OurBitchinMinny
04-15-2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
5th in A.L. The only teams higher are Anaheim, Boston, New York, and Seattle.

You'd wouldn't think that though with the way people around here complain.

What about Baltimore and Texas. Texas is still got some Arod money counting against the, that ridiculous chan ho contract and soriano. Baltimore went out got Tejada, Lopez, and Palmerio. I think the sox are around 58 mill. I would guess baltimore is more.

voodoochile
04-15-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
American League Payrolls (in millions):

New York: $195.18
Boston: $129.54
Anaheim: $114.43
Seattle: $93.79
Texas: $72.02
Baltimore: $68.47
Chicago: $63.92
Toronto: $61.83
Detroit: $59.29
Oakland: $56.16
Minnesota: $54.56
Kansas City: $53.50
Cleveland: $40.24
Tampa Bay: $29.86

Avg. of Teams in front of Sox: $112.24

Avg. of Teams behind Sox: $50.78


Thanks. I was just about to post these answers when you jumped in. The fact is the Sox are in 7th, not 5th as was earlier stated, or squarely in the middle of the pack.

Even if you knock off the high and the low (which admittedly are extreme by anyone's standards), you still get an average of $95.65M for the teams in front of the Sox meaning they have a payroll that is 33% lower than the average of the teams in front of them (not including the Yankees). To put it another way, they would have to up their payroll by 50% to get to the average of those teams.

Meanwhile, the teams below them are at $54.26M (again, not including Tampa Bay) which means the Sox are only outspending the bottom half of the league by 15.11%.

That's not fiscal responsiblity, it's downright stupid in a market this size.

munchman33
04-15-2004, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
American League Payrolls (in millions):

New York: $195.18
Boston: $129.54
Anaheim: $114.43
Seattle: $93.79
Texas: $72.02
Baltimore: $68.47
Chicago: $63.92
Toronto: $61.83
Detroit: $59.29
Oakland: $56.16
Minnesota: $54.56
Kansas City: $53.50
Cleveland: $40.24
Tampa Bay: $29.86

Avg. of Teams in front of Sox: $112.24

Avg. of Teams behind Sox: $50.78

The Sox are nowhere near they need to be in terms of payroll. People, we are playing in the third largest market in the United States! Look at the discrepency between the avg of the teams in front of us and the avg of the teams behind us. We are much closer to being towards the bottom. I'm not saying the Sox need to go out and spend like the Yankees, but a $60 million payroll isn't going to cut it in Chicago! Take a look at some of the teams in front of us. We have a substantially bigger market than 4/6 of them (Anaheim, Seattle, Texas, Baltimore). We're seventh in the AL and 18TH! in the entire league. Teams like Arizona, Colorado, and San Diego are ahead of us!

Reinsdorf needs to go. He is unwilling to spend the money that it takes to win. If we had that one extra ingredient these past couple of years, we could have had it. Instead, the Chariman decides to blame the team's ineptitude on the fans for not supporting an inferior team. It doesn't work that Jerry! Build us a winner and then we will be glad to support you.

Where is your link? I've seen at least 10 sites with salary figures for teams, and not once did I see these numbers. Anyway, here's the USA Today page with salaries. It clearly shows us fifth amongst American League Teams, as I said earlier. If you have another more updated page, please let us know.


http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2004

voodoochile
04-15-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
Where is your link? I've seen at least 10 sites with salary figures for teams, and not once did I see these numbers. Anyway, here's the USA Today page with salaries. It clearly shows us fifth amongst American League Teams, as I said earlier. If you have another more updated page, please let us know.


http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2004

Dugout Dollars (http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2003_06_08_dugoutdollars_archive.html) disagrees...

Your site was last updated on 12/10/2003 might explain the discrepancy

munchman33
04-15-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Dugout Dollars (http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2003_06_08_dugoutdollars_archive.html) disagrees...

Your site was last updated on 12/10/2003 might explain the discrepancy

LOL this sight is someone's personal blog. Why should I trust it? Nowhere does he list sources, simply his first name. Bring me something solid please.

Anyway, if we're trusting him, his numbers aren't updated on the page you gave me. Click the individual links for teams for an update figure. For example, he lists Texas at 72 million, which we know they're not. When you click the link, you see the actual number, 52 million, actually lower than the sight I gave.

voodoochile
04-15-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
LOL this sight is someone's personal blog. Why should I trust it? Nowhere does he list sources, simply his first name. Bring me something solid please.

Anyway, if we're trusting him, his numbers aren't updated on the page you gave me. Click the individual links for teams for an update figure. For example, he lists Texas at 72 million, which we know they're not. When you click the link, you see the actual number, 52 million, actually lower than the sight I gave.

No, he lists the total they are paying which includes the money they are paying ARod still. The numbers match, they just match a different line than you were looking at. He also includes benefit payments in his numbers.

By the line you looked at, the Sox are only paying 56.75M in salary this year...

jcirish85
04-15-2004, 07:23 PM
:threadsucks

voodoochile
04-15-2004, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by jcirish85
:threadsucks

JR is that you?

gogosoxgogo
04-15-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
Where is your link? I've seen at least 10 sites with salary figures for teams, and not once did I see these numbers. Anyway, here's the USA Today page with salaries. It clearly shows us fifth amongst American League Teams, as I said earlier. If you have another more updated page, please let us know.


http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2004

I used dugout dollars which voodoo posted. Your USA Today site does not include money that teams are paying for people not on their 40 man rosters (ie. Texas is paying for ARod and I believe Rusty Greer). Also, dugout dollars takes into account the luxury tax. Overall, dugout dollars is much more accurate than the USA Today thing you have.

munchman33
04-15-2004, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
I used dugout dollars which voodoo posted. Your USA Today site does not include money that teams are paying for people not on their 40 man rosters (ie. Texas is paying for ARod and I believe Rusty Greer). Also, dugout dollars takes into account the luxury tax. Overall, dugout dollars is much more accurate than the USA Today thing you have.

Yes, the young man is including Rusty Greer's contract, but the Rangers aren't paying that. The insurance company is.

Enough said.

voodoochile
04-15-2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
Yes, the young man is including Rusty Greer's contract, but the Rangers aren't paying that. The insurance company is.

Enough said.

Okay, so one freaking mistake makes the whole site worthless? It's still been updated more recently than that USA site you are using which probably doesn't even include the glut of money the Orioles spent toward the end of 2003/early 2004 and explains why they have them below the Sox.

And congratulations, you've managed to change the subject.

Okay, now back to ripping JR for being cheap.

Let's take your numbers as the gospel. The Sox would have to spend over 50% more to climb up a single slot and are much much closer to 6th, etc. than they are to 4th (and it's not even close). Nothing changes those facts. If your numbers are more accurate (and I'm not saying they are), it still doesn't make JR some amazing owner. He is cheap. He is tight. He is slowly tearing the franchise apart with his self imposed budgets and terrible PR/Marketing.

5th in the AL on your list is merely a nice was of looking at the stats. Sort of like saying Juan Uribe is hitting .412. It makes him look good but it doesn't change the facts...

jcirish85
04-15-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
JR is that you?
the sox have the 5th highest payroll in the AL. they dont have the 5th highest attendance in the AL, not by a longshot. A 65 million dollar payroll is a good compromise for the owners and the fans. i think if kenny would have made some moves, this team could have been a lot better but i still like this team. minnesota let everyone go and they had a higher attendance average and made it to the playoffs. now that is a really cheap owner. i'm not saying reinsdorf isnt cheap but this isnt the year to say how cheap he is.

voodoochile
04-15-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by jcirish85
the sox have the 5th highest payroll in the AL. they dont have the 5th highest attendance in the AL, not by a longshot. A 65 million dollar payroll is a good compromise for the owners and the fans. i think if kenny would have made some moves, this team could have been a lot better but i still like this team. minnesota let everyone go and they had a higher attendance average and made it to the playoffs. now that is a really cheap owner. i'm not saying reinsdorf isnt cheap but this isnt the year to say how cheap he is.

I disagree and your analysis says nothing about other revenue streams which are among the best in the AL (TV, Radio, etc.).

JR let every free agent they acquired last year walk away. I call that cheap.

munchman33
04-15-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I disagree and your analysis says nothing about other revenue streams which are among the best in the AL (TV, Radio, etc.).

JR let every free agent they acquired last year walk away. I call that cheap.

Well, I wasn't thrilled that our payroll actually went down $5 million over the offseason. But I don't blame him for losing our free agents. For the money Anaheim is paying Colon, they can have him. Same with Gordon. And there's no way I'm giving Carl Everett, Alomar, or Graf big money.

I would have liked them to match last seasons payroll though.

jcirish85
04-15-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by munchman33


I would have liked them to match last seasons payroll though.

Wasn't the payroll 52 million last year? i'm not sure but i think it was. i agree with you. Anahiem would definatley outbid the sox for colon. right now, it seems good that the sox didnt sign him, because maggs is tearing it up. maggs, of course, would have been traded is the sox signed colon. the yankeees wanted gordon, so it would be stupid to enter a bidding war. everett is now hurt but i stil would have like him on the team, however his and ozzies personality would not mix and there would be controversy. Roberto Alomar is old, enough said. the one free agent the sox should have signed is scot sullivan. i think you can criticize reinsy for not resigning him, especially the way the BP is shaping out. its not a problem of payroll, its a problem of overpaying players and backloading contracts.

pudge
04-16-2004, 12:09 PM
Highest Opening Day payroll in franchise history. *** is up with some people?

voodoochile
04-16-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Highest Opening Day payroll in franchise history. *** is up with some people?

This is another example of 103 wrongs still not equaling a right...

*** is up with the JR supporters? I mean honestly, why do you folks defend him so vehemently? Am I missing some miraculous thing he has done for the team?

Baby Fisk
04-16-2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
*** is up with the JR supporters? I mean honestly, why do you folks defend him so vehemently? Am I missing some miraculous thing he has done for the team?

He implemented the longest-running rebuilding project in human history, one for the scholars to marvel over.

...and he brought back Harold Baines! Dat's worth gold! :D:

owensmouth
04-16-2004, 01:25 PM
What about those teams that are above the White Sox on the list.

The Yankees make so much money they could own three or four teams.

Boston is a one team city and the entire population is willing to pay any amount to beat the Yankees. They own all of New England.

Anaheim is similar to the White Sox, the second team in the town (Los Angeles). Yes, I know that their address says Anaheim, but Orange County owes it's existance to Los Angeles. The Dodgers are the team in LA, but the people are not like Chicagoans. LA supports whoever is winning. In October 2002, everyone switched from blue to red. Suddenly everyone was an Angel fan. A winning team fills up Anaheim stadium. The new owner is a billionare willing to advertise and spend to accomplish his goals. It's a complete about face from the Disney years.

Seattle is a smaller town, but its nearest major league competitor is Oakland. They consistently put more people into their ballpark.

Baltimore is another one team town and they draw better from a wider area. Their nearest competition is Pliladelphia.

The Rangers are in Dallas/Arlington/Fort Worth, again a one team metropolitan area. They learned what happens when you overspend. As I remember, they're paying 10 million a year for the Yankees to have A Rod. Deduct that from their budget and they become number seven.

I will add one other thing. Let's say that Magglio had been traded to the Red Sox and we got Nomar. And let's also say that we had resigned Bartolo. Let's also say that we replaced Maggs by signing Vlad Guerrero. Now let me ask you: how many more people would have been in the Cell for yesterday's game? Would there have been sellouts for all three games?

jlh0023
04-18-2004, 08:03 PM
There is clearly an obvious answer here. The supporters of dropping JR on the street win, because our side used the word vehemently in one of their posts. By the way vehemently means: Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion or conviction; fervid: a vehement denial. See Synonyms at intense.
Marked by or full of vigor or energy; strong: a vehement storm. Its over, plus JR sucks

munchman33
04-18-2004, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by jlh0023
There is clearly an obvious answer here. The supporters of dropping JR on the street win, because our side used the word vehemently in one of their posts. By the way vehemently means: Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion or conviction; fervid: a vehement denial. See Synonyms at intense.
Marked by or full of vigor or energy; strong: a vehement storm. Its over, plus JR sucks

Your reasoning is asinine. Asinine meaning utterly stupid or silly; of, relating to, or resembling an ass.

Mohoney
04-19-2004, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by munchman33
5th in A.L. The only teams higher are Anaheim, Boston, New York, and Seattle.

You'd wouldn't think that though with the way people around here complain.

Plus, Reinsdorf actually owns less than 30% of the team. Therefore, payroll complaints should be divided amongst the rest of the investors, too.

Don't get me wrong, the payroll should have been placed at about 75-80 million so we could keep Colon and cakewalk through this division. However, I feel confident that either Benson or Leiter will be available at the deadline.

A 5-man rotation of Buehrle, Loaiza, Leiter, Garland, Schoenweis?

That blows the rest of the Central away.

red faber
04-19-2004, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
There should be a "no" vote to this poll as well. I hate biased polling. I vote for keeping JR. :smile:



WHY????????????????????

muckdogs624
04-19-2004, 10:28 AM
What is so wrong with Reinsdorf??? What has he done to create such harsh criticism? Have we forgotten how much success he has had?

voodoochile
04-19-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by muckdogs624
What is so wrong with Reinsdorf??? What has he done to create such harsh criticism? Have we forgotten how much success he has had?

How much success is that? Have any of his teams made it past the first round of the plyoffs? How many times have they made the playoffs?

His current budget is below league average. He has thrown away a seson rather than trade for help and he was a leader in 1994 in causing the strike and ending the best shot the Sox had at a WS title in the last 44 years.

In addition his actions have directly led to the decimation of the fanbase while handing a whole generation of baseball fans to his direct competition for the hearts and the minds of the city.

What's to like about this guy?

:selljerry

Other than that, Welcome Aboard! :D:

poorme
04-19-2004, 11:27 AM
Listening the the Angels/A's game, the announcers were talking about Omar Moreno, the new Angels owner (I think that's his name.) Anyway this guy became a multi-multi-millionaire in the advertising field....so I would assume he knows a few things about selling a product. First things he did when he bought the team was cut ticket and concession prices, and go out and spend a ton on free agents.

And we get a former IRS executive for an owner....

guillen4life13
04-19-2004, 05:42 PM
And the thing (that JR should be noticing) is that Moreno is almost guaranteed to cash in on the moves he's made.

Signing Vlad alone has probably upped the attendance they'll get this year has done so much. Adding Bartolo and the other moves strengthen their attendance even more. Lowering prices ups it even further. Now they're at the point where sellouts should be the norm (or close to the norm). On top of that, he's got Angels billboards all over LA, and he's making no secret of his intentions to take over the LA market. He's proving that he wants a winner by putting his money where his mouth is, and he's proving that he cares about the fans. What a concept!

The Sox pull off these kinds of moves, their attendance skyrockets. Lower ticket prices, concession prices. Get some marquis players that can REALLY put them over the top (as in, no Todd Ritchie type moves--more Bartolo like moves). Start advertising all over the city, and advertise the new pickups. And it can't be just one pickup--you have to make multiple noteworthy pickups over the offseason, and market them.

gogosoxgogo
04-19-2004, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How much success is that? Have any of his teams made it past the first round of the plyoffs? How many times have they made the playoffs?

His current budget is below league average. He has thrown away a seson rather than trade for help and he was a leader in 1994 in causing the strike and ending the best shot the Sox had at a WS title in the last 44 years.

In addition his actions have directly led to the decimation of the fanbase while handing a whole generation of baseball fans to his direct competition for the hearts and the minds of the city.

What's to like about this guy?

:selljerry

Other than that, Welcome Aboard! :D:

I get the feeling he was being sarcastic voodoo... :D: