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MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 05:54 PM
Bottom of the 5th, 2 outs, 2 on down by 2, Bonds sends one into McCovey Cove. Mays gives Bonds his olympic torch.

Congratulations to Barry Bonds!

ChiWhiteSox1337
04-12-2004, 05:55 PM
Just decided to make a thread since the media has been talking about it all week. I don't understand, why are they making a big deal out of 660 and not 661? He's only tied with Willie Mays w/ 660. It's always funny to see those guys in the little boats outside of the park waiting for the HRs. I remember seeing Bonds hit 630 at the cell and the white sox won the game, so it was pretty cool.

Mickster
04-12-2004, 06:08 PM
Or.....Congratulations to BALCO???? :D:

steff
04-12-2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Or.....Congratulations to BALCO???? :D:

Not nice...

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 06:21 PM
I really dislike all of this disrespect for Bonds. We dont really know if he took steroids so it's completely unfair to Bonds to speculate. Bonds is the most dangerous hitter ever in my opinion and putting him through all the steroid speculation is unfair. Let's take a moment and congratulate Bonds for his accomplishment. If Steroids were really the difference between Bonds and the rest of the league, how come we dont see other hitters hitting 73 HRs? Wanna know why he hasn't done it since? Because nobody pitches to him anymore.

I am a fan of Barry Bonds and I'm proud to admit it.

oldcomiskey
04-12-2004, 06:24 PM
look--if Babe and Mantle and Reggie and Killebew and Howard et al never hit 70HRs in a season--if Mays and Aaron--well you get the idea

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
look--if Babe and Mantle and Reggie and Killebew and Howard et al never hit 70HRs in a season--if Mays and Aaron--well you get the idea

Well Aaron was mr. consistancy and Ruth played in an era with much fewer home runs. I would venture to say Bonds is stronger physically than these two and probably a better home run hitter.

I dont think it would be so outlandish to suggest that Bonds is better than Mays or Aaron. Ruth was just so special because no one was even close to his home run totals. He was a home run hitter in an era when few people actually hit them consistantly

jeremyb1
04-12-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I really dislike all of this disrespect for Bonds. We dont really know if he took steroids so it's completely unfair to Bonds to speculate. Bonds is the most dangerous hitter ever in my opinion and putting him through all the steroid speculation is unfair. Let's take a moment and congratulate Bonds for his accomplishment. If Steroids were really the difference between Bonds and the rest of the league, how come we dont see other hitters hitting 73 HRs? Wanna know why he hasn't done it since? Because nobody pitches to him anymore.

I am a fan of Barry Bonds and I'm proud to admit it.

I absolutely agree with you. There's no evidence that Bonds has used steroids and even if he has that may make him dishonest and a cheater but I'm not at all sure it alters his status as the best hitter ever. You don't set the records for walks only because pitchers are scared of you or you lack good protection or you would've seen Sammy do that. You don't hit .350 because you're strong. The guy is absolutely incredible.

kittle545feet
04-12-2004, 06:51 PM
i hate bonds with a passion. i don't think any of these " homerun" hitters of today should get half the respect that mantle, mays, ruth, or aaron should get. they played when stats really didn't matter to them personally as long as they won. they played in ballparks where some of the walls were 450 feet from home plate, not like these cracker jack parks of today. they played with a dead ball, considering the golf ball like baseball they play with today. plus, the steroids. no matter what you say, there is an extrememly high chance that bonds and about 10-20 others are or have been taking steroids. no doubt about it. his stats, however rosey they may appear, are not a true measuring stick to the players from yesterday. the same players he is endlessly being compared too. :angry:

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by kittle545feet
i hate bonds with a passion. i don't think any of these " homerun" hitters of today should get half the respect that mantle, mays, ruth, or aaron should get. they played when stats really didn't matter to them personally as long as they won. they played in ballparks where some of the walls were 450 feet from home plate, not like these cracker jack parks of today. they played with a dead ball, considering the golf ball like baseball they play with today. plus, the steroids. no matter what you say, there is an extrememly high chance that bonds and about 10-20 others are or have been taking steroids. no doubt about it. his stats, however rosey they may appear, are not a true measuring stick to the players from yesterday. the same players he is endlessly being compared too. :angry:

Well I think he compares favorably with everyone but Ruth. When it comes down to it, you can't deny his ability to get on base. He draws a ridiculous amount of walks. You cant forget that. He also hits for pretty high average. Forget the home runs and he's still an incredible hitter. And besides, most ballparks (except Petco) can't hold the average bonds homer and I think he would have enjoyed nearly as much sucess in the deadball era.

jeremyb1
04-12-2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Well I think he compares favorably with everyone but Ruth. When it comes down to it, you can't deny his ability to get on base. He draws a ridiculous amount of walks. You cant forget that. He also hits for pretty high average. Forget the home runs and he's still an incredible hitter. And besides, most ballparks (except Petco) can't hold the average bonds homer and I think he would have enjoyed nearly as much sucess in the deadball era.

He holds the single season for OBP if I'm correct.

soxfan26
04-12-2004, 07:51 PM
Hats off to Barry! :gulp:

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
He holds the single season for OBP if I'm correct.

Yes he does. In 2002, a year after the 73 HR season Bonds had a .582 on base percentage. Of the top ten seasons all time for OBP, Bonds has the best, the 6th best and the tenth best. Ruth has 3 top tens and Williams has 2. I dont care what era you're in, that's just incredible.

Just for comparison, Thomas' 94 season, which was one of the better ones in the modern Era, he had "only" a .487 OBP, the 34th best of all time.

Bonds will inevitably pass Henderson for most career walks in 2004 having already passed the Babe.

He's also 36th all time for stolen bases with exactly 500.

The best single season slg % is Bonds' 2001 season with a .863

Bonds is currently 9th all time for runs and very well could finish between 1-3 when it's all said and done. Bonds also could be top 3 in RBI before he's done.

Cubbiesuck13
04-12-2004, 08:10 PM
well first off, I dont like barry bonds at all. i never did. even before the steroids became a hot topic. i don't like many players who will watch a ball from home plate. i used to love when he would stand and admire, then wind up with a single after it bounces off the wall.

there is no question he is a great player but there is a reason why his HR total jumped up a few years back. i dont think that there is anyone in the MLB that 'roids has helped make contact with the ball, it simply helps make it go farther. imo, i think it niave to not question anyone who's 'breakout' year consists of a steep spike in power numbers. especially when they have been in the league a while.

personally i think that the numbers put out my the MLB are low in regard to how many piss tests were pos. for the juice.

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 08:13 PM
Fans don't have to like Bonds' personality, but when they dont respect his accomplishments, that really ticks me off. He's done so much for the game of baseball and never gets the proper respect for that. I happen to sympathize with Bonds and I understand his personality and that he isn't a perfect human, but that doesnt prevent him being one of my favorite players in the majors.

NonetheLoaiza
04-12-2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I absolutely agree with you. There's no evidence that Bonds has used steroids and even if he has that may make him dishonest and a cheater but I'm not at all sure it alters his status as the best hitter ever. You don't set the records for walks only because pitchers are scared of you or you lack good protection or you would've seen Sammy do that. You don't hit .350 because you're strong. The guy is absolutely incredible.

Look at Marvin Bernard. He was implicated in the scandal too. He doesnt even have a job right now. I agree, you cant all of a sudden hit because you take steroids. It does take an incredible amount of raw skill and coordination.

jeremyb1
04-12-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
there is no question he is a great player but there is a reason why his HR total jumped up a few years back. i dont think that there is anyone in the MLB that 'roids has helped make contact with the ball, it simply helps make it go farther. imo, i think it niave to not question anyone who's 'breakout' year consists of a steep spike in power numbers. especially when they have been in the league a while.

personally i think that the numbers put out my the MLB are low in regard to how many piss tests were pos. for the juice.

By that logic he then stopped taking the juice the last two seasons when his home run totals were only in the 40s, right? Why would he do that? They didn't start testing until last season and the consequences are not particularly high if you test positive.

Also, people do get stronger by weight lifting, right? There are other ways to improve your strength or your hitting without steroids right? Why is it a logical conclusion that he juiced up when other possible explanations exist.

Cubbiesuck13
04-12-2004, 09:20 PM
what would the MLBPA have done if the 11 sox players would have gone through with not taking the test?

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 09:20 PM
I believe that he just got better at recognizing pitches prior to the 2001 season. If he actually got pitches to hit, maybe he'd hit more than 73. Nobody will pitch to him after that year, have you watched his average at bat? It usually includes all pitches that are out of the zone except for one to try to induce a out.

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 09:22 PM
And I would just like to say that it is ridiculous that we have to have this conversation on the day that Bonds hit a historic home run. Shame on those who brought up those anti-Bonds subjects on this historic day,

Jjav829
04-12-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
And I would just like to say that it is ridiculous that we have to have this conversation on the day that Bonds hit a historic home run. Shame on those who brought up those anti-Bonds subjects on this historic day,

Historic day my ass. I'm sick of it already. Let him move past Mays so I can stop seeing those stupid ass updates. I'm tired of hearing about every 0-3 he has like it's big news. I hope he hits 661 soon so I don't have to see his juiced up, racist ass on my TV anymore.

That said, I have no problem admitting he is the best hitter of this generation and probably top 5 all time.

Cubbiesuck13
04-12-2004, 09:34 PM
By that logic he then stopped taking the juice the last two seasons when his home run totals were only in the 40s, right? Why would he do that? They didn't start testing until last season and the consequences are not particularly high if you test positive.

The consequences are incredibly high by public standards; with people talking about notations next to records i am sure many players would have stoped by now. Even Barry who seems to not care what the collective 'you' think about him.



Also, people do get stronger by weight lifting, right? There are other ways to improve your strength or your hitting without steroids right? Why is it a logical conclusion that he juiced up when other possible explanations exist.


With that logic, ShaME realy did get his bulk when he went to the dentist to get his tooth fixed so he could eat. By the way, did anyone hear that one? That guy needs his own PR guy, not a personal trainer/batting practice pitcher/ team mascot/ radar gone operator.

Jjav829
04-12-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I really dislike all of this disrespect for Bonds. We dont really know if he took steroids so it's completely unfair to Bonds to speculate. Bonds is the most dangerous hitter ever in my opinion and putting him through all the steroid speculation is unfair. Let's take a moment and congratulate Bonds for his accomplishment. If Steroids were really the difference between Bonds and the rest of the league, how come we dont see other hitters hitting 73 HRs? Wanna know why he hasn't done it since? Because nobody pitches to him anymore.

I am a fan of Barry Bonds and I'm proud to admit it.

Originally posted by MRKARNO
So a lot of people have suspected that Jason Giambi or Sammy Sosa are on steroids. Is it right to chant, "Steeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrroiiids" at a game? I think that it would be for Sosa because we all genuinely hate him, but for someone like Giambi, the farthest it should be taken is a bunch of signs.

Is it right to accuse a player of steroids and chant it out at a game? Or is it really just McCarthyism like Dusty Baker mentioned?

As far as I'm concerned, only Sosa would deserve such a treatment.

So the question is, what's the difference? You don't like the speculation that Barry took steroids, even though there are reports that Barry received steroids by his personal trainer. Yet Sosa, who regardless of all the circumstantial evidence has had no direct evidence linking him to steroids, you support chanting steroids to. Something isn't matching up here...

HebrewHammer
04-12-2004, 09:59 PM
I don't really get all this respect for Bonds, 660, big deal, he's tied Willie Mays, if they gave him the torch(why the Olympic Torch? Did Willie just have it lying around in his garage, really where did this come from?) when he actually PASSED him I think it would make a lot more sense. My favorite was how they were getting ready to do this whole ceremony In Houston and San Diego, why would the Astros or Pads agree to this? I know how I'd feel if they pulled this at the Cell, I'd want to get back to the game, wow a homer, okay can we play baseball again? No? Oh this is pretty lame then. If Willie wasn't Barry's godfather would Barry even be making this big of a deal out of this "accomplishment"? I don't think so, let's say it was Dale Murphy he was passing, "Dale was a great player, I'm proud to have my name next to his." but instead we get "Oh I love Willie, I can't believe this is happening, just wow, my name even near Willie's? That's amazing to me." Shut up and play like you always should have.

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
So the question is, what's the difference? You don't like the speculation that Barry took steroids, even though there are reports that Barry received steroids by his personal trainer. Yet Sosa, who regardless of all the circumstantial evidence has had no direct evidence linking him to steroids, you support chanting steroids to. Something isn't matching up here...

So I've been impeached, but I've also kind of had a change of opinion. I hate sosa, but I guess it's only fair to chant "Corky" because that's actually true. It really isn't fair to accuse anyone of taking steroids, but the players did create this problem themselves by not accepting strong steroid testing.

sas1974
04-12-2004, 10:57 PM
Bonds is one of the greatest hitters of our time, steroids or no steroids. That being said, this guy is an arrogant, racist, malcontent and I couldn't care less about him. I don't respect him as a player or as a person.

patbooyah
04-12-2004, 11:06 PM
we should reformat the title of this thread:

Bonds hits 660*.

* denotes steroid use

CubKilla
04-12-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Historic day my ass. I'm sick of it already. Let him move past Mays so I can stop seeing those stupid ass updates. I'm tired of hearing about every 0-3 he has like it's big news. I hope he hits 661 soon so I don't have to see his juiced up, racist ass on my TV anymore.

I'm with you here. Maybe we can actually see a team other than SF when ESPN airs a baseball game.

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Historic day my ass. I'm sick of it already. Let him move past Mays so I can stop seeing those stupid ass updates. I'm tired of hearing about every 0-3 he has like it's big news. I hope he hits 661 soon so I don't have to see his juiced up, racist ass on my TV anymore.


History was made on this day, just not the huge 756 type of history and probably not as big as everyone made it out to be.

And like it or not, everyone here should be cheering for Bonds. So if some people here get their deep desire and Bonds fails to pass Mr. Aaron, guess who's most likely to hit 755 next? Our eternal friend Sammy Sosa. What would it be like if we had to deal with Sosa being the first to hit 756+ career homers?
We'd have to wait an agonizing 5+ years for the hope that A-rod would pass Sosa.

I think it's sad that you don't appreciate what Bonds has done for the game of baseball. He isn't a perfect person, but no one is. Do you realize how unfairly everyone treats him? I'm relishing the Bonds update because watching a Bonds at bat is just awesome. I guess if you dont appreciate it now, you never will.

And what would you say if Bonds hit .400? I predict he will this year and it would only serve to improve his legacy.


What I'm really saying is that you dont have to like him as a person, but:

A. you should want him to reach the HR record so Sosa doesnt

and B. you should respect his accomplishments for the game of baseball.

MRKARNO
04-12-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
I'm with you here. Maybe we can actually see a team other than SF when ESPN airs a baseball game.

I myself dont mind that SF is on ESPN all the time. They have the most dangerous hitter in our generation and they have the best ballpark in baseball.

I guess that part of the reason I'm upset is that Bonds is the one of the baseball greats of my generation and to see people degrade him like they do kind of does damage to the game of baseball. It's like the generations before me had a right to baseball heros such as DiMaggio, Mantle, Gerhig, etc, but the best hitters of this generation have to be demonized.

VaSoxfan
04-12-2004, 11:30 PM
I really can't stand the man or his attitude, and as soon as his name came up in possible steroid implications, I couldn't help but smile...hopefully one way or another they will prove wether he took them some day.

All I know as a college kid in Pennsylvania in the early 90s, I went to Pirates games all the time and remember Bonds as a solid player, who was MUCH smaller than he is now with a penchant for choking in repeated NLCS's against the Braves. Now he is a hulking muscleman who can blast a ball 450 feet without even thinking.

I don't know, I'm all for supporting bulking up in the weight room, but like Sosa, he sure seemed to balloon in a short few years. Hopefully someday we'll know for sure.

JC456
04-12-2004, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Bottom of the 5th, 2 outs, 2 on down by 2, Bonds sends one into McCovey Cove. Mays gives Bonds his olympic torch.

Congratulations to Barry Bonds!

Tell me when he breaks the record. Otherwise it's just another home run.

Jjav829
04-12-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
History was made on this day, just not the huge 756 type of history and probably not as big as everyone made it out to be.

And like it or not, everyone here should be cheering for Bonds. So if some people here get their deep desire and Bonds fails to pass Mr. Aaron, guess who's most likely to hit 755 next? Our eternal friend Sammy Sosa. What would it be like if we had to deal with Sosa being the first to hit 756+ career homers?
We'd have to wait an agonizing 5+ years for the hope that A-rod would pass Sosa.

I think it's sad that you don't appreciate what Bonds has done for the game of baseball. He isn't a perfect person, but no one is. Do you realize how unfairly everyone treats him? I'm relishing the Bonds update because watching a Bonds at bat is just awesome. I guess if you dont appreciate it now, you never will.

And what would you say if Bonds hit .400? I predict he will this year and it would only serve to improve his legacy.


What I'm really saying is that you dont have to like him as a person, but:

A. you should want him to reach the HR record so Sosa doesnt

and B. you should respect his accomplishments for the game of baseball.

Who said I don't appreciate his baseball accomplishments? I don't appreciate that he has put himself in a situation where one of the biggest names in baseball is now linked with steroid usage. He has done a nice job of tarnishing baseball in that regard. Get rid of the updates.

What is there to appreciate about watching a Bonds at-bat? The thrill of sitting there and watching him take 4 balls and trot to first base? O, how exciting. Either way, Sammy or Barry, the record will still be tarnished once it is broken. The sooner steroid testing beings, the better.

BTW, Kudos to Rob Neyer for his article. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1780658)

CubKilla
04-13-2004, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I guess that part of the reason I'm upset is that Bonds is the one of the baseball greats of my generation and to see people degrade him like they do kind of does damage to the game of baseball.

True. Bonds is one of the greatest baseball players of my generation. But Barry has no one to blame but himself for all of the mistreatment he gets. No one likes a showoff..... not even Barry when asked about Zambrano's fist-pumping after Zambrano K'ed him in a game at Wrigley last season. No one likes a player that dogs it. Fans remember Barry standing in LF at Candlestick, not budging from where he was standing w/his arms folded, when a ball he thought was a HR went over his head and hit off the wall. Barry the dog had to go get it afterwards and egg was on his face for a week. Now, every HR Barry hits (and has hit in his career) is suspect because of the Balco Investigation. Barry Bonds is perhaps one of the most disliked superstars in the sports world today and it's by his own doing.

He's a modern day Ty Cobb.

Paid Santiago
04-13-2004, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
So the question is, what's the difference? You don't like the speculation that Barry took steroids, even though there are reports that Barry received steroids by his personal trainer. Yet Sosa, who regardless of all the circumstantial evidence has had no direct evidence linking him to steroids, you support chanting steroids to. Something isn't matching up here...



Ok sorry but how in the hell is barry racist?

Side note this is a great day it will be even better when by the time Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Ken Griffey,Rafael Palmeiro, Alex rodriguez careers that 7 of the top 10 home run hitters will be minorities. And especially special for us Latin americans/carribeans(VIVOS LOS DOMINICANOS). Being a man of color(with spanish culture) its great to see Barry Bonds do what he did today.

TommyJohn
04-13-2004, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla

He's a modern day Ty Cobb.

I wouldn't go that far. Cobb was not only vile, but violent. Barry
Bonds, as far as I know has never beat up fans, kicked women,
been knifed or basically beat the hell out of any white person
who doesn't show him absolute respect.

Bisco Stu
04-13-2004, 03:02 AM
Hey, I come to this board to get away from all the Giants crap I'm surrounded by!

Bonds ain't no Cobb, he's just a spoiled brat.

He's gotten the praise I wish Frank would get, but at least Frank does it without 'roids.

Cubbiesuck13
04-13-2004, 07:01 AM
say what you want, cobb is the best player of all time, and bonds will never have the hussle that cobb had not for one play.

Hokiesox
04-13-2004, 08:18 AM
What would I say if Bonds hit .400? I'd say, "that's great, he only had 120 ABs, since he gets walked 5 times a day"

Jjav829
04-13-2004, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Paid Santiago
Ok sorry but how in the hell is barry racist?

Side note this is a great day it will be even better when by the time Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Ken Griffey,Rafael Palmeiro, Alex rodriguez careers that 7 of the top 10 home run hitters will be minorities. And especially special for us Latin americans/carribeans(VIVOS LOS DOMINICANOS). Being a man of color(with spanish culture) its great to see Barry Bonds do what he did today.

Because of his whole "I need to wipe out the white man but leave the black mans records alone" thing. Note: that isn't a direct quote, but the racial implications from his actual quote are fairly obvious to me. I don't wanna go too far into racism here, so I'll simply say that I interpret his comments on Babe Ruth as racist, as do others.

Kroozah
04-13-2004, 03:15 PM
In response to Barry being a racist.... if he was, how come is ex wife whom was married and had to kids from from 1988 to 1994 was white... sounds like a racist to me.