View Full Version : Lets Revisit..."White Flag 97', shall we??

09-10-2001, 02:13 PM
Last year around this time we were subject to Ebbetts Field boy shooting his mouth off in Minny at the clinching celebration at how now the fans are dumbasses for getting all over his butt over the White Flag of 97'.... we were basically chastised for failing to see what a genius he was.....

the last two remaining pieces of that PR nighmare are now crumbling like Old Comiskey under the wrecking ball....Foulke and Howry....

Lets all remeber too that Foulky gave up that dinger in extras against Seattle in game one of the ALDS last year....

So Jerry, you took the opportunity to ream us and gloat over your spoils last September, .....where are you now that we need some answers from our fearless leader as to where this franchise is headed???

Can we safely say that dumb trade cost this franchise??? I believe the franchise took a huge hit in PR and crediblity with the fans,,,and for what??? We've got two remaining pieces left that
have left Sox fans pulling their hair out of their heads....
Hey, get off my ass......I'll move the damn team to Vegas, and maybe the Bulls too....

09-10-2001, 02:22 PM
Ummm, let's NOT revisit that trade. It's ancient history...

09-10-2001, 02:33 PM
captain54, you're being foolish. That trade netted us Barcelo, Howry, Koulke, and Vining who are still with us. Barcelo is extremely effective when he's healthy, and Foulke and Howry have helpus us alone more than Darwin Hernandez, and Alvarez have helped their respective teams, cumulatively, since.

There's no reason to relive the trade. There are much stronger words I'd prefer to use to describe the nature and tone of your post, but foolish covers it in a much better way.

09-10-2001, 03:05 PM
i agree

09-10-2001, 04:01 PM
There are things that happened in the past. It's time to let it go. By that measure I could say, "Damn that Comiskey! If he had payed Cicotte & the rest of the Black Sox, they'd have never thrown the World Series, and WE'D be the great baseball dynasty instead of the Yank-mes!"

True, at the time it was a HORRIBLE trade, but it's time to start seeing the fruits of Schueler's move. Foulke alone is worth more than the three nimrods we dealt. Barcelo could even be better if he didn't keep getting hurt every minute or so, and Bob Howry has the potential to be very good.

I understand the animosity towards this deal, but it happened 5 years ago. It's time to stop bithcin' about the past and time to start thinking about the future.

Ours is especially bright.

09-10-2001, 07:36 PM
I wonder if Foulke's lastest downfall has anyhting to do with his contract.

09-11-2001, 12:08 AM
Hey Randar68.....

Ok Mr SmartyPants, you're much smarter than me so maybe you can help me with this one....

I don't care that it's ancient history, but the truth is, the Sox were 3 games out in 97' when we tanked the season......

Seems to me we got ONE real bonafide pitcher in return (Foulke) who has choked big at the worst possible time this year, and might be gone next year anyway...

Also seems to be the Sox and Reinsdorf took a tremendous PR hit with that trade, that could possibly to this day be affecting attendance....

Now you tell me, what that trade worth it??? Or should we just continue to give Uncle Jerry a free pass, like he's had for the last twenty years....?


09-11-2001, 03:01 AM
yo, captain, lay off Randar....jst because he is too polite not to use any expletives, doesn't mean that I won't. And considering how LITTLE insight your two posts conteined, ANYTHING would be better.

Foulke - in the last 3 years, he is easily in top 3 in the MAJORS. Care to comare stats? I didn''t thinks so....and if I hear someone
blame Foulke (not turf, defense or plain luck - Foulke!!) at freak loss in Minnesota...

Howry - has been EXTREMEMLY solid in 98, 99, and 2000. This is his off year coming off shoulder surgery. I still look for him to be very reliable in the future.

Barcelo - this kid had an ERA in 3.00s while pithcing hurt. If he ever gets healthy (and he might not), you will see a scary sight: a power pitcher with tremedous movement (thanks to his GIGANTIC fingers) and a tin of control.

Vining has an ERA of 2.00 in AAA. Even if he and 2 others (I believe Majewski is doing quite well in A) never make it.....THE TRADE WOULD STILL BE CONSIDERED A STEAL. Oops, I forgot, Caruso already hit over .300 in his ROOKIE season :)

As far as PR goes, stop listening to your pops....Rainsdorf was never popular. Once people got tired of the Ugly Park, they suddely remembered all the **** Reiny has done/tried to do, and that, along with a few other economic/demographic factors, comp
ounded the effect. Ironically, you still blame some of us in letting JR off the hook. Would you like the stadium to be even emptier than it really is now?

Finally, if you think that Sox were going to catch Cleveland and were a better team, YOU ARE A ******, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Sox had NOTHING (I believe they were 1 game over .500), and the peoplethey shipped proved that in subsequent years. Darwin? Alvarez? Fernandez?

Those 3 were making some serious money I might add. So was RH, who has since had 1 year better than Foulke, while making 3 times as much money. Would Sox contend if RH was their closer in 97, 98 or 99?

The turn in the organization was made, and the new direction/youth movement proved to be a great success. Sox would have undoubtedly made playoffs this year if it wasn;t for the record-breaking avalanche in injuries.

And the future is brighter still. If only KW can make some gutsy decisions, Sox should be well set up for the next 5-7 years. Whether Reinsdorf/Shueller have revamped the franchise with the financial goal in mind (probably) or not, you can't argue with the results.

09-11-2001, 05:27 AM
One of the best trades ever made.

Who ever thinks this trade was a bad idea or a bust has to be out of his or her mind!!!
Lets review.
We traded an old fart in Danny Darwin, an over weight lefty who hasn't been healthy in 2 years, and a closer who we weren't going to keep anyway FOR

The best closer in the AL behind the Yankees Ace closer in Keith Foulke..Look at his numbers and just compare. A young stud in Barcello when health can be a dominate set up guy. Bob Howry who has an outstanding arm and who's numbers have proven it. How poeple forget what he did for us last year, Tsk, Tsk,Tsk. He did have off season surgery. Give him a break. He's going to return to his old form next year.
Caruso who did just have one good year, but what a year. He finished close to getting rookie of the year and he did hit that HR at Wrigley to help sweep the Cubs. Remember?

That trade worked out GREAT.
The ony guy left from that trade who's still playin' is Roberto Hernandez and he's pitching for the helpless Royals.

I still don't think we were goig to win anything back in '97. We wee only a few games over .500 and the Indians ended up going to the WS that year. And if we didn't win the whole thing that year, than all of those pitchers would've left and the WhiteSox franchise would be in direStraights.

That trade helpled us win the 2000 division. So it all equals out. Actually, the Whitesox had made some good trades since '97

The big one of '97
Matt Karchner for Jon Garland

Getting Jose and Cal from the Brewers
All those trades put us in a position to win the Central. It just didn't work out in the Playoffs.

But no one should be upset over that trade. Just look at we got back in return

09-11-2001, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by captain54
Hey Randar68.....

Ok Mr SmartyPants, you're much smarter than me so maybe you can help me with this one....

This is the one thing that you were right about.

09-12-2001, 02:38 AM
In the wake of what this country is facing now, the "White Flag" trade of 97' for the Sox and whether Reinsdorf is truly comitted to bringing a winner to the South Side is totally and completely insignificant......

I take it that no one agrees with me, by the fact that I was called a ******, an *******, or even a ************........

Y'all work for Uncle Jer?? Cause last I checked, we havent really won a damn thing in 21 years....