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View Full Version : Charles Comiskey statue to be unveiled April 22nd


roofshot87
04-07-2004, 06:41 PM
White Sox press release:

http://http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_press_release.jsp?ymd=20040407&content_id=696271&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp


It will be next to the Fan Deck; I think it's admirable that the Sox are acknowledging their history more, however, they are honoring a man who was hardly kind to his players and those he dealt during his tenure.

Greg1983
04-07-2004, 07:02 PM
I agree that Charles Comiskey was a dirty rat, and I personally blame him above nearly everyone else for the Black Sox scandal and the ensuing shame brought to the franchise.

But, I believe the Comiskey family also owned the team through most of their Go-Go glory years, when they truly were one of the best organizations in baseball. (Granted, only one pennant to show for it, but oh man, the stories my dad used to tell me about Sox baseball in the 50's and early 60's...)

Since it wouldn't be practical to build a statue of every Comiskey who was ever affiliated with the team, and since the Old Roman is the patriarch and most identifiable member of the family, I think this statue is probably the right thing to do.

NOW...when the heck will they finally make a statue of Nellie Fox and Louis Aparaicio turning a DP together? THAT would be awesome.

HomeFish
04-07-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Greg1983

NOW...when the heck will they finally make a statue of Nellie Fox and Louis Aparaicio turning a DP together? THAT would be awesome.

I can't think of a more appropriate scene. Perhaps we could put in a triangle of statues by the fan deck....Comiskey, the DP scene, and, of course, the scene that exemplifies Chicago baseball more than anything, Bob Howry striking out Sammy Sosa.

npdempse
04-07-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Greg1983

But, I believe the Comiskey family also owned the team through most of their Go-Go glory years, when they truly were one of the best organizations in baseball. (Granted, only one pennant to show for it, but oh man, the stories my dad used to tell me about Sox baseball in the 50's and early 60's...)


Nope; Veeck & Co. bought out the family in 1958.

Comiskey WAS the force behind AL ball in Chicago, and a major force in baseball history in general, as a player and player manager prior to being an owner. He was an ass to his players, but those were some excellent teams until the Black Sox fallout decimated them.

I have no problem with a name change to the park, but I also see nothing wrong with honoring his place in White Sox history. They should have busts or plaques or something substantial to honor the players who've contributed to that history as well.

SoxBoy14
04-07-2004, 08:22 PM
I think they should honor a lot of the guys from the '59 team. Also do more to commemorate Bill Veeck.

ShoelessFred
04-07-2004, 08:38 PM
:comiskey

"i knew jerry liked me. we think alike!!"

batmanZoSo
04-07-2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Greg1983
I agree that Charles Comiskey was a dirty rat, and I personally blame him above nearly everyone else for the Black Sox scandal and the ensuing shame brought to the franchise.

But, I believe the Comiskey family also owned the team through most of their Go-Go glory years, when they truly were one of the best organizations in baseball. (Granted, only one pennant to show for it, but oh man, the stories my dad used to tell me about Sox baseball in the 50's and early 60's...)

Since it wouldn't be practical to build a statue of every Comiskey who was ever affiliated with the team, and since the Old Roman is the patriarch and most identifiable member of the family, I think this statue is probably the right thing to do.

NOW...when the heck will they finally make a statue of Nellie Fox and Louis Aparaicio turning a DP together? THAT would be awesome.

I don't agree that he was a dirty rat...I think the movies don't do him any justice.

Great idea with the statue....I could see Aparicio flippin it to Fox in my head. It would be great to see more history around the park. That wallpaper around the concourse doesn't really do it.

Daver
04-07-2004, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I don't agree that he was a dirty rat...I think the movies don't do him any justice.



I highly suggest you study the history of the White Sox.

Comparing Charles Comiskey to a rat is insulting the rat.

Railsplitter
04-07-2004, 10:19 PM
Put up a statue to Veeck? Why? Bill Veeck was a poser, a guy from a privliged background who wore sports shirts instead of dress shirts. After the 1959 season, Veeck traded away prospects like Norm Cash and Johnny Callison for veterans old enough to run in 1960 Presidential election. The gutting of the minor league system under Veeck reached it's climax with the 106 loss season in 1970. The only reason Veeck "saved" the Sox after the 1975 season is the fact John Allyn would only sell the team to somebody who would keep the Sox in Chicago. Veeck changed managers almost as often as Steinbrenner did in the late 70's, and of course gave the Sox their ultimate post Black Sox disgrace:
Disco Demolition Night.

Viva Magglio
04-07-2004, 10:28 PM
There is still debate on whether Charles Comiskey was the cheapskate that he was made to be in later years. Some believe his benching of Ed Cicotte at 29 wins to prevent him from getting a bonus for winning 30 is urban legend and that the benching was for other reasons. Also, the salaries he paid the White Sox players during his era was on par with the league average his supporters claim.

As for the idea of a Fox-Aparacio statue, I think the White Sox ought to do something similar to how the Cardinals honor their greats. If you've visited Busch Stadium in recent years, you have seen a series of small statues along the Walnut Street side of Busch of Bob Gibson, Stan Musial, Jack Buck, Lou Brock, Red Schoendienst, Dizzy Dean, Rogers Hornsby, St. Louis Browns great George Sisler, Negro League great James "Cool Papa" Bell, and Ozzie Smith. We should do something like that on either the Gate 3 or Gate 5 sides of USCF.

jortafan
04-07-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
Nope; Veeck & Co. bought out the family in 1958.


Actually, Veeck bought out Chuck Comiskey's sister prior to the 1959 season. The team was entirely Comiskey-owned up to that point, and Chuck didn't sell out his minority share until AFTER Veeck left in 1961.

So yeah, the Comiskey family was on hand for much of the Go-Go era, and was completely in charge for the first half of it.

And insofar as the Old Roman himself is concerned, I still say that he founded the team, ran it for nearly 30 years, and put together four of the five American League championships the White Sox have ever won. Give the guy a break. He deserves some remembrance.

Frank the Tank
04-07-2004, 10:32 PM
I hope the statue of Charles Comiskey isn't Phase V of the renovations!

batmanZoSo
04-07-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I highly suggest you study the history of the White Sox.

Comparing Charles Comiskey to a rat is insulting the rat.

I've heard conflicting accounts on Comiskey. He must've done some good. And I'm not a Sox history buff nor did I claim to be. Eight Men Out had an agenda to make the players tragic heroes and Comiskey the villain, and that's where a lot of people got their impression and information about him and the incident.

jortafan
04-07-2004, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Greg1983
NOW...when the heck will they finally make a statue of Nellie Fox and Louis Aparaicio turning a DP together? THAT would be awesome.

A great idea!

In fact, I'd like to suggest they erect the two statues on the approximate spots where the middle infield once existed -- what is now the parking lot where Comiskey Park (the real one) stood.

The only problem is that we'd have some drunk ram them with his car when he was trying to get out of the lot after the game.

hsnterprize
04-07-2004, 11:05 PM
If the Sox really want to get into this statue thing, then give this idea consideration. Do any of you remember the first renderings of the new"grand entrance" outside home plate ? Well, why not build that entrance, and put statues of the players whose numbers were retired? There could be 7 nice statues outside the home plate entrance to show eveyone passing by the Sox are remembering their past heroes.

Brian26
04-08-2004, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Railsplitter
Put up a statue to Veeck? Why? Bill Veeck was a poser, a guy from a privliged background who wore sports shirts instead of dress shirts. After the 1959 season, Veeck traded away prospects like Norm Cash and Johnny Callison for veterans old enough to run in 1960 Presidential election. The gutting of the minor league system under Veeck reached it's climax with the 106 loss season in 1970. The only reason Veeck "saved" the Sox after the 1975 season is the fact John Allyn would only sell the team to somebody who would keep the Sox in Chicago. Veeck changed managers almost as often as Steinbrenner did in the late 70's, and of course gave the Sox their ultimate post Black Sox disgrace:
Disco Demolition Night.

This could be a debate unto itself. Your points are valid to an extent. One thing to keep in mind- Veeck really completed inherited the 1959 team that won the AL Pennant. That team was in place before he ever got there. However, I don't think anything Veeck did before he left in '61 would carry 10 years down the line. The Allyn's had something to do with the minor league system by the time 1970 came around. You should read "Veeck As In Wreck" if you ever get a chance. It's a great book. You can't read the book and not respect Veeck as a baseball man. I'm not a big fan of the late 70's carnival stuff he tried to pull, but Disco Demolition night wasn't his fault- that's a really tough call. Mike Veeck is responsible for that one.

JC456
04-08-2004, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Greg1983
I agree that Charles Comiskey was a dirty rat, and I personally blame him above nearly everyone else for the Black Sox scandal and the ensuing shame brought to the franchise.

But, I believe the Comiskey family also owned the team through most of their Go-Go glory years, when they truly were one of the best organizations in baseball. (Granted, only one pennant to show for it, but oh man, the stories my dad used to tell me about Sox baseball in the 50's and early 60's...)

Since it wouldn't be practical to build a statue of every Comiskey who was ever affiliated with the team, and since the Old Roman is the patriarch and most identifiable member of the family, I think this statue is probably the right thing to do.

NOW...when the heck will they finally make a statue of Nellie Fox and Louis Aparaicio turning a DP together? THAT would be awesome.

How about one of Shoeless Joe to show some honor to the man who got screwed by BASEBALL!!!!!!!!!!!

mweflen
04-08-2004, 04:10 AM
Does the Charles Comiskey statue depict him making his players pay to launder their own uniforms in 1919?

Or how about denying their playoff bonuses?

'cause that would be a neat "Action Pose."

SSN721
04-08-2004, 08:59 AM
Despite the continued debates over the veracity or Comiskeys cheapness to his players (which I think he was pretty much a cheapskate jerk), he pretty much founded the American League and was a decent player in his day and he moved the team we love from the frozen tundras of the North to our beloved hometown. DOnt mean to wax poetic about it I just think he serves an important place in White Sox history and whether you hate him or not I think it needs to be recognized. But I would love to see a whole series of statues honoring the long history of the team. You could probably make up at least 10-15 just from the 1900-1920 era. Management should really come up with a way to make that happen.

tebman
04-08-2004, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
Despite the continued debates over the veracity or Comiskeys cheapness to his players (which I think he was pretty much a cheapskate jerk), he pretty much founded the American League and was a decent player in his day and he moved the team we love from the frozen tundras of the North to our beloved hometown. DOnt mean to wax poetic about it I just think he serves an important place in White Sox history and whether you hate him or not I think it needs to be recognized. But I would love to see a whole series of statues honoring the long history of the team. You could probably make up at least 10-15 just from the 1900-1920 era. Management should really come up with a way to make that happen.

The Comiskey statue is a nice idea, but I hope it doesn't make
him out to be a heroic figure, because he wasn't. But he was
the founder of the team and deserves recognition.

I think that instead of a collection of statues of great Sox players,
there should be a long row of plaques and photographs along
the concourse showing the team's history. For better or worse,
the Sox have a colorful history and not enough people know it.

- tebman

MarqSox
04-08-2004, 12:26 PM
What I'm more interested in is whether the retired numbers will ever be displayed again? They came down from the club level facade in 2002, and from all the renovation photos I've seen, they're not back up yet. I'd love to see them back on the wall on Tuesday, but that seems too logical for the Sox.

Seriously, why retire numbers if you're going to keep them secret?

CubKilla
04-08-2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by tebman
The Comiskey statue is a nice idea, but I hope it doesn't make
him out to be a heroic figure, because he wasn't. But he was
the founder of the team and deserves recognition.

I think that instead of a collection of statues of great Sox players,
there should be a long row of plaques and photographs along
the concourse showing the team's history. For better or worse,
the Sox have a colorful history and not enough people know it.

- tebman

This is only being done after JR promised one of Comiskey's daughters (?), who happens to be either a State Rep or State Senator, that he would memorialize Charles Comiskey after he sold the naming rights to USCF.

After the naming rights sale, Comiskey's clan tried unsuccessfully to push through State legislation banning the sale of naming rights.

pinwheels3530
04-08-2004, 04:54 PM
Second vote for Shoeless Joe Statue!!

DrummerGeorgefan
04-08-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
As for the idea of a Fox-Aparacio statue, I think the White Sox ought to do something similar to how the Cardinals honor their greats. If you've visited Busch Stadium in recent years, you have seen a series of small statues along the Walnut Street side of Busch of Bob Gibson, Stan Musial, Jack Buck, Lou Brock, Red Schoendienst, Dizzy Dean, Rogers Hornsby, St. Louis Browns great George Sisler, Negro League great James "Cool Papa" Bell, and Ozzie Smith. We should do something like that on either the Gate 3 or Gate 5 sides of USCF.

How cool would it be if they did something like this, but on the footprint of the old park. Fill it in with grass and dirt and put the players from the all century team or whatver in the positions they played. For example, you could have the Fox-Aparicio statute at second, have one of Fisk in his classic "facemask on the top of head-hands on hips-barking out orders" pose and others like that.

soxnut
04-08-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
What I'm more interested in is whether the retired numbers will ever be displayed again? They came down from the club level facade in 2002, and from all the renovation photos I've seen, they're not back up yet. I'd love to see them back on the wall on Tuesday, but that seems too logical for the Sox.

Seriously, why retire numbers if you're going to keep them secret?


As I shall repeat this again..........In an email I received from Rob Gallas, they are considering putting up the numbers in a decoration on the outfield wall..........

TornLabrum
04-08-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
There is still debate on whether Charles Comiskey was the cheapskate that he was made to be in later years. Some believe his benching of Ed Cicotte at 29 wins to prevent him from getting a bonus for winning 30 is urban legend and that the benching was for other reasons. Also, the salaries he paid the White Sox players during his era was on par with the league average his supporters claim.

Cicotte, according to Rich Lindberg was benched one start by Gleason to set up his World Series rotation. Earlier in September he himself took a few days off to go to Michigan. The entire story is a lot of bullfeathers.

TornLabrum
04-08-2004, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
Does the Charles Comiskey statue depict him making his players pay to launder their own uniforms in 1919?

Or how about denying their playoff bonuses?

'cause that would be a neat "Action Pose."

Another thing Lindberg points out was that several owners (such as Clark Griffith) also made their players pay for laundering their uniforms. The practice went back to the 19th century when Comiskey was a player. I think I read somewhere that that ran up to a grand total of 50 cents per day. Most of these guys were making several times more in six months than the average guy earned in a year, and many owners operated under the philosophy that a player was responsible for their own equipment. Some figured that included uniforms, not just gloves and shoes.

iwannago
04-08-2004, 08:22 PM
I think a Sadam statue is appropriate also, didn't you see Eight Men Out?

RKMeibalane
04-08-2004, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I highly suggest you study the history of the White Sox.

Comparing Charles Comiskey to a rat is insulting the rat.

Is it anything like the time I inadvertently insulted your pet Tyranosaurus Rex by comparing him to Jerry Manuel? You may remember that last season, I said Manuel had an IQ eqivalent to that of a dinosaur, and you considered that an insult to your pet.

:)

Daver
04-08-2004, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
I think a Sadam statue is appropriate also, didn't you see Eight Men Out?


If you are basing your opinion of Sox history on the movie Eight Men Out,then you need to study your history as well,the Book that the movie was based on isn't accurate,and from what I hear the movie is even more innacurate.

iwannago
04-08-2004, 08:50 PM
Daver:

That just gives you a taste of how he was. I would never use a movie as my total basis.

MarqSox
04-08-2004, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
As I shall repeat this again..........In an email I received from Rob Gallas, they are considering putting up the numbers in a decoration on the outfield wall..........
How long does it take to "consider" that? It doesn't seem like something they need to do a longterm study on. Just do it or don't do it.