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View Full Version : The real cause for concern


Yorke97
04-06-2004, 01:10 PM
Yesterday we witnessed a new begining for the Sox. Ozzie Guillen, the new manager, at times looking brilliant with hit and run, stolen bases and general baserunning. We saw a good start from ace Mark Beuhrle. We witnessed a team that after many years unresponsive hitting, that would respond to their opponents hitting instead of insisting that 4 or 5 runs is enough. All things said, yesterday was a good day minus that one inning. They will bounce back because their manager will demand it from them.

So with 161 games to go, things aren't going too bad. Or are they....

That fatal, forgettable ninth was more than just a good releif pitcher losing it, it was a whole bulpen losing it. And by IT I mean confidence. We saw three pitchers give up 6 runs, which of course, isn't good. But most importantly we saw the manager's confidence in his closer, Billy Koch. We saw Ozzie pull the only pitcher of the three who tallied an out facing only two batters. Ozzie's "closer" was given a vote of no confidence when being faced with a left handed hitter. Is this the attitude that a closer should have? That he can finsh things off, but only as long as the batter is a righty?

While the new manager has promoted an attitude of winning to his team, he has not promoted an attitude of closing with his closer. This needs to change, and quickly before a team like (gulp) Detroit starts to show us up.

CubKilla
04-06-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Yorke97
This needs to change, and quickly before a team like (gulp) Detroit starts to show us up.

Starts? Detroit practically owned us last season.

na_na_na_na
04-06-2004, 01:15 PM
I don't blame a guy for taking Marte against a lefty. They hit like .117 against him last year. Sick.

Dub25
04-06-2004, 01:20 PM
My concern is how Koch and Marte are going to respond. You have Koch, who last year I believe got a little pissy when Jerry started pulling him in favor of Marte, who may be wondering what the F after getting a guy out and then Marte's head might be messed up after getting nobody out and giving up 2 HR's. If Koch is your closer then stick with him until he screws up. Now we don't know if Koch still sucks because Ozzie pulled him so Damn fast.

Brian26
04-06-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Yorke97
This needs to change, and quickly before a team like (gulp) Detroit starts to show us up.

Urgency isn't an issue with Detroit - we don't play a game against them until the end of July. :D:

lowesox
04-06-2004, 01:22 PM
My concern is that a poor start killed us last year, and I'd hate for it to happen again. In fact, that reason alone is why I don't blame Guillen for 'overmanaging.'

We'd better win Wednesday.

Brian26
04-06-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
My concern is that a poor start killed us last year, and I'd hate for it to happen again. In fact, that reason alone is why I don't blame Guillen for 'overmanaging.'

We'd better win Wednesday.

Yeah, if we don't win on Wednesday...I'll never watch another White Sox game again!

Iguana775
04-06-2004, 01:32 PM
is it too soon for this...

:prozac

since people are already acting like this...

:chickenlittle

Yorke97
04-06-2004, 01:48 PM
They truly better win Wednesday. We showed them up for eight innings, and their pitching, dont get me started! How many are on the KC DL?

SoxxoS
04-06-2004, 02:05 PM
Let me ask you guys this...

If Koch continues not to get anyone out (as indicated by not only yesterday, but spring training and the whole 2003 season) what do we do with him?

I don't think he is good enough to pitch middle relief. I am serious. I am not saying cut him today, but if spring (and 2003) was any indication, he can't get anyone out. Where are we going to put him?

DSpivack
04-06-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Let me ask you guys this...

If Koch continues not to get anyone out (as indicated by not only yesterday, but spring training and the whole 2003 season) what do we do with him?

I don't think he is good enough to pitch middle relief. I am serious. I am not saying cut him today, but if spring (and 2003) was any indication, he can't get anyone out. Where are we going to put him?

True, but it wasn't Koch or Ozzie that really lost the game yesterday, it was more of a combination of Politte and Marte. Having a bad manager and a Botch are what we had last year; what really scares me is Politte and Marte failing us.

jabrch
04-06-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Let me ask you guys this...

If Koch continues not to get anyone out (as indicated by not only yesterday, but spring training and the whole 2003 season) what do we do with him?

I don't think he is good enough to pitch middle relief. I am serious. I am not saying cut him today, but if spring (and 2003) was any indication, he can't get anyone out. Where are we going to put him?

Soxxos - didn't Koch strike one guy out yesterday and give up a double on a very good pitch? Wasn't he being clocked in the mid-high 90s with good movement? I don't blame Koch much. Marte - yes. Politte - yes. Ozzie - a small bit. But Koch didn't have a chance. He got pulled after a great strikeout with a nasty slider.

SoxxoS
04-06-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Soxxos - didn't Koch strike one guy out yesterday and give up a double on a very good pitch? Wasn't he being clocked in the mid-high 90s with good movement? I don't blame Koch much. Marte - yes. Politte - yes. Ozzie - a small bit. But Koch didn't have a chance. He got pulled after a great strikeout with a nasty slider.

I wasn't impressed with Koch yesterday at all. That pitch he gave up the double on got a lot of the plate.

He pitched OK, and God knows I want to see him do well, but I just don't see it. He hasn't retired 3 in order in I don't know how long.

mweflen
04-06-2004, 05:36 PM
Koch looked good. He had both command and velocity. Santiago pulled a jam shot, plain and simple. He wasn't wild like Politte and he wasn't hanging like Marte.

Wanne
04-06-2004, 05:49 PM
The confidence is a little bit of a concern...but now I'm kinda confused as to who has what role. Is Marte your closer?...Pollite your setup man? What's Koch? I know the order KC had coming up dictated alot of that...but it seems to me it went a little backasswards. Are these guys (the pen) as confused as I am now? I'm to the point where I think the whole lefty vs lefty and righty vs righty has a tendency to make manager out think themselves too.

I really don't have a problem with how Oz handled it yesterday. Like everybody said...it's one friggin' game.

But on a sidenote today...Boston's bullpen today: 3 IP 0 Runs, 0 Hits (which included 1 Foulking inning).

batmanZoSo
04-06-2004, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Starts? Detroit practically owned us last season.

We were 10-9 vs. them last year. I doubt it will happen again.

TaylorStSox
04-06-2004, 07:26 PM
If that pitch that Koch threw got too much of the plate, then Santiago must have the shortest arms in baseball history. It was a good piece of hitting.

Face it. Marte threw the game yesterday. It happens.