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owensmouth
04-10-2004, 06:51 AM
According to an article I just read in the electronic version of the Daily Southtown, the Sox and Magglio are close to an agreement on a new contract:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/101sd6.htm


Now that would be great.

gosox41
04-10-2004, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by owensmouth
According to an article I just read in the electronic version of the Daily Southtown, the Sox and Magglio are close to an agreement on a new contract:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/101sd6.htm


Now that would be great.

I hope Magglio stays around. It would definitely give the JR bashers something else to whine about.


Does anyone remember whatVlad signed for? I thought it was like $12-13 mill per year. I'd love to keep Magglio around for less.



Bob

owensmouth
04-10-2004, 07:25 AM
I think it was about waht Maggs is getting this year, $14 milliom per year. I believe its 70 to 72 million for 5 years.

Brian26
04-10-2004, 07:34 AM
This would be FANTASTIC. What a nice piece of news.

white sox bill
04-10-2004, 08:05 AM
I'll beleive it ONLY whne the ink dries

Wsoxmike59
04-10-2004, 08:15 AM
I'm not sure I agree that Magglio is worth $14-15 Million bucks a year. He wants Vladimir Guerrero type money, but I think Vlad is a more devastating offensive player than Maggs.

Their numbers stack up similarly, but Vlad is over Maggs in lifetime AVG, HR, and RBI in roughly the same amount of games.

I think I'd be OK with the decision to let Magglio walk after the year is over and let one of our many prospects such as Joe Borchard, Jeremy Reed, Ryan Sweeney or Brian Anderson get a shot at the RF slot.

I would then use that money that I saved on not signing Magglio and get a top flight pitcher.

Magglio Ordonez Statistics (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/team/cws_player_stats.jsp?playerid=120044&club_context=cws)

Vladimir Guerrero Statistics (http://anaheim.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/ana/team/ana_player_stats.jsp?playerid=115223&club_context=ana)

SSN721
04-10-2004, 08:24 AM
I like this news, even though I will also beleive it only when the contract is actually signed. but it is nice to hear that something is going on with that. Hopefully we can keep him. I would like it if we could sign him for a little less then 14 mil a year because I also think that he is worth about 12 mil a year for what he does.

voodoochile
04-10-2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Wsoxmike59
I'm not sure I agree that Magglio is worth $14-15 Million bucks a year. He wants Vladimir Guerrero type money, but I think Vlad is a more devastating offensive player than Maggs.

Their numbers stack up similarly, but Vlad is over Maggs in lifetime AVG, HR, and RBI in roughly the same amount of games.

I think I'd be OK with the decision to let Magglio walk after the year is over and let one of our many prospects such as Joe Borchard, Jeremy Reed, Ryan Sweeney or Brian Anderson get a shot at the RF slot.

I would then use that money that I saved on not signing Magglio and get a top flight pitcher.


When has JR ever been willing to shell out big bucks over the number of years necessary to sign a "top flight pithcer"?

Take what you can get and make the prospects beat him out. When that happens, you can trade Maggs for a couple of top flight pitchers....

Railsplitter
04-10-2004, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I hope Magglio stays around. It would definitely give the JR bashers something else to whine about.






It would also be egg on Moronotti's face.

southsidegirl
04-10-2004, 08:50 AM
KW and JR better do anything they can to resign him. 14 mil for your best player isn't that much for you're best player, and he's the best we have right now. Also, it would be terrible for PR, if in fact it can get any worse.

Wsoxmike59
04-10-2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
When has JR ever been willing to shell out big bucks over the number of years necessary to sign a "top flight pithcer"?


..... Did you forget the Jaime Navarro signing already Voodoo? ? Most of the HR's he gave up were top flight!!


P.S. I love the handle Voodoochile....is that a SRV or Hendrix reference??

Paulwny
04-10-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Wsoxmike59
..... Did you forget the Jaime Navarro signing already Voodoo? ? Most of the HR's he gave up were top flight!!



JR needs to get over this, just because he was burned in the Navarro deal we'll never sign a FA starting pitcher.

SoxBoy14
04-10-2004, 09:34 AM
During the preseason I was hoping we would trade Maggs for some grat pitchers, but now that I've seen how well he's been doing I really want him to stay on the Sox.

harwar
04-10-2004, 10:05 AM
I'm surprised by this as Reinsdorf was on Mike Norths' show before yesterdays' game and he said they tried to sign Maggs last year but that Ordonez wants to test the waters after this year.
Also,Reinsdorf sounded very depressed that the big trade(A.Rod,Ordonez,&Nomar G.)fell through.He said that the White Sox have an abundance of fine young outfielders and that he really wanted Nomar on the White Sox.
I for one am very glad it fell through as Nomar made it no secret that he wanted no part of the White Sox.Its the last year on both Maggs & Nomars' contract so they would both be gone after this year anyway.

TaylorStSox
04-10-2004, 10:33 AM
I don't know. I don't want one of my players openly talking about playing for another team. Especially, when we're playing them right now. He said they're "close." He also said, "it wouldn't be hard for me to play here" and "I've got to go next year." What the hell is that?

I really want Magglio to resign. I like what he brings to the table. However, like I've said before, if he wants "Vlad money," I'll pack his bags for him.

If we could get an Upton, Greene, or Weeks type of infield prospect for him, along with a pitcher, I'd pull the trigger ASAP.

83 White Sox
04-10-2004, 10:39 AM
This surprises me but Jim Kirk's column in the Trib yesterday, he writes abt the Sox targeting the Hispanic market. I'd have to think that if the Sox are serious abt this, Mags is a vital part to this plan.

Personally, I love Mags and would love for him to stay but that is alot of money when we have starting pitching needs and a couple of very nice OF prospects.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/columnists/

MRKARNO
04-10-2004, 10:50 AM
This just goes to show you that the organization realizes how important Maggs is and that they were not really just going to wait for November to negotiate with him. KW isn't that stupid.

CubKilla
04-10-2004, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
It would definitely give the JR bashers something else to whine about.

You'd hear no whining from any Sox fan if Maggs resigned and stayed on the Southside.

Maggs is one of those special players that doesn't come along very often that you build a ballclub around. I'm sure JR, trying to justify his penny-pinching ways, might even realize that letting Maggs go for nothing at seasons end will do more harm with his tenuous fanbase than raising prices on tics, parking, and concessions.

I sure hope Maggs likes deferred money.

batmanZoSo
04-10-2004, 11:24 AM
Whether you think Maggs is worth 14 million a year or not, just remember that we're paying him that right now and we have a lot of dead weight in salary to cut--Valentin, Koch, Konerko. If we can afford to pay Maggs 14 now, there's no reason we can't in the future if we allocate the rest of the payroll more wisely.

He's not quite as good a hitter as Vlad, but Vlad's kind of a butcher in the field isn't he? I know he likes to air mail his throws from time to time. If you go by stats, Magglio's probably worth 12-13 million if Vlad is making 14. I say what's the difference? The boat probably passed on us trading Maggs for comparable value, and it would be horrible for PR to trade him this summer, so we might as well go ahead and give him what he wants. He's a special player. He's the best corner outfielder we've had in decades.

Daver
04-10-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Wsoxmike59


P.S. I love the handle Voodoochile....is that a SRV or Hendrix reference??

He stole it from my dog.



:)

TaylorStSox
04-10-2004, 11:26 AM
Vlad's a butcher in the field? You have to be kidding me. He's the second best right fielder in baseball, behind Ichiro IMO. Plus, he has the strongest arm in the game.

batmanZoSo
04-10-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
Vlad's a butcher in the field? You have to be kidding me. He's the second best right fielder in baseball, behind Ichiro IMO. Plus, he has the strongest arm in the game.

He has a cannon, but I've seen him look silly out there on SportsCenter more than once. I haven't seen him play that much but he seems pretty clumsy in right, at least in the catching aspect. He can definitely throw.

TaylorStSox
04-10-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
He has a cannon, but I've seen him look silly out there on SportsCenter more than once. I haven't seen him play that much but he seems pretty clumsy in right, at least in the catching aspect. He can definitely throw.

By that logic, the White Sox wouldn't exist, all runs would be scored off of homers and there wouldn't be any good pitching. Vlad runs well enough to get to tons of balls that Maggs wouldn't have a shot at. There's alot of misconceptions about him really. He's not injury prone, he's not clumsy, he's got good speed and he's not that bulky. For my money, he's the best all around player in the game (hmmm Arod should be there too). True 5 tool players are that rare.

Whitesox029
04-10-2004, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by white sox bill
I'll beleive it ONLY whne the ink dries
I hope you meant the ink on the contract and not on the newspaper. Not to put a damper on all this, but I haven't seen anything in the Cubune yet or heard anything on the radio. I'll get excited and happy, as Bill said, when the ink dries [on the contract], and provided the doesn't mean that Konerko has to leave.

Nick@Nite
04-10-2004, 11:47 AM
Re-sign him... use the OF prospects to trade for pitching, that is if there's any pitching out there available... just re-sign Maggs.

voodoochile
04-10-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Wsoxmike59
..... Did you forget the Jaime Navarro signing already Voodoo? ? Most of the HR's he gave up were top flight!!


P.S. I love the handle Voodoochile....is that a SRV or Hendrix reference??

Hendrix wrote and performed it, but I do love SRV too...

soxwon
04-10-2004, 11:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wsoxmike59
[B]I'm not sure I agree that Magglio is worth $14-15 Million bucks a year.

MIKE look at how maggs has started, he might hit 40 this year, maggs is the best right fielder in baseball. sign him quickly.

batmanZoSo
04-10-2004, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
By that logic, the White Sox wouldn't exist, all runs would be scored off of homers and there wouldn't be any good pitching. Vlad runs well enough to get to tons of balls that Maggs wouldn't have a shot at. There's alot of misconceptions about him really. He's not injury prone, he's not clumsy, he's got good speed and he's not that bulky. For my money, he's the best all around player in the game (hmmm Arod should be there too). True 5 tool players are that rare.

Come on now. By THAT logic you can't believe anything you see.

And Guerrero's only a step or two faster than Maggs, who has a 25 steal season to his credit. Guerrero's not Ichiro on the basepaths.

I think Arod's better than anyone. Guerrero's a decent fielder but Arod's a great one. And to be that good a hitter at a speed position is phenominal. Arod's right up there with Michael Jordan in the special athletes category.

OurBitchinMinny
04-11-2004, 12:04 AM
I dont understand why JR wont spend like a big market team. They play in chicago, not des moines. THey should have a payroll at least 80 mill. I would love to see them sign maggs, and then go out and get beltran. What an outfield that would be. I know it wont happen, but it would be nice

DSpivack
04-11-2004, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
I dont understand why JR wont spend like a big market team. They play in chicago, not des moines. THey should have a payroll at least 80 mill. I would love to see them sign maggs, and then go out and get beltran. What an outfield that would be. I know it wont happen, but it would be nice

I'm gonna be really pissed if Maggs isn't back.

As for Beltran, that would be awesome, but even if Schoney is decent, I would spend the $$$ on a pitcher, especially with the outfield prospects we have.... which unfortunately are all seemingly corner OFers, when we already have Lee/Maggs; Can Magglio play CF? Can Reed, Borchard, or Sweeney? Hopefully one of them can.

DSpivack
04-11-2004, 12:44 AM
"It wouldn't be hard for me to play here," Ordonez said of New York. "Some players talk about the media and all that, but if the media wants to talk to me, I talk, so that's not a problem.

Ummm.... Would it be hard for any superstar such as Maggs to play in New York?

Viva Magglio
04-11-2004, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by DSpivack
"It wouldn't be hard for me to play here," Ordonez said of New York. "Some players talk about the media and all that, but if the media wants to talk to me, I talk, so that's not a problem.

Ummm.... Would it be hard for any superstar such as Maggs to play in New York?

If, God forbid, Maggs were to become a Yankee, just wait until he strikes out in Yankee Stadium to end the game with ducks on the pond in a one-run game. The back pages of the New York Post and New York Daily News would not be pretty.

MisterB
04-11-2004, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
I dont understand why JR wont spend like a big market team. They play in chicago, not des moines. THey should have a payroll at least 80 mill.

The Sox are badly marketed and JR insists on alienating the existing fanbase, therefore the Sox revenue is far below what it otherwise would be.

davidleeroth
04-11-2004, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by DSpivack
"It wouldn't be hard for me to play here," Ordonez said of New York. "Some players talk about the media and all that, but if the media wants to talk to me, I talk, so that's not a problem.

Ummm.... Would it be hard for any superstar such as Maggs to play in New York?

until gary sheffield is gone, it may be a little hard for mags to crack right field in yankee stadium. the mets, on the other hand, are a different story.

gosox41
04-11-2004, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Whether you think Maggs is worth 14 million a year or not, just remember that we're paying him that right now and we have a lot of dead weight in salary to cut--Valentin, Koch, Konerko. If we can afford to pay Maggs 14 now, there's no reason we can't in the future if we allocate the rest of the payroll more wisely.

He's not quite as good a hitter as Vlad, but Vlad's kind of a butcher in the field isn't he? I know he likes to air mail his throws from time to time. If you go by stats, Magglio's probably worth 12-13 million if Vlad is making 14. I say what's the difference? The boat probably passed on us trading Maggs for comparable value, and it would be horrible for PR to trade him this summer, so we might as well go ahead and give him what he wants. He's a special player. He's the best corner outfielder we've had in decades.

WIth KW I think there's always going to be deadweight on the payroll.

Bob

cleats67
04-11-2004, 09:14 AM
I wouldn't get too fired up yet about this story. In talking with a source last week, they are not far on money. However, JR wants to defer most of it to the back end of the contract (as he typically does) and Maggs wants more up front. Didn't sound like it was a real positive scenario.

fquaye149
04-11-2004, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by davidleeroth
until gary sheffield is gone, it may be a little hard for mags to crack right field in yankee stadium. the mets, on the other hand, are a different story.


if steinbrenner wants maggs bad enough, he'll dump matsui and put him in left field (where he belongs). or dump bernie and put him in center.

SEALgep
04-11-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by cleats67
I wouldn't get too fired up yet about this story. In talking with a source last week, they are not far on money. However, JR wants to defer most of it to the back end of the contract (as he typically does) and Maggs wants more up front. Didn't sound like it was a real positive scenario. I'm not a big fan of backloading contracts. All it does is make it harder for the future. Spread it more evenly so you at least have a consistent budget to work with. That's what I would do anyway.

Lip Man 1
04-11-2004, 01:24 PM
But good old Uncle Jerry wants to be able to dump players off in the final year or so to teams that actually want to win. That's why he insists on backloading contracts (like with Buehrle) and having 'out clauses' (like with Belle after only two years of his deal and Thomas' diminished skills clause)

You have to hand it to good ole Uncle Jerry, he's cut throat when it comes to protecting his financial interests.

Lip

Cubbiesuck13
04-11-2004, 10:39 PM
I gotta say, if they let mags walk for only wanting 'vlad money' then this will be as infamous as the new park debacle. Lets think what 'vlad money' will be next year. With salaries on the decline, and vlad making his bucks in a rediculous time for contracts; 'vlad money' will be less than 14 mil per. I guess that he is making 12 mil this year(?????) or something like that. It is not a stretch to re-sign him. Trading him instead of unproven '5 tool' prospects for a SP is not smart. I see mags re-signing after the break.

SEALgep
04-11-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
I gotta say, if they let mags walk for only wanting 'vlad money' then this will be as infamous as the new park debacle. Lets think what 'vlad money' will be next year. With salaries on the decline, and vlad making his bucks in a rediculous time for contracts; 'vlad money' will be less than 14 mil per. I guess that he is making 12 mil this year(?????) or something like that. It is not a stretch to re-sign him. Trading him instead of unproven '5 tool' prospects for a SP is not smart. I see mags re-signing after the break. Vlad's averaging 14 million per year.

joecrede
04-11-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
But good old Uncle Jerry wants to be able to dump players off in the final year or so to teams that actually want to win. That's why he insists on backloading contracts (like with Buehrle) and having 'out clauses' (like with Belle after only two years of his deal and Thomas' diminished skills clause)

You have to hand it to good ole Uncle Jerry, he's cut throat when it comes to protecting his financial interests.

Lip

You're going to have to explain your beef with Reinsdorf to me on this one Lip.

mweflen
04-11-2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Nick@Nite
Re-sign him... use the OF prospects to trade for pitching, that is if there's any pitching out there available... just re-sign Maggs.

I was just thinking this the other day ...

quality outfielders are a dime a dozen, while quality pitchers are rare.

Magglio-level outfielders on the other hand are rare as well. He could very well replicate his success consistently for 5 more years.

I'd give him 13 mil per year for 6.

If we can get even a 15-game winner for Borchard and Anderson, I say DO IT. Trade them to an offense-starved team like the Dodgers, D-Rays, Flubs, Marlins, and get either one great arm or 2-3 quality ones.

joeynach
04-12-2004, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I'm not a big fan of backloading contracts. All it does is make it harder for the future. Spread it more evenly so you at least have a consistent budget to work with. That's what I would do anyway.

I feel the exact same way. Backloading is not a good thing. I dont know why JR and KW employ it in all their contracts. It just makes it that much harder to resign them towards the end. It seems very illogical from a business standpoint. Usually you want a nice even chas flow and some consistency from year to year. Not grossly out of proportion numbers for the same player putting up the same numbers. The way i see it keeping the contract at an even payment every year is better for both parties. Like say Maggs does downhill and gets injusrued later in his career. We dont then owe him like 18 mil on year he rides the DL or pulls a Konerko and goes ice cold. I dont get why JR and KW use them so much.

gosox41
04-12-2004, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
But good old Uncle Jerry wants to be able to dump players off in the final year or so to teams that actually want to win. That's why he insists on backloading contracts (like with Buehrle) and having 'out clauses' (like with Belle after only two years of his deal and Thomas' diminished skills clause)

You have to hand it to good ole Uncle Jerry, he's cut throat when it comes to protecting his financial interests.

Lip

Lip,

Just a quick question. You say the Sox need to sign free agent veteran pitching to win. If the Sox did let Magglio go an signed 2 good veteran pitchers would you be happy?

And before you say something about the haords of cash and signing 2 beteran pitchers plus Magglio, I think the odds of that happening are about as good as you saying something positive about Sox ownership. :smile:

Though of course I (and you) would love to see it happen, it's not happening like that.


Bob

Gammons Peter
04-12-2004, 09:24 AM
as per AM1000 and The Daily Southtown

fledgedrallycap
04-12-2004, 09:26 AM
I just heard the tail end of SportsCenter on ESPN 1000 state the Maggs said he is "close" to a long-term deal with the White Sox. Any evidence of this in the papers?

Jerry_Manuel
04-12-2004, 09:31 AM
The Southtown had a little bit on it the other day, with Magglio saying they we're close.

Today they have this:

Ordonez seeking five-year deal

According to a source in the White Sox organization, the first obstacle that needs to be cleared in the current negotiations to sign Magglio Ordonez to a long-term contract is the length of the deal.
The Sox want to give Ordonez a four-year deal worth close to the $14 million per season he wants, but Ordonez is seeking a five-year deal that isn't as backloaded as the Sox's current offer.

Ordonez told The Daily Southtown on Friday that a deal was "close," and both sides were "trying really hard" to finalize it. Ordonez also said he's not the type of player who will stop talking contract with the team until the end of the season because it's too big of a distraction. Of course, he's letting his representatives do most of the talking.

DMarte708
04-12-2004, 09:35 AM
$14 million for 5 years! Thats insane. I hope the price is lowered because at our current 68 Million dollar payroll the Sox cannot afford to sign Mags for that price. Well, Of course they can but how much flexibility room does that leave us?

CHISOXFAN13
04-12-2004, 09:36 AM
I think the Sox should do whatever it takes to get this deal done today or tomorrow morning so there is even more good karma floating around the South Side tomorrow.

jabrch
04-12-2004, 09:38 AM
That would bring nice positive energy to opening day. Would shut up some of the critics also. Might help encourage some others to stick around or to come here?

kittle42
04-12-2004, 09:41 AM
Hey, hey! Another backloaded contract offer!

MisterB
04-12-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by DMarte708
$14 million for 5 years! Thats insane. I hope the price is lowered because at our current 68 Million dollar payroll the Sox cannot afford to sign Mags for that price. Well, Of course they can but how much flexibility room does that leave us?

Koch and Valentin are gone after this year, which frees up almost $12M, and I don't think anyone signed for next year is due a huge raise.

The Sox want to give Ordonez a four-year deal worth close to the $14 million per season he wants, but Ordonez is seeking a five-year deal that isn't as backloaded as the Sox's current offer.

What's the over/under on how long it'll take Lip to chime in on this one... :D:

Jerry_Manuel
04-12-2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
What's the over/under on how long it'll take Lip to chime in on this one... :D:

I'm glad to see I wasn't the one only thinking about that. :smile:

However, backloading the deal is vital if they're gonna continue to leave the payroll at 60 million.

JDP
04-12-2004, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Koch and Valentin are gone after this year, which frees up almost $12M, and I don't think anyone signed for next year is due a huge raise.


I dunno about "huge raises", but:

Konerko goes up $0.75
Thomas goes up $2.0 (if optioned)
Buehrle goes up $2.0
Lee goes up $2.0

That's $6.75 extra on the books already for next year. If you subtract Koch's $6.375 and Valentin's $5.0, that frees up $11.375, half of which is chewed up on the 'big salary increases.' So, after the above-mentioned four get their raises, that leaves $4.625 less off the payroll. Resigning Magglio for $14.0 doesn't add anything to the books as of salary right now, as he is signed for $14.0 for '04 as is.

Basically, if Koch/Valentin depart, the four above are on the '05 club at their respective raises, then Magglio can be brought back and this team will still be sitting (as of right now) at about $4.625 less than the current payroll -- and that might be needed to cover all the small raises (ie: Crede up a few hundred thousand, Marte's raise, etc.).

So, signing Maggs @ $14.0 = same payroll next year as is right now, minus Koch and Valentin.

That doesn't leave much flexibility to make a FA-splash, so if Maggs is resigned, then we'll be looking at a few rookies and/or "bargain FA's" to fill holes once again next year.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention: Garland will be hitting arbitration and/or seeking a deal as well.

CubKilla
04-12-2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by DMarte708
$14 million for 5 years! Thats insane.

Whatever. You think the MLBPA is going to allow a player like Maggs to sign for far less than he is worth simply so the White Sox can remain more competitive?

Maggs' worth is well within the $12-$14 million/year ballpark.

CubKilla
04-12-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
Hey, hey! Another backloaded contract offer!

You expected any different with JR? This is SOP for this moron. We'll get another year or two out of Maggs then, this time, the Sox trade Maggs when he's due to make the big money.

I'd be shocked if anyone here at WSI might feign complete surprise that JR would do business any other way with a star-caliber player.

iwannago
04-12-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by DMarte708
$14 million for 5 years! Thats insane. I hope the price is lowered because at our current 68 Million dollar payroll the Sox cannot afford to sign Mags for that price. Well, Of course they can but how much flexibility room does that leave us?

Maybe they need to get out of the $68M way of thinking. For a city as large as Chicago 85 to 95 million seems about right.

DMarte708
04-12-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Whatever. You think the MLBPA is going to allow a player like Maggs to sign for far less than he is worth simply so the White Sox can remain more competitive?

Maggs' worth is well within the $12-$14 million/year ballpark.

"Insane" within the limits of our current payroll. I wasn't willing to look up incentives/ raises come next year, but JDP posted what I believed: there's virtually no room (within JR's desired 60 million dollar ceiling) to sign quality FA's. Octavio Dotel and Edgar Renteria sure would look good in a White Sox uniform....

Randar68
04-12-2004, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by JDP
I dunno about "huge raises", but:

Konerko goes up $0.75
Thomas goes up $2.0 (if optioned)
Buehrle goes up $2.0
Lee goes up $2.0

That's $6.75 extra on the books already for next year. If you subtract Koch's $6.375 and Valentin's $5.0, that frees up $11.375, half of which is chewed up on the 'big salary increases.' So, after the above-mentioned four get their raises, that leaves $4.625 less off the payroll. Resigning Magglio for $14.0 doesn't add anything to the books as of salary right now, as he is signed for $14.0 for '04 as is.

Basically, if Koch/Valentin depart, the four above are on the '05 club at their respective raises, then Magglio can be brought back and this team will still be sitting (as of right now) at about $4.625 less than the current payroll -- and that might be needed to cover all the small raises (ie: Crede up a few hundred thousand, Marte's raise, etc.).

So, signing Maggs @ $14.0 = same payroll next year as is right now, minus Koch and Valentin.

That doesn't leave much flexibility to make a FA-splash, so if Maggs is resigned, then we'll be looking at a few rookies and/or "bargain FA's" to fill holes once again next year.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention: Garland will be hitting arbitration and/or seeking a deal as well.

Ordonez is making 14 million THIS year. Koch/Valentin gone after this year. Konerko gone after next year. That's almost 12 million of this year's payroll off the books for next season, with an additional 8+ gone after next season. That allows for some mid-level acquisitions and re-signings.

Don't forget about Loaiza. His 3.5 million comes off the books after this year, but hopefully they can resign him.

Randar68
04-12-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by iwannago
Maybe they need to get out of the $68M way of thinking. For a city as large as Chicago 85 to 95 million seems about right.

There is a color for pipedreams: deeppink

It's going to take enormous attendance over a couple consecutive years or new ownership.

Randar68
04-12-2004, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
You expected any different with JR? This is SOP for this moron. We'll get another year or two out of Maggs then, this time, the Sox trade Maggs when he's due to make the big money.

I'd be shocked if anyone here at WSI might feign complete surprise that JR would do business any other way with a star-caliber player.

It depends what portion of the contract is deferred. If a significant portion of the back-weighted years is deferred, then it makes perfect sense that they'd keep him unless they fell completely into shambles in 2 or 3 years...

DrCrawdad
04-12-2004, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
That would bring nice positive energy to opening day. Would shut up some of the critics also. Might help encourage some others to stick around or to come here?

Announcing the re-signing of Maggs on tomorrow on the video screen would be awesome! Generate some positive energy, raise the new roof!

CHISOXFAN13
04-12-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Announcing the re-signing of Maggs on tomorrow on the video screen would be awesome! Generate some positive energy, raise the new roof!

And stick a fork in tha blowhole Mariotti who obviously doesn't listen to the sportscenter updates.

anewman35
04-12-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
WIth KW I think there's always going to be deadweight on the payroll.

Bob

Show me a team in baseball that doesn't have deadweight on the payroll.

Hangar18
04-12-2004, 10:34 AM
I can see JR doing that, signing him for 5 years, with 80% of the money in the last 2 years, and we basically keep him for 2 years........ But I'll take it. THIS WILL MAKE ME RENEW MY TICKETS

jabrch
04-12-2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
You expected any different with JR? This is SOP for this moron. We'll get another year or two out of Maggs then, this time, the Sox trade Maggs when he's due to make the big money.

I'd be shocked if anyone here at WSI might feign complete surprise that JR would do business any other way with a star-caliber player.

backloading deals is STANDARD for most teams in baseball. geez, Steinbrenner backloaded Sheffield's deal. this is how contracts are done. Bash JR for what deserves bashing, but backloading a deal is not worthy of that. If Magglio wants, at a very low discount rate, he can take the backloaded money and have it converted to cash today. I think the cost is about 40,000$ per 1,000,000 per year - that's pocket change. If he doesn't take a 14mm deal that is backloaded (remember - backloaded does not equal deferred) then it is because he doesn't want to be here. If that's the case, good bye Maggs, I will miss you. But that money can be used to get Beltran/Garrett Anderson, etc. or to get a front line SP if Magglio doesn't think that it is enough for him.

SEALgep
04-12-2004, 10:43 AM
I believe we are going to show we are a winning team this year, and win the division. In turn, I believe we will have a large turn out from our fan base and generate more revenue. I for one, and I know many disagree, believe JR and KW that they put the majority of what is made back into the team. If we go to the playoffs and earn that extra money, I believe we will have a respectable increase in the payroll. We are at $68 million now, which is slightly over budget, so taking that in consideration, I don't think it is unreasonable to believe we could have a $75 million dollar payroll. In the addition with some contracts ending, even if we keep the people this involves, we will sign them for far less than their current contracts. Also, we have some talent coming in that will be ready for next year, Cotts as a starter possibly. That extra money, minors ready for next step, and the fact that I think we already have a good team, next year looks real good to me as of now. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I'm sure JR is taking that into consideration when offering Maggs a contract. I heard another offer rumor that said 6 years for $68 million. Whatever it is, I think it's evident that we need Maggs. The future 3 won't all be ready at the same time, and there is no way to tell that they'll all be locks, especially at Maggs level. We'll see, but I am confident Maggs will be around here for a while. I too hope it doesn't lock us up, but I do think JR doesn't want that either, and is considering all scenerios.

Randar68
04-12-2004, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I believe we are going to show we are a winning team this year, and win the division. In turn, I believe we will have a large turn out from our fan base and generate more revenue. I for one, and I know many disagree, believe JR and KW that they put the majority of what is made back into the team. If we go to the playoffs and earn that extra money, I believe we will have a respectable increase in the payroll. We are at $68 million now, which is slightly over budget, so taking that in consideration, I don't think it is unreasonable to believe we could have a $75 million dollar payroll. In the addition with some contracts ending, even if we keep the people this involves, we will sign them for far less than their current contracts. Also, we have some talent coming in that will be ready for next year, Cotts as a starter possibly. That extra money, minors ready for next step, and the fact that I think we already have a good team, next year looks real good to me as of now. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I'm sure JR is taking that into consideration when offering Maggs a contract. I heard another offer rumor that said 6 years for $68 million. Whatever it is, I think it's evident that we need Maggs. The future 3 won't all be ready at the same time, and there is no way to tell that they'll all be locks, especially at Maggs level. We'll see, but I am confident Maggs will be around here for a while. I too hope it doesn't lock us up, but I do think JR doesn't want that either, and is considering all scenerios.

Ever optimistic. Ahhhh, to be young again...

SEALgep
04-12-2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Ever optimistic. Ahhhh, to be young again... Lol, I hope it's more on the realistic side, but I'm not ignorant enough to say this is for sure. We can all hope, regardless of age. :smile:

34 Inch Stick
04-12-2004, 11:07 AM
I would have a boner you could pound nails with if this happened.

The next move is to sign Loiza to a 3 year deal.

Unregistered
04-12-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I would have a boner you could pound nails with if this happened. :o:

Hangar18
04-12-2004, 11:16 AM
Carmen and Silvi on am1000 are saying Steinbrenner has told anyone listening that after seeing MAGGS in NY this weekend, he wants him badly. I'll bet JR is tired of getting one-upped by other teams and is gonna stick it to King George and Keep Maggs.
Good for JR

jabrch
04-12-2004, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Carmen and Silvi on am1000 are saying Steinbrenner has told anyone listening that after seeing MAGGS in NY this weekend, he wants him badly. I'll bet JR is tired of getting one-upped by other teams and is gonna stick it to King George and Keep Maggs.
Good for JR

I can't see the yanks going for Maggs. They really need a CF (Beltran) and SP next year in the offseason. With sheff and Matsui, they are fine at the corners.

SEALgep
04-12-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Carmen and Silvi on am1000 are saying Steinbrenner has told anyone listening that after seeing MAGGS in NY this weekend, he wants him badly. I'll bet JR is tired of getting one-upped by other teams and is gonna stick it to King George and Keep Maggs.
Good for JR I didn't think it was possible, but that makes me want to extend him even more.

DMarte708
04-12-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I would have a boner you could pound nails with if this happened.

The next move is to sign Loiza to a 3 year deal.

Thats a tricky situation with Loaiza. Do you wait until the end of the season where you might have to pay big money for another 20+ season (or losing him in free agency)? Or simply bank on Loaiza returning back to earth and signing him to a reasonable 3 year 18 million dollar deal? You can't expect him to win 21 games again this year, but I believe its not ludicrous to stamp 16-18 in the win column. He could be necessary to our future whether he's our #1 or #3.

Lip Man 1
04-12-2004, 01:35 PM
Joe:

I guess it would depend of what pitchers. According to Sports Illustrated the only real quality starting pitcher available as a free agent after this year is Pedro Martinez.

Lip

SoxxoS
04-12-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by DMarte708
Thats a tricky situation with Loaiza. Do you wait until the end of the season where you might have to pay big money for another 20+ season (or losing him in free agency)? Or simply bank on Loaiza returning back to earth and signing him to a reasonable 3 year 18 million dollar deal? You can't expect him to win 21 games again this year, but I believe its not ludicrous to stamp 16-18 in the win column. He could be necessary to our future whether he's our #1 or #3.

I sign him right now. He looked good on Wednesday. He still had the 95 mph heater, he hardly threw any cutters, and still got the "W"

Wait about 2 or 3 starts, then I try to sign him, b/c IF he has a season like last, he is going to be out of JR's price range for pitchers.