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View Full Version : Enough of Koch in the 9th


Mots09
04-14-2004, 04:03 PM
It's like throwing freaking gasoline on a damn fire.....


Knew it was going to be bad when he had first batter walk....



Marte must slide into the role of closer

Mots09
04-14-2004, 04:03 PM
As I was typing my first post he gives up yet another JACK....


UNREAL



Here is another idea Billy shave that **** off your chin!

chisox56
04-14-2004, 04:06 PM
Just release him, he is obviously washed up if he loses all his velocity and can't get anyone out.

Randar68
04-14-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Mots09
As I was typing my first post he gives up yet another JACK....


UNREAL



Here is another idea Billy shave that **** off your chin!

GAME DAY THREAD! Are you illiterate?

MikeKreevich
04-14-2004, 04:09 PM
Sorry Randar68, this deserves a thread. The Koch closer experiment must end.

JaylisJP
04-14-2004, 04:09 PM
He's done...it doesn't matter how much our hitters crush the ball this year...our horrible pitching all around will doom us to a .500 record. PERIOD.

Irishsox1
04-14-2004, 04:10 PM
This is a subsect of Game Day Thread that is just for bashing Koch.

My question is how many times has Koch totally blown the game against the Royals? I can think of 4 times since he joined the Sox.

ma-gaga
04-14-2004, 04:14 PM
Koch is what he is. He's never been a dominating pitcher. NEVER. Toronto was glad to pawn him off on Oakland. Oakland knew how to use him, or minimize his wildness.

He's got a rubber arm and throws mid 90s. That's all you need to know. He's best used 2-3 times a week 2 innings at a time. He's screwed here, because KW is going to overreact and bench him.

I guess we'll see. If the W.Sox cut him their bullpen gets better by default. As long as they don't pick up a Terry Mullholland type.

jcirish85
04-14-2004, 04:19 PM
Theres just no other way to put it. He just sucks. I can't put it any other way. I think my mother could picth better than he does. :angry: I guess after times like this, you just have to laugh.

Dadawg_77
04-14-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by jcirish85
Theres just no other way to put it. He just sucks. I can't put it any other way. I think my mother could picth better than he does. :angry: I guess after times like this, you just have to laugh.


Too bad Foulke is on the wrong Sox.

bc2k
04-14-2004, 04:21 PM
I feel bad for the guy. you could tell he was really sorry to be such a horrible pitcher. then i realized that this ******* should feel sorry for me and the rest of us on here. pos

i'm glad ozzie gave koch his chance at the closer's job. it was a new year, new manager, gave him a chance, and koch can only blame himself for losing his role (and the game).

Lost in all this Koch bashing is California Kid Keanu Garland. Can you close the f'n door? one time?

koch is done.

jcirish85
04-14-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Too bad Foulke is on the wrong Sox.
Too bad someone someone doesnt become smart and make marte the closer.

kittle545feet
04-14-2004, 04:50 PM
the reason koch continues to get pounded is because of his fastball. not only did he not hit 94mph with it but it was straight as an arrow with no movement. he is and always has been a two pitch pitcher and the success he has had in his career has been the ability to reach back and throw a 98-100 mph fastball past somone. plus he had some movement on it and was able to fool batters with his breaking stuff. not anymore! i have lost all confidence in this guy and if i was kenny williams, i would start looking! :(:

daveeym
04-14-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
Koch is what he is. He's never been a dominating pitcher. NEVER. Toronto was glad to pawn him off on Oakland. Oakland knew how to use him, or minimize his wildness.

He's got a rubber arm and throws mid 90s. That's all you need to know. He's best used 2-3 times a week 2 innings at a time. He's screwed here, because KW is going to overreact and bench him.

I guess we'll see. If the W.Sox cut him their bullpen gets better by default. As long as they don't pick up a Terry Mullholland type.

Terry mullholland just got picked up by the twins, no worries.

gogosoxgogo
04-14-2004, 04:53 PM
I say we drop Koch and hope to God that someone picks him up. Then, they are stuck with his salary. Hell, even if no one picks him up, he's worth cutting, because Koch can't even pitch mop-up. It's time to cut our losses and admit we made a mistake.

lowesox
04-14-2004, 04:58 PM
Yeah, I think our bullpen is in big trouble. I have a reasonable amount of trust in the supporting cast (Jackson, Marte, Adkins, Politte and Wunsch when he comes back) but it really doesn't look like Koch is going to be the guy at closer this year. The problem is, I know Kenny will want to promote somebody like Politte or Marte to the closer spot and I think that's a big mistake. I think, to be a playoff caliber team, you need to have those guys coming in during the 7th and 8th and have a bonifide closer coming in for the 9th. Does anybody know if there are any solid closers available?

Mickster
04-14-2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Does anybody know if there are any solid closers available?

Not now. Funny part is... Urbina wanted to play here, practically begging Ozzie for a job while staying with him during ST, but of course, the Tigers came in and got him.

Look for available closers come the all star game. Until then..... :?:

dickallen15
04-14-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by chisox56
Just release him, he is obviously washed up if he loses all his velocity and can't get anyone out.

I called for his release in spring training, before he had given up a run. KW was on television with Hawk talking about where his foot was landing. He probably is done, if not, there is obviously no one in the WS organization who has the answer to how to stop the pace in which his skills are declining . He is worse than last year.

owensmouth
04-14-2004, 05:10 PM
Take another look at the score. Our pitchers gave up nine runs in four innings. Garland was throwing gopher balls too. While I was disgusted with Koch, the score shouldn't have been so close.
I am really beginning to like the looks of Adkins.

soxfan26
04-14-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by owensmouth
Take another look at the score. Our pitchers gave up nine runs in four innings. Garland was throwing gopher balls too. While I was disgusted with Koch, the score shouldn't have been so close.
I am really beginning to like the looks of Adkins.

The score shouldn't have been so close? :?:

A closer should be able to operate with a three run lead!

Garland threw 5 scoreless innings and then got tapped for 2 big homers. No comparison with his performance and Koch's.

Bucktown
04-14-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Mots09
It's like throwing freaking gasoline on a damn fire.....


Knew it was going to be bad when he had first batter walk....

Marte must slide into the role of closer

Koch must go, but how is Marte any better? That opening day collapse would have crushed a lesser team. I am ready for fresh faces in the bullpen, or make all the starters go the distance.

Win1ForMe
04-14-2004, 05:22 PM
I posted this when people were creaming in their pants over Koch's save last week.


The thing about Koch is he's fool's gold. Sure, he'll save some games just like he did last year (11/15 IIRC).

It's not like he's completely incompetent. But the longer you keep him in there as the closer, the higher the chances of us getting burned, just like last year.

I think we need to get Billy out of there NOW!

But what has me worried is Marte. Ozzie has not gone to him at all lately, and the time he pitched in New York he didn't seem to have his good velocity.

Either he's hurt or is this year's version of Billy Koch.

DonkeyKongerko
04-14-2004, 05:22 PM
Billy Koch is this year's version of Billy Koch.

chaerulez
04-14-2004, 05:38 PM
Koch is so bad.

I am gonna be over the Sox pen at the Yankees game next Wednesday and you better belief I will yell at Koch.

dpbyron
04-14-2004, 05:41 PM
I hate KROCH

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

KruseControl04
04-14-2004, 05:42 PM
At least Sox fans can rest well tonight knowing that despite Koch's best efforts, the White Sox were able to pull out the victory. I hope Guillen learned his lesson though, and that lesson is to NEVER go to Koch again when the Sox aren't leading by 11 runs or more.

inta
04-14-2004, 05:59 PM
jesus christ. koch has one (extremely) terrible outing and everyone's all over him and calling for MARTE to close?
MARTE??

the best is the fool who started this thread did so before the 2nd HR even happened.

give the guy a few more chances before demmoting the guy out of the closer role. he's done fine all year up till today.
keith foulke was able to right himself, i'm hoping koch can do the same, coz honestly, we dont have many other options.

keep in mind KC played like gangbusters after pena called that huddle.

CUBS SUCK
04-14-2004, 06:00 PM
Hey Koch!

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/03/18/trump.fired.reut/story.trump.jpg


You're fired!

voodoochile
04-14-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by inta
jesus christ. koch has one (extremely) terrible outing and everyone's all over him and calling for MARTE to close?
MARTE??

the best is the fool who started this thread did so before the 2nd HR even happened.

give the guy a few more chances before demmoting the guy out of the closer role. he's done fine all year up till today.
keith foulke was able to right himself, i'm hoping koch can do the same, coz honestly, we dont have many other options.

keep in mind KC played like gangbusters after pena called that huddle.

Koch has been fine? By what standard?

Koch's Stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6218)

Keep in mind that doesn't even include the BS he had today. Note that nice round WHIP number too...

inta
04-14-2004, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Koch has been fine? By what standard?

Koch's Stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6218)

Keep in mind that doesn't even include the BS he had today. Note that nice round WHIP number too...

well the opening day fiasco wasnt his fault, he gave up a hit while trying to clean up polittes mess. then guillen took him out. that racked up the ERA something terrible.

in NY and yesterday he played fine, he played great yesterday actually.

voodoochile
04-14-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by inta
well the opening day fiasco wasnt his fault, he gave up a hit while trying to clean up polittes mess. then guillen took him out. that racked up the ERA something terrible.

in NY and yesterday he played fine, he played great yesterday actually.

What's your point? His stats are awful, he has nearly cost the Sox a win and failed in another save opportunity even though he didn't technically blow it. He is allowing baserunners hand over fist and has an ERA approaching 12.

Put him in middle relief and see if his stuff returns, but right now, you are merely setting him up to fail by keeping him in the closer role.

lowesox
04-14-2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
I called for his release in spring training, before he had given up a run. KW was on television with Hawk talking about where his foot was landing. He probably is done, if not, there is obviously no one in the WS organization who has the answer to how to stop the pace in which his skills are declining . He is worse than last year.

Hold on a second here. I agree with everybody: right now Koch isn't the man to be closing. But release him? I don't think so. Just look at what Konerko is doing right now - and a lot of people wanted to dump him during the offseason. I think at this point, the best thing we can do is be patient. Give Marte a few chances - and try Koch in a bridge type role. At least until a closer becomes available.

Randar68
04-14-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
What's your point? His stats are awful, he has nearly cost the Sox a win and failed in another save opportunity even though he didn't technically blow it. He is allowing baserunners hand over fist and has an ERA approaching 12.

Put him in middle relief and see if his stuff returns, but right now, you are merely setting him up to fail by keeping him in the closer role.

Voodoo, those ESPN stats DO include today's fiasco. Prior to today, in the 4 games he had appeared in, he had only given up 1 ER.

Today was a whole different deal, but let's keep the facts straight anyways.

dickallen15
04-14-2004, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by inta
well the opening day fiasco wasnt his fault, he gave up a hit while trying to clean up polittes mess. then guillen took him out. that racked up the ERA something terrible.

in NY and yesterday he played fine, he played great yesterday actually.

He gave up an unearned run, (because he threw the ball away), and made a 7-2 game pretty interesting in NY. Although Marte was the one to blame, Billy didn't get the job done in KC, and he was dreadful today. That's 3 times in 8 games he has been less than adequate. Not too good of a percentage. He is done, its the same crap we saw last year. If Cooper hasn't been able to fix him by now, he can't fix him. He's either hurt or he was taking "supplements" before coming to Chicago.

Kuzman
04-14-2004, 06:48 PM
i posted this in another thread just so everyone would see it..



ya know what, i think you will have to give koch a chance this year... he was solid against the yankees, and he is strugging against the royals... ok the royals have had the most runs in the 9th inning yet this year, they came back against the sox big time opening day and they did the same to cleveland earlier this year... so the thing is the royals are CLUTCH now lets see how billy reacts to the other 29 teams out there before we completely write him off.

mdep524
04-14-2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Hold on a second here. I agree with everybody: right now Koch isn't the man to be closing. But release him? I don't think so. Just look at what Konerko is doing right now - and a lot of people wanted to dump him during the offseason. I think at this point, the best thing we can do is be patient. Give Marte a few chances - and try Koch in a bridge type role. At least until a closer becomes available.

There is a HUGE difference between Koch and Konerko. One word: SKILL. Konerko went into a (long) slump. As in Paul Konerko the person still had the skill to hit a baseball, but he was just struggling. Billy Koch just does not have the skill/talent to pitch. Period. His one claim to fame was a 98 mph fastball. Now that he does not have that, what seperates him from literally anybody else? It's not like he can "bounce back." This whole "learning how to pitch" stuff is just BS too.

Konerko was a good bet to bounce back, Koch wasn't. He does not deserve more chances.

mdep524
04-14-2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Kuzman
i posted this in another thread just so everyone would see it..



ya know what, i think you will have to give koch a chance this year... he was solid against the yankees, and he is strugging against the royals... ok the royals have had the most runs in the 9th inning yet this year, they came back against the sox big time opening day and they did the same to cleveland earlier this year... so the thing is the royals are CLUTCH now lets see how billy reacts to the other 29 teams out there before we completely write him off.

In response to "he was solid againt the Yankees," no matter how bad a pitcher is (and Koch is as bad as humanly possible) a team will not score runs off him every time out. It's simple probability- there will be innings when a team doesn't score any runs. Are we reduced to taking this as a sign of confidence in Billy Koch? I would say that's short sighted judgement.

dickallen15
04-14-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
In response to "he was solid againt the Yankees," no matter how bad a pitcher is (and Koch is as bad as humanly possible) a team will not score runs off him every time out. It's simple probability- there will be innings when a team doesn't score any runs. Are we reduced to taking this as a sign of confidence in Billy Koch? I would say that's short sighted judgement.


This is true. Even position players brought in to pitch when games get out of hand sometimes go unscathed. In fact, Koch goes unscathed about as often as they do.