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chaerulez
04-13-2004, 12:24 PM
Exactly why didn't we keep this guy? He's off to a hot start, batting .320 and has more walks than strikeouts. Two things I can't say about Willie Harris. And it's not like Willie is an defense upgrade over Jimenez.

I think the worst thing about losing him was the fact that Ken Williams thought so much of him that he designated him for assignment instead of actually trying to trade him for something of value!

Then again, I guess I can't question Williams' genius moves such as getting Billy Koch and Scott Schoenweiss and also not being able to resign Alomar, Sullivan or Tony G for what appeared to be very affordable prices.

samram
04-13-2004, 12:27 PM
I think he was really bad in the clubhouse and was lazy. He made a lot of base-running mistakes and really became a detriment to the team.
You're right in that his production is pretty solid and I think he surpassed Alomar's production last year after we acquired Alomar. However, this team just isn't one that can handle bad clubhouse guys and play well.

Stoky44
04-13-2004, 12:28 PM
Jimenez= NO HEART FOR BASEBALL

Over By There
04-13-2004, 12:30 PM
I was close to inserting troll here.

He was lazy, plus bad in the field and in the clubhouse. We had just traded for Alomar and didn't need him. Also, he was in fact traded for a minor leaguer from the Reds named Adam Dunn. We didn't just give him away.

JRIG
04-13-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Stoky44
Jimenez= NO HEART FOR BASEBALL

Yes, never mind the fact he's already been on base 8 more times than Willie Harris this year.

JRIG
04-13-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Over By There
I was close to inserting troll here.

He was lazy, plus bad in the field and in the clubhouse. We had just traded for Alomar and didn't need him. Also, he was in fact traded for a minor leaguer from the Reds named Adam Dunn. We didn't just give him away.

Scott Dunn. If we received Adam Dunn for Jimenez I would never say a bad word about KW again. Probably.

Cubbiesuck13
04-13-2004, 12:35 PM
remember when we traded those young pitchers to the pirates and they ended up being decent for half a season. ya. how are they doing right now?

we shall see how well he does when the reds slow down. right now they are hot.

Stoky44
04-13-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Yes, never mind the fact he's already been on base 8 more times than Willie Harris this year.

It is still early April. Can't judge a guy on what kind of year he will have, good or bad, after so few games.

Irishsox1
04-13-2004, 12:43 PM
There was a key game in Minnesota last year where he didn't read a hit properly and then was not hustling when the ball landed for a hit. He could've scored on the play which would've given the Sox the lead in the 8th. The Sox didn't score and Jacque Jones wins it in the 11th on a homerun. That was one of the many plays that Jimenez screwed up last year.

But he did beat the Cubs last year with a hit, so......

Over By There
04-13-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Scott Dunn. If we received Adam Dunn for Jimenez I would never say a bad word about KW again. Probably.

Oops, you're right. Talk about subconscious wishful thinking. :)

valposoxfan
04-13-2004, 12:44 PM
Remeber when he didn't know how to run the bases and quite frankly didn't care about playing...yea.

Dadawg_77
04-13-2004, 12:46 PM
While he could have been problem in the club house, the fact remains he is currently a better ball player then his replacements Alomar and Harris.

OEO Magglio
04-13-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
remember when we traded those young pitchers to the pirates and they ended up being decent for half a season. ya. how are they doing right now?

we shall see how well he does when the reds slow down. right now they are hot.
Kip Wells has been great right since he was traded to pitt, and he's still doing a great job, fogg on the other hand had one half of a good season. As far as Jiminez goes he started off hot with the sox last year, and then started to slump a little bit. D'angelo is one of the dumbest players you will ever find on a baseball field, and chaerulez if you honestly think willie isn't a better defender then jiminez you obviously haven't watched either of them play alot.

SEALgep
04-13-2004, 12:50 PM
I think it's obvious that Harris is indeed a defensive upgrade over Jimenez. Harris's work ethic isn't in question, nor is his team first approach to the game. Jimenez is surely an offensive presence, but he didn't fit on our ball club. That's not to say he won't be good for the Reds, because as of now, he certainly looks to be a good addition for them. Sometimes that's how it works out, but he wasn't that way for us. A classic example of him not showing his effort was when he dropped an ordinary pop up in the infield with the bases juiced with 2 outs. Three runners scored from that in the first inning and we lost the game. I would rather have Harris.

hillbilly
04-13-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
While he could have been problem in the club house, the fact remains he is currently a better ball player then his replacements Alomar and Harris.

I don't know how you see jimenez as better then harris. Even if that may be the case, I'd rather have a hard worker and team player in harris then a headcase lazy ass in jimenez. Jimenez's skills aren't good enough that he can get away with lethargically going through a ballgame. He's just not that good of a player. I'll take willie anyday. FANTASY STATS don't tell the story of how good a ballplayer really is, which is what im pretty sure your looking at.

stillz
04-13-2004, 12:56 PM
D'angelo was a lazy doofus. Willie's an upgrade on defense. We'll see if he gets his stroke going.

JRIG
04-13-2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by hillbilly
I don't know how you see jimenez as better then harris. Even if that may be the case, I'd rather have a hard worker and team player in harris then a headcase lazy ass in jimenez. Jimenez's skills aren't good enough that he can get away with lethargically going through a ballgame. He's just not that good of a player. I'll take willie anyday. FANTASY STATS don't tell the story of how good a ballplayer really is, which is what im pretty sure your looking at.

Fantasy stats like OBP, SLG, batting average, doubles, home runs, walks -- things like that?

TDog
04-13-2004, 12:59 PM
I used to like Jimenez. A lot. He looked great when he first came up with the Sox. Like the people in San Diego said after the deal that brought him to us, the more you get to know him, the more reason you find to dislike his baseball. If getting traded a few times is what it took to mature him, he might be a decent ballplayer. Maybe he doesn't feel yet comfortable enough with his new team to be himself.

Two defensive plays, for me, sum up his game. In a crucial situation against the Cubs last summer, he turned a doubleplay by taking the feed at second barehanded before making the pivot and pegging out the runner at first. Flashy, crowd-pleasing stuff. The next time he tried it, he dropped the ball in a situation where the error hurt.

hillbilly
04-13-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Fantasy stats like OBP, SLG, batting average, doubles, home runs, walks -- things like that?

yes, things like that

MRKARNO
04-13-2004, 01:07 PM
Words I associate with Jimenez include, lazy, stupid, bone-headed and heartless. Not exactly what you want in a baseball player. Willie Harris loves the game of baseball; he's the polar opposite.

chaerulez
04-13-2004, 01:10 PM
LOL, I forgot all about the whole Fogg and Wells for TODD RITCHIE! Man that's gonna be on my mind for a while... just think... a rotation of the big three we have now plus these two?

As for my post, it can be said that someone like Manny and Milton Bradley loaf once in a while, but they put the up the numbers. Willie Harris seems like a nice guy and all but he has no bat...

JRIG
04-13-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Words I associate with Jimenez include, lazy, stupid, bone-headed and heartless. Not exactly what you want in a baseball player. Willie Harris loves the game of baseball; he's the polar opposite.

Including the polar opposite in terms of talent as well.

Brian26
04-13-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
remember when we traded those young pitchers to the pirates and they ended up being decent for half a season. ya. how are they doing right now?

Yeah, Kip Wells is still kicking ass.

SpringfldFan
04-13-2004, 01:23 PM
Willy Harris won't be an all star this year and probably never will, but I think he will wind up being one of the most pleasant surprises this year and one of the "keys" if the Sox are successful. One event really illustrates what he is all about. The day the Sox signed Robbie Alomar, effectively costing Harris his starting job, he was as loud a cheerleader of the trade as anyone, acknowledging that Alomar would make the team better. And if I recall, Willie was on something of an offensive hot streak at the time.

Harris defines the role of a team player and that is a role the Sox have desperately needed these last few years.

Over By There
04-13-2004, 01:35 PM
I'd rather have:

Wee Willie and his skills, plus a happy clubhouse/team chemistry

-than-

Jimenez's skills, plus our more valuable players being ticked off in the clubhouse.

Jimenez might have better stats than Harris over their relatively brief careers so far, and he might have better stas in the first half dozen games of the season. However, I'd recommend we wait to see how these two play over the next few months before we decide that Jimenez's bat is such an awesome weapon that we can refer to his worth in the context of Manny or Milton Bradley (good/great hitters with an attitude problem).

sas1974
04-13-2004, 01:43 PM
I know that no one has done it directly, but I would stop WELL SHORT of putting D'Angelo's offensive skills in the same class as Manny.

And I guess really don't recall much about D'Angelo's clubhouse issues. In fact I seem to remember Frank wishing him well and being a little put off by the fact that they let him go. That being said, this guy is brain dead and I am not too upset about him residing in Cinci.

hempsox
04-13-2004, 01:46 PM
Jimenez on my fantasy team= :D:

Jimenez on the Scrubs= :) :gulp: :) :gulp:

Jimenez on my beloved Sox= :?: :o: :angry: :whiner:

Give me a rag sock monkey at second for the Sox and I would be happier than if we had Jimenez!

samram
04-13-2004, 02:13 PM
In order to have bad clubhouse guys on a team and still be successful, I think there have to be identifiable team leaders present. Manny is ok in Boston because Nomar, Trot Nixon and Varitek are leaders. The Yankees weren't hurt by David Wells because Jeter and Bernie Williams and Giambi were leaders there. Our team hasn't been equipped to have bad clubhouse guys because there hasn't been a great leader or leaders. Jose Valentin is pretty good, but there has to be more. I remember in the late 90s when we had Belle, Navarro, and Phillips, we had a lot of talent but no success because they just dragged the team down with bad attitude.

Dadawg_77
04-13-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by hillbilly
yes, things like that

The things that win ball games.

JRIG
04-13-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The things that win ball games.

Only in fantasy world. In the real world heart, determination, good attitudes, and intangibles win balllgames.

jeremyb1
04-13-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Fantasy stats like OBP, SLG, batting average, doubles, home runs, walks -- things like that?

My favorite stat is immeasurable - heart.

TornLabrum
04-13-2004, 07:50 PM
It may seem impossible, but Jimenez was a worse base runner than Ray Durham.

delben91
04-13-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by hempsox

Give me a rag sock monkey at second for the Sox and I would be happier than if we had Jimenez!

Haha. That gets my vote for POTW!

bafiarocks03
04-13-2004, 09:19 PM
U guys are mean! he was not lazy! he was a great player! one of my favorite!!! he is doing great this season! i wish he was back on teh sox!! i met him teh day before he was traded! hes a nice guy!! plus hes hot!! very hot!!

ChiSox14305635
04-13-2004, 10:09 PM
I saw all the Jimenez I could stomach when he dropped that easy pop up in Oakland that cleared the bases for them. Buerhle got saddled with another loss because of him.

pearso66
04-13-2004, 10:11 PM
I don't know if all of you remember, I'm sure most of you do, He is a guy that starts out really hot, but once he gets comforatable, he stinks. That's what happened last year, and they rightfully got rid of him. If he would get traded every month and a half, he'd be a heck of a player, but since that won't happen, he's gonna be average. his offensive production is not enough to make up for his lack of defensive skills. Maybe he should be a DH? The number 1 thing I remember of his era with the Sox was the dropped pop up with bases loaded against Oakland. How do you let 3 guys score on an infield pop up?

when every team previous say he's lazy, and he's lazy on your team, he probably won't change. Like I said, just wait a month

RichFitztightly
04-13-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
I don't know if all of you remember, I'm sure most of you do, He is a guy that starts out really hot, but once he gets comforatable, he stinks. That's what happened last year, and they rightfully got rid of him. If he would get traded every month and a half, he'd be a heck of a player, but since that won't happen, he's gonna be average. his offensive production is not enough to make up for his lack of defensive skills. Maybe he should be a DH? The number 1 thing I remember of his era with the Sox was the dropped pop up with bases loaded against Oakland. How do you let 3 guys score on an infield pop up?

when every team previous say he's lazy, and he's lazy on your team, he probably won't change. Like I said, just wait a month

That about sums up what I was going to say. His stats right now aren't all that phenomenal as some of the people here allude to, and they're surely going to go down. I'd take Willie Harris any day of the week over Jiminez.

davidleeroth
04-13-2004, 11:29 PM
jiminez will cost you more games than he'll win you. therefore, you dont want him on your team.

Tragg
04-14-2004, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Words I associate with Jimenez include, lazy, stupid, bone-headed and heartless. Not exactly what you want in a baseball player. Willie Harris loves the game of baseball; he's the polar opposite.
I'll take your lazy and append "baserunner" to "boneheaded"


Regardless, this is Jiminez we traded, not joe morgan.

Chisoxfn
04-14-2004, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by chaerulez
Exactly why didn't we keep this guy? He's off to a hot start, batting .320 and has more walks than strikeouts. Two things I can't say about Willie Harris. And it's not like Willie is an defense upgrade over Jimenez.

I think the worst thing about losing him was the fact that Ken Williams thought so much of him that he designated him for assignment instead of actually trying to trade him for something of value!

Then again, I guess I can't question Williams' genius moves such as getting Billy Koch and Scott Schoenweiss and also not being able to resign Alomar, Sullivan or Tony G for what appeared to be very affordable prices.

Well, its well known I was a big Jimenez fan, but the Sox did get Scott Dunn for him and the Angels are very high on Dunn after he had a strong showing this spring down in Tempe.

The Sox turned Dunn and Tim Bittner (Another guy the Angels like) into Scho. We can debate whether thats good or bad and I know a lot of people dislike Scho, but I do think Scho has the ability to be a solid starter for the Sox. He has good stuff for a lefty and from what I have seen he's really improved his secondary pitches, which was always his key when he was in Anaheim.

Still, I like Jimenez. I also like Harris and Uribe.