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View Full Version : Is today a "must-win?"


Hokiesox
04-07-2004, 07:26 AM
With the Twins already a game and a half up, and the royals potentially two games up (as well as the Twins) with a Sox loss, is this game a must win to keep some kind of confidence?

Further, is it a must win to keep the media from writing the Sox off completely?

voodoochile
04-07-2004, 07:28 AM
*****! This isn't football and bluntly speaking, if the Sox are in contention in July and after, the media coverage will be just fine as it was last year late in the season.

hsnterprize
04-07-2004, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
*****! This isn't football and bluntly speaking, if the Sox are in contention in July and after, the media coverage will be just fine as it was last year late in the season. I'll tell ya', Voodoo...the reaction here in town to the Sox loss was strong, swift, and merciless. Cubs fans really were raking in the laughs with this loss and their team's win. You wouldn't have wanted to listen to local sports radio...all the Cubs fans on the air sounded so positive and happy while they also ripped any Sox fan who had the guts to try and fight back.

I was listening to "Mac, Jurko, and Harry" (The afternoon trio on ESPN Radio 1000 here in Chicago for those of you who don't know) yesterday, and there was tons of Sox bashing. And to make things worse, Cubs fans even e-mailed and bashed Dave Wills for his reaction to the opening day loss and being a "south-side homer".

Boy...all those "north side homers" really have their act together, don't they? Nothing like some good ol' fashioned Cubbie butt-kissing, eh? We'll see what happens in October.

voodoochile
04-07-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
I'll tell ya', Voodoo...the reaction here in town to the Sox loss was strong, swift, and merciless. Cubs fans really were raking in the laughs with this loss and their team's win. You wouldn't have wanted to listen to local sports radio...all the Cubs fans on the air sounded so positive and happy while they also ripped any Sox fan who had the guts to try and fight back.

I was listening to "Mac, Jurko, and Harry" (The afternoon trio on ESPN Radio 1000 here in Chicago for those of you who don't know) yesterday, and there was tons of Sox bashing. And to make things worse, Cubs fans even e-mailed and bashed Dave Wills for his reaction to the opening day loss and being a "south-side homer".

Boy...all those "north side homers" really have their act together, don't they? Nothing like some good ol' fashioned Cubbie butt-kissing, eh? We'll see what happens in October.

Flubbie fans were reveling in our pain? Say it ain't so, Joe...

I thought only Sox fans were concerned with the rivalry...

Honestly though, of course that was the case, the Sox blew a 4-run lead in the ninth on opening day, which as I have been informed was the only time it has happened in 103 years.

The Sox DESERVE some lumps for that one. I wish it were otherwise, but the way to fix the problem is to win. You won't change it by complaining about it.

Baby Fisk
04-07-2004, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
is this game a must win to keep some kind of confidence?

Further, is it a must win to keep the media from writing the Sox off completely?

No. It is only a must-win for the sake of some people's mental health and/or imperilled long-term sobriety.

:angry: :gulp:

jabrch
04-07-2004, 08:09 AM
There is no such thing as a "must win" in April. This is game 2 of 162. It is probably most important to Koch/Marte that they don't lose confidence and to Ozzie that he get the media/fans off his back.

wdelaney72
04-07-2004, 08:13 AM
I'm so tired of hearing the whining about the media bias in Chicago. Yes, the media favors the Cub. Normally, it's unfair and unfounded. But not this year.

I dislike the Cubs as much as any other Sox fan, but let's look at the facts. The Cubs were one game away from the World Series last year. In the off-season, they took steps to improve their time.

The Sox
a) Sucked last year. I don't care what the record was or how they were in the race in September. They completely crapped down their leg when it counted. In my world, 2nd and 3rd place sucks.

b) Lost key players. Colon, Gordon, Graff are all gone with no one of equal value to take their place.

c) Crapped down their leg on opening day. Yes, it may have only been the fault of two guys (Guillen and Marte), but a loss is a loss. What really hurts is we spend 5 years watching Jerry Manual make inconsistent, contradictory, and stupid decisions with the pitching staff. Yesterday Ozzie did picked up right where Jerry left off.

The Cubs should be getting the bulk of the media attention. They're a good team - that pains the hell our of me. The Sox look very average and beatable.

Until the Sox act like a first class organization, they should be treated like ugly step-child.

Yes, I think today is a must win. But the question is, who is it a must win for? The answer is, Sox management. It's a long season at were at the starting line, but Ozzie said it himself. These games count just the same as the games in September. If the Sox start off like crap again, they'll be a lot of empty blue seats admiring the upper deck renovation.

Dadawg_77
04-07-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
I'll tell ya', Voodoo...the reaction here in town to the Sox loss was strong, swift, and merciless. Cubs fans really were raking in the laughs with this loss and their team's win. You wouldn't have wanted to listen to local sports radio...all the Cubs fans on the air sounded so positive and happy while they also ripped any Sox fan who had the guts to try and fight back.

I was listening to "Mac, Jurko, and Harry" (The afternoon trio on ESPN Radio 1000 here in Chicago for those of you who don't know) yesterday, and there was tons of Sox bashing. And to make things worse, Cubs fans even e-mailed and bashed Dave Wills for his reaction to the opening day loss and being a "south-side homer".

Boy...all those "north side homers" really have their act together, don't they? Nothing like some good ol' fashioned Cubbie butt-kissing, eh? We'll see what happens in October.

Hey if Cubbie fan starts to pop off about opening day, just hold up your hand with your fingers extended. Starting counting to five and ask them if that number means anything. You cause them enough mental pain, they will shrink away.

Dan H
04-07-2004, 09:15 AM
It is because Kansas City is a division rival. The Sox have to beat up on the teams in their division because they are going to have it riough against the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc. Losing two games won't kill them, but if they dominate their own division, the Cubs will be the only Chicago playoff team.

doublem23
04-07-2004, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Hey if Cubbie fan starts to pop off about opening day, just hold up your hand with your fingers extended. Starting counting to five and ask them if that number means anything. You cause them enough mental pain, they will shrink away.

I agree. I think a nice Easter present for them is their own, "Steve Bartman" signed baseball.

white sox bill
04-07-2004, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Flubbie fans were reveling in our pain? Say it ain't so, Joe...

I thought only Sox fans were concerned with the rivalry...

Honestly though, of course that was the case, the Sox blew a 4-run lead in the ninth on opening day, which as I have been informed was the only time it has happened in 103 years.

The Sox DESERVE some lumps for that one. I wish it were otherwise, but the way to fix the problem is to win. You won't change it by complaining about it.

You know I'm kinda bugged by all these frikin' stats. I mean is there somebody out there that actually decided one day to start plugging in and researching all those thousands of games? Doesn't he have anything better to do?

The next meaningless stat will something like:

"The Sox hit West Coast teams better who have a starting pitcher whose middle name falls in the R-T range and the games start AFTER 8PM central and the weather is below 83 degrees with attendance between 21,000 and 24,000" :?:

Jerko
04-07-2004, 09:48 AM
Why can't every game be a must win? So what's today, an "I hope we don't lose", or "it's ok if we win but not really"? No, game damn 2 is not must win, but the more you win now, the less "must wins" you'll have later, and with the way this team has shriveled into uselessness every time they've been under pressure the past few years, the less must win games in August and September, the better.

poorme
04-07-2004, 09:52 AM
I think it's more important that we come out firing and play aggressively.

Fungo
04-07-2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Why can't every game be a must win? So what's today, an "I hope we don't lose", or "it's ok if we win but not really"? No, game damn 2 is not must win, but the more you win now, the less "must wins" you'll have later, and with the way this team has shriveled into uselessness every time they've been under pressure the past few years, the less must win games in August and September, the better. Agreed. Since the 2nd half of the 2000 season, this team hasn't performed well when there were expectations. "If" we loose the division by a game and begin looking for games that got away, look no further than the season opener.


Originally posted by poorme
I think it's more important that we come out firing and play aggressively. IMO, I think it is more important to win the game. Coming out firing and playing aggressive are important, but we need a win to help set the tone for the rest of the year.

batmanZoSo
04-07-2004, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You won't change it by complaining about it.

On to plan B then people...

surfdudes
04-07-2004, 10:43 AM
Please.........

jabrch
04-07-2004, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Why can't every game be a must win? So what's today, an "I hope we don't lose", or "it's ok if we win but not really"? No, game damn 2 is not must win, but the more you win now, the less "must wins" you'll have later, and with the way this team has shriveled into uselessness every time they've been under pressure the past few years, the less must win games in August and September, the better.

By definition, every game isn't a MUST win. A must win implies dire consequences if you don't win it. Don't think for a second the guys in the clubhouse aren't trying to win every game, or that Ozzie and KW don't want to win every game. But when fans and media talk about a must win game, that has a non-literal meaning to it. Implicit in that is that some losses hurt more than others and some wins are better than others.

batmanZoSo
04-07-2004, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
By definition, every game isn't a MUST win. A must win implies dire consequences if you don't win it. Don't think for a second the guys in the clubhouse aren't trying to win every game, or that Ozzie and KW don't want to win every game. But when fans and media talk about a must win game, that has a non-literal meaning to it. Implicit in that is that some losses hurt more than others and some wins are better than others.

We could argue "must-win" forever.

You said it:

If the Sox face elimination from the playoff bracket with a loss...that's a must-win. In any other case, tomorrow's another day.

JohnJeter
04-07-2004, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
We could argue "must-win" forever.

You said it:

If the Sox face elimination from the playoff bracket with a loss...that's a must-win. In any other case, tomorrow's another day.

But by any means possible, you want to avoid the situation where you could face elimination from the playoff bracket with a loss, so the preceding game is a "must-win"- you don't want to put yourself into that situation. Actually the game preceding the game preceding the game is a "must-win" as you want to avoid going into a "must-win" game preceding the game where you could possibly face elimination. But really, the game preceding the game preceding the game preceding the "must-win" game is a critical "must-win" game as you . . . oh forget it.

SoxFan78
04-07-2004, 11:07 AM
"You Play. To Win. The Game"

-Herman Edwards

I think today is a must win game, just based on how they lost on Monday. We have to see how the sox will react after a terrible loss. Will they play inspired, or will they play lackluster? It would be one thing if the sox just got plain beat on Monday. Then ok, chalk it up and move on. But I think that the Royals didnt beat the sox, the sox beat themselves.

Boy do I love being a sox fan!

batmanZoSo
04-07-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by JohnJeter
. . . oh forget it.

Exactly. Like I said we could debate this forever. I get really bored arguing about semantics. Everyone wants to win today. Everyone wants to win tomorrow. If we win neither, we're still alive.

FoulTerritory
04-07-2004, 11:15 AM
Must win?

Just want to remind that we lost the first two games in 2000. And amazingly, ended up winning 95 and winning the division.

Fungo
04-07-2004, 11:18 AM
I'm not sure whether I'm in the minority or the majority on this argument, but I do feel we need to win today's game. A "must-win"? No, because like someone stated earlier, loosing will not eliminate us from anything, so "must-win" is a bit extreme. However, loosing today and not getting any sort of momentum going and looking at a 4 game series at New York, the first of which is their Home Opener, makes today's game, IMO, crucial. With NY looking to bounce back at home after a slow start against Tampa and the Sox still looking to answer some questions, make me believe we may be looking at the possibility of being swept or at best taking 1 of 4 in NY. Coming Home with the possibility of being either 1-6 or 0-7 and facing the Royals again doesn't sound too promising. Knowing Sox fans, even at the Home Opener, if we are 0-7, this team will get booed. Many here have stated it before the season began, how important it is for this team to get off to a good start. If the above scenario plays out, I don't care how "rah-rah" Ozzie is, doubt will be running through each and every player on the team and this team does not play well when trying to dig itself out of a hole. Our April schedule does not look favorable. Today's game is important.

Just my take.

batmanZoSo
04-07-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Fungo
I'm not sure whether I'm in the minority or the majority on this argument, but I do feel we need to win today's game. A "must-win"? No, because like someone stated earlier, loosing will not eliminate us from anything, so "must-win" is a bit extreme. However, loosing today and not getting any sort of momentum going and looking at a 4 game series at New York, the first of which is their Home Opener, makes today's game, IMO, crucial. With NY looking to bounce back at home after a slow start against Tampa and the Sox still looking to answer some questions, make me believe we may be looking at the possibility of being swept or at best taking 1 of 4 in NY. Coming Home with the possibility of being either 1-6 or 0-7 and facing the Royals again doesn't sound too promising. Knowing Sox fans, even at the Home Opener, if we are 0-7, this team will get booed. Many here have stated it before the season began, how important it is for this team to get off to a good start. If the above scenario plays out, I don't care how "rah-rah" Ozzie is, doubt will be running through each and every player on the team and this team does not play well when trying to dig itself out of a hole. Our April schedule does not look favorable. Today's game is important.

Just my take.

Today is a "let's-win" or "come-on-please-win."

It is important to get off to a good start, but the first few games can be erased quickly. I look at two week periods. You can't "expect" us to go into Comiskey with a .750 winning percentage. We're playing on the road like we always do to start off. It's possible and we hope for it, but as long as we're .500 on the road, we've established a pretty good home field adavantage the last few years so we'll be alright.

DrummerGeorgefan
04-07-2004, 11:38 AM
I second and third those of you that have posted that every game is a must win. If you've ever played competitive sports you'd know that. I never bought the play for the love of it crap.

Brian26
04-07-2004, 11:43 AM
Monday was a tough loss, but let's not lose sight of reality. Today is not a must win. Those three games last September in Minnesota were must-wins. Today is not a must-win.

Hokiesox
04-07-2004, 11:48 AM
I disagree that there's no such thing as must-win in April. We lost the division by 4 games last year. The first four games of the season (or was it just the 3 against the royals?)! They lost the division! no momentum coming out of that series, and the WS sucked until July. I'm not nuts, perhaps "must-win" is a hyperbole, but I aint nuts, and I don't think the sky is falling. I do not, though, want to repeat last year's feat. That's all.

JohnJeter
04-07-2004, 11:59 AM
Well, if the Sox lose today, then tomorrow is DEFINITELY a "must-win". If they lose tomorrow as well, we are REALLY talking a "must-win" on Friday.

I don't even want to think about what a "must-win" situation they'll be in on Saturday if they lose Friday as well.

Curiously, if they lose today, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, Sunday will no longer be a "must-win". I'm not sure why.

But that home opener will ABSOLUTELY be a "must-win.

How's that, batmanZoSo?

jackbrohamer
04-07-2004, 12:39 PM
This is a joke, right? Remember, Cleveland started out 11-1 in 2002 and wound up 74-88.

Of course, Jerry Manual didn't see games as "must win" if the Sox had assured that they "won" a series. Like in NY last September, he just threw the game away.

JohnJeter
04-07-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by jackbrohamer
This is a joke, right?

Well, I'm certainly treating it that way. . .

SpringfldFan
04-07-2004, 12:57 PM
Today is most definitely not a must win game. Neither are the next several. Mathematically, we won't have a must win until July at the earliest.

However...

I don't want September to arrive wit the Sox looking at 20 straight "real" must-wins.

gosox41
04-07-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Hokiesox
With the Twins already a game and a half up, and the royals potentially two games up (as well as the Twins) with a Sox loss, is this game a must win to keep some kind of confidence?

Further, is it a must win to keep the media from writing the Sox off completely?

I know its a long season and all that, but every game against a team in your division is a must win. These games in a way count as two in the standings. I'd rather get swept by hte Yankees and Red Sox if I knew this team was going to punt mInny and KC this season.


Bob

WhiteSox = Life
04-07-2004, 06:29 PM
If by must-win, it means it must feel pretty damn good to collect this win, then yeah, I'd agree.

Though it's true that every game against a divisional rival is a full game in the standings between them and the opposing team, the Sox will have plenty of more opportunities to royally beat KC black and blue over the course of the season. Not to mention crushing the Twins, slashing the Tigers, and hammering the Indians.

StillMissOzzie
04-08-2004, 02:41 AM
I don't think that it WAS a "must-win", but I think it was important not to have two consecutive bullpen collapse games in a row. Stuff like that would start eating away at their confidence way too early in the year.

SMO
:gulp: