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LuvSox
04-11-2004, 08:01 AM
What a steaming pile of crap this is. Anyone else read it? They picked the best at each position for each team and gave an edge to one (mostly Cubs, of course). Santo over Ventura? Gabby Hartnett over Pudge Fisk? Fergie Jenkins over Ed Walsh? The Chicago media strikes again.

I found the link. (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-chi11.html)

sas1974
04-11-2004, 08:58 AM
How can they bring up right field w/o even mentioning Maggs? That was absolutely disgraceful! He's going to be getting a lot of emails.

A. Cavatica
04-11-2004, 09:16 AM
It's disgraceful that Sosa would be the choice when he's not even the best RF in Chicago. What's also disgraceful is that he'll get into the HoF when Baines and Magglio won't. 60-HR seasons will do that for a player.

Sandberg over Fox at second? Debatable. Sandberg over Eddie Collins? No way.

Jenkins over Walsh? I disagree, but Jenkins has a case.

Santo over Ventura? Yes, I have to agree with that, unfortunately. And Hartnett over Fisk too, since Fisk doesn't see himself as a White Sox.

idseer
04-11-2004, 09:22 AM
those were some pretty bad selections, tho i agree with santo over ventura.

thomas over banks at first.
sandberg over fox at second
banks over aparicio at ss. (banks' bat overcomes louie's glove)
santo over ventura at 3rd
fisk over anyone the cubs have ever had at catcher.
minoso over williams in left.
wilson over landis in center
magglio over sosa in right (not purely because of numbers but because sosa enhanced his numbers with steroids and pretty much stunk at everything else). even so i'd give it to magglio.

they actually rated pitching collectively it looked like to me. so there is no way in hell the cubs pitching, either starters or relievers could be considered even close to sox pitching. (even on an individual basis i take wilhelm over anything the cubs ever had and pierce, walsh, cicotte, and faber over the cubs best.

idseer
04-11-2004, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica


Sandberg over Fox at second? Debatable. Sandberg over Eddie Collins? No way.



yep! i clean forgot about collins.

TornLabrum
04-11-2004, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by idseer
yep! i clean forgot about collins.

According to the criteria, Collins was ineligible because he played over have his games with Philadelphia. And Jackson isn't eligible because he isn't in the HOF. The deck was stacked.

fquaye149
04-11-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by idseer



sandberg over fox at second



they actually rated pitching collectively it looked like to me. so there is no way in hell the cubs pitching, either starters or relievers could be considered even close to sox pitching. (even on an individual basis i take wilhelm over anything the cubs ever had and pierce, walsh, cicotte, and faber over the cubs best.


i'm not sure how everyone is convinced sandberg is better than nellie, when nellie is in the hall and sandberg's still treading water. . .


also. . . .i hate the cubs, but mordecai brown is about as good a pitcher as anyone we've ever had with a few exceptions, and it's too bad he keeps getting overlooked

ChiSoxFann
04-11-2004, 09:47 AM
Big Ed won 40 games in one season and had a lifetime era of 1.80, and come on Thomas has the BEST hitter in baseball in the early 90's,im not even gonna start on Fisk and is still a good hitter today but what would you expect

Brian26
04-11-2004, 09:58 AM
I know it was a different era, but 40 wins in one season (with a shorter schedule too) is just absolutely amazing.

misty60481
04-11-2004, 10:24 AM
Moronetti must of had a hand in the selections how come nobody even mentioned Luke Appling?? No way anybody over Ed Walsh either,, I dont know if I would give as big an ewdge to Santo either everybody is on bandwagon for Hall of Fame for him even if he dont deserve it

HaroldFan
04-11-2004, 10:32 AM
Eddie Collins played 1670 games for the Sox and 1156 for the Athletics. 2005 of his 3311 career hits were in a Sox uniform. If this disqualifies him then Jenkins, who won 167 games with the Cubs and 117 with other teams, is disqualified as well.

LongLiveFisk
04-11-2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by idseer
fisk over anyone the cubs have ever had at catcher.


AMEN to that.

And he didn't need to play his whole career here to accomplish that either, IMHO.

Gabby Hartnett over Fisk....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Railsplitter
04-11-2004, 09:09 PM
What further proof do we need that the sports scribblers at the two Chicago papers or full of the same stuff as a used diaper.

Hangar18
04-11-2004, 09:15 PM
Man, I lost a Ton of Respect for Joe Goddard. The best part of his bias, is where he talks about Relief Pitchers all time. He puts Sutters one good year with the flubbies, then a second good season a couple years later. He barely mentions how important Thigpen was to an emerging White Sox team and his Still Major league Record 57 saves. Then says Advantage Cubs.
Unbelievable. And after all of hullabaloo over Steroids and corked bats the last few years, he still calls Sammy the greatest RF ever. I think not ...................

In fact, the SOX only one in 2 categories. That was it. Goddards choices at first glance, would make one think that these same cubs have won over 30 world championships the last 30 years.................. what Trash

Hangar18
04-11-2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by HaroldFan
Eddie Collins played 1670 games for the Sox and 1156 for the Athletics. 2005 of his 3311 career hits were in a Sox uniform. If this disqualifies him then Jenkins, who won 167 games with the Cubs and 117 with other teams, is disqualified as well.

Excellent Point. Unfortuneately, neuvo cub fans are now going to regurgitate Goddards obvious cubpoganda, or "information" as hes calling it, as Fact. Everyone, Be SURE TO MEMORIZE THE FACT Princess FERGIE WON 117 Games with other teams.
There will surely be cub fans Spouting his "numbers" very soon....
you can book it

TornLabrum
04-11-2004, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Excellent Point. Unfortuneately, neuvo cub fans are now going to regurgitate Goddards obvious cubpoganda, or "information" as hes calling it, as Fact. Everyone, Be SURE TO MEMORIZE THE FACT Princess FERGIE WON 117 Games with other teams.
There will surely be cub fans Spouting his "numbers" very soon....
you can book it

Hangar, I think you're giving Cubs fans too much credit. Most of them I know can't read.

MarkEdward
04-11-2004, 11:53 PM
So this guy's criteria seems to be:
1. Players must have played his best years with either Chicago team, and
2. players must have played majority of their careers with Sox/Cubs.

Therefore, I'll abide by his rules. This seems like a fun activity, so I'll try it:
Catcher: Cubs- Gabby Hartnett; Sox- Carlton Fisk
Advantage: Cubs. (Hartnett was very good, arguably better than Fisk).

First base: Cubs- Ernie Banks; Sox- Frank Thomas
Advantage: Sox (Overall, Banks may be the better player, but Thomas the first baseman was better than Banks the first baseman).

Second base: Cubs- Ryne Sandberg; Sox- Eddie Collins.
Advantage: Sox (Screw Goddard. Collins had his best years with the Sox, and if not for his two final seasons, in which he took nine at-bats, he would've spent more years with the Sox).

Third base: Cubs- Ron Santo; Sox- Robin Ventura.
Advantage: Cubs (Sox haven't had many great third baseman).

Shortstop: Cubs- Joe Tinker; Sox- Luke Appling.
Advantage: Sox by a long shot. Appling, for what it's worth, leads all Sox players in Win Shares.

Left field: Cubs- Billy Williams; Sox- Minnie Minoso.
Advantage: Cubs.

Center field: Cubs- Hack Wilson; Sox- Jim Landis.
Advantage: Cubs (Neither team has had a truly great center fielder).

Right field: Cubs- Sammy Sosa; Sox- Magglio Ordonez or Harold Baines.
Advantage: Wash.

Starting pitcher: Cubs- Fergie Jenkins; Sox- Ted Lyons (though I can see the argument for Ed Walsh).
Advantage: Sox.

Relief pitcher: Cubs- Bruce Sutter or Lee Smith; Sox- Hoyt Wilhelm.
Advantage: Sox (I'm impressed by the number of great relievers that have played on both teams).

So here's my all-Chicago team:
C: Hartnett, Cubs.
1B: Thomas, Sox.
2B: Collins, Sox.
3B: Santo, Cubs.
SS: Appling, Sox.
LF: Williams, Cubs.
CF: Wilson, Cubs.
RF: Baines, Sox.
DH: Sosa, Cubs (just to be fair).
SP: Lyons, Sox.
RP: Wilhelm, Sox.

Not a bad team, but I think they'd have trouble beating the all-New York team.

DSpivack
04-12-2004, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Not a bad team, but I think they'd have trouble beating the all-New York team.

Just an all-time Yankee team?

Probably.