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View Full Version : Rauch has a solid start, Honel leaves game with "elbow injury"


SoxxoS
04-09-2004, 01:12 PM
Rauch was solid-Went 5 and 2/3rds, giving up one 1 run, 1 earned, 6 hits, only one walk and 3 K's. Nice. He is going to be nice to have if Show or Wright falter.

Reed and Borchard went 1 for 4. Reed struck out twice, though. I think he needs to take some time off, that wrist is having an effect. We aren't in dire need of his services now, anyway. He needs to be healthy for later in the season.


Double-A Birmingham righthander Kris Honel lasted four innings in an 11-1 loss to West Tenn before leaving the game with unspecified pain in his elbow. He is expected to be examined by doctors today.

I don't like the sound of that AT ALL. It's the first game of the season, FCOL.

TaylorStSox
04-09-2004, 01:13 PM
:angry: :angry: That's not good at all.

Hangar18
04-09-2004, 01:25 PM
I dont like the way this sounds..........at all. How can this
team have so much bad luck ........................... :angry:

poorme
04-09-2004, 01:29 PM
OK. This is very preliminary - he could be fine...BUT, this just shows the folly of drafting high school pitchers.

SoxxoS
04-09-2004, 01:37 PM
Mine as well get Tommy John out of the way...ala Kerri Wood.

I am not saying this injury is that serious, but if it is...Honel's ETA-

2006... :angry:

jeremyb1
04-09-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Mine as well get Tommy John out of the way...ala Kerri Wood.

I am not saying this injury is that serious, but if it is...Honel's ETA-

2006... :angry:

Better than a shoulder injury.

jackbrohamer
04-09-2004, 02:16 PM
Seems like every time a Sox pitcher has pain in his elbow it winds up needing surgery

Lip Man 1
04-09-2004, 09:26 PM
And you wonder why the Sox never win anything. (but of course many fans here at WSI still insist that going with 'can't miss kids,' is the way to go!)

Haven't the stellar performances over the past ten years collectively by our 'can't miss kids,' taught them anything?

So while the Sox keep spinning their wheels, hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with a number of kids, at the same time , other teams like the Yankees, Braves and Cubs (just to name a few) keep going out and signing free agent pitching. Pitching that has proven themselves over time to win in the major leagues.

Lip

Chisox_cali
04-09-2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
And you wonder why the Sox never win anything. (but of course many fans here at WSI still insist that going with 'can't miss kids,' is the way to go!)

Haven't the stellar performances over the past ten years collectively by our 'can't miss kids,' taught them anything?

So while the Sox keep spinning their wheels, hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with a number of kids, at the same time , other teams like the Yankees, Braves and Cubs (just to name a few) keep going out and signing free agent pitching. Pitching that has proven themselves over time to win in the major leagues.

Lip

Hmmm, I was hoping that in your time gone you could think of something, you know, more original to say. Not the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over http://sludgefactory.50megs.com/images/asleep.gifhttp://sludgefactory.50megs.com/images/asleep.gifhttp://sludgefactory.50megs.com/images/asleep.gif (now you know how I feel reading you posts)

P.S. You're still using the wrong color for sarcasm. It's Teal not Green

gosox41
04-10-2004, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
And you wonder why the Sox never win anything. (but of course many fans here at WSI still insist that going with 'can't miss kids,' is the way to go!)

Haven't the stellar performances over the past ten years collectively by our 'can't miss kids,' taught them anything?

So while the Sox keep spinning their wheels, hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with a number of kids, at the same time , other teams like the Yankees, Braves and Cubs (just to name a few) keep going out and signing free agent pitching. Pitching that has proven themselves over time to win in the major leagues.

Lip

WHo did the Cubs sign besides Maddux and Hawkins. Last year they went far with Wood, Zambrano and Prior. All 3 were drafted by the Cubs. Clement was part of a trade.

I know they had a couple of other FA signings in the bullpen (Remlinger for one) but let's face it this team is buils around its starters. 3/5 of its starters were drafted by the Cubs. Maddux is good but he is definitely not the Maddux of 5 years ago and the Cubs probably overpaid to get him.


Bob

owensmouth
04-10-2004, 08:04 AM
Better to have a minor league system that can develop your pitchers than to try and buy established veterans.

Even if you do go out and buy some veterans, there's as good a chance that they will not meet your expectations.

Look at how much money gets thrown around every year and remember, only one team wins the World Series.

Last year the Yankees were considered invincible because of their vaunted group of starters. The Marlins beat them with a home grown kid.

SSN721
04-10-2004, 08:28 AM
I also beleive that you must have a farm system that can produce adequate pitching. If we had to pay an entire staff veteran prices I dont care how you work the numbers there is no way that the Sox could afford to pay 5 veteran starters, not to mention how much a quality bullpen would cost. I think a team should be able to at least give 2-3 homegrown starters and then worry about signing veterans, I think most veteran pitchers are as much of a crapshoot as "cant miss kids" you sometimes never know from year to year if they will repeat previous performance.

TaylorStSox
04-10-2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
And you wonder why the Sox never win anything. (but of course many fans here at WSI still insist that going with 'can't miss kids,' is the way to go!)

Haven't the stellar performances over the past ten years collectively by our 'can't miss kids,' taught them anything?

So while the Sox keep spinning their wheels, hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with a number of kids, at the same time , other teams like the Yankees, Braves and Cubs (just to name a few) keep going out and signing free agent pitching. Pitching that has proven themselves over time to win in the major leagues.

Lip


I don't understand this post at all. There's news that the only real prospect left in system may have arm issues and you use it as an oppurtunity to rip the organization. It's poor taste really. This thread is about Honel's possible injury, not the organization's farm philosophy.

Lip Man 1
04-10-2004, 01:46 PM
Taylor:

The premise of the post was that the Sox refuse to pay for quality pitching via the free agent route. The Sox will trade for it but that only weakens other areas of the team.

Pitching wins championships.

The Sox refuse to acquire it because a la Williams' quote the Sox can't (or more probably won't) pay for it. Therefore they have to rely on their 'can't miss kids.' Those 'can't miss kids' collectively have done very little over the past ten years (and not coincidentally neither have the Sox) besides get hurt or fail miserably (with the pronounced exception of Buehrle.)

For the Sox to win a championship with this philosophy they would have to get incredibly lucky by having a number of kids all get good at roughly the same time frame.

Do you know how long those odds are?

Bottom line, their penny pinching ways on pitching have done nothing. That philosophy is a dismal failure...why can't they realize this and change their ways.

and with respect to Bob, you can nit pick over my use of the Cubs but that doesn't change the overall theme does it? Good teams who consistently win, have good pitching. Pitching costs money...the good teams pay for it. The Sox continue to 'hope.'

Lip

jeremyb1
04-10-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Taylor:

The premise of the post was that the Sox refuse to pay for quality pitching via the free agent route. The Sox will trade for it but that only weakens other areas of the team.

Pitching wins championships.

The Sox refuse to acquire it because a la Williams' quote the Sox can't (or more probably won't) pay for it. Therefore they have to rely on their 'can't miss kids.' Those 'can't miss kids' collectively have done very little over the past ten years (and not coincidentally neither have the Sox) besides get hurt or fail miserably (with the pronounced exception of Buehrle.)

For the Sox to win a championship with this philosophy they would have to get incredibly lucky by having a number of kids all get good at roughly the same time frame.

Do you know how long those odds are?

Bottom line, their penny pinching ways on pitching have done nothing. That philosophy is a dismal failure...why can't they realize this and change their ways.

and with respect to Bob, you can nit pick over my use of the Cubs but that doesn't change the overall theme does it? Good teams who consistently win, have good pitching. Pitching costs money...the good teams pay for it. The Sox continue to 'hope.'

Lip

You're beating a dead horse here, Lip. No one on this board disagrees that it would be nice to have a 200 million dollar payroll and sign Colon and Mussina instead of Schoeneweis and Wright.

jlh0023
04-10-2004, 01:52 PM
I just don't want to bring Rauch up, and raise everybody's expectations AGAIN, just for him to suck up the place for a third time. Sometimes I think that the guys that face Rauch in spring training and in the minors intentionally do bad, so that Rauch looks incredible....comes up....and screws us again, if it comes to counting on Rauch to secure our pitching staff, that is not a good sign.

rahulsekhar
04-10-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

Bottom line, their penny pinching ways on pitching have done nothing. That philosophy is a dismal failure...why can't they realize this and change their ways.

and with respect to Bob, you can nit pick over my use of the Cubs but that doesn't change the overall theme does it? Good teams who consistently win, have good pitching. Pitching costs money...the good teams pay for it. The Sox continue to 'hope.'

Lip

While I too would like to see them go buy pitching, it's actually not that common for top teams, most develop from within. Examples from good pitching and generally successful teams:

Marlins: Beckett, Willis, Pavano, Redman (last year), Penny all acquired via draft or trade (or cheap signing)
Giants: Rueter, Hermanson, Tomko, Williams, Franklin
Cubs: Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Clement
Philadelphia: Milton, Padilla, Myers, Wolf, Millwood
Seattle: Moyer, Pinieiro, Franklin, Meche, Garcia
Oakland: Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Redman

Pitching is indeed key, but the ability to develop it is what sets the good teams apart (excepting Yanks, BoSox who can go buy what they need).


Sox aren't hoping any more than the rest of them, but they hvent had the guys develop. Thats the problem they need to focus on.

Lip Man 1
04-10-2004, 11:16 PM
Rahul:

You make some good points however , let's wait a bit before we start lumping such possible 'one year wonders' as the Marlins and Phils (who haven't won a damn thing yet) with teams like the Yankees, Braves, A's or Mariners.

You don't win your division 12 straight years or take what six World Series appearances in the past ten years with kids do you?

As much success as the A's and Mariners (add Houston with Oswalt, Miller, Redding, Robertson) have had they haven't won any World series yet either.

Lip

gosox41
04-11-2004, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
While I too would like to see them go buy pitching, it's actually not that common for top teams, most develop from within. Examples from good pitching and generally successful teams:

Marlins: Beckett, Willis, Pavano, Redman (last year), Penny all acquired via draft or trade (or cheap signing)
Giants: Rueter, Hermanson, Tomko, Williams, Franklin
Cubs: Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Clement
Philadelphia: Milton, Padilla, Myers, Wolf, Millwood
Seattle: Moyer, Pinieiro, Franklin, Meche, Garcia
Oakland: Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Redman

Pitching is indeed key, but the ability to develop it is what sets the good teams apart (excepting Yanks, BoSox who can go buy what they need).


Sox aren't hoping any more than the rest of them, but they hvent had the guys develop. Thats the problem they need to focus on.

We all know the A's are lucky that they have those big 3.


Bob

joecrede
04-14-2004, 11:51 PM
Today's southtown had a note saying the MRI on Honel's elbow showed no damage.