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South Side
04-14-2004, 08:22 PM
"I am ticked, but at the same time I got to tip my cap," Koch said. "I made some good pitches. I'm definitely disappointed I couldn't get the job done."


He's kidding right?

sas1974
04-14-2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by South Side
"I am ticked, but at the same time I got to tip my cap," Koch said. "I made some good pitches. I'm definitely disappointed I couldn't get the job done."


He's kidding right?

I am guessing that there are several guys in the visitor's dugout that would also agree that he made some good pitches.

ScottyTheSoxFan
04-14-2004, 08:26 PM
GET OUT KOCH!

South Side
04-14-2004, 08:26 PM
I think the "good pitches" are canceled out when you blow a what was it 3, 4 run lead!

dickallen15
04-14-2004, 08:35 PM
He also said the bomb he gave up, blowing the game in Tampa last year was not hit hard. He blows, thank God the Sox still won in spite of him.

johnny174
04-14-2004, 08:39 PM
both him and marte, but especially him having these kinds of problems is really really bad. god, as if being a white sox fan isn't hard enough, a proven closer can't get his act together after more than a year when he comes to the south side.

davidleeroth
04-14-2004, 08:40 PM
he did enough speaking on the mound today.

SoxxoS
04-14-2004, 08:40 PM
GET OUT KOCH

Here is the thing. He has become SO bad, that he is not going to be effective in middle relief, either.

RKMeibalane
04-14-2004, 08:40 PM
Get this guy outta' here. All he does is make excuses.

TornLabrum
04-14-2004, 08:55 PM
Kenny Williams should pretend he's Marshall Dillon and tell this clown to get out of Dodge.

jamteh
04-14-2004, 09:05 PM
Maybe John Rauch can close. He'd be an intimidating one-inning pitcher, and then maybe he wouldn't get hurt as much.

Nick@Nite
04-14-2004, 09:09 PM
... because he's seemingly lost it for good after being so productive in Toronto & Oakland.

For his sake, I'd like to see him start over in the National League... and of course, get some bull pen help in return.

SEALgep
04-14-2004, 09:09 PM
I am going out on a limb and say he still is productive this year. I believe he gets the job done next outing, that could come as early as tomorrow. I still have faith in him. He's not a lights out closer, but before today he looked very much improved. I think he will continue down that path. Although, I have to admit I would feel more cdomfortable with him in save situations where we have a three run lead as opposed to one.

soxfan26
04-14-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Nick@Nite
... because he's seemingly lost it for good after be so productive in Toronto & Oakland.

For his sake, I'd like to see him start over in the National League... and of course, get some bull pen help in return.

The only thing I want to hear Koch say is "bah-bye" on his way out the door!

ChiWhiteSox1337
04-14-2004, 09:14 PM
He said earlier on the score after the blown save that he'll be able to pitch in the 100s by the all star break

DrCrawdad
04-14-2004, 09:18 PM
It's admirable that Koch was willing to go on the radio after getting his (butt) kicked this afternoon.

That Sweeney HR was an absolute bomb. I thought it would end up on the concourse.

Jerko
04-14-2004, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
He said earlier on the score after the blown save that he'll be able to pitch in the 100s by the all star break

Yeah, but instead of MPH he meant ERA.

iwannago
04-14-2004, 09:27 PM
Cut Koch a break I think he'll be OK. I think the fans told him to get his game together when he was removed from the game. I think he'll respond positively.

Nick@Nite
04-14-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
It's admirable that Koch was willing to go on the radio after getting his (butt) kicked this afternoon.

That Sweeney HR was an absolute bomb. I thought it would end up on the concourse.

Yeah... also, The Satellite Beltran hit in the 9th still hasn't landed yet.

duke of dorwood
04-14-2004, 09:30 PM
Funny, he got Matt Staires out, the guy he was lifted for opening day

iwannago
04-14-2004, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Funny, he got Matt Staires out, the guy he was lifted for opening day

Good point. We might have been 6 - 2.

SoxFan76
04-14-2004, 09:35 PM
I feel bad for the guy. He had success before, now he can't get anyone out. It's not like he's a jerk. He's a competitor who wants to succeed. Unfortunately, he sucks ass. Worst part, like it has been said before, is that he can't even pitch in relief since he can't get anybody out.

jcirish85
04-14-2004, 09:36 PM
Man, Koch is so dissapointing. when i saw him pitch on opening day, i thought he had reverted to his previous form because he was hitting 97 and his slider was ok. of course, now he is back to throwing straight 93 mph fastballs right down the center of the plate. If kenny didnt have such a big ego, he would send koch straight to AAA because he has done nothing in a white sox uniform that is major league like.

RedPinStripes
04-14-2004, 09:37 PM
LOL! Who told him he threw some good pitches? Beltran and Sweeny?

soxfan26
04-14-2004, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
Cut Koch a break I think he'll be OK. I think the fans told him to get his game together when he was removed from the game. I think he'll respond positively.

I'll cut Koch a break when he voluntarily cuts $6 million from his own salary so the Sox can go out and get a closer!

Daver
04-14-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by jcirish85
. If kenny didnt have such a big ego, he would send koch straight to AAA because he has done nothing in a white sox uniform that is major league like.

It has nothing to do with KW's ego,and everything to do with money.Koch can refuse an assignment,he has that right,and spend the rest of the season collecting a paycheck while sitting on his couch.

iwannago
04-14-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
I'll cut Koch a break when he voluntarily cuts $6 million from his own salary so the Sox can go out and get a closer!

Would you cut your own salary for bad performance?

soxfan26
04-14-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
Would you cut your own salary for bad performance?

Nope. But I'm not going to cut Koch any slack either. He has proven that he picked up right where he left off last year. And your asking the fans to be nice? please...

beckett21
04-14-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
I feel bad for the guy. He had success before, now he can't get anyone out. It's not like he's a jerk. He's a competitor who wants to succeed. Unfortunately, he sucks ass. Worst part, like it has been said before, is that he can't even pitch in relief since he can't get anybody out.

I don't feel sorry for him one bit. He gets paid good money to do a job which he is obviously unqualified to do.

Enough, enough, enough already. They should be happy to pay him $6 million just to leave. Addition by subtraction. He must have the best agent in the business to steal the Sox money the way he has. There should be laws against that.

Hope for your sake you're saving that money, Billy.

Career=OVER.

Cubbiesuck13
04-14-2004, 09:51 PM
Would you cut your own salary for bad performance?


bob knight would and has

beckett21
04-14-2004, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
Would you cut your own salary for bad performance?

I don't get paid $6 million dollars to *close* major league baseball games. Billy Koch does.

You are right, it's not his fault how much money he makes, more power to him. However, he should be embarassed as hell to face his teammates. They work their asses off for 8 innings for him to come in and destroy all their hard work. Nobody's perfect, but COME ON. It's like a broken record. We don't need to go down this road again. We got out of it today, so all's well that ends well. No more please. The Billy Koch Era must end ASAP.

Could Politte do any worse? Mike Jackson??

Win1ForMe
04-14-2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
He must have the best agent in the business to steal the Sox money the way he has.


That or we could just have a really, really stupid GM. Take your pick.

Personally, I wouldn't boo Koch if I was at the game. I wouldn't boo any athlete as long as they're playing hard and trying. He has to feel terrible about what's going on, and booing him or yelling "Koch sucks" is like kicking a guy while he's down. What's the point?

I blame our coaching staff/GM for putting him in a position for which he's clearly overmatched.

batmanZoSo
04-14-2004, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
I don't get paid $6 million dollars to *close* major league baseball games. Billy Koch does.

You are right, it's not his fault how much money he makes, more power to him. However, he should be embarassed as hell to face his teammates. They work their asses off for 8 innings for him to come in and destroy all their hard work. Nobody's perfect, but COME ON. It's like a broken record. We don't need to go down this road again. We got out of it today, so all's well that ends well. No more please. The Billy Koch Era must end ASAP.

Could Politte do any worse? Mike Jackson??

What about the Garland? That was a real stinko *vintage* Jon Garland performance. He hasn't improved one bit if today was any indication. Cruising along..then gets pounded. Terrible. This is his last year to prove himself.

Our starting pitching has made a sharp turnaround lately. I hope Big Buehrle can turn in 7 or 8 innings tomorrow and save the bullpen.

KruseControl04
04-14-2004, 10:22 PM
In defense of Koch, at the Sox home opener yesterday he looked pretty good. Despite the fact that the defense made a couple of mistakes behind him (essentially giving the Royals 5 outs), he was able to get out of the inning without a run crossing the plate. However, the Sox had a 7 run lead... could the pressure of having to come into a tighter game be getting to Koch?

beckett21
04-14-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
What about the Garland? That was a real stinko *vintage* Jon Garland performance. He hasn't improved one bit if today was any indication. Cruising along..then gets pounded. Terrible. This is his last year to prove himself.

Our starting pitching has made a sharp turnaround lately. I hope Big Buehrle can turn in 7 or 8 innings tomorrow and save the bullpen.

You're right in that Garland shouldn't get a free pass on this one either. I won't make any excuses for him.

Koch gets paid to get THREE outs. With a 3 run lead, irregardless of what Garland did, he should have been able to get those 3 outs. Anyone can get lit up from time to time; fine. It has become a pattern with Koch from which he has yet to deviate.

How many more games does he need to blow before enough is enough?

beckett21
04-14-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by KruseControl04
In defense of Koch, at the Sox home opener yesterday he looked pretty good. Despite the fact that the defense made a couple of mistakes behind him (essentially giving the Royals 5 outs), he was able to get out of the inning without a run crossing the plate. However, the Sox had a 7 run lead... could the pressure of having to come into a tighter game be getting to Koch?

Whoa, if a 3-run lead is TIGHT...whoo-boy it's gonna be a long year.

Usually it's the opposite--if they have a big cushion the concentration is not the same. A closer should THRIVE on a one-run lead.

Dadawg_77
04-14-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
What about the Garland? That was a real stinko *vintage* Jon Garland performance. He hasn't improved one bit if today was any indication. Cruising along..then gets pounded. Terrible. This is his last year to prove himself.

Our starting pitching has made a sharp turnaround lately. I hope Big Buehrle can turn in 7 or 8 innings tomorrow and save the bullpen.

He was tired out there. He should have been pulled earlier.

OurBitchinMinny
04-14-2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by South Side
"I am ticked, but at the same time I got to tip my cap," Koch said. "I made some good pitches. I'm definitely disappointed I couldn't get the job done."


He's kidding right?


I thought the pitch to beltran was ok. It was down and away, out of the strike zone on 1-2. Beltran is a hell of a hitter. The 0-2 pitch to sweeney was up and in and caught way too much of the plate.

SoxxoS
04-14-2004, 11:23 PM
Garland, seriously, is the worst 2 strike pitcher in the major leagues.

By far. It's unbelieveable. That homerun he gave up to Sanchez was a 1-2 pitch, up in the middle of the damn zone. That is just being mentally stupid. He doesn't have that "out" pitch like so many really good pitchers do.

And for the few that say "Kevin Brown didn't really mature until he was 27." Jon Garland doesn't throw 98 mph, either.

Daver
04-14-2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Garland, seriously, is the worst 2 strike pitcher in the major leagues.

By far. It's unbelieveable. That homerun he gave up to Sanchez was a 1-2 pitch, up in the middle of the damn zone. That is just being mentally stupid. He doesn't have that "out" pitch like so many really good pitchers do.

And for the few that say "Kevin Brown didn't really mature until he was 27." Jon Garland doesn't throw 98 mph, either.

Jamie Moyer didn't become an outstanding starter till he was in his thirties,and last time I checked,he doesn't throw anywhere near 98 either.

Please abolish the radar gun from baseball.

CubKilla
04-15-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by jcirish85
when i saw him pitch on opening day, i thought he had reverted to his previous form because he was hitting 97 and his slider was ok. of course, now he is back to throwing straight 93 mph fastballs right down the center of the plate.

I don't think Botch was ever hitting 97 MPH in KC. That radar gun in KC has to be busted. No way. Not after today. 93 MPH tops.

Meixner007
04-15-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by iwannago
Would you cut your own salary for bad performance?

I think somebody else would cut my salary if I wasn't performing.

SoxxoS
04-15-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Jamie Moyer didn't become an outstanding starter till he was in his thirties,and last time I checked,he doesn't throw anywhere near 98 either.

Please abolish the radar gun from baseball.

No doubt, but I believe "the gun" still holds some water. Ask Billy Koch. That 4 mph he lost was obviously huge for him. I don't think Moyer is a fair comparison b/c he isn't the same kind of pitcher Garland is, but K. Brown is. It's just that Kevin Brown had that 97-98 mph 4 seamer to set up his nasty sinker. Garland throws 91 tops, and can't get his curve over, and has a very ordinary change. He just can't get anyone to chase his pitches with 2 strikes...the Royal hitters took a lot of close pitchers for balls on 0-2, 1-2, 2-2 this game.

Hokiesox
04-15-2004, 12:19 AM
5 mil or not, at least we found a roster slot for Wunsch.

pudge
04-15-2004, 12:56 AM
What if Koch was gone? Would everyone have been in favor of trying Wright as closer and giving Rauch the 5th spot? That would have been my goal going into spring training - dump Koch and start training a new closer.

SoxxoS
04-15-2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by pudge
What if Koch was gone? Would everyone have been in favor of trying Wright as closer and giving Rauch the 5th spot? That would have been my goal going into spring training - dump Koch and start training a new closer.

I personally don't think Danny Wright has the
a)mental ability
b)control
To be a successful closer in the major leagues. To me, he is either a bad 5th starter, or a good long relief guy.

I wouldn't mind seeing Rauch get the call to the 5th starter, and Danny moving to long relief, though. I think people are forgetting how bad Danny Wright really is. He isn't good.

Wsoxmike59
04-15-2004, 06:09 AM
One quick fix on how to straighten out Billy Koch might be to send him down to AAA and start him.

I remember Sparky Anderson used to spot start his closers from time to time to keep their arms stretched out. He did it with Clay Carroll and Pedro Borbon.

I think what Billy Koch needs to do is throw, and pile up a few innings. He just can't get enough arm strength the way he's being used right now.

SSN721
04-15-2004, 06:54 AM
I know I will get hammered fro saying this but I think that I would have to say this is the frist game so far that Koch has played very badly, all his other innings werent that bad at all. Just like we cant decide anyone elses worth on the staff til they have more starts or more innings I am not ready to close the book on Koch quite yet either. I still would give him at least 2-3 more chances, if he is gonna be our closer we have give him a few chances. Perhaps when he gets put in in the same situation or a tighter one with the confidence of the manager behind him he will pitch better. I know I sound like I am ignoring all facts and patterns of this guys career but I am just willing to give him at least 2-3 more shots at closing before we find someone else to take his spot.

white sox bill
04-15-2004, 07:34 AM
Billy Bean needs to be arrested for thievery!! And KW needs to stop being so gullible! No wonder evry GM in baseball wants to trade with us

Realist
04-15-2004, 07:54 AM
I didn't get to see the game because I was at school, but two different non-White Sox fans that did see the game told me that Koch got hit really hard on a couple of really good pitches.

I'm not sure what that's worth, but good hitting does beat good pitching. I was at the game on Tuesday and he got out of a 5 out inning fairly nicely. That ain't easy.

I watched the "Konerko Sucks" threads fade away into oblivion. Perhaps these "Koch Sucks" threads will meet the same fate. Only time will tell.

That being said, I don't have much confidense in ANY of our bullpen right now. I wish they'd put my mind at ease. If they don't, I'm gonna have to start working on my knuckler. Wilbur Wood, eat your heart out. :smile:

hsnterprize
04-15-2004, 08:00 AM
I heard him say something to the tune of being satisfied with getting a win even if he does blow a lead. Come on, Billy...this is the another chapter in appearances you've blown a big lead like this. A win is nice, but it shouldn't have to come to this everytime. I personally want him to do well, but I'm not too confident in him. The season opening loss wasn't your fault, but yesterday was ridiculous.

On the positive side, I've seen in the last 2 times he's been on the mound his ability to get to strike 2 quickly after going to 3-2 to almost every better he faced in KC. Now...it's just a matter of getting to strike 3 before he gives up another gopher ball. Do you think he's trying too hard to strike out someone, and instead serving up meat for a hitter?

wdelaney72
04-15-2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
I know I will get hammered fro saying this but I think that I would have to say this is the frist game so far that Koch has played very badly, all his other innings werent that bad at all. Just like we cant decide anyone elses worth on the staff til they have more starts or more innings I am not ready to close the book on Koch quite yet either. I still would give him at least 2-3 more chances, if he is gonna be our closer we have give him a few chances. Perhaps when he gets put in in the same situation or a tighter one with the confidence of the manager behind him he will pitch better. I know I sound like I am ignoring all facts and patterns of this guys career but I am just willing to give him at least 2-3 more shots at closing before we find someone else to take his spot.

I'm not going to hammer you, I would just like to clarify the facts. This may be his first blown save of the season, but you need to consider how crappy he has pitched since coming to the Sox. While with the Sox, Koch has NEVER pitched with any dominance or consistency. He has been absolutley awful.

Becuase of his contract, he will get more opportunities. He will eventually be replaced as he was last year. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone in the bullpen that can compare with Tom Gordon. Danny Wright is not a good starter, because he can't find the strike zone. Finding the srike zone doesn't get any easier as a closing pitcher. So far, Pollite has been the most solid relief pitcher. Do we go with Mike Jackson as setup and Pollite as closer?

Fungo
04-15-2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
I think somebody else would cut my salary if I wasn't performing. Not if it was guaranteed. We need incentive based salaries, make these guys earn it.

soxfan26
04-15-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Fungo
Not if it was guaranteed. We need incentive based salaries, make these guys earn it.

I wonder why the MLBPA never thought of that?

Dadawg_77
04-15-2004, 10:03 AM
One thing is you don't want a guy to be down after a win in clubhouse. You also don't want too happy players after a loss. It is a team game, and attitudes not in line with the team's result are seen as selfish.

Also, why in the world would you want Koch to say he sucked? The minute any professional athlete even thinks that, they are done. Now, I hope Koch feels he has a lot of room to improve but not that he sucks.

SoxFan78
04-15-2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
I know I will get hammered fro saying this but I think that I would have to say this is the frist game so far that Koch has played very badly, all his other innings werent that bad at all. Just like we cant decide anyone elses worth on the staff til they have more starts or more innings I am not ready to close the book on Koch quite yet either. I still would give him at least 2-3 more chances, if he is gonna be our closer we have give him a few chances. Perhaps when he gets put in in the same situation or a tighter one with the confidence of the manager behind him he will pitch better. I know I sound like I am ignoring all facts and patterns of this guys career but I am just willing to give him at least 2-3 more shots at closing before we find someone else to take his spot.

Other innings were not that bad??? Somebody tell me this. When was the last time Koch had a 1-2-3 inning? I can't remember. All I remember is him giving up walks and hits. Maybe he could be a good pitcher. But I don't trust him with a one run lead going into the ninth. Thats for sure.

Think about this, if the Sox would of been the away team, this would be a loss. Cut our losses and move on.

dickallen15
04-15-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Daver
It has nothing to do with KW's ego,and everything to do with money.Koch can refuse an assignment,he has that right,and spend the rest of the season collecting a paycheck while sitting on his couch.

Which is a far better option than letting him collect his paycheck while taking the mound for the White Sox. Release him. Maybe the Sox will get lucky and Minnesota or someone they play 19 times will pick him up, so the White Sox could face him a few times.

Over By There
04-15-2004, 10:47 AM
I heard Koch talking to Bruce Levine this morning... the gist being that Ozzie was seeking him out to reassure him not to worry, etc. after the game.

Koch said something like: Ozzie was looking for me but "I was dropping the kids off at the pool at the time" so I went and saw him later. Classy, Billy. Classy.

sas1974
04-15-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
He doesn't have that "out" pitch like so many really good pitchers do.

I agree that something goes terribly wrong w/ Jon when he gets 2 strikes, but I have to disagree on the lack of an "out pitch." JG has a wicked sinker. He might not got a ton of Ks w/ it, but it's going to (and does) induce a lot ground balls. He just has to FINALLY learn how to waste a pitch or two when he gets ahead in the count.