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View Full Version : Crede: Ventura-esque?


scottyl
04-08-2004, 11:31 PM
What do you think? Is Joe Crede, Robin Ventura-esque? Maybe not now, but in the future? He certainly has been throwing some leather.

SoxxoS
04-08-2004, 11:41 PM
If you mean he is going to be good, get to his contract year, and bolt...then yes, he will be just like Robin.

Bisco Stu
04-08-2004, 11:45 PM
If you mean painfully slow starts...yes.

Jerko
04-09-2004, 12:17 AM
Oh, I thought he meant Jesse Ventura. Sorry.

guillen4life13
04-09-2004, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
If you mean he is going to be good, get to his contract year, and bolt...then yes, he will be just like Robin.

I think that Robin leaving had more to do with him being disillusioned with the organization and the White Flag trade. He was injured for most of that year, and around when he came back they pulled that trade right in the middle of the stretch. I'd have left also were I in his shoes.

mweflen
04-09-2004, 12:51 AM
Crede definitely save Schoney's butt today with his glove.

Now if he can just record an 'uncontested' hit...

Baby Fisk
04-09-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
If you mean he is going to be good, get to his contract year, and bolt...then yes, he will be just like Robin.

Ha, I was thinking that too!

poorme
04-09-2004, 12:49 PM
maybe in the field. i don't think Crede will ever develop discipline at the plate. he's a nice player, but when you look at the greatest thirdbasemen ever, there aren't that many better than Ventura.

thecell
04-09-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by poorme
but when you look at the greatest thirdbasemen ever, there aren't that many better than Ventura.

In the history of the Sox or the game?

poorme
04-09-2004, 01:24 PM
ever in the game.

TaylorStSox
04-09-2004, 02:11 PM
I think people have some revisionist history about Ventura. Some people make him out to be great. He was a good ball player but I have higher expectations for Crede. I'd rather see him be the next Eric Chavez.

poorme
04-09-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I think people have some revisionist history about Ventura. Some people make him out to be great. He was a good ball player but I have higher expectations for Crede. I'd rather see him be the next Eric Chavez.

Thus far, Chavez pretty much IS Ventura. A little more power, a little less OBP.

I challenge you to name, off the top of your head, 10 thirdbasemen in history who have had better careers than Ventura.

TaylorStSox
04-09-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Thus far, Chavez pretty much IS Ventura. A little more power, a little less OBP.

I challenge you to name, off the top of your head, 10 thirdbasemen in history who have had better careers than Ventura.

I'm off to work in a couple minutes. It'll give me something to think about while I'm there. :)

guillen4life13
04-09-2004, 03:35 PM
George Brett
Mike Schmidt
Bobby Bonilla
Matt Williams
Ron Santo (sorry but you have to admit it)
Chipper Jones
Wade Boggs
Tony Fernandez
Ken Caminiti
Edgar Martinez (who was a third baseman)
Scott Rolen (so far)


I think that people with more knowledge could go further than me, but these are/were all 3rd basemen, and I think each could have an argument of being better than Ventura. Not saying Ventura is/was bad, but I'm saying he wasn't a top ten ever third baseman.

SoxBoy14
04-09-2004, 03:40 PM
Crede is better than Herbert Perry for sure and if he gets his swing going I think he'll be better than Ventura.

poorme
04-09-2004, 03:46 PM
How about we limit the discussion to those that played the majority of their careers at 3B?

yes:
George Brett
Mike Schmidt
Ron Santo
Wade Boggs

also i'll give you eddie matthews and brooks robinson


Bobby Bonilla: no. butcher fielder, only half his career at 3B, not much better of a hitter

Matt Williams: debatable, about the same

Chipper Jones: only 7 years at 3B, butcher, but better during those years

Tony Fernandez: you're kidding, right?

Ken Caminiti:similar, but shorter, steroid aided career.

Edgar Martinez: only a full time 3B 2 years

Scott Rolen: perhaps, but not yet.

Brian26
04-09-2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
George Brett
Mike Schmidt
Bobby Bonilla
Matt Williams
Ron Santo (sorry but you have to admit it)
Chipper Jones
Wade Boggs
Tony Fernandez
Ken Caminiti
Edgar Martinez (who was a third baseman)
Scott Rolen (so far)

Tony Fernandez? C'mon. He was mostly a shortstop anyway. Caminiti was a bum. Bonilla was a leftfielder...he was a butcher when he did play thirdbase. I agree with you on the obvious choices of Brett, Boggs, Schmidt and Edgar.

TaylorStSox
04-09-2004, 08:09 PM
Ripken
Robinson
Brett
Santo
Matthews
Jones (Chipper)
Rolen
Chavez
Williams
Boggs
Schmidt
Caminiti*


Ventura was one of the best 3rd baseman I've ever seen. However, his offense was overated IMO.

poorme
04-09-2004, 09:00 PM
Ok. You win. Silly me.

Frank the Tank
04-09-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by poorme
maybe in the field. i don't think Crede will ever develop discipline at the plate. he's a nice player, but when you look at the greatest thirdbasemen ever, there aren't that many better than Ventura.

Ventura was a good third baseman, but I'm not sure he will even make it into the hall of fame.

Daver
04-09-2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Ventura was a good third baseman, but I'm not sure he will even make it into the hall of fame.

If Robin makes it into the HOF while Harold Baines is still on the outside looking in it will only add to the scorn that I have for the HOF.

The baseball HOF is selected by a drinking club of bitter old men that have their fondest memories of the game as it was played pre WWII.

WinningUgly!
04-09-2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Ventura was a good third baseman, but I'm not sure he will even make it into the hall of fame.

Not a chance.

HaroMaster87
04-10-2004, 06:13 AM
Ventura, DEFENSIVELY, is ONE of the best ever....hitting wise....hmmmmm, I go back and forth on this one. He did hit 2 grand slams in 1 game.....And I was watching that game. I'll never foget that one. It was against Texas.

Caminiti...lol, RIGHT
Chavez...get back to me in 10 years
Rolen...not as good defensively (you could NOT bunt against Ventura)
Fernandez....now THATS funny...
Martinez...you mean he wasn't ALWAYS a DH??????
Bonilla...Wow....I'm speechless

But getting back to the title of this thread, he does remind me ALOT of Ventura DEFINSIVLEY. He is so solid at 3rd. He sucks up everything...but offensively, uhhhhhh...NO.

Realist
04-10-2004, 08:25 AM
Both Ventura and Crede are streaky as all get out at the plate and both throw some serious leather. Crede has impressed the hell outta me in the field so far and when he's seeing the ball well, he's a total stud at the plate. I seem to remember Ventura the same way.

I think they have much more in common than diferences.

(but hot damn! Sweet Swingin' Robin Ventura sure does have a mighty purty swing)

owensmouth
04-10-2004, 08:40 AM
It's a bit early to try and compare Crede to Ventura. At this point in his career, there were some serious questions about Robin. He started out slowly and had troubles trying to incorporate the Charlie Lau hitting system. He had been an excellent hitter in college but struggled in the big leagues.

In other words, give Crede a couple more years.

Tragg
04-10-2004, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
George Brett
Mike Schmidt
Bobby Bonilla
Matt Williams
Ron Santo (sorry but you have to admit it)
Chipper Jones
Wade Boggs
Tony Fernandez
Ken Caminiti
Edgar Martinez (who was a third baseman)
Scott Rolen (so far)


I think that people with more knowledge could go further than me, but these are/were all 3rd basemen, and I think each could have an argument of being better than Ventura. Not saying Ventura is/was bad, but I'm saying he wasn't a top ten ever third baseman.

I agree he wasn't top 10 but:

Ken Caminiti?? LOL

Add Graig Nettles

Add Bill Madlock

Add Dick Allen

Gary Gaetti probably was Ventura's offensive equal